Is Islam right for Ireland?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah bit longer goggling this time.
The point of the thread is about Islam in Ireland. The majority of posters, you included, seem to think that Islam in Ireland is going to cause some massive changes, that we will all be subjected to sharia law & forbidden from eating rashers.
I am well aware of the history of Kosovo thanks & just because it doesn't fit your agenda doesn't make it any less Muslim.
It's a majority Muslim country.

Ok so what % is ok? 49% ? What point is enough for you?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok so what % is ok? 49% ? What point is enough for you?

I don't even know what this means?

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

No, they don't fit your idea of what a Muslim country is.
This country is over 96% Muslim. There are none of the issues you seem to think are going to befall Ireland in the future.
So as you can see, it's not the religion that is the problem.

So how many muslim migrants from Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Eritrea has Kosova got ?

How many of current population of Kosova grew up in what was Serbia/Serbia and Montenegro or for that matter in what was Yugoslavia under Tito or indeed under Milosevic ?
Kosova has only iexisted for 10 odd years and before that was a region within ostensibly a Christian or communist state.

Firing out Kosova as an example of a muslim state is akin to firing out East Timor as an example of a Far Eastern state.

Also the people in Kosova have been under European influence and norms for a lot longer than any of immigrants that have come to Europe in the past and the ones that you and others want to foist upon Ireland.

And you can't use Albania either because it has been under a state enforced atheism for most of the last 100 years.

And you keep failing to acknowledge fact that authorities have been fighting fundamentalism over the 10 years of the state's existence as highlighted by points above.

Summer In the City

jmayo wrote: »

So how many muslim migrants from Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Eritrea has Kosova got ?
...

What point are you trying to make here exactly? You reckon Kosovo, Albania, UAE are not Muslim countries because some were communist, some are cosmopolitan... I have no idea what you're actually trying to say.

It is a Muslim majority country. Just because it doesn't fit what you perceive a Muslim country to be, doesn't matter.

Life is perfectly 'western' here, if that's how you like it described.
People on this thread are complaining about Muslims coming into Ireland & changing it. I am merely proving that its not Islam.
You can't say 'Muslims do this & that because Islam is this & the other' & when it is shown that there are plenty of Muslims who don't do those things, turn around & say ' oh well not those Muslims in those Muslim countries! I mean the other ones....'

So, if you have a problem with certain people I would suggest you look beyond their religion because it's clearly NOT the religion.

Jokes

The only people I feel for are the women and children , if it helps to get them a better life im glad to have them here but their men folk are complete barbarians as in the rape culture towards their own children i know they're poor but come on ! I would honestly love to see a day where these barbaric are put down I am sick of readiing about the rapes and tortures and stealing of children amd nothing can be done Eg like kabul Afghanistan , pakistan india they dont value life like we do

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Life is perfectly 'western' here, if that's how you like it described. People on this thread are complaining about Muslims coming into Ireland & changing it. I am merely proving that its not Islam.
You can't say 'Muslims do this & that because Islam is this & the other' & when it is shown that there are plenty of Muslims who don't do those things, turn around & say ' oh well not those Muslims in those Muslim countries! I mean the other ones....'

So, if you have a problem with certain people I would suggest you look beyond their religion because it's clearly NOT the religion.

I must admit I find it amusing. If posters comment about Muslims, we are told that not all Muslims are the same. I know that Islam isn't even a single faith, and the degree in which people follow Islam is mostly a personal choice unless they're within a very traditional/enclosed Islam community. The culture and behavior of Muslims differs very much depending not only about which country you're talking about, but also whether you're talking about someone from the city vs the countryside, or depending on their educational background, etc.

I would agree that Islam, in itself, is not the problem. There have been Muslims living within Western society already for hundreds of years without any problems. The problem depends on the degree to which they apply the "rules" of Islamic philosophy or Islamic law to their lives, and by extension to others outside their faith.

And that's the point of these kinds of discussions. How are the rules on behavior for Islamic followers being applied to people not of the religion? In countries like France, we are seeing cases (considering how much of a minority they are) of pushing Islamic culture on to non-Islamic followers, and the taking over of areas with the view that Islamic traditions should be followed within those areas. Those traditions associated with women's behavior and attire.

I earlier said I found it amusing being told that all Muslims are not the same. The reason I find it amusing is because they are correct. Not all muslims are the same... because by that same very logic, it suggests that not all muslims are going to fit within own their views of Muslims and Islam. It's the reason that certain nations/nationalities are given when talking about Islam, as if that makes them 'better', but even within a single country, we're going to have progressive muslims vs traditional muslims, extemist muslims vs the moderates, etc. etc etc. Not all Muslims are the same, and we have no way of knowing their beliefs until they express them.

