Cork developments

whisky_galore

The constituents of CIE can barely coordinate with each other, let alone with private operators. Welcome to Ireland, enjoy your stay.

airy fairy

One of the locations mentioned that they should move to is Coburg street? Lower Glanimre road? Are they having a laugh or did some transition year student do a project on bus stops, and pull these names out of a bag?

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021949#Comment_119021949

Equally to maintain a second regular lane, and a continuous lane of parking which doesn't seem to have been considered at all.

Frostybrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022001#Comment_119022001

Easy for a young child to fall through the railings when an adult takes their eye off the ball. Which has happened on that quay. BE Dublin bound buses go via Michael Collins bridge. The main point is that Patrick's Quay was never suitable for a long distance coach stop for a multitude of reasons.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022007#Comment_119022007

The O'Callaghan's site on Andersons quay could be a potential site for a coach terminus. Similar to the private bus terminus in Galway. Across the road from the bus station and with in easy access of main routes.

Pen Rua

Evening Echo has a little more information

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40866356.html

"The plans will see West Cork Connects move to Anderson Quay, Aircoach to Lower Glanmire Street while Cobh Connects is to remain at a single bus bay to be kept along Patrick’s Quay."

No mention of where Citylink, M9 Express and other operators will end up.

West Cork Connects director says their schedule is designed so that their buses come in to sync up with the Aircoach to Dublin. Now with their buses landing on Anderson Quay, and Aircoach departing from Lower Glanmire Street (Road?), he asserts it will be a nuisance for passengers and is suggesting they won't launch their planned Kinsale route as a result.

Frequent user of the Citylink to head back to Galway. St Patrick's Quay was always annoying to navigate through, especially when you had a bunch of luggage, particularly when there's a group trying to board a bus and they decide to take up the entire width of the foot path.

On the return, it was generally ok as it has been walking distance from where I have lived in Cork over the years. Moving buses out to Lower Glanmire Road or similar will probably mean we would need a taxi to get out there and back (especially with luggage) which just adds cost.

The actual pavement is lethal, too. The amount of times I've almost tripped is uncountable. A friend visited in Cork, tripped and face planted onto the pavement within minutes of arrival.

Galway's private bus station seemed to work well, until the operators jacked up prices and now there's a dispute with the bus operators and they're not using the station (not sure if this has since been resolved).

I know when works were being done on St Patrick's Quay, the buses were relocated to Alfred Street. Google Maps suggests a bunch of bus bays still there, plus car parking spaces.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022584#Comment_119022584

Is the planned Lower Glanmire Road stop not the plaza across from Leisureplex/Alfred Street?

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022893#Comment_119022893

Exactly. It's the plaza with the TFI Bikes docking station, next to Moody's and the Leisureplex.

Honestly, I can't understand any of the caterwauling about this change. Patrick's Quay is a dump of a bus stop, unsafe, and a traffic nightmare. All of the new alternative locations at least have a dedicated bus bay and a shelter, so passengers at least have a chance of staying dry while waiting in inclement weather.

As for transfer passengers, seriously? How many people actually transfer between bus services? I can't imagine it being that many. Most of these services are point-to-point operators who never once before bothered about connecting passengers. To wheel out that excuse now is just lazy in my eyes.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119024225#Comment_119024225

I'd agree that Patrick's quay as it currently is isn't ideal - but just getting rid of one of the busiest public transport hubs in cork without a decent alternative is a bit crap really -

The bus operators know Alfred street ,- they were there when Patrick's quay was dug up about 3 ago -that was the original proposal to go there ...

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021950#Comment_119021950

Problem is that BÉ own the bus station and pay for its upkeep and receive no subsidy explicitly for that purpose. If you allow private operators to use the bus station (a fine idea) then somebody needs to be responsible for the station. BÉ would have no incentive to facilitate their direct competitors. The correct solution of course is the same solution for privatisation everywhere: the government should own the network (stations, stops, timetable, potentially the buses), the private operator should own the supplied asset (drivers, potentially the buses).

