Cork developments

Apogee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469173#Comment_118469173

Scaled back plans for Creamfields site going back to ABP:

The proposed development consists of 609 residential dwellings, 561 apartments and 48 townhouse apartments in a mix of one, two, three and four-bed units arranged in 12 buildings with a standalone coffee kiosk.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40820319.html

Apogee

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30855582.html

Examiner reporting (not available online) that ABP have approved a planned increase of 413 apartments to 437 for above development. Also, plans for 103 bed aparthotel in South Terrace:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40820628.html

Apogee

Planning OKed for 16 storey office block on Sextant site:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-40825988.html

airy fairy

What are they putting into all the offices that are being built?

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118765419#Comment_118765419

In fairness they have got Penrose Dock across the river 90% full within a year of opening during a pandemic.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118765419#Comment_118765419

JCD’s last office development (Penrose Dock) has Qualcomm, Grant Thornton, Ibec, Matheson, Varonis, Cadence, Remitly, Sophos, Cloudera, Minelab, CH Robinson and others

JCD are excellent at filling new office space. 90% occupancy at Penrose Dock which finished after Navigation Square which has ~30% occupancy by my estimate. Horgan’s Quay isn’t full either.

whisky_galore

Boring looking box. Could be Anywhere Europe.

2Beamzplz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118766283#Comment_118766283

Would you rather they built it in the shape of a potato instead?

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118768251#Comment_118768251

To be fair, the place is very glass box looking. You only have to look at Connolly hall and see that 'modern' buildings are not all visually nice.

If it was a punter looking for planning for a sole house, you'd have to abide by surrounding structures or those that were knocked to provide the area with a resemblance of what was.

Apogee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722615#Comment_118722615

More movement on Creamfields/CMP site. Planning app for 4/7 storey primary care centre gone to CCC:

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40825946.html

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118768346#Comment_118768346

Like the Elysian? R&H Hall? The abandoned warehouses? The tool shop? The pub? Look at the site on Google maps from 2009, the area was a complete mish mash of different land uses and dereliction. No doubt the south docks developments are a bit bland and samey, both in terms of use and design, especially compared to the North Docks but it’s a massive improvement on what was there before. I mean take the quintessential glass box One Albert Quay and compare it to what was there before:

Albert Quay in 2011

Albert Quay in 2021:

DylanQuestion

There is a lot of glass in the Docklands but it's mostly just the floor to ceiling height windows make them look like they're mostly glass boxes. Navigation Square isn't a glass box, it just has big windows, especially at the front. The sides are stone/concrete. 2/3 Horgan's Quay, currently being built, is going to be very similar to Navigation Square. Penrose Dock and the Lapp's Quay buildings are mostly stone and cladding. 1 Station Square (across from The Dean - which is also cladding) is going to be mostly dark brick when it's built. The Horgan's Quay apartments (1 Waterfront Square and 1 Station Square) are mostly buff brick, with white render on the hidden elevation of Railway Street. One Albert Quay is probably our only glass box, and I guess No. 1 Horgan's Quay. The Prism, Custom House Quay and the new Albert Quay tower are mostly glass, though, I will admit. However, more in the city centre, 85 South Mall and The Capitol are all mostly stone.

Almost all of the developments also include at least one retained building or feature. One Albert Quay has a really nice stone wall facing Albert House (https://goo.gl/maps/WumU9jupA6BiGupj6). Navigation Square retained Navigation House's facade and is retaining the (https://goo.gl/maps/85hr5Tq7VYFAKSxX6) Albert Road station walls for NSQ3. Penrose Dock has the steampacket building, The Dean has the Carriage Sheds, the Horgan's Quay offices have the Georgian house and Horgan's Quay apartments have the old house. Even Custom House Quay's tower will have the various sheds and houses retained. Those are the types of thing when you are on the ground walking around, not neccessarily the high up walls of glass. Kennedy Quay will have Odlums, a mixture of stone and glass buildings and probably other brick and concrete elements retained around the site

iColdFusion

Its not an accident they are all glass boxes, they need to get natural daylight levels into deep open plan office spaces to reduce energy usage from lighting for one while the glass will be designed to reflect back solar gain to keep air conditioning usage down.

Most office blocks are just a steel frame anyway so they don't need external walls for support structure and might as well just go all glass as they don't need openable windows either, keeps the window cleaners in business I guess 😄

Apogee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152332#Comment_118152332

ABP have rejected this:

In making its decision, the planning board said it considered that the development as proposed “results in a poor design concept that is substandard in its form and layout due to the lack of sufficient high-quality, appropriately landscaped, usable open spaces, which are available for a mix of active and passive uses”.

As a result, the board said it considered that the proposed development represented over-development of the site and “would lead to conditions injurious to the residential amenities of future occupants” and would contravene the city development plan.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40829777.html:

Apogee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118686899#Comment_118686899

Perhaps unsurprisingly, this has been appealed to ABP:

Plans for a major new port facility on the site of the former Irish Fertiliser Industries plant at Marino Point in Cork Harbour have been put on hold following objections from local residents.

