Cork developments

Outkast_IRE

You would find the whole argument on the "Walls" vs "Tidal Barrier" is getting skewed massively by the Save the Lee crowd essentially running their mouths looking for "likes" on social media.



If you take an independent unbiased view of the two options you would see there are pros and cons to both exercises . The costing exercise on the tidal barrier is incredibly suspect to say the least, there is no value in construction in this country at the moment , every construction tender is coming in 10% higher each year over the last 5 years.



I think there is of course a strong argument for more to be done up river with regards to restoring flood plains , improving planting of native trees in the water catchment areas etc. But the save the lee crowd have oversold the height of the walls , yes they will be high in a few key areas that currently flood almost every year, but i would have no issue with the changes in the majority of areas.

Apogee

snotboogie wrote: »

Gainstar Limited Partnership's Coca-Cola site (600 beds) on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? Site has been sold to Future Generations who will submit planning for an increase to 600 beds and are hoping for a Q2 2019 start pending planning. Planning sought in Feb 2019, the proposed modifications include increasing the number of apartments on the site from 92 to 167 and bed spaces from 484 to 623. The height of the proposed buildings will increase from six to ten storeys and from four to seven storeys previously permitted. Decision due on the 8th of April

Echo wrote:

A planning decision on Cork's largest student apartment development has been delayed after City Hall planners sought further information on the project. London company Future Generation has plans to build a flagship 600-bed accommodation scheme on the former Coca-Cola bottling site. Planners have asked the company to show how a bus lane, cycle path and footpath can be built in front of the building while maintaining the two-way carriageway for vehicles.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Planners-want-more-information-on-cola-factory-student-apartment-plans-0ed9a515-12ec-4b46-be02-8b1f2ad9b5f7-ds

Markcheese

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Tidal barrier is an absolute no brainier.

If the tidal barrier has the ability to keep water levels at even mid tide, then it is basically impossible for cork city to flood given that the tide affects all areas in the city centre.

The walls scheme is madness.

A tidal barrier isn't simple, and not without issues, (or advantages either),
All The Quay walls could do with a serious upgrade anyway, but I'm a bit wary of the OPW s, all singing all dancing, multi billion, multi decade project, to stop once in 5 year or 1 in 10 year floods of the city centre, (and I think this only handles tidal flooding not river flooding on the western end of the cities...

Wouldn't it be simple to insist that all buildings in at risk areas need flood barriers on doors, and non return valves on drainage pipes...

snotboogie

If anybody has an account for the Sunday Business Post I’d love to know how they count the “rural” cranes

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/cranewatch-highlights-dublin-rural-divide-441101

cantalach

snotboogie wrote: »

If anybody has an account for the Sunday Business Post I’d love to know how they count the “rural” cranes

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/cranewatch-highlights-dublin-rural-divide-441101

Maybe they mean these guys.

ofcork

I see Dublin have got planning for the tallest building in the country maybe we might get our one now!

ofcork

ofcork wrote: »

I see Dublin have got planning for the tallest building in the country maybe we might get our one now!

What they have is more An Taisce wankfoolary

Rhys Essien

snotboogie wrote: »

If anybody has an account for the Sunday Business Post I’d love to know how they count the “rural” cranes

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/cranewatch-highlights-dublin-rural-divide-441101

A very sad reminder of the serious imbalance in the country. This can't be a good thing for the country going forward. I'd like to know why no politicians are highlighting this in the Dail or Seanad.

Shedite27

Rhys Essien wrote: »

A very sad reminder of the serious imbalance in the country. This can't be a good thing for the country going forward. I'd like to know why no politicians are highlighting this in the Dail or Seanad.

What's the count?

snotboogie

Shedite27 wrote: »

What's the count?

They gave 123 for Dublin, 7 for Cork and 2 for Limerick and Galway each. They got the Cork count wrong, there are 9 in the city and 1 in the county that I know of. I think there are a few other cranes dotted around the country too.

kub

snotboogie wrote: »

If anybody has an account for the Sunday Business Post I’d love to know how they count the “rural” cranes

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/cranewatch-highlights-dublin-rural-divide-441101

Did the writer actually say the words rural cranes ?


If so that is some guy or girl who has only traveled as far as Kildare and thinks the rest of this country is rolling countryside.


Isn't that so innocent ?

cgcsb

In Ireland, or rather in Irish journalism, there's a really weird nomenclature around the words 'rural' and 'urban', that doesn't exist in the rest of the english speaking world. Recently in the papers there were a few articles about 'rural towns', an Italian colleague of mine asked me to explain what this means, and to be honest I could not. I'm not confident that the people who write these things understand them either. It's one of those cases of undefined informal and non specific language making it's way into formal settings such as newspaper articles. Irish politicians also claim to represent 'Rural Ireland', despite their constituencies being home to quite large urban areas.

