Is Islam right for Ireland?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And anyone who believes such things should be made to feel unwelcome.

So that actually makes you an immigration restrictionist except you want some kind of quiz on beliefs as people immigrate?

Kivaro

Wibbs wrote: »

Behold the modern "liberal" mind and worldview in all its ironies and cognitive dissonance, with the usual side order of self hatred and imagined oppression.

We could use that quote in so many discussions on this forum.

But it's that vocal (loud) view, which is bellowed by a similarly minded media conglomerate in this country, that will push people who normally reside in a centrist political position towards a right or far-right alternative. Liberals want to sacrifice Ireland in the name of open migration; reality and the experiences of other countries tells us that this is a very bad idea.

Captain Obvious

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm not your guy, buddy.

I'm not your buddy, pal

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

He literally went to the trouble of listing the sequence replies that got to your illogical answer.

He didn't go back far enough.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It was interesting that you only named catholic countries by the way.

I'd say Catholicism is more regressive than Protestantism. I don't know any Protestant majority countries other than the US.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

So that actually makes you an immigration restrictionist except you want some kind of quiz on beliefs as people immigrate?

If i thought such a quiz would be effective I'd support it.

donegaLroad

Deleted User wrote: »

Okay. I'll bite. You see, I'm sick to death of our society reacting to problems rather that preparing for them to arrive. We had warnings of the economic crash years before it happened, and nothing was done about it. We had warnings about the state of the health service, and nothing was done about it. We had warnings about the weaknesses of the welfare state and nothing was done about it. In each case, we waited... until it became a problem and then applied ourselves to them. And our track record of dealing with problems after they occur is abysmal.

The problems with Islam in Europe are clear, and we've had warnings about the conflict between Islamic culture and western culture long before the immigration issue arose. We have seen the economic power of Europe shrink drastically within the last twenty years along with the rise of social instability within our own culture, and we have basically waited until it became a problem before even looking for solutions. Half the time we/they're not even looking for solutions and simply seeking someone to blame. Even the drop in our population rate across Europe isn't a concern when everywhere else outside of the West is seeing a massive growth in population.

I am tired of Europe reacting to problems after they become sizable issues. The immigration issue is still a relatively small one. There is friction between European culture and Islamic culture but it's manageable. For now. Once we allow in another couple of million, that will change.

And there will be another couple of million coming to Europe. There will be a lot more than a few million coming to Europe, because the M.East continues to destabilize with or without western influence. Africa isn't in a good spot either, with rising birth rates, and economic shortages across the board. We're also going to see immigration rising from Asia, as China has removed the one child policy, and no longer prevents it's citizens from leaving, as they once did. Other Asian countries are following suit since they can't manage their existing populations.

So... why should we wait for it all to go down the toilet? We can implement small steps to ensure that our culture, values, and system of governance remains stable in the face of rising immigration of peoples who do not like our culture, values or system of governance.

I don't understand how people don't see this. The immigrants coming into Europe are not coming here because they love western culture and want to embrace the freedoms available. They're coming here because their own countries have imploded. There is little to no belief that their system, culture or values aren't better than ours. In fact, most muslims cling to the belief that their systems are better than everywhere else, simply because they will it to be so. It doesn't matter that in every muslim country there are massive levels of corruption, or inequalities. They still believe that an Islamic rule is best for them, and they will seek to change our culture and laws to suit their ideal way of life.

We can deal with the problems now while they are manageable or we can wait until they're huge issues. We can deal with them now by managing the limited immigrant population that we currently have and determining the best way to solve the issues of integration. Multiculturalism has consistently failed. It's time to deal with these problems now.

Or would you rather that your children have to deal with them? Because in all honesty, I suspect the next generation will be cursing us far more than any other generation has.

I completely agree here Klaz.

You mentioned the expanding birth rate in some African countries. One of the only ways that this can be solved is through the empowerment of women.

