Cork developments

questionmark?

EnzoScifo wrote: »

60% growth in passenger numbers on the 220 since the introduction of 24 hour timetable.

Imagine the impact that would have on traffic if replicated across the network. Goes to show if you make it a usable service it will be used!!

who_me

cgcsb wrote: »

We could add a couple of hundred onto motor tax to fund the gap I suppose, but you could argue that would be punative to people no living in Cities, Ireland still has nearly 40% of the population living in rural areas.

I would propose imposing a tax on companies within the urban area that provide staff parking, it is a benefit in kind after all, and then start replacing on street parking with more cycle lanes and better foot paths, keep some loading areas, dissabled spaces and ecar charging points.

At present if you own a car and your company offers free parking, you are going to drive, no other modal choice makes sense. It has to become expensive to park.

I agree that the company parking is an appealing perk, but presumably that has its own cost to the company (in the form of the cost of the land, which is increasingly expensive; and perhaps in maintenance/monitoring). Instead of lots of companies along the route, all offering their own parking spaces, they could voluntarily contribute to a 'bus fund'. How much does it actually cost to run one bus (fuel & driver) for a day?

Having a free 24 hour bus nearby would be a very nice draw for staff, and it'd help any company who has (or wants) longer/more work shifts.

And for any of those who are calling for additional such routes, Bus Eireann could set a target: if businesses can subsidise a set percentage of the cost, they'll offer extended hours service. And if it hits a higher percentage (full cost, or full cost with the help of a Government subsidy) they'll offer a full 24/7 service.

Tomtom364

questionmark? wrote: »

Imagine the impact that would have on traffic if replicated across the network. Goes to show if you make it a usable service it will be used!!

I'd imagine it would have a very small impact on traffic considering the Incease would be due to the numbers on late hours services that didn't exist before at times when traffic isn't a problem at all.

questionmark?

Tomtom364 wrote: »

questionmark? wrote: »

Imagine the impact that would have on traffic if replicated across the network. Goes to show if you make it a usable service it will be used!!

I'd imagine it would have a very small impact on traffic considering the Incease would be due to the numbers on late hours services that didn't exist before at times when traffic isn't a problem at all.

Sure thing Mr Glass half empty. 60% increase across the network would result in less cars in the road. Not every service would run at night but increased frequency makes services more customer friendly.
I don't have the figures but I would guess the doubling in day time frequency has resulted in a large portion of the the 60% increase rather than the non frequent night time service. (Still great its running at night).

who_me

who_me wrote: »

I agree that the company parking is an appealing perk, but presumably that has its own cost to the company (in the form of the cost of the land, which is increasingly expensive; and perhaps in maintenance/monitoring). Instead of lots of companies along the route, all offering their own parking spaces, they could voluntarily contribute to a 'bus fund'. How much does it actually cost to run one bus (fuel & driver) for a day?

Having a free 24 hour bus nearby would be a very nice draw for staff, and it'd help any company who has (or wants) longer/more work shifts.

And for any of those who are calling for additional such routes, Bus Eireann could set a target: if businesses can subsidise a set percentage of the cost, they'll offer extended hours service. And if it hits a higher percentage (full cost, or full cost with the help of a Government subsidy) they'll offer a full 24/7 service.

Oh, and forgot another important factor - if a free bus route were practical (don't know if it could be) then it would dramatically reduce boarding times.

Instead of (say) 10 seconds per passenger to give the money, and wait for change and the ticket; or waiting for the card to register; everyone would just walk right on in about the same amount of time it takes for one passenger to get on now. The bus journey takes less time and it should be easier to stick close to the schedule with one cause of delays (lots of passengers boarding) eliminated.

Eod100

questionmark? wrote: »

Imagine the impact that would have on traffic if replicated across the network. Goes to show if you make it a usable service it will be used!!

Don't think its usable over unusable, more introduction of a 24 hour service over non-24 hour.

cgcsb

munstermagic11 wrote: »

There’s enough tax/fees paid on buying a car, fuel, motor tax, NCT...
Asking for hundreds to be added to motor tax is also asking to increase business costs, and therefore the cost of the product bought by the consumer.

