Cork developments

lostinsuperfunk

I believe it was a Tedcastles/TOP service station you may be referring is the corner entrance to the Clayton Hotel Cork City (ex-Clarion Hotel) on Lapp's Quay as Tedcastles had offices also along there and I think there was a car showroom/sales garage along that quay pre it's redevelopment in early/mid 2000's. There was an ESSO filling station opposite St. Patrick's Church which also disappeared around then although; in unrelated circumstances.

You are right, the Tedcastles station was on Lapp's Quay, where the Clayton is now. I also remember the "Unity Garage" Esso station opposite St. Patrick's Church. It continued as a repairs garage into the late 1990s at least.

However I think I also can recall a station on Brian Boru Street.

the beer revolu

lostinsuperfunk wrote: »

However I think I also can recall a station on Brian Boru Street.

:D:D

That's 2 definites and one maybe!

opus

I'd love to get involved in the great garage hunt but afraid I wasn't in Cork back then

AwaitYourReply

lostinsuperfunk wrote: »

You are right, the Tedcastles station was on Lapp's Quay, where the Clayton is now. I also remember the "Unity Garage" Esso station opposite St. Patrick's Church. It continued as a repairs garage into the late 1990s at least.

However I think I also can recall a station on Brian Boru Street.

The Esso Garage had filling pumps and shop as far as I recall as I was working in that area from Feb 1998 until early noughties and I'm sure I may have got a fill of petrol in that location. I don't recall it operating as a garage when the pumps were gone but maybe I'm wrong on this. I know there was another filling station opposite Lower Glanmire Road Railway Station (formerly Texaco) which probably gave way to repairs - still there as Murphy's I think?

Where do you think/recall the station on Brian Ború Street? Are we talking right opposite the old Postal Sorting Office? I recall there was a small convenience shop on a site near the quay which closed and was only demolished a few years ago.

lostinsuperfunk

Examiner article from 1999. No mention of the petrol station!

marno21

lostinsuperfunk wrote: »

Examiner article from 1999. No mention of the petrol station!

“CIE are advancing plans for the sale of the Horgan’s Quay site”

In 1999! Such a rapid development that ended up becoming

Seamai

Mav11 wrote: »

Likewise. I can't remember the number of times that I fell off my bike on Brian Boru bridge when the wheel got stuck in the track.

Yeah, my mum used to cycle that way to school and dreaded that section.

Going Strong

marno21 wrote: »

“CIE are advancing plans for the sale of the Horgan’s Quay site”

In 1999! Such a rapid development that ended up becoming

I think there was a lot of waiting for Dublin to reach overcapacity so that businesses would have to look elsewhere, Cork in particular.

I was working in Dublin around the Millennium and we were based in an overcrowded office off Grand Canal Plaza. There was lots of complaining about the lack of space and insufficient parking etc. Management looked into moving and told us that it was either the Dublin/Kildare border or the Dublin Mountains as there was nowhere suitable closer to the city centre. We all figured we'd suffer on where we were.

I moved back to Cork in 2006 and my then nextdoor neighbour worked for a property development company who were looking at developing Horgan's Quay and Kennedy Quay*. They said that they were getting a lot of interest from multinationals who couldn't find what they wanted in Dublin.

Then the crash happened in 2008 and hit the reset button. And perhaps Covid will do so again.




*They threw a champagne party when R&H Hall had its accidentally on purpose fire as they thought this would clear the logjam.

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

“CIE are advancing plans for the sale of the Horgan’s Quay site”

In 1999! Such a rapid development that ended up becoming

I think in 2040 we'll be looking back at that massive Examiner pullout from last year in the same fashion. What are the real chances of the likes of R&H Hall to be redeveloped before 2040? Speaking of slow moving Cork developments All parties remain committed to Cork's Events Centre project

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

I think in 2040 we'll be looking back at that massive Examiner pullout from last year in the same fashion. What are the real chances of the likes of R&H Hall to be redeveloped before 2040? Speaking of slow moving Cork developments All parties remain committed to Cork's Events Centre project

Agreed on the first point.

With the Events Centre though, I'm not too surprised. Live events are currently banned, and as it stands the development is completely unviable.

If the excuses are rolled out again in 2021 when vaccines are administered and the worlds returns to normality.

