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Cork developments

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    #7292
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    namloc1980 wrote: »

    CBC 1 Dunkettle to City Centre via Tivoli and Kent Station

    I'm really excited by this one, personally.
    Barry aren't a bad bunch, from what I've seen, and I'm optimistic that we'll finally get a dedicated bus lane on the Tivoli DC. Would make a big difference at rush hour IMO. I'd be hopeful it ties into a Dunkettle P&R too.


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    #7293
    conjalu
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭conjalu


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    I live near you and cycle pretty much daily.
    I disagree, and have also had plenty people come to me telling me that they won't use the new infrastructure again due to near-misses on it. Cars driving on it, and parked on it, frequent lack of priority. The vast majority of cyclists I have seen have been cycling beside it. But it will be interesting to see when it's completed.
    It's a shame because it would have been extremely easy to design segregation.

    Are there really cars driving on it? From the pictures ive seen there is clearly segragation between the path and the road. you'd want to be fairly stupid or ignorant to drive along it.


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    #7294
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    I live near you and cycle pretty much daily.
    I disagree, and have also had plenty people come to me telling me that they won't use the new infrastructure again due to near-misses on it. Cars driving on it, and parked on it, frequent lack of priority. The vast majority of cyclists I have seen have been cycling beside it. But it will be interesting to see when it's completed.
    It's a shame because it would have been extremely easy to design segregation.

    Have not seen any cars driving on it or parked on it for that matter and absolutely plenty of cyclists using it. Obviously some cyclists will continue to use the road, that's obvious, but to suggest little or no cyclists use it is just plain wrong.


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    #7295
    conjalu
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭conjalu


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Have not seen any cars driving on it or parked on it for that matter and absolutely plenty of cyclists using it. Obviously some cyclists will continue to use the road, that's obvious, but to suggest little or no cyclists use it is just plain wrong.

    I only passed it once and saw 4 or 5 kids cycling down it on their followed by their parents walking behind them.

    Thats the reason these things are built, not for cycle clubs to train on...thats why you'll still see plenty of cyclists on the road...which is fine too.


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    #7296
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    conjalu wrote: »
    Are there really cars driving on it? From the pictures ive seen there is clearly segragation between the path and the road. you'd want to be fairly stupid or ignorant to drive along it.

    Yeah it provides convenient parking for people at the moment, so they're driving onto it at the garage, at the train station and by the Elm Tree, mostly for parking.

    The section by Bury's Bridge is also well used for parking, and bollards have already been put in place to try and stop that. But you'll regularly come across vehicles with all four wheels on the new infrastructure there.

    We all kinda knew that putting this in without protection at the various businesses was a ridiculously optimistic move.


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    #7297
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    conjalu wrote: »
    I only passed it once and saw 4 or 5 kids cycling down it on their followed by their parents walking behind them.

    Thats the reason these things are built, not for cycle clubs to train on...thats why you'll still see plenty of cyclists on the road...which is fine too.

    Exactly this.
    Every existing cyclist I know personally says that this infrastructure is not for them. "It's for small children cycling with parents walking". Exactly what you describe.

    It is a leisure amenity, and will be valuable to some people, even including some leisure cyclists. I do not begrudge it. But why design cycle infrastructure that some cyclists will avoid? This is not what's done in the Netherlands, for example. Cycle infrastructure there is intended for all cyclists.

    I am confident that some motorists will be irritated by cyclists remaining on the road beside the new infrastructure. "Punishment passes" are a significant possibility, given that they already occurred pretty regularly on this stretch.

    All for the price of designing it properly.


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    #7298
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Have not seen any cars driving on it or parked on it for that matter and absolutely plenty of cyclists using it. Obviously some cyclists will continue to use the road, that's obvious, but to suggest little or no cyclists use it is just plain wrong.

    With all due respect, you are putting words in my mouth, and perhaps we are at cross purposes due to you thinking I said something else.

    I said that most cyclists will continue to use the road. This is solely based on the fact that all cyclists I know have said that they will continue to use the road (small sample size of 10-15), and any that have tried the new infrastructure (a small sample size of 3, but still a significant number) have said that they intend to use the road in future, due to issues experienced.

    I have seen a wider group of cyclists I know (sample size of 50-100) avoid the infrastructure to-date. It remains to be seen whether this changes as further sections are completed.


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    #7299
    timmyjimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭timmyjimmy


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    Exactly this.
    Every existing cyclist I know personally says that this infrastructure is not for them. "It's for small children cycling with parents walking". Exactly what you describe.

    It is a leisure amenity, and will be valuable to some people, even including some leisure cyclists. I do not begrudge it. But why design cycle infrastructure that some cyclists will avoid? This is not what's done in the Netherlands, for example. Cycle infrastructure there is intended for all cyclists.

    I am confident that some motorists will be irritated by cyclists remaining on the road beside the new infrastructure. "Punishment passes" are a significant possibility, given that they already occurred pretty regularly on this stretch.