I don't agree with it as a policy, I was curious how another poster would fund a free-at-point public transport system, which I also don't think it of any benefit.

cgcsb

kuro2k wrote: »

A tax will never happen, government talked about introducing a parking bik tax over 10 years ago

Public / Civil servants benefit most from free city center parking. Very few private sector employees have free parking in urban areas

I don't think that's accurate. Where do the thousands of car commuters go for the day when they bring their cars into cities, they must park somewhere. Street parking is expensive and often difficult to find, it's not a realistic commuting option to find and pay for street parking. Much of the offic buildings predating the 1990s have lots of parking, this should be rationed, converted to other use and taxed mercilessly.

Brussels Sprout

Abtran moved out of the University Technology park, on the Curraheen Road, last summer. Of the 4 units in the park they were occupying 1.5 of them (I believe). There is at least 1 entire unit still unoccupied 9 months later. This is a unit which comes with a lot of parking spaces for employees and has easy access to the N40 (south link road), the N71 (Bandon road) and the N22 (Macroom Road). If a tenant can’t be found for that then I wonder what’s going to happen with all the of the multitude of office buildings that are in the pipeline, most of which are in city centre locations with little or no employee parking.

snotboogie

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Abtran moved out of the University Technology park, on the Curraheen Road, last summer. Of the 4 units in the park they were occupying 1.5 of them (I believe). There is at least 1 entire unit still unoccupied 9 months later. This is a unit which comes with a lot of parking spaces for employees and has easy access to the N40 (south link road), the N71 (Bandon road) and the N22 (Macroom Road). If a tenant can’t be found for that then I wonder what’s going to happen with all the of the multitude of office buildings that are in the pipeline, most of which are in city centre locations with little or no employee parking.

There was a new unit built in the Airport business park last year and it's still empty 6 months later. Similar spec to what you just described. I believe the idea is that your regular business park offices have a completely different clientele than the Grade A office space being built at the moment in the city centre and that the demand lies with the fancy new builds. So far they have been proven right, One Albert Quay and 85 South Mall are fully let. Navigation Sq phase 1 has 900k sq ft out of 106k sq ft pre let. The Capitol has been at 90% occupancy for the last 12 months.

mire

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Abtran moved out of the University Technology park, on the Curraheen Road, last summer. Of the 4 units in the park they were occupying 1.5 of them (I believe). There is at least 1 entire unit still unoccupied 9 months later. This is a unit which comes with a lot of parking spaces for employees and has easy access to the N40 (south link road), the N71 (Bandon road) and the N22 (Macroom Road). If a tenant can’t be found for that then I wonder what’s going to happen with all the of the multitude of office buildings that are in the pipeline, most of which are in city centre locations with little or no employee parking.

I think you may have answered the question yourself. Employee car parking is not obviously the huge attraction some people think it is when considering the location of employment. The key determinant is location, and increasingly workers are opting for the city centre environments, rather than isolated and peripheral suburban locations. We need to move away from this obsession with car parking.

cgcsb

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Abtran moved out of the University Technology park, on the Curraheen Road, last summer. Of the 4 units in the park they were occupying 1.5 of them (I believe). There is at least 1 entire unit still unoccupied 9 months later. This is a unit which comes with a lot of parking spaces for employees and has easy access to the N40 (south link road), the N71 (Bandon road) and the N22 (Macroom Road). If a tenant can’t be found for that then I wonder what’s going to happen with all the of the multitude of office buildings that are in the pipeline, most of which are in city centre locations with little or no employee parking.

