Is Islam right for Ireland?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah bit longer goggling this time.
The point of the thread is about Islam in Ireland. The majority of posters, you included, seem to think that Islam in Ireland is going to cause some massive changes, that we will all be subjected to sharia law & forbidden from eating rashers.
I am well aware of the history of Kosovo thanks & just because it doesn't fit your agenda doesn't make it any less Muslim.
It's a majority Muslim country.

Ok so what % is ok? 49% ? What point is enough for you?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok so what % is ok? 49% ? What point is enough for you?

I don't even know what this means?

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

No, they don't fit your idea of what a Muslim country is.
This country is over 96% Muslim. There are none of the issues you seem to think are going to befall Ireland in the future.
So as you can see, it's not the religion that is the problem.

So how many muslim migrants from Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Eritrea has Kosova got ?

How many of current population of Kosova grew up in what was Serbia/Serbia and Montenegro or for that matter in what was Yugoslavia under Tito or indeed under Milosevic ?
Kosova has only iexisted for 10 odd years and before that was a region within ostensibly a Christian or communist state.

Firing out Kosova as an example of a muslim state is akin to firing out East Timor as an example of a Far Eastern state.

Also the people in Kosova have been under European influence and norms for a lot longer than any of immigrants that have come to Europe in the past and the ones that you and others want to foist upon Ireland.

And you can't use Albania either because it has been under a state enforced atheism for most of the last 100 years.

And you keep failing to acknowledge fact that authorities have been fighting fundamentalism over the 10 years of the state's existence as highlighted by points above.

Summer In the City

jmayo wrote: »

So how many muslim migrants from Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Eritrea has Kosova got ?
...

What point are you trying to make here exactly? You reckon Kosovo, Albania, UAE are not Muslim countries because some were communist, some are cosmopolitan... I have no idea what you're actually trying to say.

It is a Muslim majority country. Just because it doesn't fit what you perceive a Muslim country to be, doesn't matter.

Life is perfectly 'western' here, if that's how you like it described.
People on this thread are complaining about Muslims coming into Ireland & changing it. I am merely proving that its not Islam.
You can't say 'Muslims do this & that because Islam is this & the other' & when it is shown that there are plenty of Muslims who don't do those things, turn around & say ' oh well not those Muslims in those Muslim countries! I mean the other ones....'

So, if you have a problem with certain people I would suggest you look beyond their religion because it's clearly NOT the religion.

Jokes

The only people I feel for are the women and children , if it helps to get them a better life im glad to have them here but their men folk are complete barbarians as in the rape culture towards their own children i know they're poor but come on ! I would honestly love to see a day where these barbaric are put down I am sick of readiing about the rapes and tortures and stealing of children amd nothing can be done Eg like kabul Afghanistan , pakistan india they dont value life like we do

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Life is perfectly 'western' here, if that's how you like it described. People on this thread are complaining about Muslims coming into Ireland & changing it. I am merely proving that its not Islam.
You can't say 'Muslims do this & that because Islam is this & the other' & when it is shown that there are plenty of Muslims who don't do those things, turn around & say ' oh well not those Muslims in those Muslim countries! I mean the other ones....'

So, if you have a problem with certain people I would suggest you look beyond their religion because it's clearly NOT the religion.

I must admit I find it amusing. If posters comment about Muslims, we are told that not all Muslims are the same. I know that Islam isn't even a single faith, and the degree in which people follow Islam is mostly a personal choice unless they're within a very traditional/enclosed Islam community. The culture and behavior of Muslims differs very much depending not only about which country you're talking about, but also whether you're talking about someone from the city vs the countryside, or depending on their educational background, etc.

I would agree that Islam, in itself, is not the problem. There have been Muslims living within Western society already for hundreds of years without any problems. The problem depends on the degree to which they apply the "rules" of Islamic philosophy or Islamic law to their lives, and by extension to others outside their faith.

And that's the point of these kinds of discussions. How are the rules on behavior for Islamic followers being applied to people not of the religion? In countries like France, we are seeing cases (considering how much of a minority they are) of pushing Islamic culture on to non-Islamic followers, and the taking over of areas with the view that Islamic traditions should be followed within those areas. Those traditions associated with women's behavior and attire.

