Cork developments

Shedite27

marno21 wrote: »

The idea in Ireland of building a proper public transport system and then utilising the surrounding land for appropriately dense residential developments still seems to be far outside the box of thought.

I used to work for Metrolink in Vancouver (the public transport body) and most of their infrastructure was financed that way. They'd buy land to nowhere, build a line with stations, and then sell the suddenly valuable land for a huge profit.

snotboogie

Q1 Update


Under Construction


85-86 South Mall: JCD's 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18' KPMG to be anchor client and Forcepoint taking the remaining space. Fully let out. Tower crane taken down in October. Set to open in Jan 2018. Completed

https://twitter.com/RalphDepping/status/1105190189239058433



Navigation Square: An OCP four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3,000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19' Clearstream to be the anchor client. Phase 2 commenced in Sept 2018. Phase 1 undergoing final fit out






Penrose Dock: JCD's 7 and 9 floor 250,000 sq ft office development in the area bounded by Penrose quay, Railway street, Alfred street and Brian Boru street. Will be able to accomodate 2,250 workers. Submitted for planning at the end of May, decision due on 19th of July. Further information also requested. Further information supplied and planning granted on the 12th of September. Appeals allowed until the 11th of October. If this is not appealed JCD could be on site by Halloween. On site by the middle of October! Clearance work ongoing as of the end of October. We could see a crane by Christmas. Still no crane at the start of November but work progressing quickly. No crane in December but work still progressing. First tower crane up, Second tower crane base in place. A third crane will be erected later in the project. Planning amendment for the roof terrace: JCD states that discussions with prospective tenants for the proposed offices currently under construction on site, identified the potential for a south-facing roof top terrace to Building B, to take advantages of views over this part of the City and provide an enhanced amenity space for future employees






Horgan's Quay: A joint venture between BAM and Clarendon featuring over 400,000 sq feet of office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, a 136 bed hotel and 3,000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Appeal withdrawn in April. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in August with the office and apartments commencing in 2019. Probably worth noting that construction was set to start in August but as of the end of September nothing has happened. However the Hotel Clients Oakmount have already named the hotel The Dean so I would really expect serious construction to start in October or November. Serious site clearance began in October but the commencement of work form that was posted, stated a 26 week initial site contract to include all the required demolitions and site preparation work for the main construction. This means that it could be April next year before we see construction on site. Piling on the hotel has started. The site clearance line seemed to refer to the whole site. Expect a crane by Christmas! Not quite by Christmas but work is now ongoing on both the Hotel and the Office section of the development. Tower Crane erected on the site of the Dean. Two more cranes to come for the office development





Westfield Offices Ballincollig: Located on 6 acres Westfield Office Quarter comprises 5 individual buildings located within a landscaped development. In total the scheme has the potential to provide up to 264,000 sq ft of office accommodation with stand-alone buildings varying in size from 12,000 sq ft to 70,000 sq ft. Started site clearance in November. Construction began in December





Student :

• Bam's Beamish site (413 beds) has two tower cranes erected and began work on the office element at the end of October. Office element erected a third crane on the site in March 2019
  
  
  
• Student Hub in UCC has one tower crane up.
  
  
  

Residential

• 608 units, 496 houses and 112 apartments in Ballinglanna Glanmire, Ground and infrastructure works commenced on that project in Oct 2018, with a sales launch due next spring.
• 800 units, in the Janeville development in Carrigaline started in April 2017, 100-150 delivered per year. Now on Phase 3 with 111 units sold so far.
  

Other:

• Industrial projects: Johnson & Johnson (biggest construction project in Cork), MSD, Eli Lilly (all above 100 million).
• Container Terminal for the Port of Cork: €80 million container terminal for the Port of Cork in Ringaskiddy. will initially offer a 360m with 13m depth to allow larger ships to berth at Ringaskiddy. The development includes the construction of a 13.5-hectare terminal and associated buildings as well as two ship-to-shore gantry cranes and container handling equipment. It is anticipated that it will become operational by 2020.
• Credit Union has a surprisingly large construction scope:
  
  
  

There are currently 8 Tower Cranes up 4 from last quarter; 1 at the UCC Student Hub, 3 on the Beamish site, 1 at Navigation Square, 1 at Horgans Quay, 1 at Penrose Dock and 1 at Bishopstown Credit Union. The student Hub crane should come down in Q2. The two at the Beamish site may also come down. There will be four cranes added in the North Docks. I expect a slight raise in the count next quarter to between 9 and 11. Either way we should see double figures at some stage in Q2 for maybe the first time ever in the city.

snotboogie

Planning/Appealed

Mixed Use:

Sullivan's Quay: BAM's 12 storey, 180 bed, 47 metre, 4 star Hotel with 6 storey 120,000sq ft office space. Planning granted and immediately appealed. It is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. Full planning granted on June 29th. No start date for construction. Now three months with planning and little to no construction activity. Not time to get worried but one to keep an eye on. Strong rumours that this will not start until the event centre does. So expect a delay of at least 6 months. Essentially confirmed that this will not start until the Event centre does. The site was put up for sale in Q1 2019. BAM still want to build the development and are looking for owners not clients to operate the hotel (who are allegedly still on board)



Office:

The Prism: Time Square Construction's 15 storey, 70 metre, 60,000 sq ft office development on the triangle site on Clontarf Street. Planning lodged in the middle of May and a decision is due on the 10th of July. An Taisce objected on the 22nd of June. Further information requested on planning, however height doesn't seem to be an issue. Further information supplied on September the 17th a decision is due on the 8th of October. Planning approved, the mysterious O'Sullivan brothers are set "to comment" if this passes the appeal period.... An Taisce very likely to appeal, if they don't this has been given a tentative start date of Q2 2019. An Taisce went and appealed... Delayed proceedings until March next year at the best. No update on planning as of the end of March 2019.




City Gate Plaza: JCD submitted for planning permission for the construction of an office development at the former Ma/Comm Site. The proposed development includes two office buildings; Block A will be four floors Block B will be three floors over ground floor with terraces. The proposed development also includes a ground floor café and additional car parking. Decision due 28th of August. Planning has been resubmitted and a new decision is due on the 23rd of October. Further information requested. Planning permission granted on the 15th of Dec The one month wait on appeals will conclude in the middle of January. Got full planning approval in Jan however no word at all on this starting.

Hotel:

Parnell Place Hotel: 7flr, 165 bed hotel on Parnell Place and Deane Street. Submitted on Aug 6th, objections from residents on the 10th of Sept. Planning decision was due on the 26th of Sept. Further information requested. Information supplied in Nov with a decision due on Dec 3rd. Planning Permission Granted on the 3rd of Dec The one month wait on appeals will conclude at the start of January. Appealed to ABP in Jan, decision due in Q2




Morrison's Island Hostel: 192-bed hostel. The development will include the demolition of a currently vacant building on the site after planning was granted to applicant Eoin Sheehan. Planning granted on the 4th of September. No movement at all on this in Q1

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No appeals and got full permission in April. Construction on the M boutique hotel to start sometime in 2019 and the Metropole will start once the M is completed. I have a bad feeling about this one, we are now 6 months since full planning and no movement. I wouldn't be surprised to see this go the way of Merchants Quay. Rumours that the M is set to start in mid 2019. No movement at all in Q1

MacCurtain Street/York Street Hotel: 8 floor 73 bed hotel. Planning granted in March, appealed soon after and withdrawn at the end of April. Construction to start before the end of the year. Again nothing on this at all for 6 months. A poster on this thread has mentioned that the pre construction phase is underway. Rumoured to start in Q2 2019

71 South Mall: Planning has been sought for a new hotel at 71 South Mall with a rear building facing Morgan Street (and the improving of Morgan Street). The developers, South Mall Hospitality Ltd, are seeking permission to demolish the roof and upper floors of the four-storey limestone building that dates to the 1880s. Two new storeys would be added to create a five-storey structure. A new six-storey building would also be constructed to the rear of the premises fronting onto Morgan Street, the narrow lane alongside the Imperial Hotel.

Retail:

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, appealed with a decision due soon. (If somebody knows the date it would be great). No update on when the decision is due, again if somebody knows when this is due i'd love to hear. As of the end of July there is bizarrely still no update. Planning due on the 12th of September but has been indefinitely delayed. Surprise, surprise 3 more months and no decision from ABP

Merchants Quay: Has had planning permission since July 2015.The last article I found on it was from 2017 and said: It is understood that work won't begin until early next year to minimise disruption to shoppers over the coming Christmas shopping period, though sources close to the development are confident that the work will be finished by late 2018. New planning lodged in Feb 2019



Residential:

Jacobs Island Apartments: McCarthy Properties/Montip Horizon's 413 apartments across a couple of blocks ranging in size from 6 storeys to 9 storeys and one landmark 82.8m and 25 floor tower! This would be the tallest building in the state if constructed. Submitted for Planning with a decision due on October 10th. Planning permission granted and McCarthy Properties are now are "now engaging with our design team and development partners to bring forward the development as granted". I've heard that we won't see anything on site here until at least 2020. A December 2018 article stated "As if to punctuate the region’s ambitions, work on a landmark residential tower overlooking the estuary in the southern suburb of Mahon is set to get underway next year.".

