Manager of the year

lawred2

rekop dog wrote:

Allardyce

surely

givyjoe

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Football's a funny old game. Last season Liverpool finished fourth and United were sixth; currently with a month to go in the season United are second and sit a point ahead of Liverpool with a game in hand and could conceivably finish the season with silverware, while Liverpool could wind up empty-handed. And yet the consistent narrative has been that Jose has had a poor season (he doesn't get a mention in the poll) while Klopp is considered manager of the season material.

Personally I think an award like this should go to a manager that exceeds expectations. The ones who fit that bill at present I would say are Guardiola (who fancied them to win it so comfortably?), Dyche (amazing what he's done with the squad) and Rafa (has made the most of very limited resources). If they survive, I think Eddie Howe, David Wagner and Roy Hodgson will all warrant a mention.

I think if Klopp wins Liverpool the Champions League he would merit the award because that would be the biggest example of exceeding expectations of any of them. A lot can change between now and the next four weeks but as it stands at the moment I think I'd lean towards Guardiola deserving it.

Remind me how much has mourinho spent?!

Will I Am Not

Mr.H wrote: »

I was joking. You're not........

I’m not joking about what?

Mr.Nice Guy

niallo27 wrote: »

Why not give Klopp the CL if you are giving Jose the FA cup.

Why not look up the word "Hypothetically" which is what I used.

Mr. H wrote:

To be fair your comparisons are assuming that Jose wins the fa cup and klopp doesn't win the champions league.

The question is, has klopp or Jose improved their respective sides enough This season to be even mentioned.

I don't think klopp should get it but he is definitely a better shout than Jose.

There was no assumption made; it was a hypothetical question. If Mourinho lands the FA Cup and 2nd place and Klopp fails to land the Champions League and finishes in 3rd place, is it not fair to conclude Jose has had the better season?

Mr.H

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

There was no assumption made; it was a hypothetical question. If Mourinho lands the FA Cup and 2nd place and Klopp fails to land the Champions League and finishes in 3rd place, is it not fair to conclude Jose has had the better season?

OK so what about if klopp wins the cl and gets 3rd v Jose getting the fa cup and 2nd?

Hell what if both lose out in cups?

Given expectations at the start of the season. Who do you actually think had a better season?

Jose talked up a title challenge. Ye were the second best team so far but let's face it City had no competition. Ye also talked up the champions league and lost without even putting up a fight.

Liverpool were said to be safe to target finishing in the top 4 as Europe was gonna make them struggle to replicate last season. Yet they are comfortable in the top 4 and face the so called weakest side left in the champions league for a spot in the final. I think it will be a tough game but I am talking perspective.

Which do you really think "over achieved" or even exceeded expectations?

But again neither right now deserves the moty

doc_17

Klopp lost one of his best players halfway through the season and had to manage that. But if it’s based on domestic only then it’s most likely going to be Pep.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.H wrote: »

OK so what about if klopp wins the cl and gets 3rd v Jose getting the fa cup and 2nd?

Hell what if both lose out in cups?

Given expectations at the start of the season. Who do you actually think had a better season?

Jose talked up a title challenge. Ye were the second best team so far but let's face it City had no competition. Ye also talked up the champions league and lost without even putting up a fight.

Liverpool were said to be safe to target finishing in the top 4 as Europe was gonna make them struggle to replicate last season. Yet they are comfortable in the top 4 and face the so called weakest side left in the champions league for a spot in the final. I think it will be a tough game but I am talking perspective.

Which do you really think "over achieved" or even exceeded expectations?

But again neither right now deserves the moty

If Klopp wins the CL then he has undoubtedly had a better season than Jose. If both are trophyless then you'd surely have to measure it on league places, although both would presumably consider the seasons a disappointment.

I already said even if United end up 2nd and with the FA Cup I wouldn't consider that worthy of Jose being in contention for MOTY. I just find it amusing that many consider Klopp MOTY material and Jose to have had a poor season, when it's not beyond the realm of possibility that ultimately Jose could finish higher than Klopp and with a trophy more than him.

Liam McPoyle

There are a few lads here in need of this.

Islander13

Guardiola streets ahead imo

Mr.H

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I already said even if United end up 2nd and with the FA Cup I wouldn't consider that worthy of Jose being in contention for MOTY. I just find it amusing that many consider Klopp MOTY material and Jose to have had a poor season, when it's not beyond the realm of possibility that ultimately Jose could finish higher than Klopp and with a trophy more than him.

Surely it goes more toward expectations than positions?

