Cork developments

snotboogie

namloc1980 wrote: »

I don't think this has planning so it couldn't start in Q4. It went to ABP for a pre-planning consultation with the latest update from May being that further consideration is required. It's a long way off full planning yet.

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/306166.htm

ABP are working at half speed due to covid. When this was logged in December, I'd say they expected it to be approved by Q4 2020

marno21

The main, glaringly obvious issue with the Marquee development is the infrastructure in those photos that doesn't exist. The apartments are bordered on one side by a street with tram tracks along it and on the other side by a wide 4 lane boulevard with bus lanes.

The area around there at the minute is connected to the city through a half derelict industrial estate.

Whatever about the apartments, that whole area is going to be extremely hamstrung until someone starts driving on public investment in that area.

Other than that, the development looks absolutely stunning. If we can really drive on the North and South Dockland developments we'll have quite a city on our hands.

marno21

namloc1980 wrote: »

I don't think this has planning so it couldn't start in Q4. It went to ABP for a pre-planning consultation with the latest update from May being that further consideration is required. It's a long way off full planning yet.

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/306166.htm

They can correct whatever ABP said was wrong and resubmit an actual application. That was just a pre-planning consultation to find any potential issues.

Student apartment development on Orchard Road got that response a few weeks back and it's gone in for an actual application now.

chalkitdown1

marno21 wrote: »

The main, glaringly obvious issue with the Marquee development is the infrastructure in those photos that doesn't exist. The apartments are bordered on one side by a street with tram tracks along it and on the other side by a wide 4 lane boulevard with bus lanes.

Yeah, that's mad. In reality, won't these apartments be overlooking the in-development Marnina Park on one side (where the 4 lane street & bus lanes are shown) and Centre Park road on the other?

Admittedly, Centre Park Road will eventually be widened at some point if that Bridge over to Tivoli ever gets built down there so a Tram coming down that road may happen...

Just not any time soon.

who_me

marno21 wrote: »

The main, glaringly obvious issue with the Marquee development is the infrastructure in those photos that doesn't exist. The apartments are bordered on one side by a street with tram tracks along it and on the other side by a wide 4 lane boulevard with bus lanes.

The area around there at the minute is connected to the city through a half derelict industrial estate.

Whatever about the apartments, that whole area is going to be extremely hamstrung until someone starts driving on public investment in that area.

Other than that, the development looks absolutely stunning. If we can really drive on the North and South Dockland developments we'll have quite a city on our hands.

Yeah, it's always going to be a chicken and egg scenario. "You can't build there, there are no services or infrastructure" / "Why build bus stops or bridges to an empty industrial estate..." etc.

At some stage someone has to take the first leap. As it stands, Victoria Rd. (on the West side) and Monahan Rd (on the South/East) are like hard borders and no one wants to be the first to step across.

bingo9999

The North and South docs LAP was due in Feb, which should at least put forward the plan for all of that. Getting it moving is another story as always, but maybe Michael Grath's talk of pushing ahead with all shovel ready plans could see this happen sooner rather than later.

SleetAndSnow

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Multi-billion-euro-Cork-transport-plan-25-Luas-stops-trams-every-5-minutes-eight-new-train-stations-1a8b9148-8f35-40f0-aac1-3ef151e72976-ds

At least they are still talking about it I suppose. Funding is all thats needed now but can't see that happening, seems to connect all the correct areas and important points though.

Also stumbled upon this on SCC from reputable poster DylanG with regards to JCDs tower at the sextant site:

I happened to stumble upon the planning report over the weekend while looking for a Marina Quarter SHD website. Some of ye may find it interesting so I'm going to summarise the construction phasing plan as best I can. Firstly, it says that the construction management plan has been designed by PJ Hegarty & Sons, who constructed 85 South Mall and Penrose Dock (remember, the latter still isn't done and probably would be if it hadn't been for Covid-19). Ignoring Covid-19, it sounds like they have intentions to actually build this rather than getting planning and selling it on

Phase 1: Site Preparation Works
The Careys warehouse and Sextant will be demolished. The two retained buildings (Carey House and the railway terminus building) will be used as a temporary construction compound for offices, toilets, canteens, storage, etc. When the new building is finished and these buildings need to be done up, the services mentioned previously will be moved to the ground floor of the new building. The former tracks, cobble, gate piers, wrought iron railings and cast iron post box will be retained and used in the landscaping strategy. The existing eastern stone boundary will be demolished and used reused in the ground level eastern elevation of the development (I'm guessing like they did with One Albert Quay)

Phase 2: Basement
Self explanatory. 15,850m3 of soil will be removed. There will be 402 cycle spaces, 6 motorcycle spaces and 62 car parking spaces (3 will be EV and 4 disabled, all will be fitted with ducting to allow them to become EV spaces in the future)

Phase 3: Residential Development
The build to rent scheme will be built next. It mentions that the facade will be made up of stone and glazing. Fit out will be done after, as well as refurbishment of the two retained buildings

Phase 4: Public realm and landscaping works
Also self explanatory. On top of the actual plazas, the footpaths on Albert Quay, Albert Road, Albert Street and in the immediate vicinity of the site will be upgraded.