I earlier said I found it amusing being told that all Muslims are not the same. The reason I find it amusing is because they are correct. Not all muslims are the same... because by that same very logic, it suggests that not all muslims are going to fit within own their views of Muslims and Islam. It's the reason that certain nations/nationalities are given when talking about Islam, as if that makes them 'better', but even within a single country, we're going to have progressive muslims vs traditional muslims, extemist muslims vs the moderates, etc. etc etc. Not all Muslims are the same, and we have no way of knowing their beliefs until they express them.

I'm not worried about Islam taking over. It's not going to happen in my lifetime, if it happens at all, which I'm skeptical of. I don't talk about terrorism because I don't associate Terrorism with Islamic people or Islamic culture. However, I am concerned about allowing Islamic cultural laws into our legal system as a "gesture" of goodwill and creating a precedence for further additions. I am more concerned with how Muslims coming into Europe are behaving, and whether they feel their own customs/traditions/laws are more important than the traditions/laws of the host country.

I'd rather that Ireland didn't experience the same social/cultural problems as France, and while I've seen claims that would never happen, I haven't seen anything to suggest that it couldn't happen here. Apart from claims, I haven't even heard of any suggestion of how to prevent it from happening here. Instead, discussions are shut down pretty quickly with accusations of bigotry, or other 'labels'. Fact is: I don't want my nieces having to deal with that 'extreme' Islamic culture unless they choose to go traveling to a foreign country.

Never thought I'd be imagining France when I said that.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Deleted User wrote: »

The really gas thing is that even if we don't consider all muslims to be the same and say this in out in some of our posts, many of us will still be accused of assuming all muslims are the same. It's a standard response to shut down discussion.

For every right winged poster with a badly researched extreme viewpoint, there is a extreme liberal wannabe with equally poor knowledge.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm curious... Do you consider me to be of the Anti-Muslim Brigade?

Well, you made me work and go back to check your posts in this thread

You seem to have genuine and understandable problems with Sharia Law and Muslim fundamentalism - so do I. You point out in Post 49 that there are many different types of Muslims too, so you don't seem to be someone who automatically assumes all Muslims are fundamentalist terrorists.

So I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt!

Summer In the City

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Anyone want answer the above?

Anyone at all?

There's lots of ways of preventing some of the problems that happened in these countries. Not creating ghettos is the main one.

What about the good that has been brought to these countries which people love to ignore.

Swedens greatest footballer - Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Frances greatest footballer - Zinedine Zidane

The best footballer in England this year is Egyptian
Should Mohamed Salah be denied entry to Britain? What makes him a hero but his neighbour a risk?

masculinist

Summer In the City wrote: »

What about the good that has been brought to these countries which people love to ignore.

Swedens greatest footballer - Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Frances greatest footballer - Zinedine Zidane

The best footballer in England this year is Egyptian
Should Mohamed Salah be denied entry to Britain? What makes him a hero but his neighbour a risk?

what about all those doctors and lawyers they were promised ?

Summer In the City

masculinist wrote: »

what about all those doctors and lawyers they were promised ?

What about the lovely food they brought?

Pepefrogok

Summer In the City wrote: »

What about the lovely food they brought?

I suppose that's a fair trade! Next attack like the Manchester arena I'll just suppress my shock and anger with a nice kebab! All the groomed children could get compo in fast food vouchers! Raped and blown up children is shurly a price worth paying for diverse food! Just to be clear though as I wouldn't want to offend, is eating their food cultural appropriation?

Cordell

We have the recipe now...
https://youtu.be/sg-4ATrE8n0?t=83

Summer In the City

Pepefrogok wrote: »

I suppose that's a fair trade! Next attack like the Manchester arena I'll just suppress my shock and anger with a nice kebab! All the groomed children could get compo in fast food vouchers! Raped and blown up children is shurly a price worth paying for diverse food! Just to be clear though as I wouldn't want to offend, is eating their food cultural appropriation?

Yeah, like the Brits drinking Guinness. When the paddy's were blowing up Manchester and raping their kids in boys homes they sat back with a nice pint of plain. We all get on great now so maybe you're on to something for the first time in your life.

murphthesmurf

To decide whether it is right for Ireland we should look at other places where Islam has made home.
Sweden for example has areas with a very high number of Muslim migrants. These areas are no go areas for the police, if they are chasing a car and it enters certain areas they do not persue it. Sweden is also now the rape capital of Europe. Muslim gangs often go to music concerts specifically to sexually assault young women. They pick out a yoing girl and surround her so as to prevent anyone such as security intervening while they take it in turns to assault her. Mumford and Sons amongst others refuse to play at music concerts in Sweden until the problem is sorted. So its not worked out too well there.

