Cork developments

snotboogie

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

does not matter if the pedestrianize or bot...the city is dead.

Who is going to go through town traffic, look for parking to walk around a city with countless closed up shops.....when they can go to blackpool or mahon get easy parking, have places argos, there are cinemas,decent restaurants etc

Bar pubs at night, I find there is nothing to go to the city centre for, unless avoiding junkies is your pastime

There isn't a single decent restaurant in Mahon. Blackpool has a few nice ones but to say you can't find anything in the city that you wouldn't in Mahon or Blackpool is ridiculous hyperbole.

Captainsatnav

snotboogie wrote: »

There isn't a single decent restaurant in Mahon. Blackpool has a few nice ones but to say you can't find anything in the city that you wouldn't in Mahon or Blackpool is ridiculous hyperbole.

The city centre could be a lot more attractive with competent forward thinking councillors I think is the OP's point, not disparaging Mahon/Blackpool.

Justin Credible Darts

snotboogie wrote: »

There isn't a single decent restaurant in Mahon. Blackpool has a few nice ones but to say you can't find anything in the city that you wouldn't in Mahon or Blackpool is ridiculous hyperbole.

You say my comment is ridiculous, enlighten me then Einstein of the things the city centre offer other than congested traffic, boarded up shops, junkies tapping everyone , out of tune buskers etc.


stand outside the old roches stores and look across the street where A-wear, quills , the savoy were ....all gone, debenhams bailing out, units all over the place boarded up.

wakka12

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

You say my comment is ridiculous, enlighten me then Einstein of the things the city centre offer other than congested traffic, boarded up shops, junkies tapping everyone , out of tune buskers etc.


stand outside the old roches stores and look across the street where A-wear, quills , the savoy were ....all gone, debenhams bailing out, units all over the place boarded up.

You have an oddly distorted view of Cork. I have only visited the place once as a tourist and I found it to be an amazingly vibrant city and I don't recall almost any borded up shops. Pedestrianising it would make it even nicer, one of the more enjoyable city trips I've had anywhere in Europe.

Justin Credible Darts

wakka12 wrote: »

You have an oddly distorted view of Cork. I have only visited the place once as a tourist and I found it to be an amazingly vibrant city and I don't recall almost any borded up shops. Pedestrianising it would make it even nicer, one of the more enjoyable city trips I've had anywhere in Europe.

How is posting facts a distorted view ?
I live in cork, I see the shops closed, empty or boarded up.
Just because you visited and did not see them does not mean they are not there.



I suggest you read my posts, as I said earlier, the town is great at night for pubs etc, but as a shopping zone to attract people in cars, its simply not worth it.


Maybe take a walk down Partrick street again with your tinted glasses off next time.

rebs23

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

a shopping zone to attract people in cars, its simply not worth it.

The days of City Centres as shopping zones to attract people in cars is over. Thankfully Cork City Centre is better positioned than others to take advantage of the upcoming transition as there are a large number of cultural attractions, a vibrant cafe and food scene, a number of 3rd level colleges, a walkable city centre experience and a centre that is at the core of so much with a large enough population within a 30 minute cycle, bus commute or rail commute.
The frustration is that we have all this at our doorstep ready for the transformation and some of our leaders in positions of decision making just won't take the leap. it is changing though and the leadership to pedestrianise the Marina is a start, close Patrick St to cars at certain times, etc. Now we just need to get the trucks out of the city centre and open the city centre even more to cyclists, pedestrians and public transport. That change simply has to happen and when you hear organisations like Cork Chamber calling for it the debate is well and truly over about the future of our city, it's only the details that matter now and a City leadership that is willing to take risks and implement plans.

rebs23

rebs23 wrote: »

The days of City Centres as shopping zones to attract people in cars is over.

Yes and no.


All working, cultural, and shopping needs in easy walking distance of high density city living will really compliment each other.


But a dead city will hamper attractive apartment development and no high density (with no car traffic) will hamper shopping etc.


We need Cork City to be a living centre; it's compact, full of wonderful narrow lanes, has wide main boulevards.
It can be a wonderful and vibrant self sustaining city, if done right.

namloc1980

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

You say my comment is ridiculous, enlighten me then Einstein of the things the city centre offer other than congested traffic, boarded up shops, junkies tapping everyone , out of tune buskers etc.


stand outside the old roches stores and look across the street where A-wear, quills , the savoy were ....all gone, debenhams bailing out, units all over the place boarded up.