• 446 units for Cairns Homes Properties, 259 houses and 182 apartments in Carr's Hill Douglas in fast track strategic planning. Told to ammend.
• 251 residential units in Grange with associated road works, decision yet to be made. Granted planning in March 2019
• 240 units (154 houses and 86 apartments) by Ardstone Homes Ltd in Bishopstown in fast track planning. Refused planning in March 2019
• 207 units submitted in Ballincollig in Nov 2018. Marked as invalid
• 203 units, 50 houses, 153 apartments on the Nemo site in Douglas approved in May
• 200 on the Good Shepard site
• 200 Units Glenveagh bought the unfinished Eden development in Blackrock for 9 million in Oct 2018. Reported as on site as of Dec 2018 by CIS but I haven't seen any reports of work being done myself.
• 180 units, 164 houses and 10 apartments in Glounthaune
• 162 residential units (74 no. houses and 88 no. apartments) in Banduff including a creche, 2 pedestrian bridges with pedestrian amenity paths, landscaping and all ancillary site development works
• 108 in Blarney units, gone for consultation
• 100 build to rent apartments in Ballintemple: were told to amend
• 99 units in Coolfadda, Bandon, Co. Cork
• 66 apartments in a 13 storey Tower in Glanmire 66 apartments, a restaurant and gym, two commercial units and three levels of basement parking with 102 spaces
  
  
  
• 19 Apartments approved in two towers; one 10-storeys tall and the other a six-storey structure - on a strategic site off Victoria Road, behind the under-construction Navigation Square office precinct.
  
  
  

Entertainment

Cork Events Centre: BAM's 6,000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Construction put back to Q1 2019 at the earliest pending new planning permission. Quite a lot of waffle in July but ultimately nothing happened. Planning submitted on Aug 10th with a decision due on October 4th. An taisce have objected and will almost certainly appeal if planning is granted. There is also the not so small hurdle of central government funding. Expect this to rumble into the new year.... More information requested at the start of October. Lets see if BAM respond before the new year... No news in Nov 2018. The additional funds were approved in Dec 2018 BAM now need to provide the additional information for planning and wait on a decision. Cork City council have started an investigation in the funding. Project back in limbo



Student accommodation:

The old Crows Nest site (250 beds) got planning in March for 10 and 8 storey student accommodation and should hopefully start at some stage this year, UCC expect it open for Sept 2020. Appointing contractor in Dec for start in mid Jan 2018. No start in Q1. Hopefully this will start in May 2019.

https://twitter.com/CISireland/status/1111656253049241600



Gainstar Limited Partnership's Coca-Cola site (600 beds) on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? Site has been sold to Future Generations who will submit planning for an increase to 600 beds and are hoping for a Q2 2019 start pending planning. Planning sought in Feb 2019, the proposed modifications include increasing the number of apartments on the site from 92 to 167 and bed spaces from 484 to 623. The height of the proposed buildings will increase from six to ten storeys and from four to seven storeys previously permitted. Decision due on the 8th of April



The Square Deal (228 beds) appeal was withdrawn and it now has full planning permission. Rumours are that this will be sold to another student accommodation provider who will submit planning for a larger development, possibly including the Off Licence site next to it.

Farranlea Road (145 beds) Has full planning permission as of July 2018. Sold to Round Rock Capital in Dec 2018 and it has been announced that this will immediately move to the construction phase. As of the end of Q1 2019 this had not started construction yet



Kelleher Tyres site on Victoria Cross Rd (124 beds) and their 5 storey apartment block were asked for further information, decision due on the 7th of August. Further information was requested in August


O’Riordans Joinery (418 beds) at the Lough was due for decision on the 24th of May but I've heard nothing? Permission granted on the 25th of Aug 2018. Developers have gone back to ABP at the end of Oct 2018 asking to increase beds to 418 ABP have ruled Is reasonable Application basis I have no idea what that means.... Final decision due in early May 2019



Industrial:

€130 million investment to be made to expand the Middleton Distillery

Public

Marina Park: Under construction with first phase to open in Q1 2019. I'm very sceptical. As of end of Oct 2018, nothing happening on site. In Nov 2019 they claimed they are looking for a contractor. Work due to start in march according to this article from Feb



Tramore Valley Park: Despite being mostly completed years ago the park remains in limbo with regard to an opening date. A few months ago Ann Doherty, chief executive of Cork City Council, said that the plan was to have the amenity open in ‘August or September.’ Now pushed back to 2019 or 2020, depending on funding. In Oct 2018 we got a new opening date of May 2019




Infrastructure:

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange: Tender for this project has been awarded to Sisk. Preliminary works are ongoing on site with full construction scheduled to begin in Q1 2019. The scheme is expected to take 3/4 years to complete due to the complex traffic management involved. Sisk however have begun a pre-planning consultation with An Bord Pleanala related to this scheme, so this may interfere with the current proposal for the project. No details on this amendment have been published yet.

