Betting Transaction on Bank Statement

theronca

"The banks have to be allowed to assess the data given otherwise they won't be able to determine the risk profile of the individual for a loan/mortgage. For example - I get a good wage but I'm terrible at saving it or I end up in overdraft every month because I like to shop. The bank has to be able to take that into consideration."
 
There's a difference between looking at balances at the end of every month and combing through what type of expenditures a person is making.   Analyzing balances is objective: looking at whether a prospective borrower is spending on gambling or the local pub (even if you still remain in the black every  month) and denying/approving a loan based on that info is a subjective call. 
It's the subjectivity of making judgments about particular kinds of purchases which strikes me as intrusive and inappropriate.

Theboinkmaster

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thinly veiled I stay in nice Hotels post :pac:

Quite right, no more messing from me either.

Good old Irish begrudgery :rolleyes:

Theboinkmaster

lawred2 wrote: »

wasn't really relevant was it?

More of it, fvck off then you pov it was relevant as he explained already.

theronca

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thinly veiled I stay in nice Hotels post :pac:

Quite right, no more messing from me either.

Good old Irish begrudgery :rolleyes:

  Indeed.  
Reading that post was a salutory reminder of what else (besides nosy-parker paternalism) has not changed since I left decades ago.

Captain Flaps

theronca wrote: »

"The banks have to be allowed to assess the data given otherwise they won't be able to determine the risk profile of the individual for a loan/mortgage. For example - I get a good wage but I'm terrible at saving it or I end up in overdraft every month because I like to shop. The bank has to be able to take that into consideration."
 
There's a difference between looking at balances at the end of every month and combing through what type of expenditures a person is making.   Analyzing balances is objective: looking at whether a prospective borrower is spending on gambling or the local pub (even if you still remain in the black every  month) and denying/approving a loan based on that info is a subjective call. 
It's the subjectivity of making judgments about particular kinds of purchases which strikes me as intrusive and inappropriate.

You're not being forced or coerced to provide the info though - you want the bank to lend you money, they want to make sure you'll be responsible with that money. I don't think it's a tremendous reach once they handle the information correctly and transparently. If you don't like the idea of your statements and spending habits being scrutinised then don't rely on a third party to assist you financially I guess?

theronca

Captain Flaps wrote: »

theronca wrote: »

"The banks have to be allowed to assess the data given otherwise they won't be able to determine the risk profile of the individual for a loan/mortgage. For example - I get a good wage but I'm terrible at saving it or I end up in overdraft every month because I like to shop. The bank has to be able to take that into consideration."
 
There's a difference between looking at balances at the end of every month and combing through what type of expenditures a person is making.   Analyzing balances is objective: looking at whether a prospective borrower is spending on gambling or the local pub (even if you still remain in the black every  month) and denying/approving a loan based on that info is a subjective call. 
It's the subjectivity of making judgments about particular kinds of purchases which strikes me as intrusive and inappropriate.

You're not being forced or coerced to provide the info though - you want the bank to lend you money, they want to make sure you'll be responsible with that money. I don't think it's a tremendous reach once they handle the information correctly and transparently. If you don't like the idea of your statements and spending habits being scrutinised then don't rely on a third party to assist you financially I guess?

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

Ultimate Seduction

I've put 20 a week every week in to my online powers account for years, wasn't even mentioned to me. I'd say it's big money gambling which could affect your ability to repay which is the issue.

theronca

theronca wrote: »

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

It's pretty clear that they are asking for the statements so they can analyse them in full and look at your spending etc. This is not news it's common knowledge, you are talking about it like it's something underhand or something that hasn't been going on for years.

Anyway I don't think a few transactions will make much difference that being said it's very easy to keep it off your account just get a paddy power cash card and you can lodge and withdraw from your online account to your hearts content without the bank knowing anyway, I've been using it for years.