We know the retail element of the city is going through a challenging time but this isn't unique to Cork. Main streets are struggling all over. Debenhams are shutting up shop across the country.

It's clear to me anyway that a city centre must be attractive for people in order to be vibrant and evolve. City council unfortunately see the city centre as nothing more than a giant shopping centre and as you did, continuously try to compare it to Mahon or Blackpool.

The same old car centric policies do not work in this changing landscape. Our quays are choked with traffic and parking when they could be amazing like this:



You could easily imagine a similar scene on Morrisons Quay or Camden Quay. The council and certain councillors are always bemoaning why the city isn't doing as well as it should. And invariably the things they try involve incentivising cars: free parking promotions, temporarily depedestrianising OPS a few weeks ago, allowing cars to park with impunity on the meagre cycling facilities we do have. And then they scratch their heads when it doesn't work - a famous man once said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results".

We need people with vision, ambition and above all courage to do what is needed in Cork. Unfortunately they don't exist in City Hall.

Justin Credible Darts

yeah camden quay would look nice like that....but with no cars or parking you then have to depend on the appalling public transport to get in town, and hope the nearest bus stop to the spot means less junkies you have to pass on the way, or beggars tapping you, or avoiding awful buskers.
Its nice to have dreams, but I cannot see it in my lifetime, as you say its not that we would not want it, but lets be realistic, look at the system in our city..

Granted with the proposed new buildings it will visually look a lot more vibrant, and whilst there might be more to the city than just shopping, those empty stores are awful no matter how much spin people try to use to deflect from it.

namloc1980

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

yeah camden quay would look nice like that....but with no cars or parking you then have to depend on the appalling public transport to get in town, and hope the nearest bus stop to the spot means less junkies you have to pass on the way, or beggars tapping you, or avoiding awful buskers.
Its nice to have dreams, but I cannot see it in my lifetime, as you say its not that we would not want it, but lets be realistic, look at the system in our city..

Granted with the proposed new buildings it will visually look a lot more vibrant, and whilst there might be more to the city than just shopping, those empty stores are awful no matter how much spin people try to use to deflect from it.

That's why we have CMATS to transform transport in the city. It's not perfect but it would open up a whole load of opportunities. The alternative is to do nothing and just let the place die - which is the current policy of City Hall. Doing nothing is worse than trying something!

By the way I don't think Cork has as bad a problem with junkies as you make out. Sure they are there but not a huge pressing issue. Most cities I've been to have a much more visible problem, case in point, Dublin.

Captainsatnav

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's why we have CMATS to transform transport in the city. It's not perfect but it would open up a whole load of opportunities. The alternative is to do nothing and just let the place die - which is the current policy of City Hall. Doing nothing is worse than trying something!

By the way I don't think Cork has as bad a problem with junkies as you make out. Sure they are there but not a huge pressing issue. Most cities I've been to have a much more visible problem, case in point, Dublin.

Dublin's very, very bad for the junkies.I live here but am looking at houses in Cork to try to own my own home.

If 5% of CMATS sees actual human use upon implementation I'll eat my hat. Cork can't even police the bike lanes it has now, nor adequately maintain/promote the public bike scheme.

namloc1980

Captainsatnav wrote: »

Dublin's very, very bad for the junkies.I live here but am looking at houses in Cork to try to own my own home.

If 5% of CMATS sees actual human use upon implementation I'll eat my hat. Cork can't even police the bike lanes it has now, nor adequately maintain/promote the public bike scheme.

Improved buses with integrated ticketing, bus lanes and a Luas. Electrified suburban rail also. And you think nobody will use that. You do realise that the current city bus service has c.13m passenger journeys per year as it is? Suburban rail another 2m+ plus in its current form. By your estimation of 5% use, you see public transport numbers plummeting on an improved system. Do you have some studies or anything to show that's what would happen?

Treehelpplease

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

yeah camden quay would look nice like that....but with no cars or parking you then have to depend on the appalling public transport to get in town, and hope the nearest bus stop to the spot means less junkies you have to pass on the way, or beggars tapping you, or avoiding awful buskers.
Its nice to have dreams, but I cannot see it in my lifetime, as you say its not that we would not want it, but lets be realistic, look at the system in our city..

