Interclub Competitions

slingerz

kennethrhcp wrote: »

how did the scotch foursomes play out over the previous years foursomes? much changes to how teams set up? i.e. one straight as a die & not long off the tee partnered with a wild boomer? or was it just like any other year & try match 2 lads who play well together & get along?

its a bit of a balancing act i'd imagine. the steady, short, straight as a dye often bring solid short games to the partnership too so will still be good team members in this new format

kopkidda

I played in it and enjoyed the format, leads to interesting questions after the tee shots, overall a great format!!

Seve OB

I'm led to believe the player was of the understanding his handicap was ok as it was his year end handicap. Manager of team should have know better as has been involved for a few years. I'm not sure if the player had been previously involved.
Silly mistake made, but a real shame that it was only picked up so late in the day that Palmerstown couldn't fill the semi final spot.

slingerz

Seve OB wrote: »

I'm led to believe the player was of the understanding his handicap was ok as it was his year end handicap. Manager of team should have know better as has been involved for a few years. I'm not sure if the player had been previously involved.
Silly mistake made, but a real shame that it was only picked up so late in the day that Palmerstown couldn't fill the semi final spot.

that was a question i heard asked a fair bit this year however. i believe it may have changed to year end handicap for some competitions which has led to the confusion

kennethrhcp

slingerz wrote: »

its a bit of a balancing act i'd imagine. the steady, short, straight as a dye often bring solid short games to the partnership too so will still be good team members in this new format

I didn't mean that the shorter straight hitter wasn't a good team member! sorry if it came across like that!!!

I meant in previous years the straighter hitters who hit fairways off the tee were the better players to have. now does this format open up the selection of slightly more erratic lads off the tee

GreeBo

kennethrhcp wrote: »

I didn't mean that the shorter straight hitter wasn't a good team member! sorry if it came across like that!!!

I meant in previous years the straighter hitters who hit fairways off the tee were the better players to have. now does this format open up the selection of slightly more erratic lads off the tee

Typically if you are erratic off the tee you are also erratic elsewhere.

Scotch does open the door for someone who can hit a long ball off the tee when they swing 100%, but it only comes off 10% of the time.

Though you want them hitting second so they can still aim for a fairway finder if required!

kennethrhcp

GreeBo wrote: »

Typically if you are erratic off the tee you are also erratic elsewhere.

Scotch does open the door for someone who can hit a long ball off the tee when they swing 100%, but it only comes off 10% of the time.

Though you want them hitting second so they can still aim for a fairway finder if required!

very true! probably similar thought process so for the managers this year still

Ronney

kennethrhcp wrote: »

very true! probably similar thought process so for the managers this year still

Scoring obviously improved too with the changes. Looking at the scores across the different courses low 80's average was whats needed compared to 4 x 90's that would do a few years ago.

Guessing the matchplay was played at a high standard too with the Scotch format.

Lance Murdock

Seve OB wrote: »

I'm led to believe the player was of the understanding his handicap was ok as it was his year end handicap. Manager of team should have know better as has been involved for a few years. I'm not sure if the player had been previously involved.
Silly mistake made, but a real shame that it was only picked up so late in the day that Palmerstown couldn't fill the semi final spot.

Yep. He played off 11 last year (not 12 as they thought)so the team handicap was 24. Wasn't noticed until Sunday morning.

mafc

Lance Murdock wrote: »

Yep. He played off 11 last year (not 12 as they thought)so the team handicap was 24. Wasn't noticed until Sunday morning.

As a famous Irish footballer once said

“Fail to prepare, prepare to fail”


Unbelievable that ‘this is still happening,
Inexcusable from manager and player, both should have known what his lowest handicap was last year. Obvious that the manager didn’t check out his panel in advance.... Tut tut......

GreeBo

I just find it bizarre.

We pick our teams by starting from a printout of lowest handicaps last year, if you aint on the list then you aint playing.
How people are still relying on players knowing or the manager thinking something is beyond me.

fred funk }{

GreeBo wrote: »

I just find it bizarre.

We pick our teams by starting from a printout of lowest handicaps last year, if you aint on the list then you aint playing.
How people are still relying on players knowing or the manager thinking something is beyond me.

I agree. It's such an oversight that one would think that they knew about it but were rumbled so withdrew.