Merkel has welcomed Islam with open arms. New yrs eve 2015 a few thousand of the new arrivals celebrated getting a new home by sexually assaulting women on new yrs eve around train stations. Germanys rape levels have increased considerably, a German feminist group held a protest march to demand the government do something as they no longer feel safe walking the streets. They were attacked during the march by anti-facists which is interesting, get raped quietly appears to be the message there.

The UK, which I have had a lot of first hand experience of as i was born there and lived most of my life there. Rotherham is an obvious example. Thousands of young girls raped and abused, given drugs and alcohol while as many as 50 men queued up to have sex with them. Theirs and their families lives threatened if they spoke a word to anyone. One young girls was branded with an 'M' on her bottom to signify that she is the property of Muslims. Girls as young as 11. This is not exclusive to Rotherham, Oxford had similar, Luton, Telford is the most recent to be exposed. Some horrific stories. This has been going on for a long time in almost every town/city with a high Muslim population in the UK. It was common knowledge for me and everyone I know for a long time. Tens of thousands of young vulnerable girls. This wasn't done by a small minority of Muslims. There would be queues of men waiting to take turns on these girls, as many as 50 at a time. There will be many more of these cases being discovered for other towns and cities I would bet my life on it.
On a Friday or Sat night I would go out to a nightclub in Birmingham. In that nightclub would be English, Jamaicans, Sikh, Hindu etc etc. We would mix, some of my friends were sikh, some black. The only people missing from the nightclub would be Muslims, with the exception of the odd Kosovan. The Muslims would all be driving around outside waiting for the girls to come out. Waiting to target the girls who had too much to drink or strayed away from their friends. This is something I would see week in week out. I lived outside of Birmingham around the black country. An area near me was Tipton, an area with quite a few jihadi fighters. They were known as the Tipton Taliban.
There are areas that we do not go, Smethwick, Small Heath, Handsworth.

Then there is France, things haven't been going well here either.
The Italians have had thousands of Migrants arriving on their shores, they recently voted for an anti immigration party.
I've left out all the obvious terror attacks that we all know about, like the children at the music concert in Manchester.

I'm not a racist, although I probably sound like one. To understand what it is really like living with a high population of Islam you have to have done it yourself. There is no where in Ireland that currently comes close. Sexual assault and rape is by no means exclusive to Islam, but where Islam goes it appears rape goes. There are many rapists of other religeons, but where a girl who is being raped is shared between father, son, uncles and cousins seems exclusive to Islam. Islam is the only religeon whose profit married and had sex with a 9 gr old girl. There are many horiffic stories and teaching in the bible too and all other books like it, but we know better than to take any notice of it. Christians follow a fraction of what the bible says. The west is thankfully becoming increasingly athiest.
Now let the left begin their assault. To answer the first inevitable response that will follow asking for links to prove my claims, kt took me long enough to write out this on my 5h1tty tablet I'm not going to spend another 20 mkns trying to put in links. Google is your friend, it's all freely available.

Snickers Man

ford2600 wrote: »

Compare Nobel laureates; Jews make up over 20% of winners from less than 0.2% of the world's population. 1.4% of winners have been Muslim.

Too much can be made of that. There was once a Rabbi who justified ritual male infant genital mutilation by saying: "My son cried more during his first haircut than during his briss and the only long-term effect is to increase your chances of winning a Nobel Prize".

Christopher Hitchens made him wish he hadn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZTS6iVpSPI

cocaliquid

Summer In the City wrote: »

Yeah, like the Brits drinking Guinness. When the paddy's were blowing up Manchester and raping their kids in boys homes they sat back with a nice pint of plain. We all get on great now so maybe you're on to something for the first time in your life.

You made me laugh so hard at your ignorance.

Summer In the City

cocaliquid wrote: »

You made me laugh so hard at your ignorance.

Well done. You identified a joke.

Snickers Man

TheManTheMyth wrote: »

There have been countless stories of Muslim immigrants degrading women and gay people all across Europe and generally not integrating into the countries that they have moved to, personally i was very pro migrant about a year (maybe a year and a half) ago but have completely 180'd on the topic and now have a serious feeling of discomfort when i think about Islam spreading to Ireland. Am i the only person who feels like we have enough problems without adding this new religion into the mix? the idea that governments want to change the views of their own people rather than address the source of the issue (in my eyes Islam and the less liberal nations from which these groups originate)scares me because it sends us back to the times of keeping everything silent, it will only lead to another catholic church situation where eventually their atrocities all come to light at once.