Unfortunately, not all religions would be in favour of the empowerment of women, the birth rate therefore will increase exponentially.

Omackeral

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I'm not your buddy, pal

I’m not your pal, friend.

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

I completely agree here Klaz.

You mentioned the expanding birth rate in some African countries. One of the only ways that this can be solved is through the empowerment of women.

Unfortunately, not all religions would be in favour of the empowerment of women, the birth rate therefore will increase exponentially.

Only if you assume that women are not interested in having many children themselves. My aunt had 13 children, and she's not the type to be forced into anything. A devout catholic she believed that it was her duty to do this.

It's the same with many other countries even without the religious angle. In China, children equal the perception of wealth. Having more children is a sign that you're prosperous, and with the removal of the one child policy people are having 2-3 kids more than they would normally have done, regardless of whether they're financially capable of supporting them. That's not entirely because men want more kids. The women do too.

It's too simple to dismiss the influence of women even in more primitive or poorer societies. In many cases, while they don't hold official power, they have stronger influence within the community than most of the men. There's also the degree that indoctrination of any type (social, religious, etc) affects women to believe that having more children equals something special.

Demosthenes

Islam is not right for Ireland.
Christianity is not right for Ireland.
Judaism is not right for Ireland.
I could continue.

If you have a system of 'beliefs' that is based on anything other than facts or the search for facts and you feel that should share these 'beliefs' with others, then you are not right for Ireland. Atheism included.

Blind faith is for the lazy class of human who cannot be bothered to question existence, or those who are too feeble minded to accept their own existential irrelevance in the vast universe of reality.

JohnMc1

Deleted User wrote: »

Okay. I'll bite. You see, I'm sick to death of our society reacting to problems rather that preparing for them to arrive. We had warnings of the economic crash years before it happened, and nothing was done about it. We had warnings about the state of the health service, and nothing was done about it. We had warnings about the weaknesses of the welfare state and nothing was done about it. In each case, we waited... until it became a problem and then applied ourselves to them. And our track record of dealing with problems after they occur is abysmal.

The problems with Islam in Europe are clear, and we've had warnings about the conflict between Islamic culture and western culture long before the immigration issue arose. We have seen the economic power of Europe shrink drastically within the last twenty years along with the rise of social instability within our own culture, and we have basically waited until it became a problem before even looking for solutions. Half the time we/they're not even looking for solutions and simply seeking someone to blame. Even the drop in our population rate across Europe isn't a concern when everywhere else outside of the West is seeing a massive growth in population.

I am tired of Europe reacting to problems after they become sizable issues. The immigration issue is still a relatively small one. There is friction between European culture and Islamic culture but it's manageable. For now. Once we allow in another couple of million, that will change.

And there will be another couple of million coming to Europe. There will be a lot more than a few million coming to Europe, because the M.East continues to destabilize with or without western influence. Africa isn't in a good spot either, with rising birth rates, and economic shortages across the board. We're also going to see immigration rising from Asia, as China has removed the one child policy, and no longer prevents it's citizens from leaving, as they once did. Other Asian countries are following suit since they can't manage their existing populations.

So... why should we wait for it all to go down the toilet? We can implement small steps to ensure that our culture, values, and system of governance remains stable in the face of rising immigration of peoples who do not like our culture, values or system of governance.

I don't understand how people don't see this. The immigrants coming into Europe are not coming here because they love western culture and want to embrace the freedoms available. They're coming here because their own countries have imploded. There is little to no belief that their system, culture or values aren't better than ours. In fact, most muslims cling to the belief that their systems are better than everywhere else, simply because they will it to be so. It doesn't matter that in every muslim country there are massive levels of corruption, or inequalities. They still believe that an Islamic rule is best for them, and they will seek to change our culture and laws to suit their ideal way of life.