Rafa dyche and Wagner all had better seasons than klopp and Jose in terms of league achievements this season. Yet the latter two are miles ahead position wise.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.H wrote: »

Surely it goes more toward expectations than positions?

Rafa dyche and Wagner all had better seasons than klopp and Jose in terms of league achievements this season. Yet the latter two are miles ahead position wise.

Yes I agree it should go to a manager that is considered to have exceeded expectations. It's still quite early to make a call on this really since a lot can happen between now and next month. For example a few people mentioned Pochettino earlier. If he can win Spurs their first FA Cup in 27 years and secure Champions League football into the bargain that would be a terrific return considering they've been playing their home games away from their traditional venue. You'd have to throw his name seriously into the mix then.

Iused2likebusts

If its not pep it has to be dyche. Benitez and Wagner have both done great jobs but what dyche has done is remarkable. He has the 3rd lowest wage bill in the league and has found it extremely difficult to attract PL proven players to the club. Newcastle for example would have a bigger wage bill than Burnley. Last summer he lost 2 key players Keane and gray. Keane wasn't replaced and grays replacement was a championship striker. If you go through the team that generally starts
Pope signed from lge 1 Charlton
Lowton signed from villa championship
Mee city reserves
Tarkowski signed from Brentford sub most of last year
Ward signed from championship Brighton
Brady signed from norwich
Cork signed from Swansea
Hendrick signed from derby
Gudmundson signed from Charlton
Barnes a journeyman striker played non league
Wood signed from leeds

What dyche does is get absolutely everything out of his players every time they go on the pitch. He also has them organised properly. The great thing about this season is he now has them winning away from home regularly. His teams don't play with fear against city recently he went two up front and pressed them really high up and got a deserved draw. Lots would have had them down for relegation at the start of the season so for them to be on the verge of Europe is an unbelievable feet. Its ultimately a squad of players that should struggle all things being equal.

pjohnson

Has to be Dyche imo. What he has achieved with whats at his disposal is ridiculous.

Mourinho.

Deserves a longer contract :cool:

limnam

Outside of the prem, Neil Warnock has dome some job at Cardiff city. What a turn around and not a pot to piss in. As much as a I hate the fcker.

Rekop dog

Pep by an absolute country mile. People are letting their European loss mask what's been a phenomenal league campaign. They're on course to win the league by most points/most wins/most goals in premier league history.

Had a chuckle at Rafa's inclusion, could only have been a Liverpool fan.

Sheep breeder

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

If its not pep it has to be dyche. Benitez and Wagner have both done great jobs but what dyche has done is remarkable. He has the 3rd lowest wage bill in the league and has found it extremely difficult to attract PL proven players to the club. Newcastle for example would have a bigger wage bill than Burnley. Last summer he lost 2 key players Keane and gray. Keane wasn't replaced and grays replacement was a championship striker. If you go through the team that generally starts
Pope signed from lge 1 Charlton
Lowton signed from villa championship
Mee city reserves
Tarkowski signed from Brentford sub most of last year
Ward signed from championship Brighton
Brady signed from norwich
Cork signed from Swansea
Hendrick signed from derby
Gudmundson signed from Charlton
Barnes a journeyman striker played non league
Wood signed from leeds

What dyche does is get absolutely everything out of his players every time they go on the pitch. He also has them organised properly. The great thing about this season is he now has them winning away from home regularly. His teams don't play with fear against city recently he went two up front and pressed them really high up and got a deserved draw. Lots would have had them down for relegation at the start of the season so for them to be on the verge of Europe is an unbelievable feet. Its ultimately a squad of players that should struggle all things being equal.

If only could get arsene to do the same at arsenal with the squad he has would make an old arsenal supporter happy.

murpho999

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If Klopp wins the CL then he has undoubtedly had a better season than Jose. If both are trophyless then you'd surely have to measure it on league places, although both would presumably consider the seasons a disappointment.

I already said even if United end up 2nd and with the FA Cup I wouldn't consider that worthy of Jose being in contention for MOTY. I just find it amusing that many consider Klopp MOTY material and Jose to have had a poor season, when it's not beyond the realm of possibility that ultimately Jose could finish higher than Klopp and with a trophy more than him.

For me it has to go to Pep a he has managed the best team in the Premier League this season and his team have won the league by a ridiculous margin.

You can argue about the money City has spent but Pep was under pressure this season and has delivered and has to get manager of the year imho.

Your points over Utd and Liverpool only confirm your Utd bias I'm afraid.

Mourinho has spent huge money and went to Utd as a big name manager and a big reputation and his remit was to get Utd winning the league.

They'll most likely finish second this season but have at no stage challenged for the league apart from August, when many fans got a bit excited but City soon took control and ran away with it.