It is expected to take 24 months to be completed, with the cores rising in the 5th month. There will be three main cores, one for each building (the 10 storey, 12 storey and 25 storey)

snotboogie

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Multi-billion-euro-Cork-transport-plan-25-Luas-stops-trams-every-5-minutes-eight-new-train-stations-1a8b9148-8f35-40f0-aac1-3ef151e72976-ds

At least they are still talking about it I suppose. Funding is all thats needed now but can't see that happening, seems to connect all the correct areas and important points though.

Funding is probably in a better place than it was 6 months ago. Everything coming out of government is suggesting that they are going to pump money into infrastructure to help get the economy going. Cheap credit makes this completely different from the 2008 recession.

namloc1980

snotboogie wrote: »

Funding is probably in a better place than it was 6 months ago. Everything coming out of government is suggesting that they are going to pump money into infrastructure to help get the economy going. Cheap credit makes this completely different from the 2008 recession.

Wouldn't be so sure to be honest. I would imagine the focus of Covid economic stimulus will be on shovel ready or close to shovel ready projects which will give immediate impact. Nothing in CMATS is beyond a rough drawing board concept art this point.

marno21

Some elements could be progressed quickly e.g. the greenways, the new train stations, the heavy rail works.

There is so much in there that there really needs to be a dedicated office within the NTA to manage all of this though.

marno21

Article on the front of de paper tomorrow about CMATS being presented to the Council:

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Examiner1-768x1158.jpg (link due to size of image - can't resize as it would make the text unreadable!)

Luas: Tender out for consultants for the route options and start of planning. To be appointed next month.
NDR: Tender out for consultants for route selection (planned to take 12 months)
SDR: Tender to go out shortly for consultants
BusConnects: tender to go out next month.

Would be fantastic if they drove on the greenways and cycling faciltiies. Some quick and easy wins in there.

Shedite27

marno21 wrote: »

Article on the front of de paper tomorrow about CMATS being presented to the Council:

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Examiner1-768x1158.jpg (link due to size of image - can't resize as it would make the text unreadable!)

Luas: Tender out for consultants for the route options and start of planning. To be appointed next month.
NDR: Tender out for consultants for route selection (planned to take 12 months)
SDR: Tender to go out shortly for consultants
BusConnects: tender to go out next month.

Would be fantastic if they drove on the greenways and cycling faciltiies. Some quick and easy wins in there.

Here's the article
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40019030.html

namloc1980

marno21 wrote: »

Article on the front of de paper tomorrow about CMATS being presented to the Council:

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Examiner1-768x1158.jpg (link due to size of image - can't resize as it would make the text unreadable!)

Luas: Tender out for consultants for the route options and start of planning. To be appointed next month.
NDR: Tender out for consultants for route selection (planned to take 12 months)
SDR: Tender to go out shortly for consultants
BusConnects: tender to go out next month.

Would be fantastic if they drove on the greenways and cycling faciltiies. Some quick and easy wins in there.

The quick wins need to be progressed without delay. New roads, BusConnects and Luas will take many years to come to any fruition but the cycle facilities, greenways, new P&Rs and some improvements to the rail network (Blackpool and Carrigtwohill West stations being built for instance) could be done fairly quickly.

whisky_galore

Shedite27 wrote: »

Here's the article
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40019030.html

Yet another dose of artists impressions Photoshop.
Talk is cheap.

namloc1980

With the mishandling of public projects in Cork (Event Centre, Tramore Valley Park etc) it's hard to be anything other than cynical that CMATS will ever be fully delivered.

namloc1980

Saw this on Twitter about some info coming out of the NTA briefing to the council on Monday. It seems the development of the Luas is contingent on certain population levels being reached and could take up to 20 years. And that funding is very uncertain.

.

marno21

namloc1980 wrote: »

Saw this on Twitter about some info coming out of the NTA briefing to the council on Monday. It seems the development of the Luas is contingent on certain population levels being reached and could take up to 20 years. And that funding is very uncertain.

.