What is this? Advance publicity for the appearance in Dublin shortly of Douglas Murray, a repulsive little Anglo-Scottish fear and hate monger who parrots drivel like this in a learned languid manner that could lull you into thinking there is an ounce of intelligence, insight or sensitivity underpinning it?

This is exactly the sort of ****e he comes out with. And it's all bollox.

Captain Obvious

murphthesmurf wrote: »

To decide whether it is right for Ireland we should look at other places where Islam has made home.
Sweden for example has areas with a very high number of Muslim migrants. These areas are no go areas for the police, if they are chasing a car and it enters certain areas they do not persue it. Sweden is also now the rape capital of Europe. Muslim gangs often go to music concerts specifically to sexually assault young women. They pick out a yoing girl and surround her so as to prevent anyone such as security intervening while they take it in turns to assault her. Mumford and Sons amongst others refuse to play at music concerts in Sweden until the problem is sorted. So its not worked out too well there.

Merkel has welcomed Islam with open arms. New yrs eve 2015 a few thousand of the new arrivals celebrated getting a new home by sexually assaulting women on new yrs eve around train stations. Germanys rape levels have increased considerably, a German feminist group held a protest march to demand the government do something as they no longer feel safe walking the streets. They were attacked during the march by anti-facists which is interesting, get raped quietly appears to be the message there.

The UK, which I have had a lot of first hand experience of as i was born there and lived most of my life there. Rotherham is an obvious example. Thousands of young girls raped and abused, given drugs and alcohol while as many as 50 men queued up to have sex with them. Theirs and their families lives threatened if they spoke a word to anyone. One young girls was branded with an 'M' on her bottom to signify that she is the property of Muslims. Girls as young as 11. This is not exclusive to Rotherham, Oxford had similar, Luton, Telford is the most recent to be exposed. Some horrific stories. This has been going on for a long time in almost every town/city with a high Muslim population in the UK. It was common knowledge for me and everyone I know for a long time. Tens of thousands of young vulnerable girls. This wasn't done by a small minority of Muslims. There would be queues of men waiting to take turns on these girls, as many as 50 at a time. There will be many more of these cases being discovered for other towns and cities I would bet my life on it.
On a Friday or Sat night I would go out to a nightclub in Birmingham. In that nightclub would be English, Jamaicans, Sikh, Hindu etc etc. We would mix, some of my friends were sikh, some black. The only people missing from the nightclub would be Muslims, with the exception of the odd Kosovan. The Muslims would all be driving around outside waiting for the girls to come out. Waiting to target the girls who had too much to drink or strayed away from their friends. This is something I would see week in week out. I lived outside of Birmingham around the black country. An area near me was Tipton, an area with quite a few jihadi fighters. They were known as the Tipton Taliban.
There are areas that we do not go, Smethwick, Small Heath, Handsworth.

Then there is France, things haven't been going well here either.
The Italians have had thousands of Migrants arriving on their shores, they recently voted for an anti immigration party.
I've left out all the obvious terror attacks that we all know about, like the children at the music concert in Manchester.

I'm not a racist, although I probably sound like one. To understand what it is really like living with a high population of Islam you have to have done it yourself. There is no where in Ireland that currently comes close. Sexual assault and rape is by no means exclusive to Islam, but where Islam goes it appears rape goes. There are many rapists of other religeons, but where a girl who is being raped is shared between father, son, uncles and cousins seems exclusive to Islam. Islam is the only religeon whose profit married and had sex with a 9 gr old girl. There are many horiffic stories and teaching in the bible too and all other books like it, but we know better than to take any notice of it. Christians follow a fraction of what the bible says. The west is thankfully becoming increasingly athiest.
Now let the left begin their assault. To answer the first inevitable response that will follow asking for links to prove my claims, kt took me long enough to write out this on my 5h1tty tablet I'm not going to spend another 20 mkns trying to put in links. Google is your friend, it's all freely available.

Can you add your sources to all those statistical claims?

Captain Obvious

80% seem happy with integration among immigrants.

