Cork developments

hans aus dtschl

bladebrew wrote: »

Has any building work started at Dunkettle yet Folks? I am away at the moment, but it's possible that I will be working in Little island when I am back in the summer, and I was just thinking it will cause a tricky commute for a few years!

Ground clearance works seem complete.
Site offices look complete.
Site access roads look mostly complete.
Ground investigation works are underway.
No new structures or earthworks started just yet.

Your bigger problem (by far) right now would be getting into Little Island itself. I was 30 minutes this morning in the queue to get in to Little Island, north of the tunnel. They're currently working on narrowing the footpaths on the bridge to try and make more lanes for traffic (I wish i was joking).

Your sustainable transport options are relatively limited, thanks to the Co.Co's "cars first" strategy. My best advice: avoid working in Little Island if you can.

j8wk2feszrnpao

bladebrew wrote: »

Has any building work started at Dunkettle yet Folks? I am away at the moment, but it's possible that I will be working in Little island when I am back in the summer, and I was just thinking it will cause a tricky commute for a few years!

Weekly newsletter here: https://www.dunkettle.ie/newsletters

AugustusMinimus

Serious access improvements are required at Little Island.

A new junction onto the N25.
A new bridge with access to the old N25 only
A new train station between Dunkettle and current Little Island station with a foot bridge to give access to the Little Island business park.

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Serious access improvements are required at Little Island.

A new junction onto the N25.
A new bridge with access to the old N25 only
A new train station between Dunkettle and current Little Island station with a foot bridge to give access to the Little Island business park.

I agree, but they don't plan any of that I'm afraid.
The current plan includes:
A multi-use dumbell interchange for Dublin-Cork traffic, Little Island traffic and Old Youghal Road (Glounthaune/Glanmire) traffic.
No new train station planned.
At some point in the distant future, pedestrian/cycle facilities and a bus.

The current junction works are installing bus lanes for the buses which don't exist and narrowing the footpaths for the pedestrians who do exist (in quite large numbers from each train).

snotboogie

Permission is granted for a micro-distillery in The Bodega

It's good to see this getting permission on the second attempt. The Bodega is a nice building but it's dead at the moment.

namloc1980

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I agree, but they don't plan any of that I'm afraid.
The current plan includes:
A multi-use dumbell interchange for Dublin-Cork traffic, Little Island traffic and Old Youghal Road (Glounthaune/Glanmire) traffic.
No new train station planned.
At some point in the distant future, pedestrian/cycle facilities and a bus.

The current junction works are installing bus lanes for the buses which don't exist and narrowing the footpaths for the pedestrians who do exist (in quite large numbers from each train).

CMATS will cover some of this. It's likely to include a new train station near Dunkettle with P&R, at Carrigtwohill IDA as well as BusConnects.

D'Agger

The key to pushing people towards rail, which admittedly I should be availing of currently living in Carrigtwohill, is making it easier to access the business park from the rail station.

As has been mentioned, a footbridge would be ideal. Something like the Coke Zero bike scheme and cycle lanes would be ideal but unlikely - my wonder is whether companies in Little Island could look to do more in assisting with this. Flexi time is one way of resolving this but from the point of view of pointing people towards rail/public transport is there anything more that could be done other than bike to work scheme?

Shedite27

D'Agger wrote: »

The key to pushing people towards rail, which admittedly I should be availing of currently living in Carrigtwohill, is making it easier to access the business park from the rail station.

As has been mentioned, a footbridge would be ideal. Something like the Coke Zero bike scheme and cycle lanes would be ideal but unlikely - my wonder is whether companies in Little Island could look to do more in assisting with this. Flexi time is one way of resolving this but from the point of view of pointing people towards rail/public transport is there anything more that could be done other than bike to work scheme?

Are there any shuttle busses organised? I work in a business park (Cherrywood) and there's a shuttle ran from the Shankill Dart station in the mornings and afternoons.

namloc1980

D'Agger wrote: »

The key to pushing people towards rail, which admittedly I should be availing of currently living in Carrigtwohill, is making it easier to access the business park from the rail station.

