Thumb lock fire regulation

Zapperzy

I've just had the landlord install a new lock in my front door but they've changed it to a thumb lock because of new fire safety regulations. My big worry now is the lock is right beside the letterbox and a pane of glass! Also a few of our neighbours have kids so I suppose nothing to stop a toddler opening the door and wandering outside now. Our estate has been targeted in the past by burglars, particularly those houses which keep keys in the door, burglars broke glass, opened door and helped themselves to laptops, stoves etc.

This isn't an apartment block, it's an estate of individual houses so the public have access to all the houses. I can see the benefit of these types of locks in an apartment block with a main access door that doesn't allow every tom, dick and harry in. Are these locks now fire regulation can anyone tell me?

Gumbo

Zapperzy wrote: »

I've just had the landlord install a new lock in my front door but they've changed it to a thumb lock because of new fire safety regulations. My big worry now is the lock is right beside the letterbox and a pane of glass! Also a few of our neighbours have kids so I suppose nothing to stop a toddler opening the door and wandering outside now. Our estate has been targeted in the past by burglars, particularly those houses which keep keys in the door, burglars broke glass, opened door and helped themselves to laptops, stoves etc.

This isn't an apartment block, it's an estate of individual houses so the public have access to all the houses. I can see the benefit of these types of locks in an apartment block with a main access door that doesn't allow every tom, dick and harry in. Are these locks now fire regulation can anyone tell me?

The front door is classed as the final exit from the property and the final exit from the vertical escape route through the building.

No final exit, including windows should have locks capable of being locked with a key. The thumb lock is required in this instance.

Can you imagine trying to escape a fire and you get to the door in darkness, smoke everywhere and you are carrying your child and you then have to look for a key and try open the front door.

Technical Guidance Document Part B (Fire Safety).

No new house gets passed by me if the door has a key lock on any of my sites.
This is not a new regulation, it has been in place since the 2006 revision of the TGD Part B and possibly before?

kceire

kceire wrote: »

The front door is classed as the final exit from the property and the final exit from the vertical escape route through the building.

No final exit, including windows should have locks capable of being locked with a key. The thumb lock is required in this instance.

Can you imagine trying to escape a fire and you get to the door in darkness, smoke everywhere and you are carrying your child and you then have to look for a key and try open the front door.

Technical Guidance Document Part B (Fire Safety).

No new house gets passed by me if the door has a key lock on any of my sites.
This is not a new regulation, it has been in place since the 2006 revision of the TGD Part B and possibly before?

Nearly every house in the country has a key lock front door and many have a double lock one key and one twist lock. I've been in a number of new build houses of family and friends built in the last year or two* and all have key locked front door so its obvouly not a stongly enforced regulation that has to be adhered to and frankly its terrible from a securty perspective. Regulations gone mad as usual.

*They were self builds though which makes it easier to get around over the top regulation.

Gumbo

Maximiliano Thankful Sociopath wrote: »

Nearly every house in the country has a key lock front door and many have a double lock one key and one twist lock. I've been in a number of new build houses of family and friends built in the last year or two* and all have key locked front door so its obvouly not a stongly enforced regulation that has to be adhered to and frankly its terrible from a securty perspective. Regulations gone mad as usual.

*They were self builds though which makes it easier to get around over the top regulation.

Key lock internal or external?

If it has a key lock internally then its a breach of the Building Regulations. Some professionals are not as clued up on the regs as others.

And then as you say, you get self builders that don't know the Regs.

Cushie Butterfield

And then there’s sometimes a conflict between regulations & house insurance policy requirements

Gumbo

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

And then there’s sometimes a conflict between regulations & house insurance policy requirements

They are still a lock so still complies with all security requirements.