It's the same reason the bus and train aren't integrated in Cork: bus competes with train. It's terrible for the end user.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022029#Comment_119022029

They're directed to compete. What looks like incompetence is actually bad design on the part of the government. You'll find the people in the constituent parts of CIE have been very frustrated by this, down through the years. Many of the most recent retirees worked together in the original CIE and were prised apart and told by the government to directly compete against each other.

Ceramic

The problem is you can’t half open a public transit system. The bus stations should be transferred to the NTA / TFI as national infrastructure. The long distance bus network isn’t focused on CIE anymore, a high % of it is private operators. The result of that is dumping bus stop issues onto the City Councils and into public spaces.

It’s another example of inability to foresee consequences and poor planning.

This is very much a Department of Transport and TFI issue.

You should be able to go to a bus station and find all the long distance bus routes. It also opens up commercial opportunities, better facilities, interchange with other modes, parking, traffic optimisation, accessible infrastructure for people with mobility issues etc etc etc

hans aus dtschl

That's exactly what it is.

It's not incompetence on the part of CIE at all, rather it's incompetence on the part of the Department and TFI/NTA.

It's an example of privatisation done poorly. Likely because public transport wasn't a priority for many governments until more recently.

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119024325#Comment_119024325

Just on that note. Yes a central hub is a good idea in principle. However, such a central coach station should not just keep all coach operators in aone single location, but also provide safe drop-off areas, waiting areas, and in an ideal world, even some ticket counters and maybe a concession or two. Patrick's Quay offers nothing of that sort. At least with the new distributed scheme, there'll be some semblance of infrastructure.

To be brutally honest, I think most of those complaining, outside of this thread af least, are doing so because A) they don't like change and B) because they now can't drive onto the sidewalk anymore to drop people off, something I witnessed more than once when l was still catching buses to Dublin there myself.

markodaly

The bus stations should be transferred to the NTA / TFI as national infrastructure. 

This x1000

This way it is the NTA who is responsible for the upkeep and BE and other private operators can use it, once they pay a reasonable small fee.

That makes sense, so it will never happen LOL

markodaly

Patricks Quay was always a temporary location as far as I recall. Anyone who thinks it was a good location needs their heads examined.

PreCocious

Patrick's Quay suffered from a total lack of shelter, no amenities and the desire of mummies and daddies to park in the bus bay when waiting for the bus, which led to the buses taking up a traffic lane.

One of the comments was about people being attacked if/when moving between buses (how many people connect into/out of these services ?) . What do people think will happen when the bus gets to its destination - these people who are fearful of their lives in Cork are suddenly in the middle of Dublin (or landing in some other city) and happy as Larry ?

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027548#Comment_119027548

You're right - it's pretty crap - but there's no co-ordinated replacement... At all ..

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021968#Comment_119021968

Danger of falling into the river ? How exactly it’s a mostly closed off quay or at least it is up where the buses park.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027963#Comment_119027963

I presume Frostybrew was referring to the low railings that scream, “why stand waiting when you can sit on me?”

Ceramic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949098#Comment_118949098

There's a lot of that kind of stuff. Seems we don't really have any scope in development here for really landmark buildings. Anything unusual has the planners and objectors in a frenzy. Cork would also want to be a little careful that it doesn't just get a load of bland because it's not a super-prime location, being a relatively smaller city, and it will be about 'any development' rather than 'interesting development'

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027925#Comment_119027925

How? It was heavily publicised in newspapers and online when the public consultation was open (July 14th 2020 to September 11th 2020). The webpage for the consultation explicitly says coach parking would be moving and it's clearly visible in all of the drawings

Markcheese

Well, the intial plan was for all the buses to go to Alfred street , fine , then it was pointed out there aren't enough bus bays at Alfred street - and there were objections from residents over there about noise from the night buses - , and issues over street lighting -

So the next plan ( from a couple of weeks ago) was to split the buses up - which won't suit connections ...

