Cork developments

TheChizler

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

Ithe same local authority removed traffic lanes in recent years to facilitate cycle lanes in the surrounding areas such as South Main Street, Sullivan's Quay, French's Quay, Proby's Quay etc; which has resulted in narrow streets which also facilitates on-street disc parking apart from South Gate Bridge and outside former Sullivan's Quay school building that faces the ri

Driving to the door of the event centre was never going to be a viable option no matter how many lanes there are.

cantalach

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

The proposed Events Centre building itself looks out of character and does not blend in well in such an old historic part of Cork despite revisions made.

Having new buildings blend in doesn't seem to be a thing any more. The thinking now seems to be that new structures act as a counterpoint to nearby historic structures. I think sometimes this counterpoint works, and sometimes it doesn't. Attempting to blend in can go horribly wrong too though, e.g. some of those faux-Georgian buildings in the Georgian areas of Dublin and Limerick are horrendous.

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

Driving to the door of the event centre was never going to be a viable option no matter how many lanes there are.

Having a full convention centre emptying out onto a busy North/South corridor is crazy, though.


Whole are should be pedestrianised but that would only be truly feasible if we had a NRR and finished works on the Dunkettle.

bingo9999

Deleted User wrote: »

Having a full convention centre emptying out onto a busy North/South corridor is crazy, though.


Whole are should be pedestrianised but that would only be truly feasible if we had a NRR and finished works on the Dunkettle.

Its probably also some of the point though, to capitalise on crowds like that spilling directly onto those streets looking for food/ drink options and driving regeneration of South Main/ Barrack street. Agree it should be pedestrianised, or at least taken down to a narrow lane with good footpaths on both sides

AwaitYourReply

TheChizler wrote: »

Driving to the door of the event centre was never going to be a viable option no matter how many lanes there are.

So; choosing a more appropriate site location like Horgan's Quay rather than the current option at South Main Street, which is much further away from the city's main Bus & Railway Stations, was probably a better way to go.

Apogee

https://twitter.com/Treb_Cork/status/1332378152820203520

EnzoScifo

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

So; choosing a more appropriate site location like Horgan's Quay rather than the current option at South Main Street, which is much further away from the city's main Bus & Railway Stations, was probably a better way to go.

But is bang in the middle of the City's central entertainment area creating passing business for the pubs, clubs, restaurants and retail.

You want people to spend money in the City while attending an event, not travelling in and out within minutes of the start/end of the show.

fonecrusher1

There is actually legitimate arguments for each.

Build it where it is now its going to be a congested nightmare now matter how much the idea is you don't drive to get there. But its so convenient being right in the middle of the city with access to great pubs and restaurants and as someone else said it generates business for the area. Well the whole city really.

Build it further out, Horgans quay or over by Center park rd area its much easier to access but the city center doesn't benefit as much and it encourages people to leave and head home straight away.

Anyway it'll probably still not be sorted for another few years yet judging by the pace of the long-winded ongoing negotiations. I lost interest in the whole thing a few years ago. They turned the sod on this 4 yrs ago. :eek:

Hate to say it again but if it was anywhere near Dublin......

BUNK1982

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Calls-for-a-Kildare-Village-type-development-in-Cork-city-centre-231d95f2-ff50-40db-89d4-1e8617cc1fa9-ds

I had my back up when I saw this headline, was even more surprised upon reading that it's actually a FF city councilor calling for a pedestrianization effort in Cork City Centre!

calnand

Where would that be built in the city centre? The entire Kildare village (including parking) takes up like 20 acres. Only place big enough for that is the docklands site. Which would ruin the proposed plans.

calnand

calnand wrote: »

Where would that be built in the city centre? The entire Kildare village (including parking) takes up like 20 acres. Only place big enough for that is the docklands site. Which would ruin the proposed plans.

They would claim that it would not need parking, with sufficient public transport.
Of course, if they pushed for high density (and high quality) city dwellings there would not be need for half the public transport.

Of course he is ignoring that Kildare Village is a soulless business park of factory outlets, in fancy clothes.
It would be a death-knell to city living.

BUNK1982

BUNK1982 wrote: »

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Calls-for-a-Kildare-Village-type-development-in-Cork-city-centre-231d95f2-ff50-40db-89d4-1e8617cc1fa9-ds

I had my back up when I saw this headline, was even more surprised upon reading that it's actually a FF city councilor calling for a pedestrianization effort in Cork City Centre!

FFS, the same opposed to the County plans for a yoke in Carrigtohill.

TheChizler

Plenty of empty properties on North Main Street, and it's a comparable length to Kildare Village. Might it work on a slightly smaller scale?

rebs23

TheChizler wrote: »

Plenty of empty properties on North Main Street, and it's a comparable length to Kildare Village. Might it work on a slightly smaller scale?