Perhaps if we look at other countries that are effectively city-states, e.g. Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Finland, the Baltics, Czechia etc and see how they define these things, but unfortunately I've no knowledge of these languages.

who_me

Rhys Essien wrote: »

A very sad reminder of the serious imbalance in the country. This can't be a good thing for the country going forward. I'd like to know why no politicians are highlighting this in the Dail or Seanad.

It's surely going to make future policy more and more awkward, with Dublin and its environs overheating, leading to housing shortages, ever-worsening traffic, overcrowding on public transport, spiralling cost of living.

And in much of the rest of the country, you have relative stagnation.

To some extent what they can do is limited, given it's private investment that's needed. And the bigger Dublin becomes, the more attractive it is as a target for recruitment and investment, making it even bigger and more attractive.. But they certainly could look to push on with transport and infrastructural improvements. And at some point the cost-of-living differences between Dublin and other cities should help push some to move to reduce costs.

who_me

who_me wrote: »

It's surely going to make future policy more and more awkward, with Dublin and its environs overheating, leading to housing shortages, ever-worsening traffic, overcrowding on public transport, spiralling cost of living.

And in much of the rest of the country, you have relative stagnation.

To some extent what they can do is limited, given it's private investment that's needed. And the bigger Dublin becomes, the more attractive it is as a target for recruitment and investment, making it even bigger and more attractive.. But they certainly could look to push on with transport and infrastructural improvements. And at some point the cost-of-living differences between Dublin and other cities should help push some to move to reduce costs.

Ireland has a problem with not planning to build something until it is already needed, rather than planning/building ahead.
As such no comany wants to be in Cork/Limerick/Waterford and risk stagnation of infrastructural projects

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

It's surely going to make future policy more and more awkward, with Dublin and its environs overheating, leading to housing shortages, ever-worsening traffic, overcrowding on public transport, spiralling cost of living.

And in much of the rest of the country, you have relative stagnation.

To some extent what they can do is limited, given it's private investment that's needed. And the bigger Dublin becomes, the more attractive it is as a target for recruitment and investment, making it even bigger and more attractive.. But they certainly could look to push on with transport and infrastructural improvements. And at some point the cost-of-living differences between Dublin and other cities should help push some to move to reduce costs.

In fairness, despite my frustrations with the many stalled projects, Cork is not doing terribly. I followed this debate on twitter and it was mentioned that if Cork was in the US it would make the top 20 cities in terms of the crane count, beating out cities like Phoenix. I had a quick look myself and if you compare us to New Zealand, probably our closest comparison as a nation (and they are also experiencing a construction boom), Cork isn't doing that badly for a city with 210k:

Auckland 90 pop 1.6 million
Christchurch 22 pop 400k
Queenstown 10 pop 15k
Wellington 8 pop 420k
Tauranga 6 pop 140k
Dunedin 2 pop 120k
Hamilton 2 pop 240k

My frustration lies with how much better we could be doing rather than how badly we are doing.

who_me

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland has a problem with not planning to build something until it is already needed, rather than planning/building ahead.
As such no comany wants to be in Cork/Limerick/Waterford and risk stagnation of infrastructural projects

Yeah, considering the lead-times with infrastructural projects in comparison with private housing/office developments, they really do need to pre-empt future needs.

You can't tell someone "Hey, you should move to Cork! Don't bring/buy a car, as we hope to have light rail in 15-20 years' time."

who_me

who_me wrote: »

"Hey, you should move to Cork! Don't bring/buy a car, as we hope to have light rail in 15-20 years' time."

What the recruitment firms will script in a batch emails to highly saught after candidates.

adding

Yours Sincerely

Jonny Recruitment Guy

at the end.

Apogee

Echo wrote:

UP to 300 student bed spaces could be delivered under proposals for an apartment building on a derelict site on North Main Street. The property at 96 North Main Street was bought by City Hall in May of last year. It has been derelict for almost two decades and is considered one of the worst eyesores in the city centre. The council has been approached by developers, Panterlee Ltd, who own the adjoining properties at 92-95 North Main Street with a view to developing the entire site. A report by City Hall chief executive Ann Doherty states that Panterlee Ltd has requested that the council disposes of number 96 to allow the apartments to be built.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/300-student-bed-spaces-planned-for-derelict-North-Main-Street-site--96cadfc6-aad9-4d04-99a3-768548ed1645-ds

high horse

Any word on the M28? I believe that the judicial review was to be concluded on the 5th of April

marno21

high horse wrote: »

Any word on the M28? I believe that the judicial review was to be concluded on the 5th of April

Decision in 4-6 weeks as per the NIMBYs.