The_Kew_Tour

That's cause those questioned were immigrants:P

jmayo

Summer In the City wrote: »

What point are you trying to make here exactly? You reckon Kosovo, Albania, UAE are not Muslim countries because some were communist, some are cosmopolitan... I have no idea what you're actually trying to say.

I never said they weren't muslim countries, but they are not representative of a lot of the majorily muslim countries, and especially those who are sending the majority of the immigrants.

And yes it is because the likes of Kosova and Albania have a European and communist past.
The communist regimes didn't have any truck with religions, islam especially.
Hence a lot of people did not practice and people grew up in environments where religion did not have major sway on social and cultural life.
Compare that to North Africa, Middle East or Pakistan and Afghanistan which has had islam dictating social and cultural life for centuries and especially in the last 60/70 odd years since independence from colonial powers.

bubblypop wrote: »

It is a Muslim majority country. Just because it doesn't fit what you perceive a Muslim country to be, doesn't matter.

Life is perfectly 'western' here, if that's how you like it described.

Ehh it is in Europe.
I think we have said that already.
But as I pointed out earlier the state has big problems with certain foreign muslim states backing charities and organisations that are trying to spread a more fundamentalist brand of islam.

Can you concede that point ?

After reading some of the stuff I am impressed how much of an effort the authorities are making in trying to prevent their newly created state becoming a hot bed of fundamentalists.

bubblypop wrote: »

People on this thread are complaining about Muslims coming into Ireland & changing it. I am merely proving that its not Islam.
You can't say 'Muslims do this & that because Islam is this & the other' & when it is shown that there are plenty of Muslims who don't do those things, turn around & say ' oh well not those Muslims in those Muslim countries! I mean the other ones....'

So, if you have a problem with certain people I would suggest you look beyond their religion because it's clearly NOT the religion.

I suppose the point is when people say the muslim world they generally mean North Africa, Middle East and parts of Asia, not a few countries in Europe.

But to some it is just not their religion, it can be an encompassing ideology and drives social and cultural interactions.
That can be the major difference between your Kosovan muslims and those destined for Europe from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Middle East, North Africa.

Would a lot of Kosovans have grown up in an environment where girls went out, women wore skirts and sleeveless tops, people drank alcohol and went night clubbing?

If you grew up in Afghanistan you would need to be nearly 50 something to have experienced anything similar and even then it would only have been those in the likes of Kabul.

If you grew up in some countries you would never have experienced any of that.

And those are the ones now turning up in Europe.

Grayson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I'm not a racist,

Sure you are. But what's one more lie. You should google all the claims you made there. There's so much stuff that's just completely wrong.

gw80

Captain Obvious wrote: »

80% seem happy with integration among immigrants.

That piece is a bit misleading tbh, by mistake or not.im not sure.
It seems to me at first it is talking about immigrants which most people would asume to be eu migrants, and i would definitely believe that 80% of people have no problem with, but then it shoehorns in the word refugees, and thats a different kettle of fish.
To me its a bit dishonest to lump them all in together to give people the impression that its all the same situation.

And i think its a bit dishonest of you to link that piece into a thread about islam. Do you think 80% of the population would be happy about muslim immigrants?

JohnMc1

Grayson wrote: »

Sure you are. But what's one more lie. You should google all the claims you made there. There's so much stuff that's just completely wrong.

The New Year's Eve rapes have been public knowledge for a couple of years now.

The_Kew_Tour

gw80 wrote: »

That piece is a bit misleading tbh, by mistake or not.im not sure.
It seems to me at first it is talking about immigrants which most people would asume to be eu migrants, and i would definitely believe that 80% of people have no problem with, but then it shoehorns in the word refugees, and thats a different kettle of fish.
To me its a bit dishonest to lump them all in together to give people the impression that its all the same situation.

And i think its a bit dishonest of you to link that piece into a thread about islam. Do you think 80% of the population would be happy about muslim immigrants?

Yep read it and was its bit all over shop, without it even being all over shop, if get me:pac:

The_Kew_Tour

Grayson wrote: »

Sure you are. But what's one more lie. You should google all the claims you made there. There's so much stuff that's just completely wrong.

Can you show where he hates a Race of People Please?

