Cork developments

chalkitdown1

A lot of historic derelict buildings in our centre. Be a shame to see them go. It'd be an especially big blow to our drug addict community.

questionmark?

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

A lot of historic derelict buildings in our centre. Be a shame to see them go. It'd be an especially big blow to our drug addict community.

But the derelict buildings add such character and anything over one storey would ruin the views. Pretty sure I quoted an Taisce there!

whisky_galore

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

A lot of historic derelict buildings in our centre. Be a shame to see them go. It'd be an especially big blow to our drug addict community.

This country can't preserve historic buildings and create a pretty looking city centre like Prague or Warsaw, we just have shabby looking old buildings next to ugly modern ones.

igCorcaigh

Walking down Barrack Street looking across the river is a terrible eyesore and has been for years.

Those apartments on Barrack Street opposite the pharmacy look awful too.

Markcheese

questionmark? wrote: »

But the derelict buildings add such character and anything over one storey would ruin the views. Pretty sure I quoted an Taisce there!

Pretty sure you didn't, an taisce don't make planning policy and they can't block planning for anywhere.. All they can do is refer things to ABP..

marno21

Happy Christmas to all.

Any predictions for 2019? I think we'll see some activity pickup and some shifts in direction when the CMATS is published. It'll finally be a blueprint on how the city will be developed over the next 20 years and if there is real will to get the light rail corridor up and running it'll lay down a corridor onto which the most prime development access wise can be located.

It's been a great year for our great city and hopefully 2019 is the same.

EnzoScifo

questionmark? wrote: »

Do you want to explain that statement?

The revised planning has large dead frontage on to South Main Street as well as the cancellation of the cinema and most of the retail units in favour of office and student accomodation.

The site has gone from one of regeneration of the historic core and much unloved street to somewhere that will be dead after 6pm most nights of the week.

Development for the sake of development is never the answer and we have only one chance to improve South Main Street. It shouldn't be squandered.

It is the oldest street in the City and turning it into a glorified loading bay for the events centre would be terrible.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

marno21 wrote: »

Happy Christmas to all.

Any predictions for 2019? I think we'll see some activity pickup and some shifts in direction when the CMATS is published. It'll finally be a blueprint on how the city will be developed over the next 20 years and if there is real will to get the light rail corridor up and running it'll lay down a corridor onto which the most prime development access wise can be located.

It's been a great year for our great city and hopefully 2019 is the same.

Yes, CMATS is a key part of Cork's future so it really can't come any sooner. We can't put up with anymore delays. Hopefully we see it in January. The current state of our public transport is very poor.

I hope we also see some real work starting on the events centre in 2019 also, along with the other developments lined up.

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

Happy Christmas to all.

Any predictions for 2019? I think we'll see some activity pickup and some shifts in direction when the CMATS is published. It'll finally be a blueprint on how the city will be developed over the next 20 years and if there is real will to get the light rail corridor up and running it'll lay down a corridor onto which the most prime development access wise can be located.

It's been a great year for our great city and hopefully 2019 is the same.

I was worried up until about October that nothing had started in 2018. The fact that three major developments kicked off in Q4 was a major turnaround for the city. I will be very interested to see if there will be a start made on any high density residential in Cork this year, I don't think we'll see a start in 2019 for the real major ones in the docklands but we may see one in Douglas. Hopefully we start to see further movement on the hotels. The office take up will be interesting too. I predict the crane count creeping up over 10 (for the first time ever?) by December next year. As for the actual developments:

Planning/Proposals: The 40 storey, the Carey's tools site, Kennedy Quay/Odlums Building, Tedcastle site and the Ford site

Start Construction: Jacobs Island, The Prism, The Events Centre, Sullivan's Quay, Parnell Place Hotel, The Crows Nest, Coca Cola site