    All for the price of designing it properly.

    I have used what's open a good few times cycling from the city to Carrigtwohill. When cycling towards Carrigtwohill, I tend to cycle on the right side of the path for fear of being in a collision with a vehicle coming from a side road. I can tip along at a significant pace which means that there is a potential for a collision if a car comes across the path. More signage and priority needs to be given to cyclists on the path, its pretty useless if you have to stop for cars coming from a side road, you would be quicker staying on the main road. I beg to differ that fast cyclists won't use it, i've seen plenty on it, but time will tell if they stay using it.
    I will keep trying out what's open and the new bits that will continue to open, it's a case of learning where hazards are coming from and if its worth using.


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    #7300
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,995 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    There's a certain type of cyclist who will just never use a cycle lane.
    It's a similar type who insists on jogging on the road.


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    #7301
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    the beer revolu wrote: »
    There's a certain type of cyclist who will just never use a cycle lane.
    It's a similar type who insists on jogging on the road.

    Yes and that is certainly what the TII use as justification, when allowing the design of below-minimum-standard cycle infrastructure. And in their defence, cyclists are of course "entitled" to cycle on the road, so why wouldn't they be on the road.

    But I can counter all of that with an extremely simple riposte:
    If you follow the design standards, you end up with cycle infrastructure that is direct, has priority, has no conflicts, and confers an advantage on cyclists over the main traffic lane, then you will find nobody cycling on the main traffic lane. Ever. Because there will be no attraction.

    Where both you (and TII) may be going wrong is by thinking that existing Irish cycle infrastructure is "as good as it gets". The reality is we allow really poor designs in the best cases (like this new Glounthaune one) that a sizeable portion of cyclists will always avoid.

    With regards joggers, it's my understanding that their concerns relate to surface type. Some of them avoid running on concrete. I'm not one of them.

    So to recap: by saying "some cyclists will always stay on the road" we allow the design of unsegregated unprioritised infrastructure which some cyclists avoid by....staying on the road. There is another way, and it would have been extremely easy and cheap to implement. The logic provided in your post was used as the justification against doing so.


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    #7302
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,995 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    Yes and that is certainly what the TII use as justification, when allowing the design of below-minimum-standard cycle infrastructure. And in their defence, cyclists are of course "entitled" to cycle on the road, so why wouldn't they be on the road.

    But I can counter all of that with an extremely simple riposte:
    If you follow the design standards, you end up with cycle infrastructure that is direct, has priority, has no conflicts, and confers an advantage on cyclists over the main traffic lane, then you will find nobody cycling on the main traffic lane. Ever. Because there will be no attraction.

    Where both you (and TII) may be going wrong is by thinking that existing Irish cycle infrastructure is "as good as it gets". The reality is we allow really poor designs in the best cases (like this new Glounthaune one) that a sizeable portion of cyclists will always avoid.

    With regards joggers, it's my understanding that their concerns relate to surface type. Some of them avoid running on concrete. I'm not one of them.

    So to recap: by saying "some cyclists will always stay on the road" we allow the design of unsegregated unprioritised infrastructure which some cyclists avoid by....staying on the road. There is another way, and it would have been extremely easy and cheap to implement. The logic provided in your post was used as the justification against doing so.

    You've read an awful lot into my small observation.
    Please don't presume to know what I think and please don't assume that I am justifying anything.

    Perhaps my observation (which you agreed was true before then telling me I am wrong) is not relevant but it was no more than an observation.

    I'd appreciate if you could retract all those thoughts and words that you have attributed to me without any justification.


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    #7303
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    the beer revolu wrote: »
    You've read an awful lot into my small observation.
    Please don't presume to know what I think and please don't assume that I am justifying anything.

    Perhaps my observation (which you agreed was true before then telling me I am wrong) is not relevant but it was no more than an observation.

    I'd appreciate if you could retract all those thoughts and words that you have attributed to me without any justification.

    I didn't read heavily into it, it's a frequently-made observation. I have made the same observation myself. TII published that observation and used it as a justification. I don't presume to know what you think or assume that you are justifying anything.

    Yet again, I am explicitly saying that your observation that "some cyclists will always stay on the road rather than on cycle infrastructure" is TRUE. It is entirely true in the context that there is no cycle infrastructure being built to suit their needs.

    It is the TII cycle infrastructure manual that uses this observation as justification for not aiming to meet those users needs.

    If your motivation for raising the observation "there's a certain type of cyclist who will just never use a cycle lane" in the context of a discussion of specific cycle infrastructure design, was not to justify that design, then I wholeheartedly apologise.

    I mean, I may have completely mistaken your motives. Perhaps you'd care to set me straight as to why you brought up the point?