I'm not worried about Islam taking over. It's not going to happen in my lifetime, if it happens at all, which I'm skeptical of. I don't talk about terrorism because I don't associate Terrorism with Islamic people or Islamic culture. However, I am concerned about allowing Islamic cultural laws into our legal system as a "gesture" of goodwill and creating a precedence for further additions. I am more concerned with how Muslims coming into Europe are behaving, and whether they feel their own customs/traditions/laws are more important than the traditions/laws of the host country.

I'd rather that Ireland didn't experience the same social/cultural problems as France, and while I've seen claims that would never happen, I haven't seen anything to suggest that it couldn't happen here. Apart from claims, I haven't even heard of any suggestion of how to prevent it from happening here. Instead, discussions are shut down pretty quickly with accusations of bigotry, or other 'labels'. Fact is: I don't want my nieces having to deal with that 'extreme' Islamic culture unless they choose to go traveling to a foreign country.

Never thought I'd be imagining France when I said that.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Deleted User wrote: »

The really gas thing is that even if we don't consider all muslims to be the same and say this in out in some of our posts, many of us will still be accused of assuming all muslims are the same. It's a standard response to shut down discussion.

For every right winged poster with a badly researched extreme viewpoint, there is a extreme liberal wannabe with equally poor knowledge.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm curious... Do you consider me to be of the Anti-Muslim Brigade?

Well, you made me work and go back to check your posts in this thread

You seem to have genuine and understandable problems with Sharia Law and Muslim fundamentalism - so do I. You point out in Post 49 that there are many different types of Muslims too, so you don't seem to be someone who automatically assumes all Muslims are fundamentalist terrorists.

So I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt!

Summer In the City

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Anyone want answer the above?

Anyone at all?

There's lots of ways of preventing some of the problems that happened in these countries. Not creating ghettos is the main one.

What about the good that has been brought to these countries which people love to ignore.

Swedens greatest footballer - Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Frances greatest footballer - Zinedine Zidane

The best footballer in England this year is Egyptian
Should Mohamed Salah be denied entry to Britain? What makes him a hero but his neighbour a risk?

masculinist

Summer In the City wrote: »

What about the good that has been brought to these countries which people love to ignore.

Swedens greatest footballer - Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Frances greatest footballer - Zinedine Zidane

The best footballer in England this year is Egyptian
Should Mohamed Salah be denied entry to Britain? What makes him a hero but his neighbour a risk?

what about all those doctors and lawyers they were promised ?

Summer In the City

masculinist wrote: »

what about all those doctors and lawyers they were promised ?

What about the lovely food they brought?

Pepefrogok

Summer In the City wrote: »

What about the lovely food they brought?

I suppose that's a fair trade! Next attack like the Manchester arena I'll just suppress my shock and anger with a nice kebab! All the groomed children could get compo in fast food vouchers! Raped and blown up children is shurly a price worth paying for diverse food! Just to be clear though as I wouldn't want to offend, is eating their food cultural appropriation?

Cordell

We have the recipe now...
https://youtu.be/sg-4ATrE8n0?t=83

Summer In the City

Pepefrogok wrote: »

I suppose that's a fair trade! Next attack like the Manchester arena I'll just suppress my shock and anger with a nice kebab! All the groomed children could get compo in fast food vouchers! Raped and blown up children is shurly a price worth paying for diverse food! Just to be clear though as I wouldn't want to offend, is eating their food cultural appropriation?

Yeah, like the Brits drinking Guinness. When the paddy's were blowing up Manchester and raping their kids in boys homes they sat back with a nice pint of plain. We all get on great now so maybe you're on to something for the first time in your life.

murphthesmurf

To decide whether it is right for Ireland we should look at other places where Islam has made home.
Sweden for example has areas with a very high number of Muslim migrants. These areas are no go areas for the police, if they are chasing a car and it enters certain areas they do not persue it. Sweden is also now the rape capital of Europe. Muslim gangs often go to music concerts specifically to sexually assault young women. They pick out a yoing girl and surround her so as to prevent anyone such as security intervening while they take it in turns to assault her. Mumford and Sons amongst others refuse to play at music concerts in Sweden until the problem is sorted. So its not worked out too well there.