2019 has the potential to easily surpass 2018. However we are still about four to five years off the potential peak and Cork needs a clear run without economic disruption to get there. I'm not sure that we will be that lucky. In the mid 2020's you could have the Events Centre open, four major Docklands office developments open (1AQ, Navigation Sq, Penrose Dock and Horgan's Quay) with over 10,000 people working in the area along with The Prism and Sullivans Quay already changing the skyline. At the same time you could have the 40 storey along with four or five other major docklands developments under construction, the luas under construction and the North Ring under construction.

rebs23

Thanks snootboogie for all your posts during the year, very insightful and up to date. As you say 2019 could be a great yea once the Events Centre gets through the planning process. Hopefully the concerns lodged in the observations can be easily dealt with and we don't have another major project in Cork objected to.

questionmark?

Markcheese wrote: »

Pretty sure you didn't, an taisce don't make planning policy and they can't block planning for anywhere.. All they can do is refer things to ABP..

Wow. It was tongue in cheek due to An Taisce's habit of objecting to so much. I hope you get a sense of humour for Christmas.

EdgeCase

I think a lot of this will depend on how international factors pan out.

If Brexit is a complete mess for UK companies you could see quite a flood of mid sized investments into Cork as companies need to maintain EU presence.

On the other side of it, Brexit and/or a Trump trade war could trigger a global financial crisis in 2019, so it's not all that certain if we're going to benefit from very strong growth for the next 5+ years. There are a few economic icebergs.

I don't think Brexit will impact big scale city developments that dramatically. It's negative impacts will be felt by Irish agriculture and some Irish SMEs, who are very UK market oriented. That's not very pleasant but it's also not the kind of investor driving these big scale developments.

You could see negative impacts on some services companies that are serving the UK market though. I'm thinking things like call centres and financial services back office etc. That slack might be taken up by companies needing EU presence but there'll still be turmoil for some people caught in the middle.

What could be problematic though is any big slump in retail.

It's just not really clear that we've plain sailing ahead but it's the same all over the world. Nothings ever absolutely certain.

snotboogie

Q1 Update


Under Construction

Navigation Square: An OCP four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3,000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19' Clearstream to be the anchor client. Phase 2 commenced in Sept 2018.




85-86 South Mall: JCD's 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18' KPMG to be anchor client and Forcepoint taking the remaining space. Fully let out. Tower crane taken down in October. Set to open in Jan 2018




Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18' Crane should be coming down today or tomorrow. Completed in December 2018



Penrose Dock: JCD's 7 and 9 floor 250,000 sq ft office development in the area bounded by Penrose quay, Railway street, Alfred street and Brian Boru street. Will be able to accomodate 2,250 workers. Submitted for planning at the end of May, decision due on 19th of July. Further information also requested. Further information supplied and planning granted on the 12th of September. Appeals allowed until the 11th of October. If this is not appealed JCD could be on site by Halloween. On site by the middle of October! Clearance work ongoing as of the end of October. We could see a crane by Christmas. Still no crane at the start of November but work progressing quickly. No crane in December but work still progressing.




Horgan's Quay: A joint venture between BAM and Clarendon featuring over 400,000 sq feet of office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, a 136 bed hotel and 3,000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Appeal withdrawn in April. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in August with the office and apartments commencing in 2019. Probably worth noting that construction was set to start in August but as of the end of September nothing has happened. However the Hotel Clients Oakmount have already named the hotel The Dean so I would really expect serious construction to start in October or November. Serious site clearance began in October but the commencement of work form that was posted, stated a 26 week initial site contract to include all the required demolitions and site preparation work for the main construction. This means that it could be April next year before we see construction on site. Piling on the hotel has started. The site clearance line seemed to refer to the whole site. Expect a crane by Christmas! Not quite by Christmas but work is now ongoing on both the Hotel and the Office section of the development




Westfield Offices Ballincollig: Located on 6 acres Westfield Office Quarter comprises 5 individual buildings located within a landscaped development. In total the scheme has the potential to provide up to 264,000 sq ft of office accommodation with stand-alone buildings varying in size from 12,000 sq ft to 70,000 sq ft. Started site clearance in November.