These outlet centres depend on cheap land on the outskirts of an urban area with plenty of parking for commuters. Don't see how it would work in a city centre location as the costs associated with land acquisition and construction/development in a brownfield location are significantly more than a suburban location. Anyway retail is hardly a growth industry at the moment, don't think these should be developed anywhere especially not in the suburbs/commuter towns placing further pressure on our city centres.

mean gene

noticed a new cycle lane put up on the hill up from paddy the farmers -the greens in full effect wasters

bingo9999

mean gene wrote: »

noticed a new cycle lane put up on the hill up from paddy the farmers -the greens in full effect wasters

Yes nothing boils my blood more than seeing children cycling safely to school at the expense of vans illegal parking. They should be in their parents cars holding you up in traffic

Curb Your Enthusiasm

mean gene wrote: »

noticed a new cycle lane put up on the hill up from paddy the farmers -the greens in full effect wasters

I assume you're talking about Southern Road. That mandatory cycle lane has been there for years. Rarely distinguishable / usable due to constant illegal parking. So bollards now installed as a result. The only 'wasters' here are the select selfish motorists who would park across this and other cycle tracks on a daily basis, placing people in danger, particularly on this busy stretch of road.

But yeah... How dare City Council protect vulnerable road users and prevent illegal parking, how dare they(!) :rolleyes: Calm yourself.

Summerhill South recently protected also, here's a great video showing exactly why we should make cycling safer in our city, and on the roads we all share:

https://twitter.com/CelsoBRA/status/1333701996000518146?s=19

Someone went and put a cycle lane down Templehill, outside Cork Con, without any permissions.

Loads of people got tickets torn up, over it, when bringing kids training.

the beer revolu

As you head up John Redmond Street, from Christy Ring bridge, the cycle lane abruptly stops. What is odd, is that the white line marking the cycle lane's outside edge continues but the area isn't filled in with the red stuff. It's kinda ambiguous whether it is a cycle lane or not. There are, however, double yellow lines there so, either way there should be no parking (there is a lot of illegal parking here).

So, why is this a cycle lane but not a cycle lane?

I have a theory but no evidence to back it up.

cantalach

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Someone went and put a cycle lane down Templehill, outside Cork Con, without any permissions.

Loads of people got tickets torn up, over it, when bringing kids training.

Most of those kids are coming from within a 3km radius. Wouldn’t it be better for all concerned if they cycled? Fitter rugby players. Less traffic and congestion outside Templehill. No carbon emissions.

hans aus dtschl

the beer revolu wrote: »

As you head up John Redmond Street, from Christy Ring bridge, the cycle lane abruptly stops. What is odd, is that the white line marking the cycle lane's outside edge continues but the area isn't filled in with the red stuff. It's kinda ambiguous whether it is a cycle lane or not. There are, however, double yellow lines there so, either way there should be no parking (there is a lot of illegal parking here).

So, why is this a cycle lane but not a cycle lane?

I have a theory but no evidence to back it up.

There is a no ambiguity about the official intention (it's a designated cycle lane), only about the implementation. Red bitumen costs a little extra and needs to be done on dry days. To do it right you need a designer who knows the issues, and councilors who care enough to fund it.

I am very fast to criticize the Council for not doing enough for active transport, but for the most part they simply struggle to understand active travel issues. Bad designs/implementations are normally not done out of malice, just a failure to understand the problems.

For instance:
They still think that pedestrians and cyclists sharing is OK.
They traditionally refused to fund physical separation, believing it to be an enforcement issue.

Some councilors and council engineers still believe provision cycle infrastructure to be "bread and circuses".
But they're not the only ones who are trying to get their head around sustainable transport, as the post above shows!
And they are changing, and they are trying.

cantalach

the beer revolu wrote: »

As you head up John Redmond Street, from Christy Ring bridge, the cycle lane abruptly stops. What is odd, is that the white line marking the cycle lane's outside edge continues but the area isn't filled in with the red stuff. It's kinda ambiguous whether it is a cycle lane or not. There are, however, double yellow lines there so, either way there should be no parking (there is a lot of illegal parking here).

So, why is this a cycle lane but not a cycle lane?

I have a theory but no evidence to back it up.

A legally constituted on-road cycle track (the Act and SIs don’t use the term “cycle lane“) is denoted at start/end by one of various permitted signs, and must be delineated along its length by one of various permitted road markings. You’ll find all the gory details about the signs and markings by doing the appropriate search at www.irishstatutebook.ie. Filtering for SIs only usually works better because, in the most part, it is they that tend to contain the nitty gritty rather than the Act.

There is no requirement whatever for a coloured top layer to be used. In fact, my understanding is that councils are moving away from use of coloured top layer because it wears very badly and ultimately becomes a puncture hazard.