M20 Cork-Limerick & M40 North Ring Road East: Consultants have now been appointed to carry this project through Phases 1-4 of TII's Project Management Guidelines (feasibility/project scope, route selection, design & EIS, statutory process) The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform announced in Sept that this scheme is expected to start in 2021 and open in 2025, however this appears extremely ambitious. Based on current projects going through the process, it is envisaged that the M20 will open in approx. 11-13 years (2030-2032). It is currently anticipated that a link from the M20 at Killeens to the M8 at Glanmire (the North Ring Road East), will be advanced in tandem with this project.

N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney: The prequal stage of this is now complete with invitations to tender being sent out in July 2018. At present, a tender award is expected (but not confirmed) in mid 2019 with a start soon after. Completion is expected to take 3 years.

N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton: This project is included in the National Development Plan having been suspended in 2011. The project has passed the pre-appraisal stage and consultants will be appointed to carry the project through Phases 1-4 of TII's PMG in 2019. The limited options and small nature of this scheme means it may go to construction within 3-4 years.

M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy: This project was approved in full by An Bord Pleanala in July 2018, and Cork County Council intend to begin land purchase and issue tenders for advance works in late 2018. However, a local militant anti-motorway group in Rochestown intend to seek a judicial review on the project, which in their belief will lead to the destruction of their community and widespread health issues due to noise and air pollution, although their solution is to route the motorway through Ballinhassig instead which would add around €400m to the cost of the project and add upto 25km of a round trip for vehicles. Judicial review was awarded in September 2018, set a nominal return date to court of 4th October 2018, but this is unlikely to be the start of the hearing as the plantiff & defendant will need time to prepare their cases. Most likely early next year before the hearing commences but we'll see what fast tracked means in the high court.

M40 Motorway Reclassification and ITS Upgrade: TII & Cork County Council are currently engaged with consultants on this which would see motorway regulations being applied to the N40 and ITS equipment ("smart motorway" equipment) including display VMSs being installed on the length of the M40 and approach roads such as the N27 and N71. The study is ongoing with phased implementation expected on an as of yet unknown timescale. Enabling works including communication ducting were carried out in Q4 2018, and contractors will be appointed to carry out the main works (including installation of gantries on the N40) in Q1 2019.

M40 North Ring Road East: This project was included in the National Development Plan and will be reactivated if there is a requirement to connect the M20 to the motorway network around Cork. The road remains a priority for people on the Northside (including Apple) but not to central Government.

R624 Cobh Road dualling: Cork County Council are applying to DTTAS to have this road upgraded to a national road and a portion of dual carriageway built along its length which will involve the construction of a 2nd dual carraigeway bridge onto Great Island. The project will be initially appraised under DTTAS new appraisal guidelines, with no timescale yet for delivery.

snotboogie

In Limbo

Public:

N22 Macroom-Ovens (bypassing Lissarda and Ovens), N25 Midleton-Youghal (bypassing Lakeview Roundabout, Castlemartyr and Killeagh, M40 North Ring Road West and N71 dualling all remain suspended.

Retail:

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. Planning resubmitted and a decision due on the 23rd of August. Planning granted and the site was put up for sale. We won't see anything for years on this now

Penny's Patrick Street: In Summer 2018 Lawrence Owens of the CBA said “This planning process has been going on for a long time,” “When it happens it will transform the area, and bring vibrancy in terms of the size and scale of the project. We are just hoping that this development, which has been mooted for two to three years, can happen sooner rather than later.” Don't hold your breath!

Office:
OCP's Anderson Quay (150,000 ft2/ 5 stories) Has had full planning since sometime in 2016. No updates in the last few years. Perhaps if The Prism was to go ahead we could see something at Anderson Quay? It could possibly be developed in conjunction with the smaller phase two of OCP's Navigation Square? According to OCP in this interview they now want to develop Anderson Quay as apartments but want to wait for more favorable market and regulatory conditions.

Stone Work Properties' Camden Quay (65,000 sq ft/ 5 stories): Demolition work finished in Jan 2017 with Stone Work claiming "that once demolition was complete, construction would take just 12 months"

Watfore Ltd's Trinity Quarter (240,000 sq ft/5 stories): Has had planning since 2015 with very little news since. The last I can find of it was a March 2015 article which said: "There was confirmation that a €50m six-storey office block which has planning permission on the former Brooks Haughton site on Copley St, South Terrace, is going ahead within months." Site Sold to UCC for the development of a Business school, this will not go ahead

All three office developments were mentioned in this article from August 2018.

Student Accommodation:


Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road (344 beds) has had planning for two years.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried. Planning application now due in Q1 2019. No planning in Q1 2019, we still wait...

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale in May. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity. Rumored to be a residential development with over 1,000 apartments. Sold to Glenveagh in June 2018 for over 15 million.

The Comer brother bought the nearby Tedcastle site for €15 million as well and are also planning residential most likely high density apartments. The Comer Brothers also bought a 3.3 acre warehouse building on the Centre Park/Monoghan Rd.