Because they are different markets. You see this more in clearly in Dublin to be fair. The Facebooks of the world aren't looking for units in suburban office parks. Suburbia is for the Ebays, the insurance companies etc. The most notable exception to this is microsoft in Sandyford, who's building isn't worth comparing to anything else on the suburban market.

fiload

snotboogie wrote:

There was a new unit built in the Airport business park last year and it's still empty 6 months later. Similar spec to what you just described. I believe the idea is that your regular business park offices have a completely different clientele than the Grade A office space being built at the moment in the city centre and that the demand lies with the fancy new builds. So far they have been proven right, One Albert Quay and 85 South Mall are fully let. Navigation Sq phase 1 has 900k sq ft out of 106k sq ft pre let. The Capitol has been at 90% occupancy for the last 12 months.

Which building is this? I only know of one building recently built in the business park but it is occupied by a civil engineering company

snotboogie

fiload wrote: »

Which building is this? I only know of one building recently built in the business park but it is occupied by a civil engineering company

Directly across from Amazon. Are MMD occupying that? I thought they just built it. The car park is 90% empty whenever I’m up there.

fiload

snotboogie wrote:

Directly across from Amazon. Are MMD occupying that? I thought they just built it. The car park is 90% empty whenever I’m up there.

Yeah they are occupying it, not sure about the car park spaces but I'd guess that they would have a lot of people travelling to site and back.

kuro2k

cgcsb wrote: »

I don't think that's accurate. Where do the thousands of car commuters go for the day when they bring their cars into cities, they must park somewhere. Street parking is expensive and often difficult to find, it's not a realistic commuting option to find and pay for street parking. Much of the offic buildings predating the 1990s have lots of parking, this should be rationed, converted to other use and taxed mercilessly.

Can you list a few of the pre 90's office buildings in the city centre that have lots of free parking for employees?

cgcsb

kuro2k wrote: »

Can you list a few of the pre 90's office buildings in the city centre that have lots of free parking for employees?

Are you asking specifically about Cork? I don't know. They're definitely not depending on street parking on a daily basis anyway, that'd be at least €15 per day, €75 a week etc. plus no guarantee of getting a space.

If it were the case that the majority are parking on the street then rush hour traffic wouldn't be an issue in Cork. Also this presents a simple Oslo type solution. Remove almost all street parking, replace with bigger footpaths, cycle lanes and keep only a handful of disabled spaces and ecar charging points.

Better yet, do both, get rid of street parking and tax companies providing it by the space.

j8wk2feszrnpao

cgcsb wrote: »

Much of the offic buildings predating the 1990s have lots of parking

cgcsb wrote: »

Are you asking specifically about Cork? I don't know

Hang on, either you know of you don't. If there's so "much", you could at least name a few that have lots of parking.

Brussels Sprout

I think most people would agree that reducing the number of cars and parking spaces in the city is a good thing overall. In order to do this we’re going to have to put in place a number of things:

• Decent, reliable public transport that can get people in and out of the city centre from the suburbs and surrounding county towns
• Plentiful high density accommodation within the city centre to allow people to live car-free
• Safe, well-marked cycle lanes to encourage people to switch from cars to bikes.
• An orbital road that surrounds the entire city with multiple park & ride facilities that will allow people not served by public transport to commute from rural areas to the peripheries of the city

Right now we don’t have any of the above. Hopefully an influx of workers to the city centre in the next 5 years will force these issues to be resolved. My fear though is that it just compounds existing problems around traffic bottlenecks and makes life miserable for everyone in the city centre.

GavRedKing

cgcsb wrote: »

I don't think that's accurate. Where do the thousands of car commuters go for the day when they bring their cars into cities, they must park somewhere. Street parking is expensive and often difficult to find, it's not a realistic commuting option to find and pay for street parking. Much of the offic buildings predating the 1990s have lots of parking, this should be rationed, converted to other use and taxed mercilessly.

cgcsb wrote: »

Are you asking specifically about Cork? I don't know. They're definitely not depending on street parking on a daily basis anyway, that'd be at least €15 per day, €75 a week etc. plus no guarantee of getting a space.

If it were the case that the majority are parking on the street then rush hour traffic wouldn't be an issue in Cork. Also this presents a simple Oslo type solution. Remove almost all street parking, replace with bigger footpaths, cycle lanes and keep only a handful of disabled spaces and ecar charging points.