Liverpool on the other hand have come from a much lower place compared to Utd in the last few seasons. Look likely to obtain their second top 4 league finish in a row and have reached the CL semi-finals with a reasonable chance of reaching the final.
This was not expected of Liverpool but was expected of Utd.

Look at the prediction thread here where 29% predicted Utd would win the league compared to only 6% predicted that Liverpool would.

The point is that Jose was expected to produce a lot more than he has and he's under a lot more presure and scrutiny than what Klopp is.

No Liverpool fan is complaining about how Liverpool are playing and are very optimistic about the team's development and what is being built but I don't think many Utd fans feel that way.

Mr.Nice Guy

murpho999 wrote: »

Your points over Utd and Liverpool only confirm your Utd bias I'm afraid.

Mouriho has spent huge money and went to Utd with a big name manager with a big reputation and his remit was to get Utd winning the league.

They'll most likely finish second this season but have at no stage challenged fro the league apart from August, when many fans got a bit excited but City soon took control and ran away with it.

Liverpool on the other hand have come from a much lower place compared to the last few seasons. Look likely to obtain their second top 4 league finish in a row and have reached the CL semi-finals with a reasonable chance of reaching the final.
This was not expected of Liverpool but was expected of Utd.

Look at the prediction thread here where 29% predicted Utd would win the league compared to only 6% predicted that Liverpool would.

The point is that Jose was expected to produce a lot more than he has and he's under a lot more presure and scrutiny than what Klopp is.

No Liverpool fan is complaining about how Liverpool are playing and are very optimistic about the team's development and what is being built but I don't many Utd fans feel that way.

Where is the United bias? Have a look at the poll you link and see who I predicted to win the title.

"Mouriho has spent huge money and went to Utd with a big name manager with a big reputation and his remit was to get Utd winning the league."

I highly doubt his minimum requirement from the club was to win the title this season. United were sixth last season and the idea that this squad would win the title was a stretch which I - as biased as I allegedly am - could see would not happen this season.

"Liverpool on the other hand have come from a much lower place compared to the last few seasons. Look likely to obtain their second top 4 league finish in a row and have reached the CL semi-finals with a reasonable chance of reaching the final.
This was not expected of Liverpool but was expected of Utd.

Liverpool were HIGHER than United last season. I love how you can spin the prospect of potentially finishing lower than United as somehow a win. Now which one of us is biased? Liverpool were expected to get Champions League football as were United. Neither side were expected to reach the last 4 of the Champions League.

I'll pose the point again. Hypothetically, which of the following would constitute better progress were it to happen:

From 6th + Europa League/League Cup => 2nd + FA Cup

or

From 4th and 0 trophies => 3rd and 0 trophies

murpho999

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Where is the United bias? Have a look at the poll you link and see who I predicted to win the title.

You are deflecting from the point. I referred to the poll in general terms not individual votes.
It shows how many expected more from Utd.
Your bias is shown in the previous post by arguing that Utd are having a better season than Liverpool and assuming Utd will win the cup and Liverpool won't win the CL.

I highly doubt his minimum requirement from the club was to win the title this season. United were sixth last season and the idea that this squad would win the title was a stretch which I - as biased as I allegedly am - could see would not happen this season.

With the money Utd have spent I'd say the requirement was to at least be competing for the league and also a better performance in the CL and that has not happened.

Liverpool were HIGHER than United last season. I love how you can spin the prospect of potentially finishing lower than United as somehow a win. Now which one of us is biased? Liverpool were expected to get Champions League football as were United. Neither side were expected to reach the last 4 of the Champions League.

I'll pose the point again. Hypothetically, which of the following would constitute better progress were it to happen:

From 6th + Europa League/League Cup => 2nd + FA Cup

or

From 4th and 0 trophies => 3rd and 0 trophies

You're going on about last season. Utd are a massive club. Finishing 6th for them should be a blip and top 4 a minmum.
This would not be seen as a great achievement by them.

Look at the BBC pundits predictions here. 13 of them predicted Utd to win the league compared to zero predicting Liverpool.

Liverpool have been less successful as you well know. This season's top 4 and good CL run is a great achievement.

It's all about expectation and status.

Arsenal will probably finish ahead of Burnley and could win the EL. Would you say their season is much better than Burnley's. Which set of fans are more optimistic about their future?

The Floyd p

Burnley play cancer football and Sean Dyche has a 4 stone bag of spuds on his shoulder. It clearly should be Pep, but looking back on the past recipients it'll go to Dyche. It's a joke.