Two appeals have been lodged with An Bord Pleanála against the recent decision of Cork County Council to grant planning permission for the construction of an agricultural fertiliser facility and development of the existing jetty at Marino Point to facilitate cargo vessels. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40830116.html

iColdFusion

A good chance anything not already on site in Cork will be shelved for the short to medium term, material costs going insane and the EU just banned Russian iron and steel imports worth 3.3billion a year to them, bound to drive up prices on top of everything else so projects that made sense even 6 months ago don't now.

snotboogie

I wonder if that is driving the slow pace at the prism?

ofcork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795609#Comment_118795609

Seems to be nothing happening there everyday i pass.

opus

Another supermarket for Douglas - Lidl granted permission for Douglas supermarket and apartments

chalkitdown1

Just what Douglas needs, another big supermarket nestled in between Dunnes and Aldi and a 2 minute walk from M&S and a 4 minute walk from the biggest Tesco in Cork. Brilliant stuff. Presumably another big car park coming with it?

The place is almost beyond saving at this point. Traffic clogged nightmare wil be its lasting legacy. The whole area is basically a massive car park.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826919#Comment_118826919

Yeah tend to agree. Should have been a lovely little village feel to it with nice cafe's restaurants and shops, it's getting more and more like Mahon point.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828057#Comment_118828057

The council refused permission for it, it was An Bord Pleanala that overturned that decision.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828057#Comment_118828057

In fairness it seems the City Council is trying to change things and refused permission for this. However appeal to ABP was successful which the Council challenged. Unfortunately the damage has been done by years of mismanagement and bad development by the County Council.

I grew up in Douglas but don't live there anymore. When I do go there it still strikes me each time what a horribly developed traffic hole it has become.

the beer revolu

I'm not sure that another supermarket will increase traffic - I suspect that there will be much the same traffic, now spread over an extra area.

I think Douglas has been a soulless shlthole with notions for decades, now. I don't see what one more supermarket will do,anymore than one new fast food outlet would do. It's been an outdoor mall for years now.

Shedite27

It started off with good intentions. When I grew up there in the 80's we had the big shopping centre (Quinnsworth) and both sides of the village seemed to co-exist alongside it, even over to Dailys and the video shop next door. The relief road was great at the start to take traffic away from it, and the cinema was the first I remember outside of town.

Since then though, one by one all the little butchers, bakeries etc on east and west village stopped being used as the locals went to Tesco/Dunnes, and there's been nothing really to take their place on the high streets. Eco's is nice, as is 12 tables, and South County is decent for pints. It's just a pity there's always so much traffic coming through Douglas to get to Douglas Court, Tesco etc.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829569#Comment_118829569

The small shops and butchers all disappeared because there was no where to park. Go back 30/40 years and you had cars parked along the west village… once that was removed the post office and shops were to difficult to get to. That’s why Daily’s became popular at the time you could easily get parking outside the door.

Even in the east village you could easily find parking and pop into centra, butchers or KC’s. But with the increase in housing and population in Douglas suburbs it was always going to change.

iColdFusion

Douglas really got screwed over with its connections to the South ring and large commercial developments allowed, just look at how well Wilton works to see how bad Douglas is, Carrigaline isn't far off with all the traffic funneled down its main street too.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830139#Comment_118830139

Wilton is fine if you're driving, really unfriendly if you're trying to get there by foot or bike. You take your life in your hands trying to cross the dual carriageway by the roundabout, and have to go a good distance out of your way to use a pedestrian crossing. At least Douglas has controlled crossings in a direct path from the city across (slightly) narrower roads, and traffic slows cars down so you're able to get through relatively easily on a bike.

I wonder was the problem the council refusing permission on the basis of it being visually big, which is subjective and easily dismissable by pointing out the shopping centre(s). ABP just needed to determine that wasn't a good reason, rather than counter any of the other points that could be made against the development.

snotboogie

Commercial dereliction in Douglas is massively overstated. It was brutal about 5 years ago but the main street has only 3 vacant units out of 25 total, one of which is the subject of an ongoing planning permission and another was recently knocked and seems to be under construction?

There are dozens of small business around Douglas, they just tend to be restaurants, pubs, hairdressers and cosmetic rather than butchers and grocers but that’s the situation everywhere, even in the city centre.

There is kind of a ridiculous nostalgia around “the village” too, according to Wikipedia Douglas has a population of nearly 30k people, that’s a considerably larger population than Kilkenny. It’s in no way a village and expecting it to develop like one is unrealistic.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830087#Comment_118830087

I think you've hit the nail on the head in a kinda roundabout way.

The problem with Douglas is that virtually no one ever walks anywhere despite 1000s of people living within minutes walk from Douglas village.

I was lambasted and it was suggested that I was out of touch with reality when I suggested that someone on the Well Road could do their shopping on foot.

No one walks to Douglas and no one walks around Douglas except teenagers.