Russman

It really does seem like an unbelievable oversight. Surely when any team manager is selecting his pairings his first question must be to see if a given pair’s handicaps allow them to play together.

That said I find it hard to believe it was intentional tbh. If for no other reason than it being virtually impossible to actually get away with that nowadays. I feel sorry for the team that finished 5th in qualifying !

Russman

With regard to selection, and without offending anyone, are the “short, straight hitter” and “long but wild bomber” stereotypes not a bit of an urban myth in reality ? I very much doubt that anyone at PP level is consistent enough, either way, to fall into a description like those. Especially when you add “with a good short game” to either one. Imo there’s nobody off 11+ who is mostly on the fairway AND has a good short game, they wouldn’t be off that handicap if they were.

Bottle

GreeBo wrote: »

I just find it bizarre.

We pick our teams by starting from a printout of lowest handicaps last year, if you aint on the list then you aint playing.
How people are still relying on players knowing or the manager thinking something is beyond me.

I was Team Mánager for one of our club teams this year and in December I requested the lowest handicaps during 2017 for a certain range of players handicaps. It actually took 3 runs of the report (from the competitions software not Golfnet) to get the same right and the only reason I knew it was wrong was that my own handicap was incorrect on it. If other people rely on the same report without checking it in detail then they could think it was correct. This also happened during our Barton Cup trials where 2 guys were paired up on the day but one of them said that the manager had the wrong handicap for him.

I would have thought that the Golfnet Cups and Shields Report which should have been provided on the day would have identified the lowest handicap the previous year, I would wonder if this was only checked by officials after they had qualified?

Kingswood Rover

You need to go to golf net for each individual players record of the previous year to make sure that they stayed above the stipulated handicap. Mistakes can happen though, no one died i am sure that manager feels **** about it Weird things happen making a mistake in handicaps for the pierce purcell is very believeable. Rovers winning a league title under Bradly nowl thats what i call unbelievable.

Seve OB

A guy who was due a cut last year but was down as an away player (don't know why - newish to club), cut was never applied. Reports showed he was a 14. He thought he was a 14, cut would have got him to 13.
It was only a last minute review picked up that the cut was never applied so it had to be done retrospectively. Was picked up before the weekend though.
If it were me, I would always know if I had a cut coming. There are lots who don't, and lots of guys who have never even registered on Golfnet where all your records are kept.

slingerz

Russman wrote: »

With regard to selection, and without offending anyone, are the “short, straight hitter” and “long but wild bomber” stereotypes not a bit of an urban myth in reality ? I very much doubt that anyone at PP level is consistent enough, either way, to fall into a description like those. Especially when you add “with a good short game” to either one. Imo there’s nobody off 11+ who is mostly on the fairway AND has a good short game, they wouldn’t be off that handicap if they were.

Surely it would be the older player lackin mg in distance but very straight possibly was lower in previous years that would be the short steady player and it’s often the younger partner has the distance but lacks the consistency. Have seen it plenty myself so don’t consider it an urban myth at all

GreeBo

Seve OB wrote: »

A guy who was due a cut last year but was down as an away player (don't know why - newish to club), cut was never applied. Reports showed he was a 14. He thought he was a 14, cut would have got him to 13.
It was only a last minute review picked up that the cut was never applied so it had to be done retrospectively. Was picked up before the weekend though.
If it were me, I would always know if I had a cut coming. There are lots who don't, and lots of guys who have never even registered on Golfnet where all your records are kept.

Can be difficult to know if you are close to the bubble as it depends on CSS on the day.

That said, if it was due from a qualifying comp last year, then he should have known and applied it to the away scores board., as is his obligation!

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

Can be difficult to know if you are close to the bubble as it depends on CSS on the day.

That said, if it was due from a qualifying comp last year, then he should have known and applied it to the away scores board., as is his obligation!

true, but if i ever have a score that is close, i will always make sure to check it out. obviously lots of people don't bother and just turn up and play off whatever the computer tells them to

Bottle

GreeBo wrote: »

Seve OB wrote: »

A guy who was due a cut last year but was down as an away player (don't know why - newish to club), cut was never applied. Reports showed he was a 14. He thought he was a 14, cut would have got him to 13.
It was only a last minute review picked up that the cut was never applied so it had to be done retrospectively. Was picked up before the weekend though.
If it were me, I would always know if I had a cut coming. There are lots who don't, and lots of guys who have never even registered on Golfnet where all your records are kept.