SM01

Simply put, Klopp and Mou really shouldn't be part of this conversation. Pep and Dyche are the forerunners.

I don't agree with the comment about Benitez being included because some Liverpool fan made the poll. That's silly. He certainly deserves an honourable mention for what he's done with this season along with Hughton and Wagner.

bucketybuck

murpho999 wrote: »

You can argue about the money City has spent but Pep was under pressure this season and has delivered and has to get manager of the year imho.

Your points over Utd and Liverpool only confirm your Utd bias I'm afraid.

Mourinho has spent huge money and went to Utd as a big name manager and a big reputation and his remit was to get Utd winning the league.

And damn sure if United won the league this season or next the words "over achieved" will not be uttered. Would you not agree that "Guardiola has spent huge money and went to City as a big name manager and a big reputation and his remit was to get City winning the league."?

Its not salty to point that out, its simple fact. If Mourinho wins the league, then considering the money spent and the expectations of the club then it will be considered an expected success and thats it. If Conte was to win the league again with Chelsea it would be considered as a title challenger getting the job done, and when he won it last year I never heard anybody talking about over achievement.

Pep has repeatedly broken spending records at a club that has been perennial challengers for 7/8 years now and yet him winning the league is "over achieving". I'd have no problem with him winning manager of the year, he won the league and to the victors the prize etc etc, but **** that "over achieving" ****.

pjohnson

The Floyd p wrote: »

Burnley play cancer football and Sean Dyche has a 4 stone bag of spuds on his shoulder. It clearly should be Pep, but looking back on the past recipients it'll go to Dyche. It's a joke.

"Cancer football" thats a new one

Mr.Nice Guy

murpho999 wrote: »

You are deflecting from the point. I referred to the poll in general terms not individual votes.
It shows how many expected more from Utd.
Your bias is shown in the previous post by arguing that Utd are having a better season than Liverpool and assuming Utd will win the cup and Liverpool won't win the CL.

If you had looked closely at the poll you linked to you would have discovered that I predicted Man City to win the title, which rather hurts your charge that I am biased towards United.

And you are all over the place in your final sentence there because I did not assume anything, rather I posited a hypothetical scenario in which United would finish the season higher and with more silverware than Liverpool and asked people to explain to me how this would constitute Klopp having the better season. I'm none the wiser.

murpho999 wrote:

With the money Utd have spent I'd say the requirement was to at least be competing for the league and also a better performance in the CL and that has not happened.

Indeed, but I don't suppose he was expected to go from 6th to win it outright by the club in the space of one season.

murpho999 wrote:

You're going on about last season. Utd are a massive club. Finishing 6th for them should be a blip and top 4 a minmum.
This would not be seen as a great achievement by them.

Liverpooll have been less succesful as you well know. This season's top 4 and good CL run is a great achievement.

It's all about expectation and status.

Arsenal will probably finish ahead of Burnley and could win the EL. Would you say their season is much better than Burnley's. Which set of fans are more optimistic about their future?

Well yes you have to take into account the previous season when measuring success. Do you not consider going from 6th to 2nd to be progress? And being in with a shout of the second biggest domestic prize? And are Liverpool not a massive club? Why is top 4 considered a great achievement for them rather than a minimum expectation?

I'll pose my hypothesis one more time as I'm curious to an unbiased answer, without talk of "net spend" and aestethically pleasing football which we all know is just part and parcel of the usual willy-waving that goes on in this forum. Hypothetically, which of the following would constitute better progress were it to happen:

From 6th + Europa League/League Cup => 2nd + FA Cup

or

From 4th and 0 trophies => 3rd and 0 trophies

A Liverpool fan able to look at it objectively would surely agree that if the above scenario were to play out, Jose would have had the better season. (To retierate, that is not to say Jose would be MOTS material on the above because as I said previously I would consider the above to be a satisfactory return rather than spectacular)

murpho999

bucketybuck wrote: »

And damn sure if United won the league this season or next the words "over achieved" will not be uttered. Would you not agree that "Guardiola has spent huge money and went to City as a big name manager and a big reputation and his remit was to get City winning the league."?

Its not salty to point that out, its simple fact. If Mourinho wins the league, then considering the money spent and the expectations of the club then it will be considered an expected success and thats it. If Conte was to win the league again with Chelsea it would be considered as a title challenger getting the job done, and when he won it last year I never heard anybody talking about over achievement.

Pep has repeatedly broken spending records at a club that has been perennial challengers for 7/8 years now and yet him winning the league is "over achieving". I'd have no problem with him winning manager of the year, he won the league and to the victors the prize etc etc, but **** that "over achieving" ****.