I'm sorry but before Coronavirus, I got the bus every single weekday, and have been for the last three years. Various routes across the southside and city centre. Never once have I seen a junky by a bus stop (sure, I've seen a few in town but you see people like that everywhere), I have never been tapped by a beggar, and while I agree there are some bad buskers, I usually have my headphones in and when I don't, the sound of people usually overpower them until you're very close. Also, the bus service is not appalling. Sure, sometimes there is a ghost bus or it's late by a minute or two, but usually the only time it is ever bad is rush hour, and that is for one main reason. Cars causing traffic. The amount of times I've been waiting on the South Mall and the bus is at the opposite end, if only there was a bus lane. It isn't like that's the bus' fault - that's up to whoever controls the roads. Decrease the priority of cars and add more bus lanes with bus specific lights. The changes to Sheare's Street have been great, for example, especially the new bus specific lights at the junction of Liberty Street, Courthouse Street and Grattan Street

Captainsatnav

namloc1980 wrote: »

Improved buses with integrated ticketing, bus lanes and a Luas. Electrified suburban rail also. And you think nobody will use that. You do realise that the current city bus service has c.13m passenger journeys per year as it is? Suburban rail another 2m+ plus in its current form. By your estimation of 5% use, you see public transport numbers plummeting on an improved system. Do you have some studies or anything to show that's what would happen?

Poorly worded on my part. I mean if 5% of CMATS sees the light of day and has active users, THEN I'd say my hat
I'm basing this pessimism regrettably on past (lack of) performance in any way, shape or form of city council beyond pandering to the private car and also the fact that all we've been getting for a couple of years now on Nationwide on RTE and the Sunday Business Post special supplement s about "Cork Rising" and the likes are the same regurgitation of a "city on the cusp"... Time to sh1t or get off the pot now.

the beer revolu

Justin Edgy Darts being edgy!
You tell it like it is, Justin!

Justin likes to spew stuff that he thinks will get on people's nerves - It's mostly nonsense but it gets some people going.
Yes, we all know that Cork is awash with junkies, right?

namloc1980

Captainsatnav wrote: »

Poorly worded on my part. I mean if 5% of CMATS sees the light of day and has active users, THEN I'd say my hat
I'm basing this pessimism regrettably on past (lack of) performance in any way, shape or form of city council beyond pandering to the private car and also the fact that all we've been getting for a couple of years now on Nationwide on RTE and the Sunday Business Post special supplement s about "Cork Rising" and the likes are the same regurgitation of a "city on the cusp"... Time to sh1t or get off the pot now.

Got ya now and totally agree unfortunately. Cork moves at a glacial pace. Meanwhile places as diverse as Moscow and Ennis are able to implement popup bike lanes and street pedestrianisation. But not Cork.

Interestingly I saw this on on twitter. Leeds City Council actively engaging with the community looking for ideas on how to improve mobility and active travel. Can you honestly imagine City Hall engaging with citizens like this??

.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Meanwhile, on French Church Street, this has managed to sneak it's way past the planning dept in City Hall it seems...

https://twitter.com/RandomCorkStuff/status/1262314473932697601?s=19

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Meanwhile, on French Church Street, this has managed to sneak it's way past the planning dept in City Hall it seems...

https://twitter.com/RandomCorkStuff/status/1262314473932697601?s=19

If PantiBar and BDSM get hammered for actually nice signage these guys better be taken to task.


Why are we licensing gambling houses right in our historical area. I know they've been there for ages but still

cgcsb

Unfortunately CMATS is as unambitious as it is untimely. CMATS envisages an INCREASE in the number of a car journeys, 60% of capital spend being on new roads, increasing cycling modal share from 4% to 5% and crucially a key part of the plan is to do NOTHING until 2030. The lack of ambition is not limited to Cork. In Dublin for example IF the big projects are completed by 2027, modal share will remain almost the same as it is today, with some improvement in the cycling % share, because the overall number of journeys will have increased so much by then. Also it is envisaged that with the 3 big Dublin projects FINISHED in 2027, the overall PT system will be operating at capacity. Like the luas in Dublin all over again, the opening day sees max capacity, due to a lack of ambition.

namloc1980

.

Apparently Tuckey St and Paul St were pedestrianised from today, but with no barriers/bollards or signage. That's actually comical. City Hall are some chancers.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

6 hours a day pedestrianisation of tiny streets and they couldn't even get that right.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so damn pathetic.

They'd want to start getting the finger out quickly.

And Queen Ann and Tarmac Terry wonder why they receive criticism online?!

namloc1980

.

Patting themselves on the back again and showing a picture of the street "pedestrianised" with loads of cars in the background on the actual street. Absolutely useless they are.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Their social media pages are gas.

When it's not the LM doing photo ops, it's stuff like this.

They like the positive comments and queries, and ignore the negative ones.