Student :

• Bam's Beamish site (413 beds) has two tower cranes erected and began work on the office element at the end of October
• Student Hub in UCC has one tower crane up.

Residential

• 608 units, 496 houses and 112 apartments in Ballinglanna Glanmire, Ground and infrastructure works commenced on that project in Oct 2018, with a sales launch due next spring.
• 800 units, in the Janeville development in Carrigaline started in April 2017, 100-150 delivered per year. Now on Phase 3 with 111 units sold so far.
• 200 Units Glenveagh bought the unfinished Eden development in Blackrock for 9 million in Oct 2018. On site as of Dec 2018

Other:

• Industrial projects: Johnson & Johnson (biggest construction project in Cork), MSD, Eli Lilly (all above 100 million).
• Container Terminal for the Port of Cork: €80 million container terminal for the Port of Cork in Ringaskiddy. will initially offer a 360m with 13m depth to allow larger ships to berth at Ringaskiddy. The development includes the construction of a 13.5-hectare terminal and associated buildings as well as two ship-to-shore gantry cranes and container handling equipment. It is anticipated that it will become operational by 2020.

There are currently 4 Tower Cranes down 1 from last month all listed above.

Planning/Appealed

Mixed Use:

Sullivan's Quay: BAM's 12 storey, 180 bed, 47 metre, 4 star Hotel with 6 storey 120,000sq ft office space. Planning granted and immediately appealed. It is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. Full planning granted on June 29th. No start date for construction. Now three months with planning and little to no construction activity. Not time to get worried but one to keep an eye on. Strong rumours that this will not start until the event centre does. So expect a delay of at least 6 months. Essentially confirmed that this will not start until the Event centre does



Office:

The Prism: Time Square Construction's 15 storey, 70 metre, 60,000 sq ft office development on the triangle site on Clontarf Street. Planning lodged in the middle of May and a decision is due on the 10th of July. An Taisce objected on the 22nd of June. Further information requested on planning, however height doesn't seem to be an issue. Further information supplied on September the 17th a decision is due on the 8th of October. Planning approved, the mysterious O'Sullivan brothers are set "to comment" if this passes the appeal period.... An Taisce very likely to appeal, if they don't this has been given a tentative start date of Q2 2019. An Taisce went and appealed... Delayed proceedings until March next year at the best




City Gate Plaza: JCD submitted for planning permission for the construction of an office development at the former Ma/Comm Site. The proposed development includes two office buildings; Block A will be four floors Block B will be three floors over ground floor with terraces. The proposed development also includes a ground floor café and additional car parking. Decision due 28th of August. Planning has been resubmitted and a new decision is due on the 23rd of October. Further information requested. Planning permission granted on the 15th of Dec The one month wait on appeals will conclude in the middle of January.

Hotel:

Parnell Place Hotel: 7flr, 165 bed hotel on Parnell Place and Deane Street. Submitted on Aug 6th, objections from residents on the 10th of Sept. Planning decision was due on the 26th of Sept. Further information requested. Information supplied in Nov with a decision due on Dec 3rd. Planning Permission Granted on the 3rd of Dec The one month wait on appeals will conclude at the start of January.



Morrison's Island Hostel: 192-bed hostel. The development will include the demolition of a currently vacant building on the site after planning was granted to applicant Eoin Sheehan. Planning granted on the 4th of September.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No appeals and got full permission in April. Construction on the M boutique hotel to start sometime in 2019 and the Metropole will start once the M is completed. I have a bad feeling about this one, we are now 6 months since full planning and no movement. I wouldn't be surprised to see this go the way of Merchants Quay. Rumours that the M is set to start in mid 2019.

MacCurtain Street/York Street Hotel: 8 floor 73 bed hotel. Planning granted in March, appealed soon after and withdrawn at the end of April. Construction to start before the end of the year. Again nothing on this at all for 6 months. A poster on this thread has mentioned that the pre construction phase is underway.