As has been mentioned, a footbridge would be ideal. Something like the Coke Zero bike scheme and cycle lanes would be ideal but unlikely - my wonder is whether companies in Little Island could look to do more in assisting with this. Flexi time is one way of resolving this but from the point of view of pointing people towards rail/public transport is there anything more that could be done other than bike to work scheme?

There's tax saver tickets but not every employer supports that for one reason or another. Don't a footbridge would encourage anyone. We've had people on here complaining about the walk from the station so for since people unless the footbridge had a moving walkway that brought then right to their place of work they wouldn't use it. A shuttle bus going around the parks might be an idea but can't see the businesses paying for that

who_me

marno21 wrote: »

There needs to be a real big push behind it from all parties concerned.

Ireland needs to drop this idea that it's possible to expand and grow without providing infrastructure. The idea has been firmly debunked at this stage.

And also they need to bear in mind the lead times for infrastructure projects. You could probably go from a twinkle in your eye to a finished housing development in 3 years, all going well. But major infrastructure transport projects (new routes, bridges, light rail, elevated or underground rail) could take up to what, 10? 20?

It's going to be a pretty tough sell to ask people "Please don't drive your children to school, or drive to work now; traffic would be crazy. We'll have new rail services in 20 years".

Rather than greenlighting lots of housing developments and waiting for demand to rise, they need to start with the infrastructure developments and the housing will follow.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

There's tax saver tickets but not every employer supports that for one reason or another. Don't a footbridge would encourage anyone. We've had people on here complaining about the walk from the station so for since people unless the footbridge had a moving walkway that brought then right to their place of work they wouldn't use it. A shuttle bus going around the parks might be an idea but can't see the businesses paying for that

I disagree with you on the footbridge: the route from train station to East Gate (where most of the pedestrians seem to be going) is circuitous.
The proposed pedestrian bridge would be more direct for people going to Laya healthcare, I think it actually cuts their journey in half from approx 1.5km to approx 800m.

Shuttle bus is in the medium term plan, but I believe Bus Éireann don't want to send their city fleet into the existing N25 gridlock, so the bus lanes are being done to try and facilitate this.

Some of the proposed shuttle bus routes are available on the Cork County Council website, here:
https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-10/181010_LI_Route_Maps%2003-Pro%20Shuttle%20Routes.pdf

namloc1980

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I disagree with you on the footbridge: the route from train station to East Gate (where most of the pedestrians seem to be going) is circuitous.
The proposed pedestrian bridge would be more direct for people going to Laya healthcare, I think it actually cuts their journey in half from approx 1.5km to approx 800m.

Shuttle bus is in the medium term plan, but I believe Bus Éireann don't want to send their city fleet into the existing N25 gridlock, so the bus lanes are being done to try and facilitate this.

Some of the proposed shuttle bus routes are available on the Cork County Council website, here:
https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-10/181010_LI_Route_Maps%2003-Pro%20Shuttle%20Routes.pdf

Looking at the map the bridge will crossover the N25 and place people near to the hotel at the turn. It doesn't bring them to near Laya that much. Maybe knocks 200m max off the walk.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

Looking at the map the bridge will crossover the N25 and place people near to the hotel at the turn. It doesn't bring them to near Laya that much. Maybe knocks 200m max off the walk.

Obviously it's hard to know without actual plans but I did the "measure distance" thing in Google maps for both routes: 1500m/800m. In fairness Google have evolved the tool to a point where it's really usable for this. You're possibly missing the fact that the new pedestrian route also plans to cut immediately West from the Radisson to Laya?

More detail here:
https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-10/181010_LI_Route_Maps%2002-Pro%20Ped%20Routes.pdf

namloc1980

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Obviously it's hard to know without actual plans but I did the "measure distance" thing in Google maps for both routes: 1500m/800m. In fairness Google have evolved the tool to a point where it's really usable for this. You're possibly missing the fact that the new pedestrian route also plans to cut immediately West from the Radisson to Laya?