Better yet, do both, get rid of street parking and tax companies providing it by the space.

This is the definition of hearsay and conjecture.

You cant say buildings from the 90's are filled with car park spaces, then say you dont know if they are and then say workers are definitely not relying on on-street parking.

As an example, theres quiet a bit of free parking down around the marina and center park road, where people are parking from 6.30/7am onward and walking into town. On any given day, theres easily 50+ cars down there.

cgcsb

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Hang on, either you know of you don't. If there's so "much", you could at least name a few that have lots of parking.

My previous post was in the context of urban Ireland in general. I don't know that many office buildings in Cork. Although I'm certain Cork is no exception in that regard. Also the cars are going somewhere every day.

cgcsb

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I think most people would agree that reducing the number of cars and parking spaces in the city is a good thing overall. In order to do this we’re going to have to put in place a number of things:

• Decent, reliable public transport that can get people in and out of the city centre from the suburbs and surrounding county towns
• Plentiful high density accommodation within the city centre to allow people to live car-free
• Safe, well-marked cycle lanes to encourage people to switch from cars to bikes.
• An orbital road that surrounds the entire city with multiple park & ride facilities that will allow people not served by public transport to commute from rural areas to the peripheries of the city

Right now we don’t have any of the above. Hopefully an influx of workers to the city centre in the next 5 years will force these issues to be resolved. My fear though is that it just compounds existing problems around traffic bottlenecks and makes life miserable for everyone in the city centre.

You can't improve public transport without road space and at present cars are over catered for in terms of road space. A re-allocation has to happen

cgcsb

GavRedKing wrote: »

This is the definition of hearsay and conjecture.

You cant say buildings from the 90's are filled with car park spaces, then say you dont know if they are and then say workers are definitely not relying on on-street parking.

As an example, theres quiet a bit of free parking down around the marina and center park road, where people are parking from 6.30/7am onward and walking into town. On any given day, theres easily 50+ cars down there.

Is Cork exceptional in it's 60s 70s and 80s office buildings?

hans aus dtschl

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kuro2k wrote: »

Can you list a few of the pre 90's office buildings in the city centre that have lots of free parking for employees?

Mostly the public employee's buildings tbh.
Civil Reg Office
City Hall
Anglesea Street
College of Commerce
Beamish Site used to
Bridewell Garda Station
PJ Hegarty

j8wk2feszrnpao

cgcsb wrote: »

My previous post was in the context of urban Ireland in general. I don't know that many office buildings in Cork. Although I'm certain Cork is no exception in that regard. Also the cars are going somewhere every day.

In the Cork City Forum, you stated that much of the office buildings predating the 1990s have lots of parking, but then you said you don't know about Cork. Again, if there's so 'much', it should be easy to state some of the buildings.
If you just have an agenda to remove all cars from the city, ok. But loose statements with nothing to back it up just weakens your argument.

who_me

cgcsb wrote: »

Is Cork exceptional in it's 60s 70s and 80s office buildings?

Can't comment specifically on office buildings from that time period; but Cork city centre is very constrained due to being built on a group of river islets. With the small city blocks resulting from that, there's less space available for parking.

cgcsb

munstermagic11 wrote: »

If you just have an agenda to remove all cars from the city, ok.

Well, obvs.

cgcsb

Ok, lets assume office blocks don't have parking. Where do all the cars go between 9 and 4.30?

kuro2k

cgcsb wrote: »

Ok, lets assume office blocks don't have parking. Where do all the cars go between 9 and 4.30?

A lot of traffic entering the city is simply crossing the river due to a lack of a ring road around the city. Another factor is the number of schools located in the city center, the drop in traffic congestion is really noticeable during school holidays.

Private companies simply do not offer free employee parking unless you are very senior management. For public bodies it seem to be a right.

Nigel Fairservice

I saw a couple of lads poking around in old Specsavers on Cook Street today. I wonder if a new tenant is lined up.