I am cautiously optimistic about R&H Hall and the surrounding area, with the recent news that Waterford got about it's similar North Quays area, and the establishment of the Cork Docklands delivery office. I am also optimistic that the penny will drop soon that there is little point in having VAT and other charges on apartment development if these levies make apartments unviable and the resultant income from said levies is zero.

marno21

Celtic Interconnector converter station is to be at the Amgen site at Ballyadam, Carrigtwohill

Interesting quote:

Echo wrote:

The consultation process resulted in a preference for Ballyadam as the most appropriate location for the new station given the existing and anticipated industrial and commercial activity in the area

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-site-chosen-for-converter-station-for-1-billion-electricity-project-799228c2-7107-4116-bb21-bbff6b45b1b6-ds

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

Celtic Interconnector converter station is to be at the Amgen site at Ballyadam, Carrigtwohill

I tried to tell you this over on the infra forum. They're doing anything and everything they can to upgrade the road infrastructure in the area "for the safety of cyclists and pedestrians".

Reality is the county are progressing their "city outside the city" business plan.

who_me

Going Strong wrote: »

I moved back to Cork in 2006 and my then nextdoor neighbour worked for a property development company who were looking at developing Horgan's Quay and Kennedy Quay*. They said that they were getting a lot of interest from multinationals who couldn't find what they wanted in Dublin.

Then the crash happened in 2008 and hit the reset button. And perhaps Covid will do so again.

The problem is that - for whatever reason - projects seem to ramp up much quicker in Dublin than in Cork once economic conditions start to improve. There actually are a lot of Cork projects either on the long finger or in limbo, in large part due to Covid. But if not for Covid, there would be other challenges - the lack of local area plans, lack of public infrastructure and investment, the eventual economic downturn etc.

The longer it takes projects to get going, the more likely the economic conditions are going to take a downturn before they ever materialise. Lots of that is out of our control, but at least you'd think the planning process could do with massive improvements. It surely needs to be vastly quicker.

I'm not saying it should greenlight everything; that would be even worse. But I'm sure most developers would infinitely prefer to get a negative response within a few weeks, rather than a positive response after a year or more and then have that appealed for 6 more. At least with a quick rejection, they can immediately take on the feedback, and re-submit or move on.

One of the worst for me was reading an objection on the height of the Prism lead to a delay of 18 weeks. How on Earth can it take 18 weeks to tell if a building is too tall or not? They should have a block-by-block map of the city with a pre-approved height range guide for each (too low - not enough density; too high - impact on views or other properties; with some scope depending on the building design). Boom - 18 weeks down to a few minutes.

Instead we have so many projects stagnating or cancelled. Half-demolished or half-constructed projects all around the city. Horgan's Quay and Navigation Square, half finished. O'Sullivan's Quay knocked and zero progress. Event centre stalled. Camden Quay site mostly cleared, sitting idle (hope the remaining structure is safe, until the hotel development commences).

cantalach

TheChizler wrote: »

Really interesting how some areas of Cork are instantly recognisable even in the era of steam trains, and some areas could be in a different country. It is worth holding on to some parts of our civil history.

Agreed, and that includes the historic place names. It struck me how much the video referred to Albert Quay, a name that some would have us change. But as the video demonstrates, names like that are now woven into *our* history as much as anyone else’s history. The old men who once worked as drivers, brakemen, shunters, flag men, etc. aren’t suddenly going to re-word their workplace ‘lore to refer to whatever it might end up being called.

cantalach

cantalach wrote: »

Agreed, and that includes the historic place names. It struck me how much the video referred to Albert Quay, a name that some would have us change. But as the video demonstrates, names like that are now woven into *our* history as much as anyone else’s history. The old men who once worked as drivers, brakemen, shunters, flag men, etc. aren’t suddenly going to re-word their workplace ‘lore to refer to whatever it might end up being called.

So you don't like Cobh or Dún Laoghaire?

rounders

Deleted User wrote: »

So you don't like Cobh or Dún Laoghaire?

Think you might have picked up the OP wrong. I think he is referring to recent requests (in the last 12 months) by certain groups in the city to rename some of the streets as they reference English figures such as Victoria Road. The OP is stating we shouldn't change these street names as they are part of our history too.

I agree with the OP. Unless they can make a case of renaming a street such as a important figure in Irish history lived on a street and they want to name the street after them but renaming streets for the sake of it is just unnecessary hassle and kinda childish at this late stage. The time to rename places was 80 years ago. Or 100 years ago in the case of Cobh and Dún Laoghaire

https://www.thejournal.ie/cork-street-names-campaign-3243784-Feb2017/

Anywho, we seemed to stray a lot from Development talk with history. Might be time to bring it back on topic.

jhegarty

Deleted User wrote: »

So you don't like Cobh or Dún Laoghaire?