Fabio

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

There is a no ambiguity about the official intention (it's a designated cycle lane), only about the implementation. Red bitumen costs a little extra and needs to be done on dry days. To do it right you need a designer who knows the issues, and councilors who care enough to fund it.

I am very fast to criticize the Council for not doing enough for active transport, but for the most part they simply struggle to understand active travel issues. Bad designs/implementations are normally not done out of malice, just a failure to understand the problems.

For instance:
They still think that pedestrians and cyclists sharing is OK.
They traditionally refused to fund physical separation, believing it to be an enforcement issue.

Some councilors and council engineers still believe provision cycle infrastructure to be "bread and circuses".
But they're not the only ones who are trying to get their head around sustainable transport, as the post above shows!
And they are changing, and they are trying.

Same for motorcyclists. They just don't really understand the issues which plague us in terms of road infrastructure - manhole covers on corner apexs or in braking zones etc (slippery as a slippy slippy thing), badly laid tar banding (like glass when wet).

cantalach

cantalach wrote: »

Most of those kids are coming from within a 3km radius. Wouldn’t it be better for all concerned if they cycled? Fitter rugby players. Less traffic and congestion outside Templehill. No carbon emissions.

Large amount from Northside (no rugby clubs on the entire northside of the city)
Also first club off the tunnel so many people are driving.


But that is not the point around someone putting in a 24/7 cycle lane down, without correct permissions.

hans aus dtschl

cantalach wrote: »

A legally constituted on-road cycle track (the Act and SIs don’t use the term “cycle lane“) is denoted at start/end by one of various permitted signs, and must be delineated along its length by one of various permitted road markings. You’ll find all the gory details about the signs and markings by doing the appropriate search at www.irishstatutebook.ie. Filtering for SIs only usually works better because, in the most part, it is they that tend to contain the nitty gritty rather than the Act.

There is no requirement whatever for a coloured top layer to be used. In fact, my understanding is that councils are moving away from use of coloured top layer because it wears very badly and ultimately becomes a puncture hazard.

I think there's no question that it needs protection.
But coloured surfaces aren't ideal as you rightly say.

cantalach

mean gene wrote: »

noticed a new cycle lane put up on the hill up from paddy the farmers -the greens in full effect wasters

Been there for at least 6-7 years, possibly longer. On a road as wide as that, and given the 50kph speed limit, I’m curious to know how the presence of that affects you.

hans aus dtschl

Deleted User wrote: »

Large amount from Northside (no rugby clubs on the entire northside of the city)
Also first club off the tunnel so many people are driving.


But that is not the point around someone putting in a 24/7 cycle lane down, without correct permissions.

Well, Old Christians, but let's not split hairs.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Large amount from Northside (no rugby clubs on the entire northside of the city)
Also first club off the tunnel so many people are driving.


But that is not the point around someone putting in a 24/7 cycle lane down, without correct permissions.

That's been part of the Cork South East Cycle Network Plan for quite some time. ROUTE CODE: CSE-U7

https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-02/Final%2520Published%2520CMA%2520Cycle%2520Network%2520Plan%2520Jan%25202017.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi-_-vbmq_tAhVKRBUIHXzID9oQFjAGegQIDxAB&usg=AOvVaw2snEbbRXhPiGozolVdS2ex

hans aus dtschl

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Well, Old Christians, but let's not split hairs.

That would be, generously, stretching the definition of the north-side


But, suffice to say. If you want your kids playing rugby (and from there) you're driving.
Even Glanmire is quicker to tunnel and Con than drive to Christians.


Back on thread topic, I would love to see that area get a community multi-sport facility for sports, to allow for other than GAA/Soccer teams to be set up.
Even all the public sports fields I can think of are Soccer or GAA only

hans aus dtschl

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

That's been part of the Cork South East Cycle Network Plan for quite some time. ROUTE CODE: CSE-U7

https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-02/Final%2520Published%2520CMA%2520Cycle%2520Network%2520Plan%2520Jan%25202017.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi-_-vbmq_tAhVKRBUIHXzID9oQFjAGegQIDxAB&usg=AOvVaw2snEbbRXhPiGozolVdS2ex

Page not found. But yeah it's CSE-U7.

Proposed Infrastructure Type: This is proposed as a primary route with proposed mandatory cycle lanes in each direction. Road widening using the existing verge may be required to provide necessary road width at some locations. One short section west of Crab Lane may not have available land for road widening so a mixed street arrangement may be more appropriate.

cantalach wrote: »

Been there for at least 6-7 years, possibly longer. On a road as wide as that, and given the 50kph speed limit, I’m curious to know how the presence of that affects you.

I'm more impressed that they only now recognise it as a "cycle lane".
Physical separation obviously makes a big difference!

I wonder what will be the effect for people who were previously tempted - but afraid - to cycle?