We can deal with the problems now while they are manageable or we can wait until they're huge issues. We can deal with them now by managing the limited immigrant population that we currently have and determining the best way to solve the issues of integration. Multiculturalism has consistently failed. It's time to deal with these problems now.

Or would you rather that your children have to deal with them? Because in all honesty, I suspect the next generation will be cursing us far more than any other generation has.

Great post klaz. The only thing I disagree with is that in certain Countries like Germany and Sweden [and Britain to a certain degree]is already at the unmanageable range. It will take more than just protests and voting in Nationalist, anti-Immigration parties the longer Merkel and co keeping saying there is a problem while carrying on as usual.

Mrhuth

Summer In the City wrote: »

I live in the Middle East FFS. I lived in Sweden previous to here. I know what you're getting at and I don't think you're racist but I think you have a very small understanding of what Islam is. I know there is a problem in certain communities but what you think you know of a religion that has 1.8 billion subscribers is small minded and not representative of Islam as a whole.

Oh yes, there's always someone. Let me guess, you live in Syria or Saudi Arabia?

JohnMc1

Demosthenes wrote: »

Islam is not right for Ireland.
Christianity is not right for Ireland.
Judaism is not right for Ireland.
I could continue.

If you have a system of 'beliefs' that is based on anything other than facts or the search for facts and you feel that should share these 'beliefs' with others, then you are not right for Ireland. Atheism included.

Blind faith is for the lazy class of human who cannot be bothered to question existence, or those who are too feeble minded to accept their own existential irrelevance in the vast universe of reality.

Something always comes along to fill the void. The Irish were determined to rid the land of Christianity and now we have Islam looking to fill the void as they are the fast growing religion here and will soon be the #2 religion in Ireland and will eventually overtake us as the #1 religion if Varadkar's 2040 plan of increasing the population by 1 million with people from Africa and the Middle East goes through.

Secularism much like Multiculturalism is a Left Wing pipedream.

Hellrazer

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Yes, on legal matters we are getting better. FG have been very good in that regard. But even though you can get married you still have to live with knowing 40% of the people you meet think you are lesser.

Well if that's the way youre going to argue your point you could say that if 60% of the population think youre great.

We haven't really though. They still do it all the time.

No they don't.I still haven't seen any examples of where catholic ethos has over ruled the ethos of the company/school or hospital other than the example I showed earlier.
The catholic church absolutely do not have the power in this country that they once had. And all the better for it.

The blasphemy laws are a constitutional requirement.

So is gay marriage as it was voted in by referendum and the same with divorce.

Mrhuth

Gay are executed in Iran.
Thiefs get their hands chopped off and robbers get beheaded and hanged from cranes in the town square. What the **** do you know about Islam?

Odhinn

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Something always comes along to fill the void. The Irish were determined to rid the land of Christianity and now we have Islam looking to fill the void as they are the fast growing religion here and will soon be the #2 religion in Ireland and will eventually overtake us as the #1 religion if Varadkar's 2040 plan of increasing the population by 1 million with people from Africa and the Middle East goes through.

Secularism much like Multiculturalism is a Left Wing pipedream.

.....you have some source for this?

JohnMc1

Odhinn wrote: »

.....you have some source for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLLkVWCIW9U

https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/national-planning-framework-%E2%80%94-ireland-2040-%E2%80%94-the-plan-to-increase-irelands-population-by-1-million.25066/

Odhinn

JohnMc1 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLLkVWCIW9U

https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/national-planning-framework-%E2%80%94-ireland-2040-%E2%80%94-the-plan-to-increase-irelands-population-by-1-million.25066/

You're stretching - so much so that if you're a yoga practioner I'd say you were doing well.

Auguste Comte

JohnMc1 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLLkVWCIW9U

https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/national-planning-framework-%E2%80%94-ireland-2040-%E2%80%94-the-plan-to-increase-irelands-population-by-1-million.25066/

So you made up the Africa and Middle East bit to pad out you agenda, or did I miss something?