Glenveagh in Nov 2018 bought a 42 acre plot of land in Douglas for 22 million. It has planning for 200 houses on 19 acres but has a further 23 acre lot which is zoned for medium of high density. I would expect a new planning application for the entire site. We could see up to 500 units total here.

A 7 acre site on the South Douglas Rd went on sale at the start of Nov. It is zoned for high density apartments. Sold in Q1 2019 and 150 units are set to go for planning.

UCC Business School was announced on the site of Trintiy Quarter, we await planning

Transportation: A Cork light rail and/or BRT system got vague mentions in Ireland 2040 but its rumoured something more concrete will be announced at the end of the summer. Now pushed back to "sometime in October" with much more vague mentions of LRT and BRT.
Bus connects was allocated 200 million in funding in the 2040 plan.
The Eastern Gateway Bridge remains a concept

Going forward:

Updated best case schedule:

Q3 2018: Navigation Sq phase 2
Q4 2018: Horgan's Quay, Penrose Dock, Westfield Office
Q1 2019: Nothing
Q2 2019: Crows Nest, Farranlea Road Student, York Street Hotel, Coca Cola Student
Q3 2019: Victoria Hotel, Kelleher Tyre's Student, Morrison's Island Hostel, O’Riordans Joinery Student, The Prism, The M, Jacobs Island, Parnell Place Hotel
Q4 2019: Events Centre, Sullivan's Quay, City Gate Plaza

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At least they usually have some kind of road infrastructure, no ideal but present.
Glanmire doesn't even have capacity to put in a road.

Most of Glanmire is very close to dunkettle, and there's just about space to put in a public transport corridor to there.. If the will was there, now as to how you'd go from there... Any chance a tram or Brt could share the same space as heavy rail, and continue on into the city?

Posted about this development at Ardarostig in Bishopstown over Christmas. As I expected it has been refused. I live nearby and could see that the traffic plan had not been considered properly and there was nothing like the road infrastructure in place to cope with the volume of traffic it would generate.

Plonking a massive estate out a small country road with no pedestrian or cycling access to the city was never going to fly with planners. Thankfully lessons seem to have been learned from Leghanamore.

The area just out the Waterfall Road will inevitably be developed down the line but it should only happen if the road network and infrastructure is radically improved.

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/directions/303/S303137.pdf

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Most of Glanmire is very close to dunkettle, and there's just about space to put in a public transport corridor to there.. If the will was there, now as to how you'd go from there... Any chance a tram or Brt could share the same space as heavy rail, and continue on into the city?

How would you fit that, without disrupting the road to Mayfield. You can't treat it as if Dunkettle is the only destination.
Glanmire shouldn't be a development heavy area

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How would you fit that, without disrupting the road to Mayfield. You can't treat it as if Dunkettle is the only destination.
Glanmire shouldn't be a development heavy area

Well, yes your right, glanmire shouldn't have been developed the way it has been, but it is what it is.
Dunkettle isn't a destination, it's a potential link...
What do you suggest?

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Well, yes your right, glanmire shouldn't have been developed the way it has been, but it is what it is.
Dunkettle isn't a destination, it's a potential link...
What do you suggest?

Stop putting more there!

With the slips going in, it will help dunkettle traffic and relieve Glanmire. Adding more development will be insane though

Shedite27

What people consider Glanmie these days has realistically changed to what would have been RIverstown 20mns ago. There's no space in Old Glanmire, with the steep hills on both sides of a river.

Riverstown, while lacking a centre, will develop further north and east in my opinion, with further estates around Brooklodge and Sarsfield Court. Both of these will be close to the "North Ring Road" and I could see another exit at Brooklodge eventually.

While it's not perfect, it's close to the city, and one of the mst desirable addresses on the less-developed Northside.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tenants-facing-eviction-from-tallaght-complex-take-case-to-rtb-1.3841496?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR3Tn_k2u93M1CuL39VLFzi3xJpJFTCOMfviXHU5-NzQDC0Q_usliHn0MNM

To change tack a second.
This is exactly why we have a resistance to renting (aparments especially), in this country. There is no security of home.

Cork will face similar without strict laws about tenure and long term letting.

Edit: I'm actually really concerned about the retired homeless crisis, which is coming. Given the complete lack of social housing (thanks FG) and lax laws, what are the hundreds of thousands of people going to do, in the private rental sector, once they retire?

snotboogie

Interesting

https://twitter.com/corkcranecount/status/1112422310135455744?s=21

kub

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tenants-facing-eviction-from-tallaght-complex-take-case-to-rtb-1.3841496?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR3Tn_k2u93M1CuL39VLFzi3xJpJFTCOMfviXHU5-NzQDC0Q_usliHn0MNM

To change tack a second.
This is exactly why we have a resistance to renting (aparments especially), in this country. There is no security of home.

Cork will face similar without strict laws about tenure and long term letting.