Retail:

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, appealed with a decision due soon. (If somebody knows the date it would be great). No update on when the decision is due, again if somebody knows when this is due i'd love to hear. As of the end of July there is bizarrely still no update. Planning due on the 12th of September but has been indefinitely delayed

Residential:

Jacobs Island Apartments: McCarthy Properties/Montip Horizon's 413 apartments across a couple of blocks ranging in size from 6 storeys to 9 storeys and one landmark 82.8m and 25 floor tower! This would be the tallest building in the state if constructed. Submitted for Planning with a decision due on October 10th. Planning permission granted and McCarthy Properties are now are "now engaging with our design team and development partners to bring forward the development as granted". I've heard that we won't see anything on site here until at least 2020. A December 2018 article stated "As if to punctuate the region’s ambitions, work on a landmark residential tower overlooking the estuary in the southern suburb of Mahon is set to get underway next year.".

• 446 units for Cairns Homes Properties, 259 houses and 182 apartments in Carr's Hill Douglas in fast track strategic planning. Told to ammend.
• 251 residential units in Grange with associated road works, decision yet to be made
• 240 units (154 houses and 86 apartments) by Ardstone Homes Ltd in Bishopstown in fast track planning.
• 207 units submitted in Ballincollig in Nov 2018. Marked as invalid
• 203 units, 50 houses, 153 apartments on the Nemo site in Douglas approved in May
• 200 on the Good Shepard site
• 180 units, 164 houses and 10 apartments in Glounthaune
• 100 build to rent apartments in Ballintemple: , were told to amend

Entertainment

Cork Events Centre: BAM's 6,000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Construction put back to Q1 2019 at the earliest pending new planning permission. Quite a lot of waffle in July but ultimately nothing happened. Planning submitted on Aug 10th with a decision due on October 4th. An taisce have objected and will almost certainly appeal if planning is granted. There is also the not so small hurdle of central government funding. Expect this to rumble into the new year.... More information requested at the start of October. Lets see if BAM respond before the new year... No news in Nov 2018. The additional funds were approved in Dec 2018 BAM now need to provide the additional information for planning and wait on a decision.



Student accommodation:

The old Crows Nest site (250 beds) got planning in March for 10 and 8 storey student accommodation and should hopefully start at some stage this year, UCC expect it open for Sept 2020. Appointing contractor in Dec for start in mid Jan 2018

Gainstar Limited Partnership's Coca-Cola site (484 beds) on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? Site has been sold to Future Generations who will submit planning for an increase to 600 beds and are hoping for a Q2 2019 start pending planning

The Square Deal (228 beds) appeal was withdrawn and it now has full planning permission. Rumours are that this will be sold to another student accommodation provider who will submit planning for a larger development, possibly including the Off Licence site next to it.

Farranlea Road (145 beds) Has full planning permission as of July 2018. Sold to Round Rock Capital in Dec 2018 and it has been announced that this will immediately move to the construction phase

Kelleher Tyres site on Victoria Cross Rd (124 beds) and their 5 storey apartment block were asked for further information, decision due on the 7th of August. Further information was requested in August

O’Riordans Joinery (418 beds) at the Lough was due for decision on the 24th of May but I've heard nothing? Permission granted on the 25th of Aug 2018. Developers have gone back to ABP at the end of Oct 2018 asking to increase beds to 418 ABP have ruled Is reasonable Application basis I have no idea what that means....

Industrial:

€130 million investment to be made to expand the Middleton Distillery

Infrastructure:

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange: Tender for this project has been awarded to Sisk. Preliminary works by the contractor will begin on site in Q4 2018 with full construction in Q1 2019. The scheme is expected to take 3/4 years to complete due to the complex traffic management involved.

M20 Cork-Limerick: This tender process for the design and planning of this scheme went out in April with route selection and initial design expected to begin in late 2018/early 2019. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform have announced in Sept that this scheme is expected to start in 2021 and open in 2025, however this appears ambitious.