JohnMc1

Auguste Comte wrote: »

So you made up the Africa and Middle East bit to pad out you agenda, or did I miss something?

Did you even read the article in the second link? I have a feeling you didn't. They mentioned Africa's population increase that the EU can take advantage of [aka. Import them]

I can tell who's already got their flights out of Ireland already booked. The willful ignorance is a clear give away.

Auguste Comte

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Did you even read the article in the second link? I have a feeling you didn't. They mentioned Africa's population increase that the EU can take advantage of [aka. Import them]

I can tell who's already got their flights out of Ireland already booked. The willful ignorance is a clear give away.

Would you be a good chap and quote the passage you are referring to?

JohnMc1

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Would you be a good chap and quote the passage you are referring to?

Brian Hayes MEP says that by 2050 the population of Nigeria could be over 400 million people and Europe needs to turn that to our advantage:
http://archive.is/6OhVd

Was that so hard? Does reading hurt?

Auguste Comte

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Was that so hard? Does reading hurt?

Good chap. Nowhere does it say that there is a plan to "import" a million people from Africa.

JohnMc1

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Good chap. Nowhere does it say that there is a plan to "import" a million people from Africa.

What do you think take advantage means?

Auguste Comte

JohnMc1 wrote: »

What do you think take advantage means?

But you didn't post a direct quote instead a selective edit to suit your agenda.

dav3

JohnMc1 wrote: »

What do you think take advantage means?

Hold on, hold on, whoa there. Are you actually being serious? I thought that was just a joke post.

You honestly believe there is a plan to important 1 million Africans into Ireland by 2040?

Holy sweet suffering jesus, the right are in a worse state than I thought.

JohnMc1

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Great post klaz. The only thing I disagree with is that in certain Countries like Germany and Sweden [and Britain to a certain degree]is already at the unmanageable range. It will take more than just protests and voting in Nationalist, anti-Immigration parties the longer Merkel and co keeping saying there is a problem while carrying on as usual.

I disagree. The trouble is coming from particular age groups, and marital status. We're not seeing much in the way of trouble from married men in their middle ages, but rather it's the young that are causing trouble. We need to do better research to determine the common factors rather burying our heads. Find out the ages, status, subcultures, etc that are causing trouble, and then determine how to limit their influence in our societies.

Simply blaming all muslims is retarded. Various groups of Muslims have lived in Europe for centuries without any trouble. So we should be finding out what has changed. The demographic compositions.. etc.

And no, before someone jumps in to talk about Western influence in M.East, the trouble we have with Islam is cultural/social, not terrorism. That's a different issue entirely.

JohnMc1

Auguste Comte wrote: »

But you didn't post a direct quote instead a selective edit to suit your agenda.

The nerve of me thinking people can actually read on the internet.:rolleyes:

JohnMc1

dav3 wrote: »

Hold on, hold on, whoa there. Are you actually being serious? I thought that was just a joke post.

You honestly believe there is a plan to important 1 million Africans into Ireland by 2040?

Holy sweet suffering jesus, the right are in a worse state than I thought.

And just where do you think the 1 million will come from?

The_Kew_Tour

Odhinn wrote: »

.....you have some source for this?

Where else are they going come from? The Irish Birth rate amount Irish continue to fall.

Eastern Europe will only do so many here. Where is this 1Million then coming from?

They be coming from all over

Mrhuth

Mrhuth wrote: »

Gay are executed in Iran.
Thiefs get their hands chopped off and robbers get beheaded and hanged from cranes in the town square. What the **** do you know about Islam?

With respect, what the **** do you know about Iran? I swear. Read a book or watch a tv show and you think you understand everything. Try visiting the country or getting to know some Iranians before judging them so comprehensively.

Western culture is pretty good, but it's good because of what has changed within the last 40-50 years. That's it. Many practices in the West were barbaric not very long ago. Get off your pedestal.