BuilderPlumber

I feel there are other threats going on in Ireland. In the rush to demonise Muslims and immigrants, the media and nationalists ignore a lot. For me, I have come across the following:

Crime and anti social behaviour. 99% conducted by settled Irish nationals.
Condemnation of lifestyles including alcohol consumption. Not by Muslims. I have met many Muslims and never did they say to stop going to bars or buying alcohol. However, the health fanatic brigade in the media are always condemning alcohol, sugar and many other food and drink products. There is a Taliban in Ireland, a Health Taliban and nothing Islamic about it.
Religious fanaticism. I have encountered these and all of them are either old style Catholics or born again types.

BuilderPlumber

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I feel there are other threats going on in Ireland. In the rush to demonise Muslims and immigrants, the media and nationalists ignore a lot.

I must have blinked. When have the media in Ireland demonized or even come close to criticizing Muslims or immigrants?

They've complained about the governments handling of the situation, and rightly so... but virtually every piece I've seen from the Irish media is an effort to generate support for immigrants/refugees.

Snickers Man

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The New Year's Eve rapes have been public knowledge for a couple of years now.

Except they weren't "rapes". They were "sexual assaults". Handbag snatching, bottom pinching, maybe the odd bit of groping.

Not something any woman should or even will put up with any more. And fair play to them. But exaggerating the event to drum up hatred of a fairly heterogeneous but nonetheless identifiable group is despicable.

quintana76

Snickers Man wrote: »

What is this? Advance publicity for the appearance in Dublin shortly of Douglas Murray, a repulsive little Anglo-Scottish fear and hate monger who parrots drivel like this in a learned languid manner that could lull you into thinking there is an ounce of intelligence, insight or sensitivity underpinning it?

This is exactly the sort of ****e he comes out with. And it's all bollox.

Prove it. Give some examples where he "hate monges?"

Sounds like he is is succeeding in getting to you. You need to calm down.
A very strange way of expressing your "tolerance" to those who have a different opinion to you.

Captain Obvious

gw80 wrote: »

That piece is a bit misleading tbh, by mistake or not.im not sure.
It seems to me at first it is talking about immigrants which most people would asume to be eu migrants, and i would definitely believe that 80% of people have no problem with, but then it shoehorns in the word refugees, and thats a different kettle of fish.

It doesn't say anything about EU immigrants and I'm not sure why you'd think that's what it refers to.

gw80 wrote: »

To me its a bit dishonest to lump them all in together to give people the impression that its all the same situation.

The questionnaire makes it pretty clear.

In this interview, immigrants are defined as people born outside the European
Union, who have moved away from their country of birth and are at the moment staying
legally in (OUR COUNTRY).

gw80 wrote: »

And i think its a bit dishonest of you to link that piece into a thread about islam. Do you think 80% of the population would be happy about muslim immigrants?

Considering all the nonsense "statistics" you lot are throwing about I thought an actual recent statistic would be refreshing. I get it though. it doesn't feel great to be in such a minority.

Snickers Man

quintana76 wrote: »

Prove it. Give some examples where he "hate monges?"

Just do a search on youtube for Douglas Murray and Islam and take your pick from whatever comes up.

He just drones on and on about how it was such a mistake to let them all in and has NOTHING to say ANYWHERE (go on, prove me wrong) about what to do about it. We are left to fill in the gaps ourselves and inevitably there are many who conclude that "we've got to send them back" or "If they won't go, there's only one thing left to do".

At which point the effete Mr Murray will get all self righteous and say "Oh but I never said that...!"

As Pete Townshend put it more than 40 years ago:
"The men who stirred us on
Sit in judgement of our wrong.
They decide and the shotgun sings the song"

Grayson

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The New Year's Eve rapes have been public knowledge for a couple of years now.

As someone pointed out it wasn't thousands of men raping.

Plus all the crap that was said about sweden is a lie.

Everything in that post comes straight from alt right websites with zero fact checking at any point in the process. Actually, to be fair they probably don't even go to a right wing website. they probably get all their information from facebook memes put up by britain first.

I spend most of my time in these threads debunking stuff about no go areas and rape capitals and types of other crap.
These threads never involve a reasoned debate because so many islamaphobic lies are spouted or people decide that it's ok to infer what a billion people are like based on the actions of a few.

Snake Plisken

Typical Green Party attitude the people of Kilkenny have a right to question the building of a second mosque

https://twitter.com/brianmurphycllr/status/986987266504626177?s=21

wexie

Grayson wrote: »

Everything in that post comes straight from alt right websites with zero fact checking at any point in the process. Actually, to be fair they probably don't even go to a right wing website. they probably get all their information from facebook memes put up by britain first.