Tzardine

Zapperzy wrote: »

I've just had the landlord install a new lock in my front door but they've changed it to a thumb lock because of new fire safety regulations. My big worry now is the lock is right beside the letterbox and a pane of glass! Also a few of our neighbours have kids so I suppose nothing to stop a toddler opening the door and wandering outside now. Our estate has been targeted in the past by burglars, particularly those houses which keep keys in the door, burglars broke glass, opened door and helped themselves to laptops, stoves etc........

Wait a min, are people actually stealing stoves ?

kceire

kceire wrote: »

Key lock internal or external?

If it has a key lock internally then its a breach of the Building Regulations. Some professionals are not as clued up on the regs as others.

And then as you say, you get self builders that don't know the Regs.

All external doors front and back have keys locks in the houes I'm referring to. One house that's just been moved into less than a year ago I'm in regulary so I know for sure, the others I know the front doors are key locks as they have young kids so when I visit I see them removing the key from the door after I'm let in to stop the kids opening it. I also didn't mean that the builders didn't know, the people having the house built would have spec'd their own locks when ordering their doors.

I knew pretty much every other house I enter (including where I live myself and the home house) has key locks also on all extrenal door and even the thought of leaving the key on the door would not be entertained from a secutity perspective.

As I said its a big security issue and I can't see insurance companies being very happy about it.

Tow

Tzardine wrote: »

Wait a min, are people actually stealing stoves ?

A second hand old Aga is worth a few bob. Even if it cannot be sold as a complete unit working it is worth money to the 'scrap metal business'.

RebelButtMunch

kceire wrote: »

Key lock internal or external?

If it has a key lock internally then its a breach of the Building Regulations. Some professionals are not as clued up on the regs as others.

And then as you say, you get self builders that don't know the Regs.

I'm surprised to read this. I bought a new composite front door recently and it has a key lock, inside and out.
We ALWAYS keep a key on the inside, in case of emergencies.

I'm surprised because the the company was quite reputable and never once offered a thumb lock.

Effects

Tzardine wrote: »

Wait a min, are people actually stealing stoves ?

Yeah, a fried on mine had one stolen from a holiday home. They replaced with an inset stove to lessen the chances of it happening again.

TheBoyConor

Stoves yeah, better believe it!

I've also seen whole fireplaces being ripped out and gone away with.

Zapperzy

Yes a brand new stove was stolen from a neighbours house a year ago.

I get fire regulations but surely common sense has to prevail here, I haven't got the smallest hands but I can get my hand into my letterbox up as far as just past my wrist which is about 3 inches short of my new thumb lock. Somebody with slightly smaller hands or a tool could easily open my front door now.

For security reasons I never leave my key in the door or within easy reach of the letterbox overnight, after a spate of robberies in this estate a year ago the guards called around and told us not to leave a key in the door for this very reason, burglars pull them out and let themselves in. Overnight the front door key is stored in a safe location within easy reach if we've to get out in a hurry and everyone knows where it is. I now feel unsafe in my own house as every house in the estate now has this lock. It's only a matter of time before the undesirables find this out and start picking off houses.

Previously I've only ever seen these locks in apartments, never before in a house.

Effects

Zapperzy wrote: »

Previously I've only ever seen these locks in apartments, never before in a house.

I had to put in a thumb turn in my own house for fire safety regs.

L1011

Modern front doors rarely have letterboxes (thermal envelope reasons, external wall mounted postbox instead) so I doubt the specific issue of needing to meet modern building standards while having a letterbox that close turns up that often.

External box and have the letterbox sealed?

Gumbo

Maximiliano Thankful Sociopath wrote: »

All external doors front and back have keys locks in the houes I'm referring to. One house that's just been moved into less than a year ago I'm in regulary so I know for sure, the others I know the front doors are key locks as they have young kids so when I visit I see them removing the key from the door after I'm let in to stop the kids opening it. I also didn't mean that the builders didn't know, the people having the house built would have spec'd their own locks when ordering their doors.

I knew pretty much every other house I enter (including where I live myself and the home house) has key locks also on all extrenal door and even the thought of leaving the key on the door would not be entertained from a secutity perspective.