Kivaro

Brian Hayes MEP says that by 2050 the population of Nigeria could be over 400 million people and Europe needs to turn that to our advantage:
http://archive.is/6OhVd

If this is the mindset of our politicians, then it is very disturbing.
But it does fall in line with the strategy of the liberal political elite to "undermine the national homogeneity" of the European member states. Too many white folk in Ireland it appears.

The_Kew_Tour

Just over 20,000 Children were Born in Nigeria alone on New Years day. Follow few Nigerian lads on Twitter and they are very concerned for short term future of the country

Wibbs

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Ireland has an advantage in it's size. It's a lot harder to be openly bigoted in such a small country.

Hahahahahah.... oh wait, you're actually serious. Maybe have an old sit down with some Black folks living here and get back to me. Travellers aren't exactly met with open arms.

Kivaro wrote: »

If this is the mindset of our politicians, then it is very disturbing.
But it does fall in line with the strategy of the liberal political elite to "undermine the national homogeneity" of the European member states. Too many white folk in Ireland it appears.

Always follow the Money. And the Money wants more cheap workers and more consumers to sustain said money. It's why the Money pushes for "open borders". The irony being that so do the Left. Problem being you can't have both open borders and a functioning welfare system we've become used to in Europe. It;s not sustainable. The Left don't see that and the Money wants that. Lower the social safety nets and workers become ever cheaper.

Which is fine if they've jobs to go to. European jobs have become increasingly specialised. Labouring and factory jobs have decreased. So how do you get millions of people educated to levels they'll need to get work in Europe? That's before we consider what many are predicting; more and more automation in the workplace and not just the physical.

conorhal

Deleted User wrote: »

I disagree. The trouble is coming from particular age groups, and marital status. We're not seeing much in the way of trouble from married men in their middle ages, but rather it's the young that are causing trouble. We need to do better research to determine the common factors rather burying our heads. Find out the ages, status, subcultures, etc that are causing trouble, and then determine how to limit their influence in our societies.

Simply blaming all muslims is retarded. Various groups of Muslims have lived in Europe for centuries without any trouble. So we should be finding out what has changed. The demographic compositions.. etc.

And no, before someone jumps in to talk about Western influence in M.East, the trouble we have with Islam is cultural/social, not terrorism. That's a different issue entirely.

We've actually had centuries of conflict in Europe with Islam, this latest wave if Islamist imperialism is nothing new and the threats it poses are nothing new to Europe either.

Apart from demographics, you've forgotten to also talk about numbers. Most of the problems are now coming from massive self sustaining communities that have self segregated.
Numbers matter, just look at that former Christian (majority Christian in even my Grandfathers time) country of Lebanon for a lesson in mass islamic migration and it's effects.

dav3

JohnMc1 wrote: »

And just where do you think the 1 million will come from?

Natural increase for all regions. For Dublin and the Mid-East, they'll also get an increase from internal migration.

JohnMc1

Deleted User wrote: »

I disagree. The trouble is coming from particular age groups, and marital status. We're not seeing much in the way of trouble from married men in their middle ages, but rather it's the young that are causing trouble. We need to do better research to determine the common factors rather burying our heads. Find out the ages, status, subcultures, etc that are causing trouble, and then determine how to limit their influence in our societies.

Simply blaming all muslims is retarded. Various groups of Muslims have lived in Europe for centuries without any trouble. So we should be finding out what has changed. The demographic compositions.. etc.

And no, before someone jumps in to talk about Western influence in M.East, the trouble we have with Islam is cultural/social, not terrorism. That's a different issue entirely.

Agreed. The second [and later] generations of Muslims end up more extreme than the previous generations. Hell the Middle East was alot different in the 70s and 80s. Women weren't running around in burqas and hijabs. The Men dressed in clothes you would see on Men in the West [aka. Dress shirts, dress pants,etc] What changed them to be so extreme?
This needs to be addressed whether its an internal issues [aka one Muslim saying they're not "Muslim enough" ] or external issues. Do we go the China route and limit how many children they can have?