Edit: I'm actually really concerned about the retired homeless crisis, which is coming. Given the complete lack of social housing (thanks FG) and lax laws, what are the hundreds of thousands of people going to do, in the private rental sector, once they retire?

I would be thanking FF more if i were you, when the boom was on the provision of social housing developments dried up.

kub

kub wrote: »

I would be thanking FF more if i were you, when the boom was on the provision of social housing developments dried up.

Is there really a difference?

hans aus dtschl

Deleted User wrote: »

Stop putting more there!

With the slips going in, it will help dunkettle traffic and relieve Glanmire. Adding more development will be insane though

I'm not sure we can get away with stopping development of Glanmire now. The best to hope for is an increase in density and an end to the sprawl.

Are you talking about the Silversprings slip roads? The works here have been some of the worst I've seen in a long time.

Westbound-
80kmh for mainline traffic. The design is effectively "first stop vulnerable users and then make them dash across the slip road". A fully segregated route could/should have just gone under the ramp here. Otherwise just signalise it at the bottom of the ramp. It's a death trap right now.

Eastbound-
Worse. No provision of any kind whatsoever for vulnerable road users. The design is "motorised traffic only". People are expected to dash across the ramps on this side without even a zebra crossing.

If you're talking about the Dunkettle interchange, the new design will likely send more northside traffic via Glanmire unfortunately. The upgraded junction sees the Dublin-Cork traffic travelling vis the little Island Interchange. Which, since it's gridlocked every morning, I would expect people to avoid.

Shedite27

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I'm not sure we can get away with stopping development of Glanmire now. The best to hope for is an increase in density and an end to the sprawl.

Are you talking about the Silversprings slip roads? The works here have been some of the worst I've seen in a long time.

Westbound-
80kmh for mainline traffic. The design is effectively "first stop vulnerable users and then make them dash across the slip road". A fully segregated route could/should have just gone under the ramp here. Otherwise just signalise it at the bottom of the ramp. It's a death trap right now.

Eastbound-
Worse. No provision of any kind whatsoever for vulnerable road users. The design is "motorised traffic only". People are expected to dash across the ramps on this side without even a zebra crossing.

If you're talking about the Dunkettle interchange, the new design will likely send more northside traffic via Glanmire unfortunately. The upgraded junction sees the Dublin-Cork traffic travelling vis the little Island Interchange. Which, since it's gridlocked every morning, I would expect people to avoid.

I reckon there's something incorrect in pretty much every sentence.

The Westbound silversprings is 60km

Bottom of the ramp (from Mayfield going west) now has it's own lane so there's no merging to be done anymore.

Eastbound now has bike lanes. There's nothing on that side of the road that needs a footpath.

The new Dunkettle layout will be quicker to get through (Dublin-Cork direction) as it cuts out the big roundabout, not a hope anyone will go through Glanmire.

timmyjimmy

Shedite27 wrote: »

I reckon there's something incorrect in pretty much every sentence.

The Westbound silversprings is 60km

Bottom of the ramp (from Mayfield going west) now has it's own lane so there's no merging to be done anymore.

Eastbound now has bike lanes. There's nothing on that side of the road that needs a footpath.

The new Dunkettle layout will be quicker to get through (Dublin-Cork direction) as it cuts out the big roundabout, not a hope anyone will go through Glanmire.

There are no bike lanes going east bound. 4 of us cycled along here last Saturday and it is really unclear where a cyclist is supposed to go. It may be the case that a bike lane will be put be put down but it in it's current state, it's an accident waiting to happen.

hans aus dtschl

Shedite27 wrote: »

I reckon there's something incorrect in pretty much every sentence.

The Westbound silversprings is 60km

Bottom of the ramp (from Mayfield going west) now has it's own lane so there's no merging to be done anymore.

Eastbound now has bike lanes. There's nothing on that side of the road that needs a footpath.

The new Dunkettle layout will be quicker to get through (Dublin-Cork direction) as it cuts out the big roundabout, not a hope anyone will go through Glanmire.

It's been increased from 60kmh to 80kmh in the last review, Q3 2018. The 60kmh limit begins under the overpass.

There are no lanes or crossings whatsoever Eastbound. Vulnerable users have to cross the ramp.

The new Dunkettle layout will be no quicker for anyone going from (for instance) Watergrasshill to Mayfield or Fermoy to Apple. They'll have a choice between an approx. 3km detour through the Little Island traffic and a dumbell interchange or taking the slip road at Watergrasshill or Sarsfield's Court, both of which are shorter and faster for them.


Edit: Look, maybe you just didn't read my post correctly, but if you're going to accuse me of being incorrect, please be specific and accurate. What you were saying about the speed limits WAS correct until recently, but there have been changes. See drawings sheets 48 and 49 here, unfortunately I don't have the as-built:
http://speedlimits.ie/data/documents/Cork-City-Road-Traffic-Special-Speed-Limits-Maps.pdf

hans aus dtschl

timmyjimmy wrote: »

There are no bike lanes going east bound. 4 of us cycled along here last Saturday and it is really unclear where a cyclist is supposed to go. It may be the case that a bike lane will be put be put down but it in it's current state, it's an accident waiting to happen.

