Cork developments

sheff_

[Deleted User] wrote: »

CPO of pitches from a college and local club?

Na, there’s enough space around there to ensure that with some moving of goalposts (literally) the gaa and rugby lose no pitch space. I think the same happened the Barrs when the sarsfield road flyover was done a few years back. You’d have to take 5/6 metres off the sideline of csn’s pitch. Yes, you’re cpo-ing from a school, but inter-schools matches are played at club grounds now so at this stage it’s a training/pe pitch only and a huge one at that. You’re other option is a tram stuck in bishopstown/model farm rd traffic.

TheChizler

sheff_ wrote: »

You’re other option is a tram stuck in bishopstown/model farm rd traffic.

The thing is if you route it through pitches and low population density areas there's little point to that section of the route other than being a way to get from A to B. Would it not be better to take a lane from other traffic and route it on a path people can easily access it from?

namloc1980

TheChizler wrote: »

The thing is if you route it through pitches and low population density areas there's little point to that section of the route other than being a way to get from A to B. Would it not be better to take a lane from other traffic and route it on a path people can easily access it from?

How is it going through low density? Curraheen Road isn't some high density area. Adjacent to CSN and GAA are housing as well it will run through CUH and CIT with thousands of workers, students etc. Hardly low density.

marno21

To be fair an optimum corridor connecting CIT, CUh and UCC would be unreal even if parts of the corridor are low density. Those 3 are massive trip generators

sheff_

sheff_ wrote: »

Na, there’s enough space around there to ensure that with some moving of goalposts (literally) the gaa and rugby lose no pitch space. I think the same happened the Barrs when the sarsfield road flyover was done a few years back. You’d have to take 5/6 metres off the sideline of csn’s pitch. Yes, you’re cpo-ing from a school, but inter-schools matches are played at club grounds now so at this stage it’s a training/pe pitch only and a huge one at that. You’re other option is a tram stuck in bishopstown/model farm rd traffic.

That's their training and underage/junior pitch though

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

That's their training and underage/junior pitch though

Is loss of a portion of the pitch acceptable for a vital public transport corridor? If it comes to it I'd say yes. Others will disagree.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Is loss of a portion of the pitch acceptable for a vital public transport corridor? If it comes to it I'd say yes. Others will disagree.

Spirts clubs are vital amenity, this isn't a useless piece of land. Your actively taking from the community there, to satisfy people passing through

sheff_

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's their training and underage/junior pitch though

Sorry, which club you on about?

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Spirts clubs are vital amenity, this isn't a useless piece of land. Your actively taking from the community there, to satisfy people passing through

You're saying the people in the community won't use the light rail? I can see this will be killed stone dead by the NIMBYs.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

You're saying the people in the community won't use the light rail? I can see this will be killed stone dead by the NIMBYs.

I'm saying that schools and spirts clubs are vutal to communuty and people are being very blasé about saying "just CPO" them.

Oh, one thing. Highfield is the CUH emergency helipad.

sheff_

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, one thing. Highfield is the CUH emergency helipad.

New one is planned for the cuh grounds like they used to have previously

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm saying that schools and spirts clubs are vutal to communuty and people are being very blasé about saying "just CPO" them.

No one said to just CPO the clubs. That's a misrepresentation. If it comes to requiring a small portion of those grounds for the corridor then that shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand as it comes across as NIMBYism. The alternative is to put it down the main Curraheen Road and CPO multiple properties to widen the road sufficiently. Is that more acceptable?

Aontachtoir

Running the tram on the Curraheen Road, Bishopstown Road, or wherever does not mean ending local traffic. The roads that the trams/rapid buses run on would be widened so they are four lanes wide. You get a lane for trams/buses and a lane for private cars in both directions.

As such, no reason to talk about severing traffic arteries or having to reroute the 205/208. In fact, by giving buses their own private lane for the entire route, it could make things a lot easier for cars.

sheff_

Aontachtoir wrote: »

it could make things a lot easier for cars.

I don’t think that’s the idea

Aontachtoir

sheff_ wrote: »

I don’t think that’s the idea

Nope, but it is a pleasant side-effect.

Trams and buses get their own new lanes all the way, and cars keep what they currently have.

sheff_

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Nope, but it is a pleasant side-effect.

Trams and buses get their own new lanes all the way, and cars keep what they currently have.

So everyone just stays in their car. Great

Aontachtoir

sheff_ wrote: »

So everyone just stays in their car. Great

No, they don't. The people who are close enough to use the quick, reliable, efficient public transportation use it, and the people who are not stay in their car. I used to live in Mahon and work at CUH - I would have used this every day if I had the option. Instead I drove, because the public transportation available was too slow and unreliable.

The point of improving public transportation is not to make it so unpleasant and difficult to drive that you stay at home. It is to make public transportation a viable, reliable, and efficient alternative that people will want to use instead of sitting in traffic, looking for a place to park, etc. Besides, people will always need to use their own cars for certain purposes, like doing the weekly shop.

sheff_

Aontachtoir wrote: »

No, they don't. The people who are close enough to use the quick, reliable, efficient public transportation use it, and the people who are not stay in their car. I used to live in Mahon and work at CUH - I would have used this every day if I had the option. Instead I drove, because the public transportation available was too slow and unreliable.