That's assuming the Radisson allows through access for pedestrians through it's property. Or else make a path through the wooded area. All sounds positive in theory..... unfortunately I'll be surprised if it actually amounts to anything in reality.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

who_me wrote: »

And also they need to bear in mind the lead times for infrastructure projects. You could probably go from a twinkle in your eye to a finished housing development in 3 years, all going well. But major infrastructure transport projects (new routes, bridges, light rail, elevated or underground rail) could take up to what, 10? 20?

It's going to be a pretty tough sell to ask people "Please don't drive your children to school, or drive to work now; traffic would be crazy. We'll have new rail services in 20 years".

Rather than greenlighting lots of housing developments and waiting for demand to rise, they need to start with the infrastructure developments and the housing will follow.

This.

I thought it was very shortsighted of CCC to greenlight a Greenway for Youghal instead of extending the Midleton line.

If Youghal had a rail connection I guarantee you'd see more people choosing it as a place to live and commute to/from work in the city. Not to mention it currently has 8k people there at the moment.

This country just doesn't put public transport up there as a priority and we'll be paying for it dearly in the coming years with fines and traffic issues. (we already are in some areas, Douglas etc)

marno21

It's also important that there isn't an Events Centre like domino effect when it comes to these plans. If the proposed Light Rail corridor is densified and then the project is scrapped, there will be severe access issues along the line.

Actual implementation of this plan will be the challenge when you see how much of the LUTS plan and the CASP plan were implemented and at what timescale. The Midleton rail link was touted in the LUTS plan but didn't open for 31 years.

namloc1980

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

This.

I thought it was very shortsighted of CCC to greenlight a Greenway for Youghal instead of extending the Midleton line.

If Youghal had a rail connection I guarantee you'd see more people choosing it as a place to live and commute to/from work in the city. Not to mention it currently has 8k people there at the moment.

This country just doesn't put public transport up there as a priority and we'll be paying for it dearly in the coming years with fines and traffic issues. (we already are in some areas, Douglas etc)

Don't think we should be encouraging 40/50km commutes to be honest. That's what has got Dublin into the state it's in, with huge commuter belt and 1 hour plus commutes.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

Don't think we should be encouraging 40/50km commutes to be honest. That's what has got Dublin into the state it's in, with huge commuter belt with 1 hour plus commutes.

Absolutely agree with this. By all means develop Carrigtwohill and Midleton and then start moving East of Midleton.

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I thought it was very shortsighted of CCC to greenlight a Greenway for Youghal instead of extending the Midleton line.

There's far worse things going on: approving Laya's new Little Island buildings (400 more cars) before fixing the existing traffic problems.
Approving the O'Flynn Glanmire development before fixing existing traffic problems.
The whole of Carrigaline and Douglas, pretty much:
Multiple schools on the Carrigaline Eastern Bypass, approval of Janeville in its entirety. No public transport corridors through Douglas, it's been progressing like this for some time, with developments and associated council contributions with no supporting infrastructure.

Youghal's traffic issues pale into insignificance by comparison to these.

who_me

marno21 wrote: »

It's also important that there isn't an Events Centre like domino effect when it comes to these plans. If the proposed Light Rail corridor is densified and then the project is scrapped, there will be severe access issues along the line.

In a sense, high-density developments aren't really a solution as such, but rather they exacerbate the problem (traffic, commuting, parking) to the point that single-occupant vehicles become an unattractive option and grander, more strategic solutions start to be feasible.

As you say - it's not just that infrastructure projects will certainly lag behind the densification; but they might not arrive at all. A downturn in the economy could hit at any time and strategic projects looking to satisfy future demand are likely to be among the first to be axed.

That's true regardless of whether we're talking about commuter towns; or new, dense developments in the city docklands. (If just a few docklands developments go ahead, without the Water Street or Eastern Gateway bridges and/or any new high capacity public transport option, it could make the existing traffic problems far worse).