I can confirm, having talked to the Council engineers, that there is currently no plan to remedy this poor design.
The external safety review/approval was last Wednesday: it's unclear still how it went.

Westbound isn't as bad as Eastbound but it's still almost unusable. It's a case of stop-and-hope. I suspect most cyclists will simply avoid using this infrastructure.

Shedite27

timmyjimmy wrote: »

There are no bike lanes going east bound. 4 of us cycled along here last Saturday and it is really unclear where a cyclist is supposed to go. It may be the case that a bike lane will be put be put down but it in it's current state, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Had to look on the way home tonight to make sure I wasn't going mad. The bike lane ends about 50m before the junction and goes up onto the footpath.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

It's been increased from 60kmh to 80kmh in the last review, Q3 2018. The 60kmh limit begins under the overpass.

There are no lanes or crossings whatsoever Eastbound. Vulnerable users have to cross the ramp.

The new Dunkettle layout will be no quicker for anyone going from (for instance) Watergrasshill to Mayfield or Fermoy to Apple. They'll have a choice between an approx. 3km detour through the Little Island traffic and a dumbell interchange or taking the slip road at Watergrasshill or Sarsfield's Court, both of which are shorter and faster for them.

Edit: Look, maybe you just didn't read my post correctly, but if you're going to accuse me of being incorrect, please be specific and accurate. What you were saying about the speed limits WAS correct until recently, but there have been changes. See drawings sheets 48 and 49 here, unfortunately I don't have the as-built:
http://speedlimits.ie/data/documents/Cork-City-Road-Traffic-Special-Speed-Limits-Maps.pdf

Again, had a look this evening, the 60km starts after the junction, if all going at the speed limits, I find it very manageable junction these days (far better than before with the merging)

I really don't think anyone is going to go through Riverstown and Mayfield rather than going the normal route. The worst part about that journey currently is getting onto the Tunnel roundabout, that'll be skipped now and the cork-bound traffinc moved to 150m left. It's a new junction they're building to turn around at, not the current little island junction.

I assume with the plans for Tivoli Docks, the Tivoli flyover will have to have a fairly substancial upgrade, hopefully they'll do it right whenever they do that (access roads will have to be one of the first things they do)

timmyjimmy

Shedite27 wrote: »

Had to look on the way home tonight to make sure I wasn't going mad. The bike lane ends about 50m before the junction and goes up onto the footpath.
)

Which junction are we talking about? I drive past here everyday and cycle occasionally. As far as i'm aware, there are no cycling lanes going eastbound. There is a new cycling lane going westbound which starts on the road, mounts the footpath and then comes up to new zebra crossing on the road up to Mayfield.

hans aus dtschl

Shedite27 wrote: »

Had to look on the way home tonight to make sure I wasn't going mad. The bike lane ends about 50m before the junction and goes up onto the footpath.

Again, had a look this evening, the 60km starts after the junction, if all going at the speed limits, I find it very manageable junction these days (far better than before with the merging)

I really don't think anyone is going to go through Riverstown and Mayfield rather than going the normal route. The worst part about that journey currently is getting onto the Tunnel roundabout, that'll be skipped now and the cork-bound traffinc moved to 150m left. It's a new junction they're building to turn around at, not the current little island junction.

I assume with the plans for Tivoli Docks, the Tivoli flyover will have to have a fairly substancial upgrade, hopefully they'll do it right whenever they do that (access roads will have to be one of the first things they do)

By any chance are you confusing eastbound with westbound? There is no bike lane whatsoever Eastbound. Project drawings are available here: https://www.dunkettle.ie/gallery-silversprings


People already are going to the Northside via Riverstown at the moment. Even more are going through Rathcooney and Upper Glanmire. Look at it any weekday morning from 0700 onwards people are exiting the motorway in their droves to rat-run to the northside. I know plenty of people doing it! Just think where they have to go after Dunkettle... the Tivoli dual carriageway...so it's significantly shorter and faster for them to avoid Dunkettle completely now, and it will still be in the future.

The new junction WILL be the Little Island junction: it will be the primary junction for the traffic entering Little Island from the west and North. Why on earth would people drive past the junction?

I agree wholeheartedly about what you're saying about the plan for the Tivoli Docks but I don't think they'll fix the cycle lane then either. From what I've been told, the current "daydream" type plan is to create a greenway by the riverbank instead and bring all East-West cycle/pedestrian traffic through that corridor and on through millennium garden (Tivoli Skew Bridge). Which IMO is a nice plan, just a long way off.