SeantheMan

SeantheMan wrote: »

I don't agree with any religion, but people should be allowed to practice whatever faith they want.
I don't think Islam is right for Ireland, but I don't think Christianity or Hinduism is either.
But I have no problem with people practicing them if it makes them happy and they aren't committing any crimes.

There was a certain guy who came to power who didn't think Judaism was right for his country or other countries.
He managed to swing a few people around to his thinking and well, that worked out well for everyone.

As for the video of the guys blaring noise in a van down the street, I personally would vote for a law where public promotion or advertising of religion is banned. I don't need to be harassed or made aware of people's views or beliefs or be asked to convert. It would negate the above problem...probably open a few more though.

Can we also have a ban on promotion of the all-pervasive "Buy, buy, buy" consumerist cult, or is some brainwashing more acceptable than others?

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Can we also have a ban on promotion of the all-pervasive "Buy, buy, buy" consumerist cult,

I'd be right behind that F. Dunno how one would even begin to implement it mind you. The dopamine hit from consumerist buying is strong.

JohnMc1

Kivaro wrote: »

Too many white folk in Ireland it appears.

This is why they are determined to push through with abortion in a few weeks. They're hoping Irish women will start aborting their babies and thus bringing down the number of Irish born so they can justify this plan by claiming we need to bring them in. Irish reproduction numbers are still at a healthy level so they really can't justify this plan at the moment.

masculinist

JohnMc1 wrote: »

This is why they are determined to push through with abortion in a few weeks. They're hoping Irish women will start aborting their babies and thus bringing down the number of Irish born so they can justify this plan by claiming we need to bring them in. Irish reproduction numbers are still at a healthy level so they really can't justify this plan at the moment.

They love population replacement but oddly none from any culture which has connections to renaissance liberal enlightenment values . Any time I point out that the Mediterranean has monstrous unemployment levels with youth unemployment reaching 60% and hence theres no need to import workers (realistically long term dole recipients who speak no European languages) from outside the EU the sjws lose their minds.
Because we joined the EU to get closer to European first world countries for cultural and economic reasons and we should prioritize giving jobs to other Europeans who are closer to us in terms of culture and language.
Nobody joined the EU for the purpose of becoming closer to Afghanistan, Pakistan and sub saharan Africa. Theres zero benefit for us in that. Whats the point of joining a club if there are no membership benefits ? Its getting to the point where theres nothing in it for us . We shall see what sort of free trade agreement the UK gets out of Brexit. Their Erasmus and European Space agency agreements and so on will continue just under different names but they will have most of their sovereignty back

Captain Obvious

JohnMc1 wrote: »

This is why they are determined to push through with abortion in a few weeks. They're hoping Irish women will start aborting their babies and thus bringing down the number of Irish born so they can justify this plan by claiming we need to bring them in. Irish reproduction numbers are still at a healthy level so they really can't justify this plan at the moment.

Is this satire?

Grayson

conorhal wrote: »

We've actually had centuries of conflict in Europe with Islam, this latest wave if Islamist imperialism is nothing new and the threats it poses are nothing new to Europe either.

Apart from demographics, you've forgotten to also talk about numbers. Most of the problems are now coming from massive self sustaining communities that have self segregated.
Numbers matter, just look at that former Christian (majority Christian in even my Grandfathers time) country of Lebanon for a lesson in mass islamic migration and it's effects.

We had centuries of conflict with ourselves. Millions of christians were killed/persecuted. It wasn't muslims that created the penal laws.

Snake Plisken

JohnMc1 wrote: »

This is why they are determined to push through with abortion in a few weeks. They're hoping Irish women will start aborting their babies and thus bringing down the number of Irish born so they can justify this plan by claiming we need to bring them in. Irish reproduction numbers are still at a healthy level so they really can't justify this plan at the moment.