And remember the time frame for the work STARTING was between late 21 and sometime in 2023...

ofcork

I used to be afraid of falling in the river on patricks quay years ago when the no 12 used to stop there!On another note 3rd tower crane gone up in blackpool on cfield site.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119028856#Comment_119028856

I'm not saying you're fully wrong, but the original drawings show "New Coach Parking" on Anderson Quay and Lower Glanmire Road, with zero mention of Alfred Street (that is mentioned on the website, which says "Relocate some of the existing coach parking facilities to Anderson’s Quay, Lower Glanmire Road and Alfred Street") so it was always known they would be going to the three locations. Maybe the original pre-plan shown to the operators and residents was just Alfred Street, but the official plans published in summer 2020 showed the three new locations. Outside of for disabled users (which I don't think I have seen anyone mention?), I see zero issue with them not being right next to eachother. The Anderson Quay stop is 250m from the Lower Glanmire Road stop (only needing to cross the road once, which is a high quality, 10m crossing. Alfred Street is another 70m from the Lower Glanmire Road stop (or 300m if you go straight from Anderson Quay to Alfred Street, with one crossing), connected by a big plaza and one small pedestrian crossing. It's not like people are being asked to walk from the top of Patrick Street to Western Road or something. If onward connections are so important for these businesses (something I have never heard of, but I know little about it so I could be completely wrong), I'm sure they can work out scheduling to allow for appropriate time for people to walk the 70m-300m (i.e. Bean & Leaf on Grand Parade to the GPO, or the length of MacCurtain St)

Frostybrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027963#Comment_119027963

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119028158#Comment_119028158

There were large gaps in those railings. A three year old boy went through them and fell into the Lee back in 2016. He fell five metres as the tide was out. Thankfully he was saved by a passerby and the emergency services. The railings have been made safer since that incident, but still not ideal.

The Andersons quay being too far from connections argument doesn't hold water. The bus station is directly across the road with services to all parts of the country, and is now much more accessible and closer than when West Cork Connect was stopping on Patrick's Quay.

I have a feeling the real reason the owner of WCC is kicking up such a stink over the move, is due to problems with anti social behaviour on Andersons Quay; which may have a greater impact on patronage than issues with connecting services. It's something they can't admit publicly as the issues are rightly or wrongly related to the homeless shelter, and the vulnerable people who use the shelter's services.

who_me

Yeah, living on Patrick's Quay so very interested in this argument.

The current location is probably very convenient for passengers; arriving right in the city centre, and it's good to have safety in numbers - while violent crime isn't a huge issue it is an issue (I've been attacked late at night walking along that quay). Having the bus stops there has probably made the quay safer for residents too.

But yeah, there are problems. The paths are too narrow and it results in lots of people walking on the street (or crossing the street between buses!) to get around them. No facilities or shelter. Too many buses for the location (I've seen up to 16 at a time on the quay, some double-parked). Add on those parking and waiting (because of lack of shelter) before dropping off, and you get some horrible traffic problems.

If everything could be accommodated between Patrick's bridge and Michael Collins' bridge it'd be better than moving just some of them to Alfred St. But I think better again would be to use some of the land on Horgan's Quay for a large shared stop with facilities, ideally with a free, frequent shuttle bus to & from Patrick St / Merchant's Quay. Plenty space on Horgan's Quay for parking, waiting and any facilities, still very central, and right next to the train station for connections.

Apogee

More tenants for Penrose Dock - Flynn seems to be putting his money where his mouth is on renewables

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40870871.html

Examiner also reporting that ABP require further modification of the plans for 220 bed student apartments at Top Car Garage/Victoria Cross (not online).

More progress on Prism site courtesy of Cork Crane Count

https://twitter.com/CorkCraneCount/status/1525087890140803074

daithi7

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40873139.html

Dodgy dealings!?!

Apogee

Source: https://www.broadsheet.ie/2022/05/18/thursdays-papers-133/

Mav11

The cast iron pillars to be retained and exposed, were these inside the building?