I never mentiond 'overachievedl'.

Yes I would agree that Pep has spent massive money and went to City as a big name manager, exact same as Jose but the big difference is that he has delivered the league.

If Jose had won the league then he'd be manager of the year. Simple.

murpho999

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If you had looked closely at the poll you linked to you would have discovered that I predicted Man City to win the title, which rather hurts your charge that I am biased towards United.

My point about bias relates to your bias of Utd over Liverpool in your earlier post in this thread and not what you predicted in the poll in August.
My point with the poll was not about bias but about general expectation of posters here about Utd.

And you are all over the place in your final sentence there because I did not assume anything, rather I posited a hypothetical scenario in which United would finish the season higher and with more silverware than Liverpool and asked people to explain to me how this would constitute Klopp having the better season. I'm none the wiser.

I think an FA Cup win for Utd would not represent great success for Utd and would not change the general negativity that surrounds the club which does not exist at Liverpool no matter what happens this season.

Indeed, but I don't suppose he was expected to go from 6th to win it outright by the club in the space of one season.

I would say Chelsea's achievement the season before would have made Utd hierarchy think otherwise. It's not an insurmountable gap.

Well yes you have to take into account the previous season when measuring success. Do you not consider going from 6th to 2nd to be progress? And being in with a shout of the second biggest domestic prize? And are Liverpool not a massive club? Why is top 4 considered a great achievement for them rather than a minimum expectation?

Yes it is progress but has been dull, no challenge, and a brand of football played that is foreign to Utd. I have not met any Utd fans that are really happy with how they have played this season and they are all disappointed with going out of the CL so early. You must be too.

I'll pose my hypothesis one more time as I'm curious to an unbiased answer, without talk of "net spend" and aestethically pleasing football which we all know is just part and parcel of the usual willy-waving that goes on in this forum. Hypothetically, which of the following would constitute better progress were it to happen:

From 6th + Europa League/League Cup => 2nd + FA Cup

or

From 4th and 0 trophies => 3rd and 0 trophies

A Liverpool fan able to look at it objectively would surely agree that if the above scenario were to play out, Jose would have had the better season. (To retierate, that is not to say Jose would be MOTS material on the above because as I said previously I would consider the above to be a satisfactory return rather than spectacular)

You're obsessed with this but whatever happens which set of fans are happier? Which manager has a happier demanour? Which manager is more secure in their job?
Which manager has a better relationship with his players?

You are looking for a judgement on a definitive result this season whilst others are looking overal progress and prospects for the future.

I would argue that Liverpool reaching the final of CL would be a greater achievement than Utd winning the FA Cup.

Benimar

I’d go Pep, Rafa and Dyche in that order.

In relation to the other nonsense, it could be argued Klopp deserves a mention (but not to win it) for getting Liverpool to the CL SF, as does Wagner if he keeps Huddersfield up. Mourinho should be nowhere near the conversation.

Will I Am Not

It’s all about happiness. They should do away with trophies and stuff.

murpho999

Will I Am Not wrote: »

It’s all about happiness. They should do away with trophies and stuff.

Yes, I'm sure you'll be happy with an FA Cup as your nearest rivals put the Premier League trophy in their cabinet.

Ignore that and get more than Liverpool is the real target.

If Utd fans think Mourinho is doing better than Klopp in the long run then they're not looking at things objectively.

Mr.Nice Guy

murpho999 wrote: »

My point about bias relates to your bias of Utd over Liverpool in your earlier post in this thread and not what you predicted in the poll in August.
My point with the poll was not about bias but about general expectation of posters here about Utd.

You've shown no evidence of me being biased and as I already pointed out to you, the poll you linked to, regardless of what it says about general expectations, shows MY expectation of a win by United's rivals - thus rubbishing your silly notion I am biased.

murpho999 wrote:

I think an FA Cup win for Utd would not represent great success for Utd and would not change the general negativity that surrounds the club which does not exist at Liverpool no matter what happens this season.

So 0 trophies would be preferable to an FA Cup on the basis that it would not represent "great success" for United. The mental gymnastics here! Plenty of scope for negativity for Liverpool. If they perform poorly against Roma and go out there will be plenty of criticism.

murpho999 wrote:

I would say Chelsea's achievement the season before would have made Utd hierarchy think otherwise. It's not an insurmountable gap.

United weren't able to acquire all of the transfer targets they desired so I doubt it.

murho999 wrote:

Yes it is progress but has been dull, no challenge, and a brand of football played that is foreign to Utd. I have not met any Utd fans that are really happy with how they have played this season and they are all disappointed with going out of the CL so early. You must be too.