Ah now, can't let facts or some inconvenient truth get in the way of a good rant now can we?

And if you ever get called out on it just start shouting things like : cucks, libtards or whatever insults you can up with

Grayson

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Typical Green Party attitude the people of Kilkenny have a right to question the building of a second mosque

https://twitter.com/brianmurphycllr/status/986987266504626177?s=21

Couple of points. Firstly, you can't put up something like that unless you put up what he was referring to.

Also, the replies to that tweet are racist. Some are really, really racist.

Finally, he's talking about the left silencing dissent. He's the fcuker that doesn't want some muslims to build a mosque. He's denying their freedoms. He's the one who doesn't want other voices heard.

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

These threads never involve a reasoned debate because so many islamaphobic lies are spouted or people decide that it's ok to infer what a billion people are like based on the actions of a few.

Out of curiosity, anything I've said that was propaganda or lies?

As I've said previously, there are posters from both sides with poorly researched beliefs. Unfortunately, these also seem to be the majority of posters on both sides.

Grayson

quintana76 wrote: »

Prove it. Give some examples where he "hate monges?"

Sounds like he is is succeeding in getting to you. You need to calm down.
A very strange way of expressing your "tolerance" to those who have a different opinion to you.

His wikipedia page?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Murray_(author)#Views_on_Islam

wexie

Deleted User wrote: »

As I've said previously, there are posters from both sides with poorly researched beliefs. Unfortunately, these also seem to be the majority of posters on both sides.

And, that would be okay too. If it weren't for the facts these beliefs are being presented as facts

wexie

wexie wrote: »

And, that would be okay too. If it weren't for the facts these beliefs are being presented as facts

Aren't misguided beliefs usually presented as "facts" on boards? That's why we generally request links to prove where they came from.

wexie

Deleted User wrote: »

Aren't misguided beliefs usually presented as "facts" on boards? That's why we generally request links to prove where they came from.

everything gets presented as feckin facts if it suits.

I actually think this is quite an interesting discussion, certainly worth having.
Just tend to stay out if it once the 'far left' 'libtard' 'racist' 'islamophobe' accusations start flying.

Snake Plisken

Grayson wrote: »

Couple of points. Firstly, you can't put up something like that unless you put up what he was referring to.

Also, the replies to that tweet are racist. Some are really, really racist.

Finally, he's talking about the left silencing dissent. He's the fcuker that doesn't want some muslims to build a mosque. He's denying their freedoms. He's the one who doesn't want other voices heard.

Sigh here you go
https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/307536/information-meeting-on-kilkenny-mosque-descends-into-heated-chaos.html

wexie

wexie wrote: »

everything gets presented as feckin facts if it suits.

I actually think this is quite an interesting discussion, certainly worth having.
Just tend to stay out if it once the 'far left' 'libtard' 'racist' 'islamophobe' accusations start flying.

You left out bigot, racist, etc.

Trust me. It doesn't matter how reasonable you are in your posting... if you object to the approved idea of being helpful/compassionate/charitable etc, then you'll be labelled something nasty.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Grayson wrote: »

His wikipedia page?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Murray_(author)#Views_on_Islam

"His comments about Islamic extremism in the Netherlands mean that he has to have a police guard when travelling there."

Now if someone said the same about Jewdaism, any Christian religion or Buddhism, do you think he'd need a police guard when travelling back?

Odhinn

Pepefrogok wrote: »

A lot of people in here professing in depth knowledge of Islam, saying it's only a tiny majority are "extremists" well that simply depends on where you set the bar for extremism??? If a person thinks someone who leaves their religion (apostasy) should be murdered then would you consider them an extremist? Death to gays? That a woman should be covers up at all times and have less rights including inheritance rights? That if someone offends God or his messenger they should be killed?

I hate to break it to you liberals, I know yous are coming from a good place and don't want to sew division but yous are wrong, all polling points towards a majority of Muslims the planet wide failing my benchmark for being radical, every country where Islam has came to and became even a moderate minority has came to regret it, of all the times it has been tried Muslims growing their percentage of the population in a country has failed and let to bloodshed, Europe won't be different, Ireland won't be different. If you believe I am wrong then just find me an example, just one solitary example of where adherents of Islam becoming more represented in a country has been a good thing? Even if you find one it will be a lonely example in a sea of where it went wrong!