Cobh was called Cove for 100 year, Queenstown for 71 years and Cobh for another 100.

So it's Queenstown is the outlier here.


The name Kingstown was also a raname for Dún Laoghaire with it's original name going back many years.

cantalach

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you don't like Cobh or Dún Laoghaire?

I certainly do like Dún Laoighre. I don’t like Cobh but that’s only because it’s an ugly Gaelicisation of a foreign word. Cobh is up there with “píotsa” and other nonsense. But as a rule, I prefer Irish names to English names. To my ear, Baile an Chuainín is immeasurably nicer than Myrtleville. There’s a hint in my username. Is gaelgeoir mé agus táim thar a bheith bródúil as ar logainmneacha.

But to the best of my knowledge, Albert Quay wasn’t called anything before it was called Albert Quay. Victoria Avenue was laid down while herself was on the throne. There is nothing to go back to.

Apogee

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-30995716.html

AwaitYourReply

marno21 wrote: »

“CIE are advancing plans for the sale of the Horgan’s Quay site”

In 1999! Such a rapid development that ended up becoming

Believe it or not, the re-development of Horgan's Quay goes back to 1995 which ended after a national controversy surrounded allegations that CIÉ had not put the sale of land at Horgan's Quay out for public tender at the time.

The following is an excerpt from an article by Tommy Barker published in the Irish Examiner on Thursday, 22nd October, 2015:

..."Proposed at one stage was up to 1,500 apartments, in a €500 million scheme, and the then City Manager Joe Gavin also proposed it as a centre for a 5,000 sq ft conference centre.

A planning application for phase one was lodged in late 2006, for seven apartment blocks, including one of 24 storeys, some 23 metres higher than the now-completed Elysian tower.

Again, nothing came of it, with a market downturn in 2007/08 shattering development dreams and wiping out many of the country’s main property players."...

I often wonder if a Cork Events Centre would have been better suited to a portion of the land based at Horgan's Quay rather than the chosen South Main Street site given Horgan's Quay's close proximity to rail & bus terminals and main road network. I think the narrow street surrounding the former Beamish & Crawford brewery site likely to experience a lot of traffic congestion.

Source:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/arid-20360691.html

fonecrusher1

rounders wrote: »

Think you might have picked up the OP wrong. I think he is referring to recent requests (in the last 12 months) by certain groups in the city to rename some of the streets as they reference English figures such as Victoria Road. The OP is stating we shouldn't change these street names as they are part of our history too.

Oh yeah like someone one day deciding that we should have a "Victorian Quarter" :rolleyes:

If anything it would be MacCurtain Quarter or something like that. Or just leave it as it is.

Apogee

Apogee wrote: »

A disused commercial building at the eastern end of Oliver Plunkett St, behind Connolly Hall, could be set for a new lease of life. LHC Investment Ltd has applied to Cork City Council for permission to convert the building at the corner of Lower Oliver Plunkett St and Connell St. It was previously used for motorcycle sales and as Cork Community Print Shop. The proposal is to revamp the building into a ‘guest accommodation’ facility with 19 bedrooms, numbering some 43 beds, and a café.Planners will make their decision by the start of September.



https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40016795.html

This appears to have been granted:
http://planning.corkcity.ie/AppFileRefDetails/2039390/0

who_me

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

I often wonder if a Cork Events Centre would have been better suited to a portion of the land based at Horgan's Quay rather than the chosen South Main Street site given Horgan's Quay's close proximity to rail & bus terminals and main road network. I think the narrow street surrounding the former Beamish & Crawford brewery site likely to experience a lot of traffic congestion.

I agree. Or maybe the block immediately to the West of Penrose Wharf (the block that's mostly an indoor carpark, with the curved old railway through it).

It's close to the city centre, close the McCurtain St. with its pubs/restaurants, close to the bus station and the private bus stops on Patrick's Quay, and it's right on the proposed light rail line. Plus it has some nice stone facades on the river front that could be accommodated into the design.

I'm still a little concerned about the event centre location. Hate to think what might happen if there were any kind of emergency there - it's surrounded by single lane streets with no scope for traffic to pull out of the way.

I'd love to see images of the 24 floor blocks previously proposed. Are those the Water St. development, or something different again?

cantalach

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Oh yeah like someone one day deciding that we should have a "Victorian Quarter".

