Cork developments

Can anyone explain to me what fast track planning is?

I just bought a house near the proposed residential development by Ardstone in Bishopstown. It went under my radar until now - my new neighbours seem to be unaware too - and am fairly amazed by the scale of it and where they plan on putting the entrance on the Waterfall Road. I would have major concerns about the impact this could have on what is already a traffic bottleneck trying to access the south link from the Waterfall Road.

Pitcairn

Deleted User wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what fast track planning is?

Most planning applications go to the local council first but the decision of the council planners can be appealed to An Bord Pleanala in Dublin. This means it can easily take over a year to get a significant development through the planning process and one person's appeal can delay a project by many months and add huge costs.
Given the housing crisis, developers can now apply to An Bord Pleanala directly, bypassing the local councils, and have their proposal assessed much quicker. The public still have the right to view plans and make objections or submissions.

The one near your house by Ardstone has just been accepted as a strategic housing development which means it bypasses County Hall.
Here is the website for the plans:
https://www.ardarostigplanning.ie/

Pitcairn

Pitcairn wrote: »

Most planning applications go to the local council first but the decision of the council planners can be appealed to An Bord Pleanala in Dublin. This means it can easily take over a year to get a significant development through the planning process and one person's appeal can delay a project by many months and add huge costs.
Given the housing crisis, developers can now apply to An Bord Pleanala directly, bypassing the local councils, and have their proposal assessed much quicker. The public still have the right to view plans and make objections or submissions.

The one near your house by Ardstone has just been accepted as a strategic housing development which means it bypasses County Hall.
Here is the website for the plans:
https://www.ardarostigplanning.ie/

Thanks for the explanation. That's what I guessed it was but was not sure as I had never heard of it before.

Thanks for the link - I found it yesterday as well as some of the connected reports.

I would be amazed if planning for that application was granted given the access and the ramifications for traffic in an already congested area. With the revamped Dunnes Stores, young families moving into the Rise and surrounding estates all the time and the proposed development just off Hawke's Road, there is no infrastructure in place to deal with potential volume of traffic accessing the south Link at Bandon Rd.

The only way I could see it working is if they created direct access to the link road from the development.

MrDerp

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation. That's what I guessed it was but was not sure as I had never heard of it before.

Thanks for the link - I found it yesterday as well as some of the connected reports.

I would be amazed if planning for that application was granted given the access and the ramifications for traffic in an already congested area. With the revamped Dunnes Stores, young families moving into the Rise and surrounding estates all the time and the proposed development just off Hawke's Road, there is no infrastructure in place to deal with potential volume of traffic accessing the south Link at Bandon Rd.

The only way I could see it working is if they created direct access to the link road from the development.

I presume you’ve read the inspectors report of the pre planning consultation?
http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/302/R302125.pdf

They’re recommending more density, and will expect to see local road improvements to include cycle lanes and possibly a right turning lane.

A traffic impact assessment is required, I can’t see why the Marymount development didn’t require a full connecting road from the N40 to waterfall road as is, but a contribution to same will like alleviate the traffic concerns.

Can’t see this being blocked on traffic concerns given what was approved in Jacobs island.

MrDerp

MrDerp wrote: »

I presume you’ve read the inspectors report of the pre planning consultation?
http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/302/R302125.pdf

They’re recommending more density, and will expect to see local road improvements to include cycle lanes and possibly a right turning lane.

A traffic impact assessment is required, I can’t see why the Marymount development didn’t require a full connecting road from the N40 to waterfall road as is, but a contribution to same will like alleviate the traffic concerns.

Can’t see this being blocked on traffic concerns given what was approved in Jacobs island.

Yes, I read the report just there. The right turn and cycle lanes are fine, but it is still essentially just a small country road that now has a suburb growing around it.

The connection via Marymount on to Curraheen would have worked but as is is just a through road that can be closed at any point.

Without direct access to link, all traffic will be funnelled towards what is already a bottleneck - and getting worse - at junction of Waterfall Rd and Bishopstown Rd heading for the Bandon Rd roundabout. That or cars will start rat running through the Rise and joining the link at Curraheen.

Either way, the road network there at the moment can't cope with the volume of traffic.

MrDerp

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, I read the report just there. The right turn and cycle lanes are fine, but it is still essentially just a small country road that now has a suburb growing around it.

The connection via Marymount on to Curraheen would have worked but as is is just a through road that can be closed at any point.