Browney7

It's possible it was an excuse banks used for declining people they would have declined anyways

lawred2

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

More of it, fvck off then you pov it was relevant as he explained already.

Well that escalated

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Captain Flaps

theronca wrote: »

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

I'm not sure why you put that in quotes as I never implied they were doing you a favour. I'm just pointing out that if you want a bank loan the bank wants to ensure you're a safe investment.

They don't give a damn what you're spending your cash on once it's not something that's an obvious red flag when it comes to lending large sums of cash. Nobody is being petty or begrudging you anything either, you've just swanned in here and waffled on about how you've loads of cash and this kind of thing is beneath you. You'd have had absolutely no pushback at all if you'd contributed anything remotely of value to the topic at hand.

As I can see from your other thread you're also purchasing, congrats. I just went through the mortgage process and there was no hassle with anything on my statements, it was just an inflow/outflow/rent/income review as you mentioned above. They don't care about anything unless you've a bundle of betting transactions there, which might warrant a closer look.

robbiezero

keane2097 wrote: »

Mentioned elsewhere also, had well in excess of six figures through my AIB accounts in and out of various sports betting sites in the year or two prior to applying for mortgage and wasn't even asked about it. We are due to draw down in the next couple of weeks.

The bet on the Grand National preventing an otherwise in order application from being accepted just has to be nonsense, it's not credible.

As a matter of interest, what online bookies are allowing you to bet at that scale?

Bubbaclaus

theronca wrote: »

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

I'm curious. What's going through your bank statements that you don't want them to see?

keane2097

robbiezero wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what online bookies are allowing you to bet at that scale?

All of them initially, down to none bar exchanges over time. If you are spreading your bets across various sites and in shops it can take a bit longer to get closed down. It depends how well you run with particular bookies.

For instance in my case I can still get decent bets on most things with B365 and to a lesser extent PP but haven't been able to have a bet with Ladbrokes, Hills, SJ, Bet Victor and probably several more for years.

theronca

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

theronca wrote: »

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

I'm curious. What's going through your bank statements that you don't want them to see?

I believe it's the OP who has something on his bank statement that he is concerned about.

CruelCoin

theronca wrote: »

Hate to read this kind of story as an expat thinking of coming home.  The kind of nosy-parker paternalism that makes me want to run a mile....

When you're asking other people to risk their money on you, they can be as nosey as they like.

You'd swear, people think it should be ****ing free.

theronca

CruelCoin wrote: »

theronca wrote: »

Hate to read this kind of story as an expat thinking of coming home.  The kind of nosy-parker paternalism that makes me want to run a mile....

When you're asking other people to risk their money on you, they can be as nosey as they like.

You'd swear, people think it should be ****ing free.

Well, if you're happy with the situation, and feel their nosiness is justified, there is no problem, is there?

To someone who has borrowed within a different system, where what is examined are simply numbers, the Irish system seems unreasonably intrusive and objectionably subjective.

 Two different approaches to measuring risk, but that loan is not remotely "free" in either scenario.

witchgirl26

theronca wrote: »

Well, if you're happy with the situation, and feel their nosiness is justified, there is no problem, is there?

To someone who has borrowed within a different system, where what is examined are simply numbers, the Irish system seems unreasonably intrusive and objectionably subjective.

 Two different approaches to measuring risk, but that loan is not remotely "free" in either scenario.

The problem with examining just the numbers and not the background is that it doesn't give you the best view of the risk you're taking.

For example: Person A & B both have incomes of €3000 per month and show outgoings of €2500 per month each. Looks like both the same on your scale but if you look at the statements and the nature of those outgoings you see that Person A saves €1000 a month, spends €900 on rent and €600 on general living expenses whereas Person B saves €250 a month, spends €900 on rent and spends €1350. Now the more detailed information gives you a more full picture and it's a lot clearer where the larger risk lies.