N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney: The prequal stage of this is now complete with invitations to tender being sent out in July 2018. At present, a tender award is expected (but not confirmed) in mid 2019 with a start soon after. Completion is expected to take 3 years.

N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton: This project is included in the National Development Plan having been suspended in 2011. The project has entered the pre-appraisal stage along with 14 other schemes nationwide under a TII framework. This scheme may be one of the first to go to construction as it's a small scheme and pays large dividends for low upfront cost.

M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy: This project was approved in full by An Bord Pleanala in July 2018, and Cork County Council intend to begin land purchase and issue tenders for advance works in late 2018. However, a local militant anti-motorway group in Rochestown intend to seek a judicial review on the project, which in their belief will lead to the destruction of their community and widespread health issues due to noise and air pollution, although their solution is to route the motorway through Ballinhassig instead which would add around €400m to the cost of the project and add upto 25km of a round trip for vehicles. Judicial review was awarded in September 2018, set a nominal return date to court of 4th October 2018, but this is unlikely to be the start of the hearing as the plantiff & defendant will need time to prepare their cases. Most likely early next year before the hearing commences but we'll see what fast tracked means in the high court.

M40 Motorway Reclassification and ITS Upgrade: TII & Cork County Council are currently engaged with consultants on this which would see motorway regulations being applied to the N40 and ITS equipment ("smart motorway" equipment) including display VMSs being installed on the length of the M40 and approach roads such as the N27 and N71. The study is ongoing with phased implementation expected on an as of yet unknown timescale. Enabling works including communication ducting will be carried out in Q4 2018.

M40 North Ring Road East: This project was included in the National Development Plan and will be reactivated if there is a requirement to connect the M20 to the motorway network around Cork. The road remains a priority for people on the Northside (including Apple) but not to central Government.

R624 Cobh Road dualling: Cork County Council are applying to DTTAS to have this road upgraded to a national road and a portion of dual carriageway built along its length which will involve the construction of a 2nd dual carraigeway bridge onto Great Island. The project will be initially appraised under DTTAS new appraisal guidelines, with no timescale yet for delivery.

In Limbo

Public:
Tramore Valley Park: Despite being mostly completed years ago the park remains in limbo with regard to an opening date. A few months ago Ann Doherty, chief executive of Cork City Council, said that the plan was to have the amenity open in ‘August or September.’ Now pushed back to 2019 or 2020, depending on funding. In Oct 2018 we got a new opening date of May 2019

Marina Park: Under construction with first phase to open in Q1 2019. I'm very sceptical. As of end of Oct 2018, nothing happening on site. In Nov 2019 they claimed they are looking for a contractor.

N22 Macroom-Ovens (bypassing Lissarda and Ovens), N25 Midleton-Youghal (bypassing Lakeview Roundabout, Castlemartyr and Killeagh, M40 North Ring Road West and N71 dualling all remain suspended.

Retail:
Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. Planning resubmitted and a decision due on the 23rd of August. Planning granted and the site was put up for sale. We won't see anything for years on this now

Penny's Patrick Street: In Summer 2018 Lawrence Owens of the CBA said “This planning process has been going on for a long time,” “When it happens it will transform the area, and bring vibrancy in terms of the size and scale of the project. We are just hoping that this development, which has been mooted for two to three years, can happen sooner rather than later.” Don't hold your breath!

Merchants Quay: Has had planning permission since July 2015.The last article I found on it was from 2017 and said: It is understood that work won't begin until early next year to minimise disruption to shoppers over the coming Christmas shopping period, though sources close to the development are confident that the work will be finished by late 2018.


Office:
OCP's Anderson Quay (150,000 ft2/ 5 stories) Has had full planning since sometime in 2016. No updates in the last few years. Perhaps if The Prism was to go ahead we could see something at Anderson Quay? It could possibly be developed in conjunction with the smaller phase two of OCP's Navigation Square?