Without direct access to link, all traffic will be funnelled towards what is already a bottleneck - and getting worse - at junction of Waterfall Rd and Bishopstown Rd heading for the Bandon Rd roundabout. That or cars will start rat running through the Rise and joining the link at Curraheen.

Either way, the road network there at the moment can't cope with the volume of traffic.

The same is true of most of the road network to be fair. I live near the city centre and every development, commercial or residential, up and downstream has the potential to increase traffic for me, and does. You’ve bought a house next to a strategic land bank (as referred to in the report) and so development is inevitable on your road.

There’ll be another one next to this likely within 5 years:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/development-site-outside-cork-city-on-sale-for-more-than-6m

So I’m afraid your near-urban rural location won’t stay that way forever. Arguably the development should instead be focused closer to the city centre but people want to live there and politicians are spineless when it comes to ring road developments.

I don’t see how direct access to the n40 is possible given the development is to the south of waterfall road. Also, the n40 is accessible via Marymount, even if it’s a rat run right now with stop signs. Finally, this type of access is thankfully controlled by TII and not generally possible.

The best you can do is argue strongly for improvements to the traffic flow around the complex e.g. at the junction of waterfall rd with Brandon rd

MrDerp

MrDerp wrote: »

The same is true of most of the road network to be fair. I live near the city centre and every development, commercial or residential, up and downstream has the potential to increase traffic for me, and does. You’ve bought a house next to a strategic land bank (as referred to in the report) and so development is inevitable on your road.

There’ll be another one next to this likely within 5 years:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/development-site-outside-cork-city-on-sale-for-more-than-6m

So I’m afraid your near-urban rural location won’t stay that way forever. Arguably the development should instead be focused closer to the city centre but people want to live there and politicians are spineless when it comes to ring road developments.

I don’t see how direct access to the n40 is possible given the development is to the south of waterfall road. Also, the n40 is accessible via Marymount, even if it’s a rat run right now with stop signs. Finally, this type of access is thankfully controlled by TII and not generally possible.

The best you can do is argue strongly for improvements to the traffic flow around the complex e.g. at the junction of waterfall rd with Brandon rd

I have no objection whatsoever to the surrounding area being developed and am surprised the suburbs haven't spread that way sooner. In fact, I think it's great that Bishopstown is finally getting some development given that side of the city has remained untouched since the 1960s. The fact that Btown is completely lacking in the amenities for the ageing population as is is another matter whatsoever!

My problem with it is that the road network serving this new development is awful and would require reconfiguration and some clear thinking to make it work properly. Hopefully that happens.

Markcheese

Can't see the NRA (or whatever they are these days) giving any development a direct entrance on to the n40, especially as its supposed to becoming a motorway soon...
But..

snotboogie

Markcheese wrote: »

Can't see the NRA (or whatever they are these days) giving any development a direct entrance on to the n40, especially as its supposed to becoming a motorway soon...
But..

I can’t see it either, in the grand scheme of things it’s not even that significant a development.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact that Btown is completely lacking in the amenities for the ageing population as is is another matter whatsoever!

Sorry to say but they won't care about that age demographic. Wilton/Btown is going to be more and more a university suburb (expecially with the CIT upgrade coming)

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry to say but they won't care about that age demographic. Wilton/Btown is going to be more and more a university suburb (expecially with the CIT upgrade coming)

Not so sure about that. Been hearing that for years, but the vast majority of houses changing hands in Btown are being bought by families. There are not many of the old student houses in the area anymore as the value of property has increased and more and more high rises are going up that are specially built for students.

rounders

Markcheese wrote: »

Well the container port will be gone soon, And I assume port of Cork need the money from land sales to finance the new facilities.....

Link to architects report here is anyone wants to have a read

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://kmpc.ie/index.php/download_file/view/84/79/&ved=2ahUKEwjPj8rZj8bfAhV_SxUIHWNoCl0QFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3a_GBVIt2bl2KjCQP51LD6

opus

It's still quite the impressive pile of rubble on Sullivan's Quay.



Closer look here.

ofcork

I see carraig donn are opening soon in merchants quay in the old Edinburgh mill unit don't know whats going on in there health shop has closed now too in there.

snotboogie

ofcork wrote: »

I see carraig donn are opening soon in merchants quay in the old Edinburgh mill unit don't know whats going on in there health shop has closed now too in there.