Merkel has welcomed Islam with open arms. New yrs eve 2015 a few thousand of the new arrivals celebrated getting a new home by sexually assaulting women on new yrs eve around train stations. Germanys rape levels have increased considerably, a German feminist group held a protest march to demand the government do something as they no longer feel safe walking the streets. They were attacked during the march by anti-facists which is interesting, get raped quietly appears to be the message there.

The UK, which I have had a lot of first hand experience of as i was born there and lived most of my life there. Rotherham is an obvious example. Thousands of young girls raped and abused, given drugs and alcohol while as many as 50 men queued up to have sex with them. Theirs and their families lives threatened if they spoke a word to anyone. One young girls was branded with an 'M' on her bottom to signify that she is the property of Muslims. Girls as young as 11. This is not exclusive to Rotherham, Oxford had similar, Luton, Telford is the most recent to be exposed. Some horrific stories. This has been going on for a long time in almost every town/city with a high Muslim population in the UK. It was common knowledge for me and everyone I know for a long time. Tens of thousands of young vulnerable girls. This wasn't done by a small minority of Muslims. There would be queues of men waiting to take turns on these girls, as many as 50 at a time. There will be many more of these cases being discovered for other towns and cities I would bet my life on it.
On a Friday or Sat night I would go out to a nightclub in Birmingham. In that nightclub would be English, Jamaicans, Sikh, Hindu etc etc. We would mix, some of my friends were sikh, some black. The only people missing from the nightclub would be Muslims, with the exception of the odd Kosovan. The Muslims would all be driving around outside waiting for the girls to come out. Waiting to target the girls who had too much to drink or strayed away from their friends. This is something I would see week in week out. I lived outside of Birmingham around the black country. An area near me was Tipton, an area with quite a few jihadi fighters. They were known as the Tipton Taliban.
There are areas that we do not go, Smethwick, Small Heath, Handsworth.

Then there is France, things haven't been going well here either.
The Italians have had thousands of Migrants arriving on their shores, they recently voted for an anti immigration party.
I've left out all the obvious terror attacks that we all know about, like the children at the music concert in Manchester.

I'm not a racist, although I probably sound like one. To understand what it is really like living with a high population of Islam you have to have done it yourself. There is no where in Ireland that currently comes close. Sexual assault and rape is by no means exclusive to Islam, but where Islam goes it appears rape goes. There are many rapists of other religeons, but where a girl who is being raped is shared between father, son, uncles and cousins seems exclusive to Islam. Islam is the only religeon whose profit married and had sex with a 9 gr old girl. There are many horiffic stories and teaching in the bible too and all other books like it, but we know better than to take any notice of it. Christians follow a fraction of what the bible says. The west is thankfully becoming increasingly athiest.
Now let the left begin their assault. To answer the first inevitable response that will follow asking for links to prove my claims, kt took me long enough to write out this on my 5h1tty tablet I'm not going to spend another 20 mkns trying to put in links. Google is your friend, it's all freely available.

Snickers Man

ford2600 wrote: »

Compare Nobel laureates; Jews make up over 20% of winners from less than 0.2% of the world's population. 1.4% of winners have been Muslim.

Too much can be made of that. There was once a Rabbi who justified ritual male infant genital mutilation by saying: "My son cried more during his first haircut than during his briss and the only long-term effect is to increase your chances of winning a Nobel Prize".

Christopher Hitchens made him wish he hadn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZTS6iVpSPI

cocaliquid

Summer In the City wrote: »

Yeah, like the Brits drinking Guinness. When the paddy's were blowing up Manchester and raping their kids in boys homes they sat back with a nice pint of plain. We all get on great now so maybe you're on to something for the first time in your life.

You made me laugh so hard at your ignorance.

Summer In the City

cocaliquid wrote: »

You made me laugh so hard at your ignorance.

Well done. You identified a joke.

Snickers Man

TheManTheMyth wrote: »

There have been countless stories of Muslim immigrants degrading women and gay people all across Europe and generally not integrating into the countries that they have moved to, personally i was very pro migrant about a year (maybe a year and a half) ago but have completely 180'd on the topic and now have a serious feeling of discomfort when i think about Islam spreading to Ireland. Am i the only person who feels like we have enough problems without adding this new religion into the mix? the idea that governments want to change the views of their own people rather than address the source of the issue (in my eyes Islam and the less liberal nations from which these groups originate)scares me because it sends us back to the times of keeping everything silent, it will only lead to another catholic church situation where eventually their atrocities all come to light at once.