Stone Work Properties' Camden Quay (65,000 sq ft/ 5 stories): Demolition work finished in Jan 2017 with Stone Work claiming "that once demolition was complete, construction would take just 12 months"

Watfore Ltd's Trinity Quarter (240,000 sq ft/5 stories): Has had planning since 2015 with very little news since. The last I can find of it was a March 2015 article which said: "There was confirmation that a €50m six-storey office block which has planning permission on the former Brooks Haughton site on Copley St, South Terrace, is going ahead within months."

All three office developments were mentioned in this article from August 2018.

Student Accommodation:


Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road (344 beds) has had planning for two years.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried. Planning application now due in Q1 2019

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale in May. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity. Rumored to be a residential development with over 1,000 apartments. Sold to Glenveagh in June 2018 for over 15 million.

The Comer brother bought the nearby Tedcastle site for €15 million as well and are also planning residential most likely high density apartments. The Comer Brothers also bought a 3.3 acre warehouse building on the Centre Park/Monoghan Rd.

Glenveagh in Nov 2018 bought a 42 acre plot of land in Douglas for 22 million. It has planning for 200 houses on 19 acres but has a further 23 acre lot which is zoned for medium of high density. I would expect a new planning application for the entire site. We could see up to 500 units total here.


A 7 acre site on the South Douglas Rd went on sale at the start of Nov. It is zoned for high density apartments.

Transportation: A Cork light rail and/or BRT system got vague mentions in Ireland 2040 but its rumoured something more concrete will be announced at the end of the summer. Now pushed back to "sometime in October" with much more vague mentions of LRT and BRT.
Bus connects was allocated 200 million in funding in the 2040 plan.
The Eastern Gateway Bridge remains a concept

Going forward:

What to watch for in Q1:

4th of January: Parnell Place Hotel final appeals date
15th of Jan: City Gate Plaza final appeals date
Sometime in Jan: Opening of JCD South Mall development
Sometime in Q1: Opening of Phase 1 Navigation Square
Sometime in Q1: Possible ABP decision on the Prism
Sometime in Jan: BAM to provide additional info for the Events Centre
Sometime in Jan: Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy, finally???
Sometime in Q1: Victoria Hotel Planning Decision??
Sometime in Q1: Planning application for the Docklands Tower


Updated best case schedule:

Q3 2018: Navigation Sq phase 2
Q4 2018: Horgan's Quay, Penrose Dock, Westfield Office
Q1 2019: Crows Nest, Farranlea Road Student, York Street Hotel, City Gate Plaza
Q2 2019: Coca Cola Student, Events Centre, Parnell Place Hotel, The Prism, The M, Jacobs Island, Sullivan's Quay
Q3 2019: Victoria Hotel, Square Deal, Kelleher Tyre's Student, Morrison's Island Hostel, O’Riordans Joinery Student

After the very slow start and middle to 2018 the run of one major development starting per month, which began in September, will likely continue throughout Q1 2019. The Crows Nest is due for a January start and will be the first of the many planned tall buildings in Cork to begin. The modest enough Farranlea Road Student development should follow it in January with the York Street Hotel to follow soon after (if posters here are to be believed). Given the recent turnaround of JCD developments it is also possible that we could see the City Gate Plaza complex start in Mahon at some stage in Q1 but I haven't heard anything on that and it has been the one black mark on JCD where they have struggled to get it started before.

The real action should be in Q2. The Events Centre should start around April if there are no appeals in the planning process. This will free up Sullivans Quay and possibly The M to start as well. The Parnell Place Hotel could start at any stage in this quarter but there have been no dates mooted yet. The mammoth Coca Cola student development should also get going early in Q2, possibly even sooner... The Prism should be free to start as well given ABP permission. The tallest building in the country on Jacobs Island should be ready to start around the end of this quarter too. That is 7 major developments which could possibly start in Q2. A lot will depend on the Events Centre, especially considering that the three hotels will all be watching that development too. My prediction for the EC is that BAM will resubmit in Jan, They'll get planning late Q1 only fort An Taisce to appeal and push the whole thing back by six or more months. If that happens it will again question the viability of the project. Overall I think that we will probably only see three of the seven developments start in this quarter with the big glut pushed back to Q3 and Q4.