Can be difficult to know if you are close to the bubble as it depends on CSS on the day.

That said, if it was due from a qualifying comp last year, then he should have known and applied it to the away scores board., as is his obligation!

I was politely informed last year of the following from the CONGU handicap rules, to be honest I was blissfully uninformed before that;

“20.11 If a player returns a Qualifying Score or Scores below his Playing Handicap at his Home Club or away and is unable to:
(a) report an away score(s) to his Home Club; or
(b) ascertain whether or not his Playing Handicap has been reduced as a result of the
score(s)
he must, before playing in another competition at his Home Club or away, for that competition make such reduction to his Playing Handicap as shall be appropriate under the UHS by applying the Competition Scratch Score if known, otherwise the Standard Scratch Score, to calculate his Nett Differential and handicap reduction.”

GreeBo

Bottle wrote: »

I was politely informed last year of the following from the CONGU handicap rules, to be honest I was blissfully uninformed before that;

“20.11 If a player returns a Qualifying Score or Scores below his Playing Handicap at his Home Club or away and is unable to:
(a) report an away score(s) to his Home Club; or
(b) ascertain whether or not his Playing Handicap has been reduced as a result of the
score(s)
he must, before playing in another competition at his Home Club or away, for that competition make such reduction to his Playing Handicap as shall be appropriate under the UHS by applying the Competition Scratch Score if known, otherwise the Standard Scratch Score, to calculate his Nett Differential and handicap reduction.”

Yep, whole section on players obligations, that I'm sure many have never heard of let alone read.

That's why you are asked about and outstanding scores and given the chance to lower your handicap when entering a score.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

Yep, whole section on players obligations, that I'm sure many have never heard of let alone read.

That's why you are asked about and outstanding scores and given the chance to lower your handicap when entering a score.

I can't believe someone would actually do a score that might cut them and not follow up on it. Always err on the side of caution.

Ronney

GreeBo wrote: »

Yep, whole section on players obligations, that I'm sure many have never heard of let alone read.

That's why you are asked about and outstanding scores and given the chance to lower your handicap when entering a score.

If in doubt cut yourself, no penalty for playing off one shot lower, DQ for playing off a higher H/C

Seve OB

for clubs who win the first weekend of qualifying in the likes of PP or JB, do they get anything? ie some kind of a pennant?
I would assume not, they go through to the next round is my understanding and the pennant would only come at the provincial winning stage?

GreeBo

Seve OB wrote: »

for clubs who win the first weekend of qualifying in the likes of PP or JB, do they get anything? ie some kind of a pennant?
I would assume not, they go through to the next round is my understanding and the pennant would only come at the provincial winning stage?

Nothing until the Provincial Pennant afaik.

gary29428

I have six qualifying scores from last year, 3 in my home club and 3 away scores, does this qualify me for cups and shields or do I need 4 scores from my home course.

Thanks.

Russman

Does anyone know what inter club events it’s still ok to use old wedges from pre 2010 in ? Thinking specifically of Junior Cup and Jimmy Bruen.
I’ve read the GUI conditions book and at first glance it seems to be only the likes of the East of Ireland etc that the groove condition applies to......?

Rikand

Russman wrote: »

Does anyone know what inter club events it’s still ok to use old wedges from pre 2010 in ? Thinking specifically of Junior Cup and Jimmy Bruen.
I’ve read the GUI conditions book and at first glance it seems to be only the likes of the East of Ireland etc that the groove condition applies to......?

Yeah you're grand.

I think that groove thing was only coming in to golf for the rest of us in like 2025 or something

Wichita Lineman

I played (and managed) the Pierce Purcell for Moate at the weekend in Mountrath. We qualified 4th on Saturday and came up against a strong Kilkenny GC side on Sunday morning but gave them a real game only losing 3-2 with the decisive match being decided on the 21st hole. I just checked there now and see Rathdowney beat Kilkenny 3-2 in the final yesterday afternoon.

A good experience all round. Mountrath has some of the toughest greens I've ever played on. Good condition but really tricky.