Cork developments

marno21

who_me wrote: »

Has the article been taken down? The direct link isn't working for me, and I can't see the story on their site.

Correct link here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/cork-looking-up-as-cranes-set-to-dominate-city-skyline-at-developments-worth-1bn-846971.html

snotboogie there must be someone working for de paper reading your posts

chalkitdown1

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Good article in the independent!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-looking-up-as-cranes-set-to-dominate-city-skyline-at-developments-worth-1bn-471484.html

Link seems to not be working

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/cork-looking-up-as-cranes-set-to-dominate-city-skyline-at-developments-worth-1bn-846971.html

SleetAndSnow

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

Link seems to not be working

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/cork-looking-up-as-cranes-set-to-dominate-city-skyline-at-developments-worth-1bn-846971.html

fixed it. not really sure why that happened

rebs23

snotboogie wrote: »

June update

[ I couldn't find a crane count for Limerick but I believe the Hanging Gardens is under construction. Galway seems to have little interest in riding the current boom.
.

There are 2 working cranes in Limerick. 1 on the Hanging Gardens site (which will be coming down shortly if not down already?) and 1 on the IDA office project in Castletroy.
Interesting to note that 2 other cranes have been idle but left up at a private office site out by Northern Trust for the last 12 months. So the only development taking place in Limerick is funded by the public sector and hence an utter stagnation in private sector investment, except for the smaller stuff. You can't compete with City Hall!
The difference between the two cities is staggering and thankfully we have a number of strong property developers in Cork who have been and are investing as well as the new entrants.
Well done on the update OP and thanks for all this information in the one place. Cork has changed so much in the last few years and what is about to happen or just commenced is fantastic for the City.

marno21

Port of Cork at Ringaskiddy redevelopment tender award to BAM published:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=96864&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=2&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Have they got over the error in the tender?

Brussels Sprout

Seems like a lot of these developments are for office space and not very many for apartments. Surely this is just going to further squeeze the housing market in Cork. It's all good and well attracting thousands of high-end jobs to the city centre but those people need somewhere to live.

CHealy

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Seems like a lot of these developments are for office space and not very many for apartments. Surely this is just going to further squeeze the housing market in Cork. It's all good and well attracting thousands of high-end jobs to the city centre but those people need somewhere to live.

This argument has been exhausted and belongs in the Echo's Facebook page comments section.

Brussels Sprout

CHealy wrote: »

This argument has been exhausted and belongs in the Echo's Facebook page comments section.

I don't think it has. Dublin city centre is full of cranes erecting world class office space attracting high paying jobs. However a major constraint in attracting people to stay in the country is the lack of affordable housing. At the same time the higher purchasing power of those workers that do stay has a knock on affect all the way down the chain of the housing market with all of the lower earners being squeezed. By doing the exact same thing in Cork we're likely to end up with the exact same results.

CHealy

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I don't think it has. Dublin city centre is full of cranes erecting world class office space attracting high paying jobs. However a major constraint in attracting people to stay in the country is the lack of affordable housing. At the same time the higher purchasing power of those workers that do stay has a knock on affect all the way down the chain of the housing market with all of the lower earners being squeezed. By doing the exact same thing in Cork we're likely to end up with the exact same results.

The vast vast majority of new office space in Cork will be taken by companys either moving office, or by companys who will hire local either way. Office space for 5000 people does not mean there will be 5000 new people coming to live in Cork, if there was maybe 50 out of that number Id be surprised. Dublin and Cork cannot be compared, just like Limerick and Galway cant be compared to Cork, they are different levels. The docklands has already been earmarked for a serious amount of living space, is this city just supposed to stop and stand still while we wait the 15 years it will take to get to develop this?

If it was a problem, you can be sure the likes of JCD, BAM, O'Callaghans etc, wouldnt be after putting forward 1 Billion Euro worth of ongoing works and plans, these guys are serious operators, the amount of stress tests they do before even submitting a drawing is crazy.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Brussels Sprout

CHealy wrote: »

The vast vast majority of new office space in Cork will be taken by companys either moving office, or by companys who will hire local either way. Office space for 5000 people does not mean there will be 5000 new people coming to live in Cork, if there was maybe 50 out of that number Id be surprised.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that assertion. For example, if these companies are in the tech industries, which is quite likely, they'll have no choice but to hire mostly non-locals due to a lack of availability of suitably qualified candidates. At the same time any new hotels being built will likely require a lot of foreign workers who tend to make up the bulk of staff for those these days.

CHealy wrote: »

The docklands has already been earmarked for a serious amount of living space, is this city just supposed to stop and stand still while we wait the 15 years it will take to get to develop this?