I saw that too, so weird. I assumed all of the shops were closing in preparation for the redevelopment of the whole complex but now there is a new unit opening? It's the worst building in the city since the Tax office was knocked.

ofcork

I don't think its a bad looking building but needs a rejig alright.

snotboogie

snotboogie wrote: »

I saw that too, so weird. I assumed all of the shops were closing in preparation for the redevelopment of the whole complex but now there is a new unit opening? It's the worst building in the city since the Tax office was knocked.

Ah now that is total hyperbole. Most of McCurtain Street, all of North/SouthMain Street. vast areas of Patrick street. Crappy, crumbling hodgepodge of ugly ass buildings

snotboogie

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah now that is total hyperbole. Most of McCurtain Street, all of North/SouthMain Street. vast areas of Patrick street. Crappy, crumbling hodgepodge of ugly ass buildings

I stand over it Merchants Quay, specifically the side facing the Lee, is the ugliest building in Cork.

Markcheese

snotboogie wrote: »

I stand over it Merchants Quay, specifically the side facing the Lee, is the ugliest building in Cork.

Off the top of my head I can't think of much worse, but to me, it's more boring than ugly.. And that's a whole lot of boring...

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Off the top of my head I can't think of much worse, but to me, it's more boring than ugly.. And that's a whole lot of boring...

That's it. it's bland and boring but there are much worse. Old Suttons building on the Mall. One next to the new hotel. Insurance bulding on Oliver Plunkett are all actively ugly.


All the turn of the 20th ugly ass buildings of various designs and heights adding a rundown look to entire streets.

Markcheese

Wasn't that one of the given reasons for demolishing everything on Merchants Quay and replacing it with a nice modern shopping centre...
It was a hotch potch of different styles and heights and had become (or deliberately been let ) very rundown,
Now you'd see old pictures of the Quay and (bar a couple of buildings) you'd think pity they hadn't the frontage...

Flesh Gorden

Oil drilling off Cork coast expected to begin late in 2019

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Oil-drilling-off-Cork-coast-expected-to-begin-late-in-2019-54c962f6-80a8-451c-9966-7c41af4f2558-ds

TONY O’REILLY Jr expects drilling for oil off the Cork coast to begin in the third quarter of 2019, and said his company, Providence Resources, have a roadmap to take the Barryroe oil and gas field to the production stage.

Earlier this year, Providence signed a farm-out agreement with a Chinese consortium in which they agreed to fund 100% of the drilling costs for three wells at Barryroe.

Mr O’Reilly told the Evening Echo in July that Barryroe has the potential to become a billion-dollar enterprise, and he had hoped to begin drilling by the end of June.

But An Taisce has objected to the Government granting a permit to Providence and the company acknowledge this will delay their plans.

Apparently it will ruin the views of the water

igCorcaigh

Markcheese wrote: »

Wasn't that one of the given reasons for demolishing everything on Merchants Quay and replacing it with a nice modern shopping centre...
It was a hotch potch of different styles and heights and had become (or deliberately been let ) very rundown,
Now you'd see old pictures of the Quay and (bar a couple of buildings) you'd think pity they hadn't the frontage...

That hotch potch style is signature Cork. I like how the Lavitt's quay development mirrors that.

I do remember the old merchants quay, specifically the trees growing out of the buildings. Could have done with a revamp, but unfortunately the shopping centre passed the 1980s architectural test.

igCorcaigh

The dunnes stores development on the quay opposite North mall is a crime though.

opus

igCorcaigh wrote: »

The dunnes stores development on the quay opposite North mall is a crime though.

Tell me about it, it's one of the uglier things I see out my window. I think the Mad About Cork gang had some plans for the unpainted concrete car park but haven't seen any details. How come an Taisce didn't try and stop that monstrosity

The entire area around North Main Gate is a disaster, from the cinema and crappy apartments to the Dunnes Complex.

Markcheese

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

Oil drilling off Cork coast expected to begin late in 2019

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Oil-drilling-off-Cork-coast-expected-to-begin-late-in-2019-54c962f6-80a8-451c-9966-7c41af4f2558-ds



Apparently it will ruin the views of the water

What grounds are they objecting on?

Doubt it'll be worth anything to Ireland, chances are most of the services will come via Scotland, there's no payment due to the state except corporation tax, and that'll never materialise, it'd be better off left in the ground..

questionmark?

https://www.penrosedock.com/two-penrose-dock
Penrose dock website for anyone interested in having a look.

Not tall enough

questionmark?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not tall enough

9 stories is better than the usual 4/5 but as beside the train station it would have been ideal to go up another few at least to 18+.