mire

Interesting to see another planning application submitted for the site immediately to the west of Penrose dock. Two buildings, one 6 and one 7 storey facing Penrose quay and one facing Alfred street. Including a cafe on the ground floor facing Alfred street. And two basement levels. As far as I know, this is not JCD

marno21

mire wrote: »

Interesting to see another planning application submitted for the site immediately to the west of Penrose dock. Two buildings, one 6 and one 7 storey facing Penrose quay and one facing Alfred street. Including a cafe on the ground floor facing Alfred street. And two basement levels. As far as I know, this is not JCD

https://planning.corkcity.ie/AppFileRefDetails/1938338/0

Looks to be 7 and 8 stories. Great stuff - ideally located close to the bus and train station

marno21

Echo article on the new Penrose Quay development

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/New-office-development-proposed-for-Penrose-Quay-c2a9cc57-923f-420b-a450-5abc8823f142-ds

snotboogie

Apogee wrote: »

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/300-student-bed-spaces-planned-for-derelict-North-Main-Street-site--96cadfc6-aad9-4d04-99a3-768548ed1645-ds

Reading that Echo article the developers seem to have a long uphill battle on their hands with city hall.

Treehelpplease

marno21 wrote: »

Echo article on the new Penrose Quay development

Any pictures?

Roger Hassenforder

snotboogie wrote: »

Reading that Echo article the developers seem to have a long uphill battle on their hands with city hall.

Not sure would that be best utilised with student accommodation

Beamishh

It will forever annoy me that the city council (open to correction) insists on scanning files. Why but just ask for a pdf and let the rest of us see a CGI as intended? Seems like a colossal waste of time to have someone scan hard copies of everything

Beamishh

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Not sure would that be best utilised with student accommodation

It's meters away from the Beamish and Crawford site so why wouldn't it be appropriate? Would bring some much needed footfall to North main Street

MrDerp

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Not sure would that be best utilised with student accommodation

Looks like everything from the north/south Main Street axis West to carrigrogane will be student accommodation. There’s a new CBD emerging in the east of the city centre, and it was one of the pleas by a group campaigning for a south main st Events centre that the core of the city centre would move from historic Cork (and, more importantly, their existing businesses which stood to benefit).

While there’s a certain loss of character, the area is degenerated beyond any likely major retail investment so footfall is to be welcomed in what’s a dark enough corner of town.

The city is dividing into sectors and modernising, which makes sense for scale, and student accommodation is not typically car intensive so it makes sense for city centre living

Anteayer

Markcheese wrote: »

A tidal barrier isn't simple, and not without issues, (or advantages either),
All The Quay walls could do with a serious upgrade anyway, but I'm a bit wary of the OPW s, all singing all dancing, multi billion, multi decade project, to stop once in 5 year or 1 in 10 year floods of the city centre, (and I think this only handles tidal flooding not river flooding on the western end of the cities...

Wouldn't it be simple to insist that all buildings in at risk areas need flood barriers on doors, and non return valves on drainage pipes...

The issue is the the OPW plan is too simple too and could potentially be quite ugly if it doesn't work out well.

The quay walls aren't generally in great shape and only a subset of them is very historic. Most of them are in disrepair, but I think they should be restored as sympathetically as possible to the quaysides.

There's a lot could be done by improving river management at both ends and ensuring flood planes are enhanced.

My concern with that project is that it won't future proof the city centre and it only deals with flooding in existing trouble spots while we're are likely to be expanding the city further down the quays into the docklands.

If you're going to prepare for sea level rises we would want to be building tasteful looking dykes right the way down the marina and into the harbour in the areas to be turned into new parts or the city. That can be done by just enhancing what's already there and integration into parkland.

I'm also a bit concerned they the OPW plan doesn't stack up from a hydrological point of view. A lot of the city centre flooding is caused by water penetrating through all sorts of routes other than the walls as the city is basically sitting in a reclaimed marsh or river delta. It's a more more complex, more like a Dutch city in some ways.

How is that being prevented? Its a bit like trying to seal a sponge.

I just think the project is too cheap and isn't looking at how the city would develop over the next 50 to 100 years.

Also I'd be wary about overreacting to the last serious floods which were a bit of a freak incident, in large part due to dam management issues. The tidal flooding isn't anywhere near as big an issue as that.

I'd agree a tidal barrier isn't a solution on its own. It's also over simplistic.

I'd like to see a proper hydrological management office setup for the harbour area

There's also a potential for a significant tidal energy project that could be rolled into a dual propose tidal management system btw.

I just don't think this project is being funded to the extent is needed given how serious a flood risk exists in Cork with rising sea levels nor do I think that it's being approached with a big enough vision. It need to be looked at more like the way NL does things, but Ireland's just not very good at that kind of long term strategic infrastructure planning or willingness to commit serious funds to do that kind of scale of engineering. So it'll be a reactive approach and a bandaid, as usual.