Has it? I'm just going by the number of developments that are mentioned in that Examiner piece above and it seems to be disproportionately weighed toward office space and hotels. The only mention of non-student accommodation is for 240 apartments in the Horgan's Quay development and for an unspecified amount of units in the Custom House tower (if that even gets planning permission).

CHealy wrote: »

If it was a problem, you can be sure the likes of JCD, BAM, O'Callaghans etc, wouldnt be after putting forward 1 Billion Euro worth of ongoing works and plans, these guys are serious operators, the amount of stress tests they do before even submitting a drawing is crazy.

I don't really follow your logic here. The only concern for the builders is that they find suitable occupants for these buildings once they're complete. If there is a subsequent squeezing of the housing market they'll just go and build accommodation units next. However, that sort of reactionary planning and building is quite shortsighted and inefficient. It's the sort of thing that exacerbates boom and bust cycles and compounds the accommodation crisis.


What I'm suggesting is that instead of building 80% offices and 20% accommodation followed inevitably by the reverse mix a few years later why not go for a mix that is closer together to begin with.

rebs23

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd agree with that assertion. For example, if these companies are in the tech industries, which is quite likely, they'll have no choice but to hire mostly non-locals due to a lack of availability of suitably qualified candidates. At the same time any new hotels being built will likely require a lot of foreign workers who tend to make up the bulk of staff for those these days.



Has it? I'm just going by the number of developments that are mentioned in that Examiner piece above and it seems to be disproportionately weighed toward office space and hotels. The only mention of non-student accommodation is for 240 apartments in the Horgan's Quay development and for an unspecified amount of units in the Custom House tower (if that even gets planning permission).



I don't really follow your logic here. The only concern for the builders is that they find suitable occupants for these buildings once they're complete. If there is a subsequent squeezing of the housing market they'll just go and build accommodation units next. However, that sort of reactionary planning and building is quite shortsighted and inefficient. It's the sort of thing that exacerbates boom and bust cycles and compounds the accommodation crisis.


What I'm suggesting is that instead of building 80% offices and 20% accommodation followed inevitably by the reverse mix a few years later why not go for a mix that is closer together to begin with.

It's pretty simple really, if developers could make money by building apartments they would and reverse the mix.
You still need the scale of commercial developments though. Anyway I'd hate to spoil a good positive thread about all the developments happening.

AugustusMinimus

It would be much better if they could build taller with a lot of these buildings being commercial / residential / hotel mixes.

I think we should see some residential developments begin to kick off in the docklands in the next year or 2.

snotboogie

There are lots and lots of homes being built or going through planning, off the top of my head you have a major one ongoing in Carrigaline (600 homes I think), one got planning in Douglas for about 250 homes on the Nemo site and the Glanmire development for 600 homes is going through final appeals. There are dozens of other home developments which are either smaller or that I can't think of. As already pointed out these tend to be less sexy than a 15 storey office building, a Marriot hotel or mixed use docklands developments and get less media attention as a result.

marno21

The massive developments in Carrigaline and Glanmire are only going to create more congestion and are of little benefit to the city centre if they involve driving in. There are no car parks being built in the city to facilitate these and the roads are jammed as is.

They really need to get a move on with the Docklands but the Docklands isn't suitable for major development at the minute because the infrastructure isn't there. The widening of the two arteries through that area and the bridges really need to be advanced.

Have the Council made any movement on upgrading the roads around there?

who_me

marno21 wrote: »

The massive developments in Carrigaline and Glanmire are only going to create more congestion and are of little benefit to the city centre if they involve driving in. There are no car parks being built in the city to facilitate these and the roads are jammed as is.

They really need to get a move on with the Docklands but the Docklands isn't suitable for major development at the minute because the infrastructure isn't there. The widening of the two arteries through that area and the bridges really need to be advanced.

Have the Council made any movement on upgrading the roads around there?

Do you mean the roads through the docklands (e.g. Centre Park Road) ? I can't imagine that's going to happen any time soon, IIRC the area around that needs to be raised substantially (3 metres?) both to alleviate flooding and to deal with industrial toxins that have seeped in over time.

ofcork

Article on Tuesdays examiner RE development in cork with artists renditions of same including Camden quay.

snotboogie

Echo reporting that the Marquee site has been sold but development is a few years off, no official announcement:

Mr Aiken said he was told on Wednesday that the site had been sold, but this has yet to be officially confirmed. “But even if it is, I’d hope to get another few years out of the venue,” he said. “I’ve already booked acts for next year with this site in mind so hopefully we can still use it.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Good-news-for-gig-goers-as-Marquee-will-continue-to-rock-28f2a540-363a-4936-98b0-c07e650ec94b-ds

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

Echo reporting that the Marquee site has been sold but development is a few years off, no official announcement:

Mr Aiken said he was told on Wednesday that the site had been sold, but this has yet to be officially confirmed. “But even if it is, I’d hope to get another few years out of the venue,” he said. “I’ve already booked acts for next year with this site in mind so hopefully we can still use it.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Good-news-for-gig-goers-as-Marquee-will-continue-to-rock-28f2a540-363a-4936-98b0-c07e650ec94b-ds

Events Centre might be a suitable alternate

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

Echo reporting that the Marquee site has been sold but development is a few years off, no official announcement:

Mr Aiken said he was told on Wednesday that the site had been sold, but this has yet to be officially confirmed. “But even if it is, I’d hope to get another few years out of the venue,” he said. “I’ve already booked acts for next year with this site in mind so hopefully we can still use it.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Good-news-for-gig-goers-as-Marquee-will-continue-to-rock-28f2a540-363a-4936-98b0-c07e650ec94b-ds

Interesting that it's sold. IIRC, that was the site of the long-dead Atlantic Quarter proposal, but I hadn't heard about anything new since then.

I'd always thought it most likely that the docklands would be developed as is happening now - growing 'organically' out from the city centre; rather than a few massive developments in the middle of the docklands (Atlantic Quarter, Marina Commercial Park etc.) with the space between them filling up. So I'd love to hear why this site at the Eastern end has now been bought up. I guess it could just be someone investing in the site long-term given the docklands is starting to heat up.

AugustusMinimus

who_me wrote: »

Interesting that it's sold. IIRC, that was the site of the long-dead Atlantic Quarter proposal, but I hadn't heard about anything new since then.

I'd always thought it most likely that the docklands would be developed as is happening now - growing 'organically' out from the city centre; rather than a few massive developments in the middle of the docklands (Atlantic Quarter, Marina Commercial Park etc.) with the space between them filling up. So I'd love to hear why this site at the Eastern end has now been bought up. I guess it could just be someone investing in the site long-term given the docklands is starting to heat up.

That end of the Docklands will become quite attractive now with Pairc Ui Chaoimh built and MRina Park on the way. Could see a 2 pronged approach of development from either end.

If the new bridge got built there it would become very attractive.

who_me

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

That end of the Docklands will become quite attractive now with Pairc Ui Chaoimh built and MRina Park on the way. Could see a 2 pronged approach of development from either end.

If the new bridge got built there it would become very attractive.

Well, yeah, the bridge is the key (no pun intended).

Infrastructure projects obviously tend to have a much longer lead time, so it's always likely to be a bit of a wait-off. Developers don't want to build in the middle of an isolated industrial area not yet well served by the infrastructure; and it'd be tough to push through a costly bridge project especially when they're isn't currently much at either end.

I guess it's easy to see why development has tended to be creep/sprawl and not new landmark developments!

marno21

I see the Academy of Urbanism are having their annual congress in Cork shortly:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/cork-an-emergent-success-as-urban-outfit-comes-to-town-1.3526621

marno21

There is a full supplement on Cork developments in today's Sunday Business Post. Haven't read it yet but posting now as it's getting late and it is a Sunday if you want to get a copy

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

There is a full supplement on Cork developments in today's Sunday Business Post. Haven't read it yet but posting now as it's getting late and it is a Sunday if you want to get a copy

Anything new in it?

Port of Cork development started, it doesn't say much about the BAM dispute

BUNK1982

snotboogie wrote: »

Anything new in it?

Port of Cork development started, it doesn't say much about the BAM dispute

I flipped through it but didn't get a chance to read it properly - didn't see anything that hasn't been covered here.

Featured a bit more from CIT/ UCC and a lot on recent job announcements or hotel developments. Chamber of Commerce feature in it - no mention of things like the new flood defences which i think are a bad idea but that's another thread.

BUNK1982

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-80-million-port-of-cork-container-terminal-will-help-secure-cork-as-an-international-gateway-for-trade-1.3535272

This was on the news last night - really important step in freeing up the city centre.

AugustusMinimus

BUNK1982 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-80-million-port-of-cork-container-terminal-will-help-secure-cork-as-an-international-gateway-for-trade-1.3535272

This was on the news last night - really important step in freeing up the city centre.

There are actually people complaining about this. Where the hell do they expect a container terminal to go?

Inland?

TheChizler

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There are actually people complaining about this. Where the hell do they expect a container terminal to go?

Inland?

They're objecting to the motorway built to the terminal, not the terminal itself. I haven't heard any objections to the terminal anyway.

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

Anything new in it?

Port of Cork development started, it doesn't say much about the BAM dispute

Hadn't heard about the BAM issue before. They're really not making it easy on themselves, it's only helping paint a picture of them as 'bait and switch'ers.