Overall I have 16 major developments listed which could start in 2019. I think we will start to see a better planning to construction conversion rate next year but there will obviously be a lot of these that will stall. However given the massive glut stuck in planning and/or sales I think that we could see up to 10 start next year.

Other than that it will be fun to watch Nav Sq, Horgans Quay and Penrose Dock continue to rise. Finally there should be some big planning applications coming in 2019, there are three residential sites in the Docklands which have already been bought and I would expect to see planning for the 1,000 apartment development on the Marquee site early next year with the Tedcastle and Monoghan Rd sites to follow. There are also rumours of two more big office developments in the Docklands; one right next to Navigation Square on the Careys Tool Hire site by JCD and one on the greater Odlum's site on Kennedy Quay. Finally there are runours of an imminent UCC proposal for a Business School either in the Docklands or across from the College of Comm. There is also a massive glut in Douglas with several possible major residential developments stuck in various stages, there is the 200 unit Nemo site which has had nothing happen for nearly 9 months after getting full planning, there is the 251 units in Grange which are waiting on a decision, there is the 446 unit development in Maryborough which is entangled in a back and forth with ABP, then there is a 42 acre plot of land bought by Glenveagh which could see up to 600 units (road works on Maryborough Hill have been underway since September to allow for the development, expect planning soon), then there is the 7 acre South Douglas Road site whch is zoned for High density apartments which is up for sale. Finally there is the somewhat bizarre Lidl application including a small three storey mixed use building for restaurants, office space, a cafe and 5 apartments. Overall there is somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 residential units that could possibly be built in Douglas over the next few years. I hope CMATS is prepared....

I'll be stepping back to once per quarter updates next year. If things get absolutely mad in the summer I might go back to once per month but as of now there isn't enough happening. Happy New Year to everyone who reads this and here is to a great 2019!

chalkitdown1

Thanks for the regular updates, they're really quite informative and a ton of work must go into them.

Really appreciated.

EdgeCase

I'm in favour of most of those except Sullivan's Quay. The original building that was demolished was awful and I'm appreciating the view that is there now.

Putting up a massive tower there would just spoil the whole look of a very historic part of the city and a view of St Finbarres Cathedral.

It needs to be a lot lighter and lower impact. Something glass delicate looking could really work if if just gives you a piece of something modern that doesn't stick out.

It's not really the location for a statement piece. That's more for the docklands.

Hi An Taisce

marno21

EdgeCase wrote: »

I'm in favour of most of those except Sullivan's Quay. The original building that was demolished was awful and I'm appreciating the view that is there now.

Putting up a massive tower there would just spoil the whole look of a very historic part of the city and a view of St Finbarres Cathedral.

It needs to be a lot lighter and lower impact. Something glass delicate looking could really work if if just gives you a piece of something modern that doesn't stick out.

It's not really the location for a statement piece. That's more for the docklands.

Head into the back of Tom Barry's pub for a pint. You get a wonderful view of the Cathedral and the city gets a much needed central hotel.

EdgeCase

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi An Taisce

I've nothing to do with An Taisce. I just think shoving a big tower right there is a bit crass.

Cork's full of crass decisions like that: Merchant's Quay being a prime example. The back of the Metropole, the original Fas/Tax office that was on that site and quite a few others e.g. the original new opera house. The North Main St Car Park.... amongst others.

It's a nice city, but don't do the 'Brusselisation" thing. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusselization

There's huge scope for towers barely 700m down the South Mall. They don't have to be in the middle of one of the few historical looking parts of the city.

I'm not against developments, I have no track record whatsoever on any of these forums of being against them. I jut think that tower's ugly and in a bad location.