Time for the city council to keep this in mind and promote dense development along the protected route corridor

CMATS needs to become the foundation for land use and planning for it to be complete success

hans aus dtschl

There are some things I'm reasonably confident that CMATS will deliver:
A higher percentage of cars in the Cork Metro area by 2040 than Dublin had in 2011.
Their target of mode share of bicycles can be achieved (4% by 2040 is the ambition, they had measured 3% in 2011).
I reckon they might get the Waterrock N25 "moar houses" junction done too, because they hope to increase urban sprawl on that side of the city, if at all possible.

namloc1980

marno21 wrote: »

Time for the city council to keep this in mind and promote dense development along the protected route corridor

CMATS needs to become the foundation for land use and planning for it to be complete success

Asked Dan Boyle the same question and he confirmed that the NTA is insisting that significant development proceeds along the corridor over the coming years before Luas will proceed to full development. Looks like in the meantime the NTA will do the basic route planning and corridor/station identification but essentially leaving it to the Council to ensure the groundwork is done to justify progressing to actual development of it.

namloc1980

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

There are some things I'm reasonably confident that CMATS will deliver:
A higher percentage of cars in the Cork Metro area by 2040 than Dublin had in 2011.
Their target of mode share of bicycles can be achieved (4% by 2040 is the ambition, they had measured 3% in 2011).
I reckon they might get the Waterrock N25 "moar houses" junction done too, because they hope to increase urban sprawl on that side of the city, if at all possible.

The 4% share for cycling by 2040 is laughable in CMATS. That would be achieved in a do nothing scenario.

who_me

namloc1980 wrote: »

Saw this on Twitter about some info coming out of the NTA briefing to the council on Monday. It seems the development of the Luas is contingent on certain population levels being reached and could take up to 20 years. And that funding is very uncertain.

Well, I'd need to have some firm assurances on funding before I make any future plans. There's no way I'm having sex for nothing.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

The 4% share for cycling by 2040 is laughable in CMATS. That would be achieved in a do nothing scenario.

I suspect it's been achieved already. There's been an increase in cycling since 2011 even before COVID-19. We're in the middle of a cycling boom AFAIK.
That all happened without CMATS, and entire CMATS expenditure on cycling is supposed to be complete by 2031 according to their implementation matrix.

If you look at the CMATS background docs, there's a wealth of contradictions in there. Waffle in, waffle out.

namloc1980

I see Ireland will be a net contributor to the EU stimulus fund to the tune of €15.7 Billion(!) over the next few years to prop up Italy and Spain. There won't be too much money available for projects at home.

Captainsatnav

namloc1980 wrote: »

I see Ireland will be a net contributor to the EU stimulus fund to the tune of €15.7 Billion(!) over the next few years to prop up Italy and Spain. There won't be too much money available for projects at home.

Ah there will.

namloc1980

Captainsatnav wrote: »

Ah there will.

Micheal must've found the magic money tree growing somewhere.

namloc1980

The EU Commission released a list of 140 EU transport projects to receive direct EU funding to help kick start the European economy. Only 1 project in Ireland got any funding and that's DART expansion in Dublin.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/files/news/2020-07-16-cef/selected_projects_general_map.pdf

whoistalking

Talking about the connectivity of the Marquee development to town.

It would be great if the Marine could be extended directly from Shandon boat club into the city center by Kennedy and Albert quays, providing a direct cycle and walking route along the Lee.

There seems to be plenty space at the back of the industrial estate and the ESB power station.

Anyone have any ideas/thoughts on this or info as to pre-existing plans or attempts I am unaware of?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Asked Dan Boyle the same question and he confirmed that the NTA is insisting that significant development proceeds along the corridor over the coming years before Luas will proceed to full development. Looks like in the meantime the NTA will do the basic route planning and corridor/station identification but essentially leaving it to the Council to ensure the groundwork is done to justify progressing to actual development of it.

We're fcuked if they're mainly relying on City Hall to get this right.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

namloc1980 wrote: »

The 4% share for cycling by 2040 is laughable in CMATS. That would be achieved in a do nothing scenario.

It's pretty much at that now I'd imagine. It's pathetic.

major interest

whoistalking wrote: »

Talking about the connectivity of the Marquee development to town.

It would be great if the Marine could be extended directly from Shandon boat club into the city center by Kennedy and Albert quays, providing a direct cycle and walking route along the Lee.

There seems to be plenty space at the back of the industrial estate and the ESB power station.

Anyone have any ideas/thoughts on this or info as to pre-existing plans or attempts I am unaware of?

Have wondered the same thing alright. Not aware of any plans but would be a no brainier when developing the south docks to develop the river frontage as a public amenity (rather than a 3 lane road as most of the quays near city centre are). There is ample room to set buildings well back from the river to allow such a plan.