Markcheese

If they build that park and ride and rail link at dunkettle it'll be quite close to glanmire...
I do think places like glamire, carrigtohil especially little island could do with little hopper or distributor buses, but they'd need priority to get through traffic snarls..

Slipperydodger

Tánaiste confirms work to finalise Cork event centre funding is ongoing https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tanaiste-confirms-work-to-finalise-cork-event-centre-funding-is-ongoing-908676.html#.XH2ccz7ZW64.twitter

snotboogie

I know people will be frustrated but that isn’t the worst update in the world. Good to hear BAM are working on the planning because as of December they were not.

who_me

St. Patrick's Bridge was fully lit up last night for the first time... ever? 3 new street lights, all 12 lanterns restored and lit, and very bright 'strip' lighting all along the side. (The strip lighting is a slightly odd choice, generally you'd go with spotlighting with such a nice bridge and quality of stone). Looks fantastic now. I would post a photo, but it would just be a dark view of the city with a really, really bright white line across it.

The lanterns are a bit funny - empty (no bulb) but with bright LED(?) lights in the roof of the lantern, but it's nice to see them kept.

Balustrades, bannisters and surrounding quayside walls all restored and cleaned, new paths, new road resurfacing. Bualadh bos to those involved!

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/proposal-to-develop-13-storey-apartment-block-in-cork-city-suburb-widely-criticised-908874.html

"The Ballinglanna 608-unit development will add to this traffic chaos as well so another complex this size will be madness," he said.

Talk about false equivalency.

mrpdap

who_me wrote: »

St. Patrick's Bridge was fully lit up last night for the first time... ever? 3 new street lights, all 12 lanterns restored and lit, and very bright 'strip' lighting all along the side. (The strip lighting is a slightly odd choice, generally you'd go with spotlighting with such a nice bridge and quality of stone). Looks fantastic now. I would post a photo, but it would just be a dark view of the city with a really, really bright white line across it.

The lanterns are a bit funny - empty (no bulb) but with bright LED(?) lights in the roof of the lantern, but it's nice to see them kept.

Balustrades, bannisters and surrounding quayside walls all restored and cleaned, new paths, new road resurfacing. Bualadh bos to those involved!

I saw that last night from North Gate Bridge, strip lighting looked v strange. Must be overwhelming up close

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/proposal-to-develop-13-storey-apartment-block-in-cork-city-suburb-widely-criticised-908874.html



Talk about false equivalency.

It's not equivalent at all, no.

However I pass through that area from time to time and it's not really appropriate for that scale of density at the moment, the roads are narrow and the footpaths are extremely narrow (where they even exist) and are often simply parked on as it is.

Public transport in the area is fairly unreliable due to the congestion. Something like 80% of the footpaths in Glanmire are below standard width, there's no cycling facilities whatsoever...I could go on. It's basically another little car-dependent commuter town outside the city, with no major employment centre whatsoever. There's one little sprawly pedestrian-unfriendly shopping area about 1km walk from that proposed building.
The idea that this development would have even a majority of people using sustainable transport modes is a fantasy.

I'm actually in favour of high density and high-rise in the Glanmire area but that location probably isn't the best place to start. Probably would be better to build up a proper density core around the Hazelwood and Crestfield Shopping Centres and radiate out from that.

who_me

mrpdap wrote: »

I saw that last night from North Gate Bridge, strip lighting looked v strange. Must be overwhelming up close

Seen from St. Patrick's Quay

(Apologies for the reflections and dust on the outside of the window...)

ShamoBuc

who_me wrote: »

Seen from St. Patrick's Quay

(Apologies for the reflections and dust on the outside of the window...)

I reckon if they could turn down the strip lighting by around 30-40% it would look much nicer.

who_me

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I reckon if they could turn down the strip lighting by around 30-40% it would look much nicer.

My camera didn't do it any favours (hard to capture the darkness of the river/sky as well as the brightness of the lights) but it is fairly bright alright.

rounders

A bit closer up pic from Twitter

https://twitter.com/chrisjoleary/status/1102824380332163073