This is a perfect example of it and because it was written over 10 years ago we can actually judge it with hindsight, look at wether the examples given have became better or worse? Has the percentage of Muslims grown? Basically is what he saying correct? No opinions, guess work or feelings, just facts.

In Dr. Peter Hammond’s book,........................

What's he a Doctor of?

Pepefrogok

Snickers Man wrote: »

Except they weren't "rapes". They were "sexual assaults". Handbag snatching, bottom pinching, maybe the odd bit of groping.

Not something any woman should or even will put up with any more. And fair play to them. But exaggerating the event to drum up hatred of a fairly heterogeneous but nonetheless identifiable group is despicable.

Disgusting attitude, you even have sexual assaults in quotes as if to make them seem nothing, women were raped, some women had fingers put in their vaginas without their consent. With attitudes like yours no wonder your siding with the misogynist culture and wanting more of it.

wexie

Odhinn wrote: »

What's he a Doctor of?

From Amazon....(no wiki page oddly enough, I'm guessing because most likely it wouldn't have been overly flattering) judging from this biography though...he seems like just the kinda fellow that would have an even and unbiased outlook on life and the world in general....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I dunno, decide for yourself

The official government of Sudan, Ministry of Foreign Affairs website includes an article that declares that missionary Peter "Hammond should expect to be bombed when he comes to Sudan ... he should expect to be shot on sight"!

Dr. Peter Hammond is a missionary who has pioneered evangelistic outreaches in the war zones of Mozambique, Angola and Sudan. Often travelling by off road motorbike, Peter has travelled hundreds of thousands of miles to deliver Bibles to persecuted Christians in Africa and Eastern Europe. In the course of his missionary activities Peter has been ambushed, come under aerial and artillery bombardments, been stabbed, shot at, beaten by mobs, arrested and imprisoned. On some mission trips he has flown far behind enemy lines to the beleaguered Nuba Mountains in Central Sudan with tonnes of Bibles, books and relief aid. He has then walked throughout the war devastated Nuba Mountains showing the Jesus film in Arabic, proclaiming the Gospel, training pastors and evading enemy patrols.

Rev. Peter Hammond is the Founder and Director of Frontline Fellowship, the Founder and Chairman of Africa Christian Action, the Director of the Christian Action Network and the Chairman of The Reformation Society. He is the author of The Greatest Century of Missions, Faith Under Fire in Sudan, Holocaust in Rwanda, the Great Commission Manual, Faith in Action, Putting Feet to Your Faith, In the Killing Fields of Mozambique, Biblical Principels for Africa, the Discipleship Handbook, Slavery, Terrorism and Islam - the Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat and The Greatest Century of Reformation and the Power of Prayer Handbook. In addition he has co-authored or contributed to: Fight for Life, Make a Difference, The Pink Agenda and South Africa - Renaissance or Reformation?, Character Assassins - dealing with Ecclesiastical Tyrants and Terrorists and Reforming Our Families. He is the Editor of both Frontline Fellowship News and Christian Action.

For over 26 years, Peter has been dedicated to assisting persecuted Christians and to working for Reformation and revival in Africa. Peter has developed the Biblical Worldview Seminar and Great Commission Course to mobilise Churches to comprehensively apply the Lordship of Christ to all areas of life and to fulfill the Great Commission.

Peter was born in Cape Town (in 1960) and brought up in Bulawayo (in what was then war torn Rhodesia - now Zimbabwe). He was converted to Christ in 1977, worked in Scripture Union and Hospital Christian Fellowship, served in the South African Defence Force and studied at Baptist Theological College, Cape Town. He also earned a Doctorate in Missiology and has an honourary Doctorate of Divinity. Peter is married to Lenora (whose missionary parents Rev. Bill and Harriett Bathman, have pioneered missionary work into Eastern Europe for over 55 years). Peter and Lenora have been blessed with four children: Andrea, Daniela, Christopher and Calvin, whom they homeschool.

Summer In the City

jmayo wrote: »

That can be the major difference between your Kosovan muslims and those destined for Europe from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Middle East, North Africa.


And those are the ones now turning up in Europe.

So what you're really saying is that it's not Muslims that are the problem it's people from these countries or continents?

What about the Jordanians or Lebanese who are very tolerant towards other people's religions, customs and way of life even in their own countries?