    Edit: If I need to be pedantic, then I also never told you that you're wrong. I said that you may be going wrong.
    It's at least equally likely that I'm wrong. That's why I'm on a message board, after all, to share my thoughts and read counter-arguments.


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    #7304
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    https://twitter.com/AlanHealy/status/1394957618242805762?s=19

    Interesting to see where they end up. Would be great if they took the Event Centre offices and Amazon take the remaining Navigation Square space. You would imagine that would allow Horgans Quay and Navigation Square to complete their office space then.


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    #7305
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    snotboogie wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/AlanHealy/status/1394957618242805762?s=19

    Interesting to see where they end up. Would be great if they took the Event Centre offices and Amazon take the remaining Navigation Square space. You would imagine that would allow Horgans Quay and Navigation Square to complete their office space then.

    Are the event centre offices opening?
    I thought it was accommodation only, until the rest of the infrastructure works were completed?


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    #7306
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    City Council have a Part 8 out for 28 new houses on Glen Avenue;
    https://consult.corkcity.ie/en/consultation/part-8-errigal-heights-glen


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    #7307
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    Are the event centre offices opening?
    I thought it was accommodation only, until the rest of the infrastructure works were completed?

    Seem to be. Before Covid kicked off again in September they were almost done: https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40050053.html

    Might be a bit more work left but not much


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    #7308
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Carey Tools are downing tools on their move to Blackash and instead are moving to the Doughcloyne Industrial Estate, beside the driving test centre.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40293686.html

    No word on the road ahead for the 25 storey apartment block but this is one roadblock sorted. Presume the main stumbling block now is the bean counters.


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    #7309
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Aparantly Facebook were looking to expand in Cork, 1000 staff outside of Oculus in a city centre location but have pulled back due to wfh and the pandemic:

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40293644.html

    Would have been great for the city


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    #7310
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40294724.html

    NSQ1 sold to Corum Asset Management for ~€60m

    NSQ3 to commence construction later this year.

    Commercial side of things really driving along the past few weeks.


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    #7311
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40294844.html

    Planning filed for 204 apartments in the vacant site beside Voxpro/Telus on the Mahon Link Rd. Not an SHD, direct to the Council. Land is zoned industrial.


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    #7312
    Mefistofelino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40294844.html

    Planning filed for 204 apartments in the vacant site beside Voxpro/Telus on the Mahon Link Rd. Not an SHD, direct to the Council. Land is zoned industrial.

    As mentioned further up the page, the Council previously refused a change of zoning from Industrial to Residential for part of JCDs site next door to this.

    If it goes ahead, I wonder if the selling agents will mention the Cork Main Drainage header tank is the nearest neighbour?


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    #7313
    Mav11
    Registered Users Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭Mav11


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40294844.html

    Planning filed for 204 apartments in the vacant site beside Voxpro/Telus on the Mahon Link Rd. Not an SHD, direct to the Council. Land is zoned industrial.

    I wonder why they chose not to go down the SHD route? It qualifies.

    Edit*: I see the reason, zoning!


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    #7314
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Mefistofelino wrote: »
    If it goes ahead, I wonder if the selling agents will mention the Cork Main Drainage header tank is the nearest neighbour?

    And a field that hosts regular dog baiting


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    #7315
    beer enigma
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭beer enigma


    Mefistofelino wrote: »
    It was (and still may be) a JCD site. I think they parked it while they were working on Albert Quay and moving on to the Sextant as they only seem to deal with one large project at a time. With the Sextant on the long finger, maybe they are turning their attention back to this.
    The original plan was for three office blocks, IIRC and JCD went back to the Council for permission to change one block to apartments, which was rejected.

    Thanks, seems to be progressing as there's some form of steelwork going up


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    #7316
    Mefistofelino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    TheChizler wrote: »
    And a field that hosts regular dog baiting

    "Pet-friendly facilities, with access to local sporting events"?


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    #7317
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40294724.html

    NSQ1 sold to Corum Asset Management for ~€60m

    NSQ3 to commence construction later this year.

    Commercial side of things really driving along the past few weeks.

    That's surprising. Great vote of confidence after the bad news with Facebook yesterday.


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    #7318
    Treehelpplease
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    That news ended up not being what was reported


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    #7319
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Treehelpplease wrote: »
    That news ended up not being what was reported

    Regarding Navigation Square 1 being purchased? Have any links? Did a search but all the coverage seems the same.


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    #7320
    rounders
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭rounders


    who_me wrote: »
    Regarding Navigation Square 1 being purchased? Have any links? Did a search but all the coverage seems the same.

    They're talking about the claims Fb were looking for a office in Cork. FB denied the claim

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/facebook-says-no-plans-to-add-office-in-cork-1.4570575


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    #7321
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    rounders wrote: »
    They're talking about the claims Fb were looking for a office in Cork. FB denied the claim

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/facebook-says-no-plans-to-add-office-in-cork-1.4570575

    Ah, thanks for the clarification.


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