The point of improving public transportation is not to make it so unpleasant and difficult to drive that you stay at home. It is to make public transportation a viable, reliable, and efficient alternative that people will want to use instead of sitting in traffic, looking for a place to park, etc. Besides, people will always need to use their own cars for certain purposes, like doing the weekly shop.

Fair enough. I guess we’ll find out on Tuesday if cmats is planning to make things a lot easier for cars.

Aontachtoir

sheff_ wrote: »

Fair enough. I guess we’ll find out on Tuesday if cmats is planning to make things a lot easier for cars.

Yes, that's a separate thing that needs to happen. Cork is an infrastructural mess and needs rapid investment in the North Ring Road (both to open up the Northside for dense housing and development and to relieve pressure on the tunnel) and M20, in addition to the Dunkettle upgrade and M28 to Ringaskiddy at the very least. Without further investment to improve the roads network, the city will grind to a halt, BusConnects or no BusConnects.

Let's see what CMATS says.

TheChizler

namloc1980 wrote: »

How is it going through low density? Curraheen Road isn't some high density area. Adjacent to CSN and GAA are housing as well it will run through CUH and CIT with thousands of workers, students etc. Hardly low density.

I'm referring to the sports pitch section, rather than Bishopstown or Model Farm Roads.

D'Agger

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Yes, that's a separate thing that needs to happen. Cork is an infrastructural mess and needs rapid investment in the North Ring Road (both to open up the Northside for dense housing and development and to relieve pressure on the tunnel) and M20, in addition to the Dunkettle upgrade and M28 to Ringaskiddy at the very least. Without further investment to improve the roads network, the city will grind to a halt, BusConnects or no BusConnects.

Let's see what CMATS says.

Agreed here, perhaps its stating the obvious but a North ring road is desperately required to alleviate pressure in some of the routes that the light rail would be going through

MrDerp

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Running the tram on the Curraheen Road, Bishopstown Road, or wherever does not mean ending local traffic. The roads that the trams/rapid buses run on would be widened so they are four lanes wide. You get a lane for trams/buses and a lane for private cars in both directions.

As such, no reason to talk about severing traffic arteries or having to reroute the 205/208. In fact, by giving buses their own private lane for the entire route, it could make things a lot easier for cars.

I couldn’t give 2 farts about the local traffic. I care about the tram being unencumbered by traffic lights and selfish drivers blocking the tracks, not to mention idiots crashing into them. Based on street running on the red and green line Luas , this route would take 8-10 mins minimum off city centre to CIT/Ballincollig. that’s a hell of a lot more round trips per tram per day. Offline is a better return on investment.

If it can be run mostly off roads that’s ideal. The reason I propose moving bus routes is for public benefit, let those who have trams use it but this route would partially cover the 208, and make a lot of 205 trips redundant, so it’s a case of protecting those who are 15 mins + from the tram whilst also preventing too much shared infrastructure with buses.

350125GO!

sheff_ wrote: »

Will the taxis be blocking the tram lane or the car lane?

I'd take this picture with a grain of salt. It clearly didn't come from any 'tram design consultancy'. Probably made up by some junior office intern with a brief of "put a luas on Washington street".

For a start the red painted lane is UK bus lane design. In reality the track would sit in a mock cobbled road like the luas does in central Dublin to stop traffic from using the lanes and getting stuck behind it (on the slow moving/ stopping areas).

Secondly both east west lines would more likely run completely on the right hand side of the picture. As traffic enters and exits Washington street from the roads adjacent to the courthouse.

Thirdly putting a road with traffic merging from either side between two opposite running tram lines would go against all sorts of safety standards. If that arrangement was implemented expect to see the whole road covered in traffic lights and yellow hatched paint.

Basically what I'm getting at is this is just saying "look a luas could be in cork" with no more planning or thought. They might as well photoshop the Eiffel Tower in there.

Don't get your hopes up just yet. Your heart will be broken many times over. Expect decades of broken promises before Cork gets light rail.

SleetAndSnow

Update from the girl I know in Clearstream, they are moving in to NSQ1 tomorrow!

marno21

Brief interview with Kevin O'Sullivan in today's Business Post.

* Decision on the Prism from ABP expected in June

* The Custom House Tower is now planned to be 34 storeys

* The Custom House Tower will be twice the height of the Elysian, so around 136m.

fonecrusher1

marno21 wrote: »

Brief interview with Kevin O'Sullivan in today's Business Post.

* Decision on the Prism from ABP expected in June

* The Custom House Tower is now planned to be 34 storeys

* The Custom House Tower will be twice the height of the Elysian, so around 136m.

Nice to get some sort of update. Thanks for posting. 34 storeys is still pretty big! For Cork anyway.

snotboogie

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Nice to get some sort of update. Thanks for posting. 34 storeys is still pretty big! For Cork anyway.

Ya it’s bugger than I expected after the last update they gave in the examiner earlier in the month

namloc1980

Was down at PUC today and took a look over the hoarding into the showgrounds to see if anything happening with Marina Park. Nothing at all going on there. Just a patch of wasteland. Another city hall failure.

Mushy

Echo jumping the gun here

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Plans-for-a-LUAS-system-in-Cork-are-revealed-55252abf-f18a-4239-92b6-e1f66bc8b158-ds