Captainsatnav

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

6 hours a day pedestrianisation of tiny streets and they couldn't even get that right.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so damn pathetic.

They'd want to start getting the finger out quickly.

And Queen Ann and Tarmac Terry wonder why they receive criticism online?!

Where do they get abuse online?...Because I'd like to add to it.

Justin Credible Darts

the beer revolu wrote: »

Justin Edgy Darts being edgy!
You tell it like it is, Justin!

Justin likes to spew stuff that he thinks will get on people's nerves - It's mostly nonsense but it gets some people going.
Yes, we all know that Cork is awash with junkies, right?

You are someone with an agenda who is so parochial you think any criticism of cork must be trolling.


It wont change the facts Patrick Street has countless empty shops,
Wont change the fact junkies roam the streets and places like Winthrop Street is a disgrace at night for fighting and gangs of pissed up youths hanging around
It wont change the fact the public transport is rubbish
It wont change the fact there seems to be less gardai on the street as each year passes.


Having a pop at me wont alter the facts, it wont make all the shops open and the streets safer or the buses run on time etc

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Captainsatnav wrote: »

Where do they get abuse online?...Because I'd like to add to it.

Their twitter account mainly - not abuse per se but negative comments regarding their appalling efforts so far. http://www.twitter.com/corkcitycouncil

rebs23

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

You are someone with an agenda who is so parochial you think any criticism of cork must be trolling.


It wont change the facts Patrick Street has countless empty shops,
Wont change the fact junkies roam the streets and places like Winthrop Street is a disgrace at night for fighting and gangs of pissed up youths hanging around
It wont change the fact the public transport is rubbish
It wont change the fact there seems to be less gardai on the street as each year passes.


Having a pop at me wont alter the facts, it wont make all the shops open and the streets safer or the buses run on time etc

Ah come on Justin you West Ham supporting Darts fan that has never posted a positive comment about Cork. Is it any wonder you attract this type of response when you consistently engage in negative commentary about the City you claim you come from. You dislike the place you come from so much that you have consistently refused to capitalise the "c" in Cork, you will not support either Cork City or Cork in GAA matches and you consistently grossly exaggerate the negative aspects of the city.
There may be some merit in your comments on garda patrols or the behaviour of the homeless/vagrants/drug addicts but it is the gross exaggeration is the problem.
How about telling us what you like about the place occasionally or acknowledging that Cork City has the lowest crime rate of all of Irelandl's cities or the vibrant cultural activities in the city centre, or the cafe
/ food scene, multi cuturalism of the city but no you compare fecking dull take aways in a shopping centre to the offering in the city centre.
Tell us are you really from Cork or just a troll from some hell hole elsewhere that is jealous of what Cork has become.

Justin Credible Darts

rebs23 wrote: »

Ah come on Justin you West Ham supporting Darts fan that has never posted a positive comment about Cork. Is it any wonder you attract this type of response when you consistently engage in negative commentary about the City you claim you come from. You dislike the place you come from so much that you have consistently refused to capitalise the "c" in Cork, you will not support either Cork City or Cork in GAA matches and you consistently grossly exaggerate the negative aspects of the city.
There may be some merit in your comments on garda patrols or the behaviour of the homeless/vagrants/drug addicts but it is the gross exaggeration is the problem.
How about telling us what you like about the place occasionally or acknowledging that Cork City has the lowest crime rate of all of Irelandl's cities or the vibrant cultural activities in the city centre, or the cafe
/ food scene, multi cuturalism of the city but no you compare fecking dull take aways in a shopping centre to the offering in the city centre.
Tell us are you really from Cork or just a troll from some hell hole elsewhere that is jealous of what Cork has become.

oh look another with an agenda,


What has I liking darts got to to do with the issue ?
What has my dislike for the GAA got to do with the issue ?
Spelling cork with a capital c wont make the shops open will it ?


If you actually opened your eyes and actually read my posts you will see I said cork is great for bars and stuff at night.
I made it evidently clear I was referring to closed shops, junkies, public transport etc which are all factual issues.


Like the last clownshoe, you think having a go at the poster will alter the facts.
The fact some one from cork could highlight the negatives in cork must mean I am not from cork in your eyes ?
How narrow minded and parochial are you ?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

More streets to be pedestrianised..

https://twitter.com/sendboyle/status/1262459837503471619?s=19

Chris_5339762

Good. Chuck down a temporary set of bollards and then get the more involved works done at a later date.

As long as it doesn't delay Dunkettle. Its coping at the moment, but on the next Phase we'll go back to jams. Just barely coping today.