I don't think anyone is suggesting this United team are where they need to be or are the finished article, but it's progress. Consider the fact that for all of the problems there are still 18 teams in worse positions presently than United, including Liverpool. Should a massive club like Liverpool not be second right now given all the positivity about them and the supposed negativity about United?

murpho999 wrote:

You're obsessed with this but whatever happens which set of fans are happier? Which manager has a happier demanour? Which manager is more secure in their job?
Which manager has a better relationship with his players?

You are looking for a judgement on a definitive result this season whilst others are looking overal progress and prospects for the future.

I would argue that Liverpool reaching the final of CL would be a greater achievement than Utd winning the FA Cup.

LOL, that last sentence is a real beaut. I guess you're pocketing that one as an insurance policy in case United do win the FA Cup, and Liverpool do lose the CL final.

At the end of the day, you waved the white flag with regards my hypothetical scenario. Talking about fan happiness and demeanour is the definition of stretching. I tried to keep it to cold hard facts.

If you have to resort to mental gymnastics like the above and claiming cup final defeats would be more praiseworthy than cup final wins then that shows which one of us is truly biased.

The idea that a manager could finish below a rival AND finish trophyless compared to a manager winning the second biggest domestic prize and STILL be deemed to have had a better season is the definition of BLINKERED.

DJIMI TRARORE

1 dyche
2 Rafa
3 woy,if Palace stay up

Mr.H

Will I Am Not wrote:

It’s all about happiness. They should do away with trophies and stuff.

Typical to make this all about united and Jose when neither deserve a mention. The turn around and pretend you are being funny "channeling your inner Jose". Your lemony posts are very transparent.

So even to consider Ilse for a second d as manager of the year!!!, you have been happy with the way united have played this season? You feel Jose has surpassed expectations or even checked his minimum targets this season?

Most would argue that united will achieve their absolute minimum target only IF they win the fa cup. otherwise the only thing is got was a top 4 this season after spending how much?

Will I Am Not

Mr.H wrote: »

Typical to make this all about united and Jose when neither deserve a mention. The turn around and pretend you are being funny "channeling your inner Jose". Your lemony posts are very transparent.

So even to consider Ilse for a second d as manager of the year!!!, you have been happy with the way united have played this season? You feel Jose has surpassed expectations or even checked his minimum targets this season?

Most would argue that united will achieve their absolute minimum target only IF they win the fa cup. otherwise the only thing is got was a top 4 this season after spending how much?

Where did I mention Jose in that post?

It’s quite hilarious that you still think I’m seriously suggesting Jose to be manager of the year because he had the biggest improvement in the top 6 league table and that Alexis is the best player in the league and that Jose destroyed Arsenal by signing him and that City had an easier run of fixtures in a competition where everyone has the same fixtures. F*cking hell...

murpho999

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

You've shown no evidence of me being biased and as I already pointed out to you, the poll you linked to, regardless of what it says about general expectations, shows MY expectation of a win by United's rivals - thus rubbishing your silly notion I am biased.

Why are you going on about the poll? I said you were biased against Liverpool as shown in your post earlier in this thread.
What has picking City in August in a completely separate thread on a different subject got to do with it?

So 0 trophies would be preferable to an FA Cup on the basis that it would not represent "great success" for United. The mental gymnastics here! Plenty of scope for negativity for Liverpool. If they perform poorly against Roma and go out there will be plenty of criticism.

Of course I want Liverpool to win trophies and they could still win the European cup. Unlike Man Utd they are still in it.
Going out to Roma would be a big disappointment but being realitstic, reaching the semi final is a great achievement given Liverpool's recent Champion's league history. Can you not see that?

United weren't able to acquire all of the transfer targets they desired so I doubt it.
I don't think anyone is suggesting this United team are where they need to be or are the finished article, but it's progress. Consider the fact that for all of the problems there are still 18 teams in worse positions presently than United, including Liverpool. Should a massive club like Liverpool not be second right now given all the positivity about them and the supposed negativity about United?

I think Liverpool should be 2nd but they screwed up in a few games earlier in the season. However, given Utd's form over the last few games I would not rule out Liverpool sneaking it but it's in Utd's hands.

LOL, that last sentence is a real beaut. I guess you're pocketing that one as an insurance policy in case United do win the FA Cup, and Liverpool do lose the CL final.

At the end of the day, you waved the white flag with regards my hypothetical scenario. Talking about fan happiness and demeanour is the definition of stretching. I tried to keep it to cold hard facts.

Really not worried what Utd do. Genuinely only bothers me how they perform in the League and the Champion's League.