“Victorian” denotes the era more so than the woman. Victorian architecture, language, customs, attitudes, etc. are of that time and not of that monarch. Same goes for Georgian, Edwardian, Regency, etc. These are internationally understood terms used by monarchists and republicans and all shades in between. So I can only assume that Cork’s Victorian Quarter is so named because it was developed at that time and perhaps has buildings typical of that time. The area certainly wasn’t given that name as an homage to Queen Victoria!

fonecrusher1

cantalach wrote: »

“Victorian” denotes the era more so than the woman. Victorian architecture, language, customs, attitudes, etc. are of that time and not of that monarch. Same goes for Georgian, Edwardian, Regency, etc. These are internationally understood terms used by monarchists and republicans and all shades in between. So I can only assume that Cork’s Victorian Quarter is so named because it was developed at that time and perhaps has buildings typical of that time. The area certainly wasn’t given that name as an homage to Queen Victoria!

Victorian era, in British history, the period between approximately 1820 and 1914, corresponding roughly but not exactly to the period of Queen Victoria's reign (1837–1901)


Who gave that part of the city that name? When was this decided or agreed to? I don't give it that name. Never have, never will. But that's just me each to their own.

whisky_galore

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Victorian era, in British history, the period between approximately 1820 and 1914, corresponding roughly but not exactly to the period of Queen Victoria's reign (1837–1901)


Who gave that part of the city that name? When was this decided or agreed to? I don't give it that name. Never have, never will. But that's just me each to their own.

Everything's a "quarter" of some kind or another now. It's the new thing now like.

fonecrusher1

whisky_galore wrote: »

Everything's a "quarter" of some kind or another now. It's the new thing now like.

Its a load of ****e.

bingo9999

Apogee wrote: »

This appears to have been granted:
http://planning.corkcity.ie/AppFileRefDetails/2039390/0

Thats no harm, bit of life and cheap tourist accomodation for the area

AwaitYourReply

who_me wrote: »

I agree. Or maybe the block immediately to the West of Penrose Wharf (the block that's mostly an indoor carpark, with the curved old railway through it).

It's close to the city centre, close the McCurtain St. with its pubs/restaurants, close to the bus station and the private bus stops on Patrick's Quay, and it's right on the proposed light rail line. Plus it has some nice stone facades on the river front that could be accommodated into the design.

I'm still a little concerned about the event centre location. Hate to think what might happen if there were any kind of emergency there - it's surrounded by single lane streets with no scope for traffic to pull out of the way.

I'd love to see images of the 24 floor blocks previously proposed. Are those the Water St. development, or something different again?

I never caught sight of any visual presentation of the original proposed Conference Centre at Horgan's Quay favoured by a former City Manager which was one of several ideas suggested on lands owned by CIÉ at Horgan's Quay back in the mid 1990's.

South Main Street as a base for a new Cork Events Centre sounded interesting at first although; I think that the proposed location of such a facility accommodating large volumes of attendees for relatively short periods of time would seem an odd location for a number of reasons.

While all these plans were being considered and being backed by various parties such as Cork City Council, the same local authority removed traffic lanes in recent years to facilitate cycle lanes in the surrounding areas such as South Main Street, Sullivan's Quay, French's Quay, Proby's Quay etc; which has resulted in narrow streets which also facilitates on-street disc parking apart from South Gate Bridge and outside former Sullivan's Quay school building that faces the river.

I gather there was disagreement regarding who would fund an additional access bridge via French's/Proby's Quay to the site of the Cork Events Centre. The proposed Events Centre building itself looks out of character and does not blend in well in such an old historic part of Cork despite revisions made. This area is overlooked by Elizabeth Fort and is also quite close to St. Fin Barre's Cathedral. I wonder if the site currently earmarked for the Cork Events Centre be more appropriate for a different type of development and if a Cork Events Centre is planned elsewhere that ticks more boxes that takes better account of transport/traffic congestion and so on. Is there sufficient land still available at Horgan's Quay for instance following all the other ongoing developments in that area?

AwaitYourReply

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

The Esso Garage had filling pumps and shop as far as I recall as I was working in that area from Feb 1998 until early noughties and I'm sure I may have got a fill of petrol in that location. I don't recall it operating as a garage when the pumps were gone but maybe I'm wrong on this. I know there was another filling station opposite Lower Glanmire Road Railway Station (formerly Texaco) which probably gave way to repairs - still there as Murphy's I think?

Where do you think/recall the station on Brian Ború Street? Are we talking right opposite the old Postal Sorting Office? I recall there was a small convenience shop on a site near the quay which closed and was only demolished a few years ago.

The one across from the railway station was texaco, It ceased being a petrol station in 91 or 92.
I think there was one further down by the arcadia before the bridge. Haven't been down that direction in years