OP I'd say if there isn't a high number and large amount of betting transactions on your statements you should be ok. They're more looking for risky behaviour which would be a large amount consistently being transferred.

theronca

witchgirl26 wrote: »

theronca wrote: »

Well, if you're happy with the situation, and feel their nosiness is justified, there is no problem, is there?

To someone who has borrowed within a different system, where what is examined are simply numbers, the Irish system seems unreasonably intrusive and objectionably subjective.

 Two different approaches to measuring risk, but that loan is not remotely "free" in either scenario.

The problem with examining just the numbers and not the background is that it doesn't give you the best view of the risk you're taking.

For example: Person A & B both have incomes of €3000 per month and show outgoings of €2500 per month each. Looks like both the same on your scale but if you look at the statements and the nature of those outgoings you see that Person A saves €1000 a month, spends €900 on rent and €600 on general living expenses whereas Person B saves €250 a month, spends €900 on rent and spends €1350. Now the more detailed information gives you a more full picture and it's a lot clearer where the larger risk lies.

 

In both cases, there would be other account balances furnished to the Bank from the brokerage accounts or savings accounts where the savings is kept and showing total accrual over time of the different sums ($250 vs $1000).  So, again, all the Bank really needs is the numbers.

Asus X540L

I have two bank accounts.
One I use for poker and the other I don't.

Can I just give them one. Will they know about the other one

Bubbaclaus

Asus X540L wrote: »

I have two bank accounts.
One I use for poker and the other I don't.

Can I just give them one. Will they know about the other one

You are asking if you can lie in your mortgage application?

DubJJ

Asus X540L wrote: »

I have two bank accounts.
One I use for poker and the other I don't.

Can I just give them one. Will they know about the other one

Chances are now, with the new credit register, they will know all about other accounts, credit cards, loans etc.
I was talking to my credit card company about 2 weeks ago and they new about car finance I had and the payments were set up from my wife's bank account.

if you withhold it then your application will probably be turned down straight away.

DubJJ

DubJJ wrote: »

Chances are now, with the new credit register, they will know all about other accounts, credit cards, loans etc.
I was talking to my credit card company about 2 weeks ago and they new about car finance I had and the payments were set up from my wife's bank account.

if you withhold it then your application will probably be turned down straight away.

I didn't give any details about a number of accounts and had no difficulty getting mortgage approval.

DubJJ

Frederick Loud Rubber wrote: »

I didn't give any details about a number of accounts and had no difficulty getting mortgage approval.

Was that recently (just curious)?
I know the new credit register was supposed to come into affect in Feb and I'm assuming that's how they new about my loan.

DubJJ

DubJJ wrote: »

Was that recently (just curious)?
I know the new credit register was supposed to come into affect in Feb and I'm assuming that's how they new about my loan.

It was over a year ago. I didn't end up drawing it down so may even they would have come across them later in the process. It didn't really matter I just didn't feel it was necessary to give details about accountability that had nothing to do with the application and have to get statements etc.

Loans are probably more highlighted so they would come across them easier.

DubJJ

Frederick Loud Rubber wrote: »

Loans are probably more highlighted so they would come across them easier.

You might be right, it looks like it's more focused on loans so it may not hold info on bank accounts

https://www.centralbank.ie/consumer-hub/explainers/what-is-central-credit-register

UsBus

In terms of putting money into your betting account, can you not just use a credit card for that.? If you're only supplying bank statements, then your credit card amount will be the only figure showing up and not where you used it.. They don't look for credit card statements in a mortgage application as well do they.?

What Username Guidelines

UsBus wrote: »

In terms of putting money into your betting account, can you not just use a credit card for that.? If you're only supplying bank statements, then your credit card amount will be the only figure showing up and not where you used it.. They don't look for credit card statements in a mortgage application as well do they.?

Yep they look at every account you have. All loans, credit cards, no matter who the provider is or what state they’re in.

Captain Flaps

Sign up for a free revolut account and top that up for gambling.