As for your facts, you haven't stated any as you're arguing about your own hypthetical scenario.

If you have to resort to mental gymnastics like the above and claiming cup final defeats would be more praiseworthy than cup final wins then that shows which one of us is truly biased.

The idea that a manager could finish below a rival AND finish trophyless compared to a manager winning the second biggest domestic prize and STILL be deemed to have had a better season is the definition of BLINKERED.

I don't think it's blinkered to say that losing a Champion's League final against Real Madrid or Bayern Munich is a greater achievement than winning a FA Cup final against Chelsea or Southampton.

Especially when you consider that Liverpool have only qualified once since before since 2009.

Arsenal won the FA Cup last season. Were their fans happy? Was Liverpool's season not more successful.

Who had reached their targets?
Liverpool's was to achieve Top 4 again firstly and anything else was a bonus.

I think Utd's was more than an FA Cup.

Mr.H

Will I Am Not wrote:

Where did I mention Jose in that post? You never answered me earlier, what am I not joking about?

What are you even on about? You are clearly mentioning that winning trophies is more important than how football is played. The fact is you are talking rubbish. When traps got us to a tournament did everyone just ignore his horrible football or did they accept it because it brought a level of success? You are biased buddy and blinded by the rubbish Jose spunks all over the place. His "band of football" and presence is a virus to the premier league. He spends a fortune and cries hat united haven't backed him. He throws his own played under the bus. He pretends that he has the moral high ground with not "playing the clown" on the side line but has made a career from it. No other manager has been as disgusting with their antics towards officials and opposition coaching staff than Jose has. The creep has tried to turn fans against certain officials, physios and opposition managers in an aim to hide his own failures. One word sums him up and it certainly is not special.

But yea you keep trying to bring that rubbish into a thread that he deserves no part of because he is nowhere near it!

Your question was a serious one and warrants any kind of reply? Maybe you should actually try adding to a thread instead of derailing one that has nothing to do with your pathetic manager. Ask a question that warrants a reply.

Will I Am Not

Mr.H wrote: »

What are you even on about? You are clearly mentioning that winning trophies is more important than how football is played. The fact is you are talking rubbish. When traps got us to a tournament did everyone just ignore his horrible football or did they accept it because it brought a level of success? You are biased buddy and blinded by the rubbish Jose spunks all over the place. His "band of football" and presence is a virus to the premier league. He spends a fortune and cries hat united haven't backed him. He throws his own played under the bus. He pretends that he has the moral high ground with not "playing the clown" on the side line but has made a career from it. No other manager has been as disgusting with their antics towards officials and opposition coaching staff than Jose has. The creep has tried to turn fans against certain officials, physios and opposition managers in an aim to hide his own failures. One word sums him up and it certainly is not special.

But yea you keep trying to bring that rubbish into a thread that he deserves no part of because he is nowhere near it!

Your question was a serious one and warrants any kind of reply? Maybe you should actually try adding to a thread instead of derailing one that has nothing to do with your pathetic manager. Ask a question that warrants a reply.

Let it all out now...

See my edit. Hilarious stuff from you. Goodnight.

Mr.H

Ah silly to argue. Sorry I got caught up in it. In the canaries this week so too many pints and too much time on my hands.

Soz will

Skylinehead

Mr.H wrote: »

Yea easy to post something stupid and pretend you were joking all along....

Come on, it was blatant all along.

Only for City got lucky with the league fixtures this season

That from his very first post - obviously a joke, you didn't get it, live and let live. Oh, and stop the borderline personal abuse please.

Mr.Nice Guy

murpho999 wrote: »

Why are you going on about the poll? I said you were biased against Liverpool as shown in your post earlier in this thread.
What has picking City in August in a completely separate thread on a different subject got to do with it?

You accused me of bias, implying that I am incapable of judging United objectively, yet you linked to a poll that shows me predicting City to have a better season! Some bias! Amusingly, your charge of bias is based on you mistaking my hypothesis for an assumption.

murphi999 wrote:

Of course I want Liverpool to win trophies and they could still win the European cup. Unlike Man Utd they are still in it.
Going out to Roma would be a big disappointment but being realitstic, reaching the semi final is a great achievement given Liverpool's recent Champion's league history. Can you not see that?

And United could win the FA Cup. Unlike Liverpool they are still in it. No, I don't think 5 times winners of the competition should consider reaching the semi-final stage a great achievement. I think they have done very well thus far to get where they are but failure is failure and winning is winning.

murpho999 wrote:

I think Liverpool should be 2nd but they screwed up in a few games earlier in the season. However, given Utd's form over the last few games I would not rule out Liverpool sneaking it but it's in Utd's hands.

