Cork developments

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878222#Comment_119878222

??

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878704#Comment_119878704

Oh dear.

There was just a poster getting rather upset because other posters didn't agree with them.

Post has since been deleted/edited.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880574#Comment_119880574

I did edit my post to stick more to the point made in the article I linked to in it. I'm not sure where you got the idea I was upset. I said I was not going to post any further on the subject as I'd already made the point I wanted to about the need for green space in the area and had nothing further to add. I'm fairly comfortable with the idea that some people don't agree with me. I also found your "oh dear" comment a bit confusing. Are you upset about something yourself? Is it that there is a lack of green space in the city centre near the sites under discussion or are you disappointed by the delay in more high rise developments going in? Surely you must agree that just keeping the current numbers of derelict/underused boarded up sites in the area does very little for the city.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880661#Comment_119880661

My "oh dear", was, as I said, merely a reaction to a poster getting, what I thought, was obviously upset that others disagreed with them. Perhaps I misread but as the post has been edited, who can judge?

BTW, I'm all for less deriliction and more green spaces and biodiversity in the city, as you ask.

I am also in favour of more dense residential developments - this may well include high rise developments.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878691#Comment_119878691

Where then? I can’t see anywhere else with room for a park and ride. It might particularly suit commuters from Glanmire / Ballinglanna.

TheChizler

Planning permission refused for the Marina Market's application for change of use and expansion. Not good. Main reason given was the danger of vehicular traffic and port traffic on Kennedy Quay. Pretty much directed to cease operations.

I wonder will they reapply just for retention? They still can appeal to ABP. Long term the port will be gone, an obvious thing for the port and council to do is to close it to non-port traffic now.

JackieChang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896470#Comment_119896470

I agree with them that it's sort of a dodgy area for so many people to be in. Didn't a woman drive into the water and die this year?

However I think shutting the entire place down is a bit extreme. Is there anything to be done to make the place safer? Like restrict access from the dock side.

rebs23

Port of Cork and Doyle Shipping Group were objecting. Really need to force the issue now about the use of the Docklands as this is the second instance of Port users objecting to the City Centre Docklands changing to more public uses. The objection to the O'Callaghan Development nearby as similar references to giving priority to heavy goods vehicles using the roads, similar to the objection to the Marina Market.

City Council needs to stand up to the Port and these low value uses of land so close to the city centre which continue to cause congestion and pollution in the city centre. The Port needs to be forced out now so we can all avail of this great parcel of land. Time for congestion charges along these roads for heavy goods vehicles.

I also wonder why the Port is docking timber so close to the city centre in the last year? or fishing boats fixing nets? Has it anything to increasing the value of the "ransom strip"?

Chris_5339762

Closing the Marina Market, one of Corks biggest recent success stories and a rare example of us actually doing something well, would be absolutely, catastrophically stupid and a terrible indictment on the city as a whole. What the hell are they playing at. Tell the port to take a hike.

airy fairy

If it's safety they're worried about, then stop access from the port side and open up areas on the other side for parking. The area is massively underdeveloped as it is.

Typical the big boys get their way.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881241#Comment_119881241

I think Little Island will be expanded significantly and made a P&R, and that Tivoli might be a "normal" stop.

Tony Polster

Is it Fianna Fail's Tom Coughlan runs the Marina Market?

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907971#Comment_119907971

He's been called a hell of a lot worse!

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899237#Comment_119899237

To be fair, it's still a working port. Where else would you get parking on an open quayside, cranes and heavy lorries?

They should have thought of that before chancing their arm opening a market there.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907616#Comment_119907616

If you look at the map of the proposed upgrade, it is shown a new P&R station, "Dunkettle", located between Little Island and Tivoli.

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-an-bord-pleanala-application-cork-rail-network-upgrade-5909582-Nov2022/

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909932#Comment_119909932

Well if you can drive and access that area, why not chance it, would be the answer. Besides, access can be got from the other side of the market. Plenty derelict buildings around that could host parking. Personally I hate driving up there and do think it's mental to allow public up that side anyway.

whisky_galore

Probably a blind eye was turned before but such is the volume of people now, it cannot be ignored. Clueless adults and kids gowling around a port ffs. Only a matter of time before something happens.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910007#Comment_119910007

What's gowling?