Mushy

As an extra to the residential updates, the construction of 277 houses/apartments in carrigtwohill got the boot by ABP. I suspect they knew BAM were up to their tricks and wouldn't stick to the planning again

EdgeCase

EdgeCase wrote: »

I've nothing to do with An Taisce. I just think shoving a big tower right there is a bit crass.

Cork's full of crass decisions like that: Merchant's Quay being a prime example. The back of the Metropole, the original Fas/Tax office that was on that site and quite a few others e.g. the original new opera house. The North Main St Car Park.... amongst others.

It's a nice city, but don't do the 'Brusselisation" thing. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusselization

There's huge scope for towers barely 700m down the South Mall. They don't have to be in the middle of one of the few historical looking parts of the city.

I'm not against developments, I have no track record whatsoever on any of these forums of being against them. I jut think that tower's ugly and in a bad location.

There is nothing historic about Sullivan's Quay, it is ramshackle and shoddy looking.

You are point to a view that has been opened up by the demolition of a building, as a reason to prevent development of a hotel right next to where the convention centre is meant to go??

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is nothing historic about Sullivan's Quay, it is ramshackle and shoddy looking.

You are point to a view that has been opened up by the demolition of a building, as a reason to prevent development of a hotel right next to where the convention centre is meant to go??

There's a highly significant pile of rubble in the middle of that site,
But it does look cool now that it's been "opened up", it was never going to remain empty space though, the minimum replacement size would be the size of the old fás building..
And yes it is one of the older, historic parts of the city.. Doubt there's much archeology in the old foundations though..

Markcheese

Anyone know how they're proposing to bypass the lakeview roundabout at Midleton (on the n25)??
There's not really anywhere to go? South would mean through the estuary and going through or around balinacurra...
And North would mean skirting the town completely...

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

There's a highly significant pile of rubble in the middle of that site,
But it does look cool now that it's been "opened up", it was never going to remain empty space though, the minimum replacement size would be the size of the old fás building..
And yes it is one of the older, historic parts of the city.. Doubt there's much archeology in the old foundations though..

I doubt that the poster is talking about the archaeological merits of the location, rather the design and feel. It feels rundown

ofcork

What about the planned housing in monard.merchants quay seems to be held up laura Ashley and dealz still trading.

snotboogie

ofcork wrote: »

What about the planned housing in monard.merchants quay seems to be held up laura Ashley and dealz still trading.

Like Tivoli, I’ll believe it when I see it.

Rhys Essien

@snotboogie

Hopefully this whole block will sell in the new year and add to the list of major developments.

https://www.myhome.ie/commercial/brochure/moores-hotel-morrisons-quay-cork-city-cork/4275730

namloc1980

An Bord Pleanala refused permission for BAM development in Carrigtwohill of c.300 units. Poor site layout and poor integration with the train station were among the reasons it was refused.

Markcheese

snotboogie wrote: »

Like Tivoli, I’ll believe it when I see it.

Well the container port will be gone soon, And I assume port of Cork need the money from land sales to finance the new facilities... But as to Wether it'll end up sold to one developer or be sold site by site, who knows.. Could spend years being flipped between developers, and that's before it goes for planning, flipped a few more times Ect Ect...
I assume cork city Council will have, or already have an outline plan for the area, which should help planning..

marno21

Markcheese wrote: »

Well the container port will be gone soon, And I assume port of Cork need the money from land sales to finance the new facilities... But as to Wether it'll end up sold to one developer or be sold site by site, who knows.. Could spend years being flipped between developers, and that's before it goes for planning, flipped a few more times Ect Ect...
I assume cork city Council will have, or already have an outline plan for the area, which should help planning..

Indeed Port of Cork seem to be taking care of Tivoli redevelopment themselves

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/thousands-of-homes-set-to-be-built-on-cork-dock-site-472383.html

It'll be interesting to see how they propose to improve road access to the site.

Quick mention of Marino Point, in that article. As great a site as that may be I'd hate to see any major development on that island without major access works done. The rail line running through is not enough, that one little road/bridge is already too dangerous