Indeed, and after the weekend I wouldn't rule out Liverpool sneaking it either. But if we can both agree the sides are close for the spot does that not indicate how absurd it is that one of the coaches is deemed MOTS material and the other is said to be poor? That's been my point all along. Challenging that lazy narrative. One Liverpool fan on this thread mocked Mourinho by sarcastically asking him to get a contract renewal - this is the coach lest we forget currently ahead of Liverpool with a game in hand! Couldn't make it up!

murpho999 wrote:

Really not worried what Utd do. Genuinely only bothers me how they perform in the League and the Champion's League.

As for your facts, you haven't stated any as you're arguing about your own hypthetical scenario.

I find it hard to believe if United reached the final you would shrug your shoulders about the outcome. I think you and all Liverpool fans would be rooting for the opponent, as United fans would do if the shoe was on the other foot.

murpho999 wrote:

I don't think it's blinkered to say that losing a Champion's League final against Real Madrid or Bayern Munich is a greater achievement than winning a FA Cup final against Chelsea or Southampton.

Especially when you consider that Liverpool have only qualified once since before since 2009.

Arsenal won the FA Cup last season. Were their fans happy? Was Liverpool's season not more successful.

Who had reached their targets?
Liverpool's was to achieve Top 4 again firstly and anything else was a bonus.

I think Utd's was more than an FA Cup.

It is blinkered. It's very blinkered. Liverpool losing a Champions League final is not an achievement, just like United losing those finals to Barca were not achievements.

Cup wins will always have value, as Liverpool's do. I'm sure Liverpool fans value the memory of the 2006 FA Cup win, the famous "Gerrard final". Would you argue that Liverpool finishing in the top 4 last season deserves to be considered a comparable success to that Cup triumph? I would hope not.

We're going round in circles here so I'll sum up as follows:

I can say - without bias - that if United finish 2nd and win the FA Cup, a CL win for Liverpool means Liverpool have had the better season. Hell, even if Liverpool were to finish 4th a European success trumps United's season significantly.

I also say that if United win the FA Cup and finish 2nd, and Liverpool finish 3rd or 4th and trophyless, then United in that case have had the better season. I do not consider there to be any bias in that.

I'll even add that if Spurs finish 4th but win the FA Cup, and both United and Liverpool finish 2nd and 3rd and trophyless, then Spurs in that case will have had the better season.

I stand by my original point: the narrative that Jose has had a poor season and Klopp is manager of the season material is amusing and ought to be challenged when it is conceivable that the poor coach could finish the season in a higher position and with one trophy more than the MOTS contender. (And I'll reiterate once more I don't consider Jose's season, even if he lands the FA Cup and 2nd place to be MOTS-worthy, rather that it constitutes satisfactory progress compared to the state of the club last season)

Some people are taking this meaningless Internet poll badly...

Good thread, would read again

redzerdrog

If my aunty had balls

redzerdrog

redzerdrog wrote: »

If my aunty had balls

Hypothetically of course

Mr.H

Way too much Liverpool and United in here.

Pep is favourite for the moty
Rafa dyche and Wagner probably should be shortlisted for it based on achievements with their respective clubs.

Newcastle have a championship side and will finish high mid table.

Burnley could get Europa on a shoestring.

Wagner's side has played some great stuff and have definitely exceeded expectations.

But despite all the spending talk, pep has blown the league apart with his football. Cut have played brilliant stuff and finished miles ahead of the rest. They haven't had competition this season. So yes pep deserves it.

Lucas Hood

If Wagner is in with a shout for it then surely Hughton should be also?

Brighton have a point more and a much better goal difference.

gimli2112

I voted against party lines and went with Pepe, now I feel responsible that Klopp is last.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Can't see past Dyche, nobody else has exceeded expectations like he has. The top two have spent the most money, it is no surprise they are there and City has spent the most by far, Pep has done well but hardly a revolution, had a decent squad already and then spent

Is there a worst award? Hughes could be a good shout getting two teams relegated in a season is some achievement.

rob316

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Can't see past Dyche, nobody else has exceeded expectations like he has. The top two have spent the most money, it is no surprise they are there and City has spent the most by far, Pep has done well but hardly a revolution, had a decent squad already and then spent

Is there a worst award? Hughes could be a good shout getting two teams relegated in a season is some achievement.

What a **** show this thread has become.

Worst manager is pardew, 1 win he managed.

AGC

rob316 wrote: »

What a **** show this thread has become.

Worst manager is pardew, 1 win he managed.

De Boer had none