Makes sense why this guy is all for Repealing the 8th
https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/967501385184014336?s=21

Grayson

JohnMc1 wrote: »

This is why they are determined to push through with abortion in a few weeks. They're hoping Irish women will start aborting their babies and thus bringing down the number of Irish born so they can justify this plan by claiming we need to bring them in. Irish reproduction numbers are still at a healthy level so they really can't justify this plan at the moment.

You are absolutely crazy. Seriously, that's proper tinfoil hat type stuff.

JohnMc1

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Is this satire?

Are you trolling? Surely you've heard the "They'll pay our pensions.",etc line a few times during this whole ordeal.

Then again if you're a Leftist its just willful ignorance on your part.

masculinist

Grayson wrote: »

We had centuries of conflict with ourselves. Millions of christians were killed/persecuted. It wasn't muslims that created the penal laws.

No . The British Created the penal laws. Neither penal laws nor sharia law ( a Muslim creation which oppresses Christians across the globe right now) belongs in Ireland. Looking for a Muslim country where Christians arent subject to Islamic style penal laws and cultural oppression is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Captain Obvious

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Are you trolling? Surely you've heard the "They'll pay our pensions.",etc line a few times during this whole ordeal.

Then again if you're a Leftist its just willful ignorance on your part.

Just so I'm clear here. You think the left is pushing through the repeal referendum in order to get more Irish people to abort children so that they can import more people from Africa? For what purpose?

Grayson

masculinist wrote: »

No . The British Created the penal laws. Neither penal laws nor sharia law ( a Muslim creation which oppresses Christians across the globe right now) belongs in Ireland. Looking for a Muslim country where Christians arent subject to Islamic style penal laws and cultural oppression is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Yeah. It was a christian group that persecuted a christian group. And it lasted centuries.

For some reason when islamaphobes look at European history they ignore every single conflict that didn't involve Muslims and turn a millennium into Muslims Vs Christians instead of looking at the fact that everyone fought everyone else.

Every single christian nation fought everyone that bordered them. It didn't matter what religion they were. And the same goes for Muslims. And if you leave Europe you see it was the same all over the world.

Auguste Comte

Grayson wrote: »

You are absolutely crazy. Seriously, that's proper tinfoil hat type stuff.

On one side there are the isis loons and on the other.......

masculinist

Grayson wrote: »

Yeah. It was a christian group that persecuted a christian group. And it lasted centuries.
.

It was about greedy imperialism and nothing more. Religion was a smokescreen. In the beginning England was Catholic until Henry the 8th. Then religion was used as an excuse to confiscate lands and engage in carpetbagging.

You're here to do a hatchet job on Christians as though it somehow justifies imposing Islamofascism . Thats a lunatic idea . I am not a Christian. I reject all forms of religious control. You reject Christianity so you should also reject Islam or else youre a monumental hypocrite of lunatic proportions.

I Am The Law

If everyone could pay their taxes, pay for car insurance and not force their religious views on others, that would be great.

Grayson

masculinist wrote: »

It was about greedy imperialism and nothing more. Religion was a smokescreen. In the beginning England was Catholic until Henry the 8th. Then religion was used as an excuse to confiscate lands and engage in carpetbagging.

You're here to do a hatchet job on Christians as though it somehow justifies imposing Islamofascism . Thats a lunatic idea . I am not a Christian. I reject all forms of religious control. You reject Christianity so you should also reject Islam or else youre a monumental hypocrite of lunatic proportions.

I'm not doing a hatchet job on Christianity. I specifically said every single religion. The fact that you read that into what I said says more about you than me.
And yes it was anti catholic. to deny that religion played any part in the reformation and all the wars that resulted is willful blindness. Sure politics played a part as certain kingdoms tried to use religion as a reason to gain an advantage but religion was involved. That was the point of the reformation.

You need to spend some time reading up on all of this.