As I said its a big security issue and I can't see insurance companies being very happy about it.

No security issue at all. Once the locking mechanism internally (the thumb lock) locks the door properly and the 5 or so dead bolts are working your fine.

From an insurance perspective it makes no difference if it’s thumb lock or key lock. Externally, you still need a key to enter. Also, it’s a requirement for over 10 years now, it’s not something that has just appeared over night.

P.S when I say internally or externally, I don’t mean internal and external doors, I mean the inside of the door and the outside.

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

I'm surprised to read this. I bought a new composite front door recently and it has a key lock, inside and out.
We ALWAYS keep a key on the inside, in case of emergencies.

I'm surprised because the the company was quite reputable and never once offered a thumb lock.

Key lock externally is normal and fine. Key lock internally is a bad choice and most window companies have to be told to change them on my sites. The same goes for windows from bedrooms, they have the key locks by default so I have to get them changed 75% of the time too.

Zapperzy

kceire wrote: »

No security issue at all. Once the locking mechanism internally (the thumb lock) locks the door properly and the 5 or so dead bolts are working

You mean this isn't a security issue? I'm leaning towards blocking up the letterbox or putting a cage on it.

Doop

Assuming this is an existing house, there is no requirement to upgrade it to current building regulations as is the case with all TGD's, The property only needs to comply with the regulations that were in place at the time of construction (as long as it is being used for its original use ie changing from commercial to residential would invoke full compliance with current regulations).

Long story short your landlord was not 'required' to install this type of lock (they are however preferable with regard to escape hence the regulation).

Gumbo

Zapperzy wrote: »

You mean this isn't a security issue? I'm leaning towards blocking up the letterbox or putting a cage on it.

If someone wants to get into your property then a thumb lock or key lock won’t stop them. It’s the same mechanism inside the barrel etc

Doop wrote: »

Assuming this is an existing house, there is no requirement to upgrade it to current building regulations as is the case with all TGD's, The property only needs to comply with the regulations that were in place at the time of construction (as long as it is being used for its original use ie changing from commercial to residential would invoke full compliance with current regulations).

Long story short your landlord was not 'required' to install this type of lock (they are however preferable with regard to escape hence the regulation).

There are no requirements to upgrade the house to current regulations, BUT any new element introduced to that house should comply with current regulations.

For example :

New front door should comply with current regulations with regards to final exit (thumb lock), glazing (toughened where required), heat loss (part L).

New windows : opening section for means of escape. No key locks on the handles, so thumb locks again. Heights of opening sections.

If your landlord simply changed the lock alone then there may have been no requirement to put a thumb lock in but in my opinion (as someone that works in this area) he done due diligence y putting them in.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

P.S when I say internally or externally, I don’t mean internal and external doors, I mean the inside of the door and the outside.

Ok sorry, I miss-understood. To clarify you need a key to lock and lock the door internally in pretty much every single house I have been in (there are some exceptions) including a number of houses built in the last 1 to 3 years.

Even a few houses I know which have a twist lock have have added an additional lock which has to be locked by a key which is always removed from the inside of the door.

kceire wrote: »

Also, it’s a requirement for over 10 years now, it’s not something that has just appeared over night.

Its either being widely ignored or people are changing their locks after any sign offs have been done

Same for new doors, a family member recently got a new front door and has a key lock both inside and out.

John_Rambo

I changed my locks to twist locks (no key on the inside) and added an old fashioned chub lock higher on the door on every house I owned since 2003. Did it for the neighbours where I live now too.

Much safer in the event of a fire. Also saves the bunch of house keys (with car keys etc... ) hanging out of the inside front door keyhole.

A very practical, cheap and safe modification that even I could do with my limited DIY skills.

Edit... I got a professional to do the chub lock.

Eric Cartman

https://www.locksonline.com/Dome-cover-for-use-with-cylinder-thumbturn-2985.html

you can get a security cover.