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909962#Comment_119909962

Thanks. My reason for not trusting that drawing is that I remember the first iteration I saw of it, at around the turn of the millennium, when there was still space at Dunkettle, and before the NRA objected and got it shut down.

Thinking about it logically, a P&R needs to be to the North East of the Interchange.

North West is difficult to reach for M8 traffic, South West doesn't have any room, South East is too far from the rail line. What space is to the North East is either North Esk container depot (too near Little Island to make any sense), or the North Esk business park, which would be a large CPO of industrial land from multiple owners. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it doesn't look likely to me, with Little Island readily available and being upgraded, 1.5km (2 mins drive) away.

Edit: North Esk is too close because the train will hardly have picked up any speed at all before it's stopping again. The end-users gained will be minimal, and the cost would be reasonably significant. Little Island isn't currently oversubscribed, the way Glounthaune is. Why spend so much money for no real gain?

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910418#Comment_119910418

I see where you're coming from but frequent rail transport systems particularly the Cork to Glounthaune section operate under different parameters:

1. The P&R needs to be on the railway line to encourage people to use it. Commuters will not be encouraged to use the system if the have to walk some distance from parking to the tram / train.
2. If you look at the DART, Luas or indeed any other frequent rail transport system stations are close together. With the Dart or Luas distance is usually 1 minute between stations. If you stand a a Luas or DART stop you can generally see the stations upline or / and downline from where you are standing. Getting up to speed is not an issue with electrified systems that is why I'm hoping that this section will at least be electrified.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910275#Comment_119910275

Acting the gowl. You’re clearly not from Limerick anyway :)

Tony Polster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907971#Comment_119907971

Hmmmm I'm not surprised there's issues here so. Tom tends to have his own way of doing things.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910969#Comment_119910969

Agreed on all points but Little Island already has a lot of car parking immediately at the station platforms, and it's not filling up. I don't see how spending a good few million euro to allow some M8 commuters to drive 2 minutes fewer each way would be value-for money.

There's no problem with the points you make, but let's agree that we're really talking about a P&R ONLY: The available area of North Esk is not zoned for any kind of development density, there's no space on Factory Hill for "sustainable" housing and North Esk station would be no more attractive to Little Island commuters either realistically.

On top of that the Ballinglanna schemes will all have direct bus access, so they won't mind either the 2 mins drive, 2 mins cycle, or the additional bus stop.

What you'd really like from a Dunkettle P&R is to try and either catch some Glanmire commuters, or M8 commuters. North Esk is no more attractive than Little Island, to either. I say this as someone who uses the line, and uses Little Island station!

For me, the next low-hanging fruit would be an upgrade of Little Island, and put the P&R on the Easternmost part of Tivoli, right by the Dunkettle roundabout. Then make the dual carriageway single lane (plus bus lane) and try and tempt people onto a P&R there. But that's the "Tivoli" stop, not "Dunkettle". Or else maybe if you could develop North Esk with some density, and give it a footbridge into Little Island maybe: this would give rent-roll for IÉ too. But another surface car park 1.5km from the previous one that's not filling up? I Just don't see the value.

So that's why, even with electrification, I don't see Dunkettle being in the near future. Maybe if Little Island starts filling up?

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912380#Comment_119912380

We'll have to wait and see. The application for the Glouthaune to Midelton section is up on the APB site. I expect that the Cork to Glounthaune section will follow shortly with more details of the P&R.

https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/315087

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899237#Comment_119899237

While it is a success story, I think it's a bit rich to lash changes in, and then apply for retention. Especially as the people involved should know a lot better.

The safety parking and access issues are solvable, if the organisers get their heads togther and figure it out. But that should be thought about up front. It's a working port with wide open quays. They should have the parking at the other side, and have access from the city directed the other way also, with a frequent bus route.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914116#Comment_119914116

Yep, if you'd written that a year ago I'd have laughed at you, but right now we're seeing more investment in rail than I'd seen in 20 years. It's a great thing. Long may it continue.

Chris_5339762

Agreed there but we still haven't laid a single metre of NEW railway line since what, the foundation of the state?

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916123#Comment_119916123

Luas tracks?

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916123#Comment_119916123

Not true.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914379#Comment_119914379

Yet another example of 'rules are for other people, not me' that we see all too often.