Edit: Look, I cycle and I drive. I'd really rather the council didn't do any of this "cycling and pedestrian" infrastructure because they're building stuff that's unusable and obviously doing it without consulting any end users. It's a complete waste of time and in some cases like this it's making the roads more dangerous for the vulnerable users. I suspect they're simply funding road improvement and resurfacing schemes using sustainable transport grants.

Shedite27

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Which junction are we talking about? I drive past here everyday and cycle occasionally. As far as i'm aware, there are no cycling lanes going eastbound. There is a new cycling lane going westbound which starts on the road, mounts the footpath and then comes up to new zebra crossing on the road up to Mayfield.

Sorry, mixing up my eastbound and westbound

Markcheese

A lot of the time, (especially coming up to junctions,like the tivoli east bound ), it'd be better for vehicle speeds to be restricted, and lanes to be wider, so the bikes can get in lane too.
The bike lanes that end in a pedestrian crossing, or pass through a busy bus stop are just daft, and arent going to get used by regular commuter cyclists..

hans aus dtschl

Shedite27 wrote: »

Sorry, mixing up my eastbound and westbound

It finally all makes sense!

So you're saying it's not so bad now Westbound:
OK, it's definitely better for some vulnerable users (pedestrians). But worse for some (anyone moving at cycling pace):
It's more dangerous now to continue straight-on because the new alignment has a higher limit and they now need to get into the "overtaking" lane on the dual carriageway. Otherwise, using the new cycleway, they have to stop to wait for a gap in traffic, then cross a painted road with a gradient and two sets of "blind bumps" (tactile pavement). Which, in cleats for instance, would be a nightmare and they'd be well advised to avoid.
Neither is ideal.

Eastbound, I think you can now see what we're saying: simply more dangerous for vulnerable users than before. No upside whatsoever here.

hans aus dtschl

Markcheese wrote: »

A lot of the time, (especially coming up to junctions,like the tivoli east bound ), it'd be better for vehicle speeds to be restricted, and lanes to be wider, so the bikes can get in lane too.
The bike lanes that end in a pedestrian crossing, or pass through a busy bus stop are just daft, and arent going to get used by regular commuter cyclists..

No prizes for guessing what the primary motivator is: "increasing vehicle throughput".
But they're only marginally increasing motorised vehicle throughput and then discouraging sustainable transport modal share, which increases congestion overall. It's an out-of-date mindset and we should know better now. But sadly this is repeated all across Cork, project after project.

Anteayer

They need to put some clearer signage on the approach to Tivoli inbound. I’ve encountered some very odd last minute turns into the right lane when people realise that they need to be in that lane to go to the city center. I’ve even seen a van reverse back into traffic on the ramp to the flyover.

It should say CITY multiple times on the right lane.
N8 means nothing to a lot of drivers.

Markcheese

I was at tivoli at 8ish a few weeks ago when an ambulance came up heading into the city , blue lights on, and had to just sit there..
The lanes are narrow, with concrete dividers, no one could pull over... Struck me as a bit of a stupid design really...

timmyjimmy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

It finally all makes sense!

So you're saying it's not so bad now Westbound:
OK, it's definitely better for some vulnerable users (pedestrians). But worse for some (anyone moving at cycling pace):
It's more dangerous now to continue straight-on because the new alignment has a higher limit and they now need to get into the "overtaking" lane on the dual carriageway. Otherwise, using the new cycleway, they have to stop to wait for a gap in traffic, then cross a painted road with a gradient and two sets of "blind bumps" (tactile pavement). Which, in cleats for instance, would be a nightmare and they'd be well advised to avoid.
Neither is ideal.

Eastbound, I think you can now see what we're saying: simply more dangerous for vulnerable users than before. No upside whatsoever here.

For the life of me, I can't figure why they are encouraging people to cycle into the city and make it more dangerous for people leaving the city.

Little Island really isn't far from the city. I've cycled from St. Lukes to the Radisson in Little Island a few times and it took me just over 20 mins, pretty much the same the length of time or quicker than in my car. It really is some low hanging fruit to alleviate some of the traffic problems in Little Island.

hans aus dtschl

timmyjimmy wrote: »

For the life of me, I can't figure why they are encouraging people to cycle into the city and make it more dangerous for people leaving the city.

The only thing that I can think of is that they're just using the sustainable transport grants as resurfacing funds. Same thing out in Wilton, it's another dog's dinner, but the road is smooth.

timmyjimmy wrote: »

It really is some low hanging fruit to alleviate some of the traffic problems in Little Island.

This type of thinking is alien to them. I've been variously told by some of the design teams: "hopefully nobody will use it" in reference to bad scheme about to break ground soon..."what about the people driving?" in reference to the narrowing of the footpaths to widen the traffic lanes... and "Well I certainly wouldn't cycle it" in reference to another scheme about to start. These were by the people tasked with designs themselves.

It's cars or nothing, at the moment.