What is this? Advance publicity for the appearance in Dublin shortly of Douglas Murray, a repulsive little Anglo-Scottish fear and hate monger who parrots drivel like this in a learned languid manner that could lull you into thinking there is an ounce of intelligence, insight or sensitivity underpinning it?

This is exactly the sort of ****e he comes out with. And it's all bollox.

Captain Obvious

murphthesmurf wrote: »

To decide whether it is right for Ireland we should look at other places where Islam has made home.
Sweden for example has areas with a very high number of Muslim migrants. These areas are no go areas for the police, if they are chasing a car and it enters certain areas they do not persue it. Sweden is also now the rape capital of Europe. Muslim gangs often go to music concerts specifically to sexually assault young women. They pick out a yoing girl and surround her so as to prevent anyone such as security intervening while they take it in turns to assault her. Mumford and Sons amongst others refuse to play at music concerts in Sweden until the problem is sorted. So its not worked out too well there.

Merkel has welcomed Islam with open arms. New yrs eve 2015 a few thousand of the new arrivals celebrated getting a new home by sexually assaulting women on new yrs eve around train stations. Germanys rape levels have increased considerably, a German feminist group held a protest march to demand the government do something as they no longer feel safe walking the streets. They were attacked during the march by anti-facists which is interesting, get raped quietly appears to be the message there.

The UK, which I have had a lot of first hand experience of as i was born there and lived most of my life there. Rotherham is an obvious example. Thousands of young girls raped and abused, given drugs and alcohol while as many as 50 men queued up to have sex with them. Theirs and their families lives threatened if they spoke a word to anyone. One young girls was branded with an 'M' on her bottom to signify that she is the property of Muslims. Girls as young as 11. This is not exclusive to Rotherham, Oxford had similar, Luton, Telford is the most recent to be exposed. Some horrific stories. This has been going on for a long time in almost every town/city with a high Muslim population in the UK. It was common knowledge for me and everyone I know for a long time. Tens of thousands of young vulnerable girls. This wasn't done by a small minority of Muslims. There would be queues of men waiting to take turns on these girls, as many as 50 at a time. There will be many more of these cases being discovered for other towns and cities I would bet my life on it.
On a Friday or Sat night I would go out to a nightclub in Birmingham. In that nightclub would be English, Jamaicans, Sikh, Hindu etc etc. We would mix, some of my friends were sikh, some black. The only people missing from the nightclub would be Muslims, with the exception of the odd Kosovan. The Muslims would all be driving around outside waiting for the girls to come out. Waiting to target the girls who had too much to drink or strayed away from their friends. This is something I would see week in week out. I lived outside of Birmingham around the black country. An area near me was Tipton, an area with quite a few jihadi fighters. They were known as the Tipton Taliban.
There are areas that we do not go, Smethwick, Small Heath, Handsworth.

Then there is France, things haven't been going well here either.
The Italians have had thousands of Migrants arriving on their shores, they recently voted for an anti immigration party.
I've left out all the obvious terror attacks that we all know about, like the children at the music concert in Manchester.

I'm not a racist, although I probably sound like one. To understand what it is really like living with a high population of Islam you have to have done it yourself. There is no where in Ireland that currently comes close. Sexual assault and rape is by no means exclusive to Islam, but where Islam goes it appears rape goes. There are many rapists of other religeons, but where a girl who is being raped is shared between father, son, uncles and cousins seems exclusive to Islam. Islam is the only religeon whose profit married and had sex with a 9 gr old girl. There are many horiffic stories and teaching in the bible too and all other books like it, but we know better than to take any notice of it. Christians follow a fraction of what the bible says. The west is thankfully becoming increasingly athiest.
Now let the left begin their assault. To answer the first inevitable response that will follow asking for links to prove my claims, kt took me long enough to write out this on my 5h1tty tablet I'm not going to spend another 20 mkns trying to put in links. Google is your friend, it's all freely available.

Can you add your sources to all those statistical claims?

Captain Obvious

80% seem happy with integration among immigrants.

The_Kew_Tour

That's cause those questioned were immigrants:P

jmayo

Summer In the City wrote: »

What point are you trying to make here exactly? You reckon Kosovo, Albania, UAE are not Muslim countries because some were communist, some are cosmopolitan... I have no idea what you're actually trying to say.

I never said they weren't muslim countries, but they are not representative of a lot of the majorily muslim countries, and especially those who are sending the majority of the immigrants.

And yes it is because the likes of Kosova and Albania have a European and communist past.
The communist regimes didn't have any truck with religions, islam especially.
Hence a lot of people did not practice and people grew up in environments where religion did not have major sway on social and cultural life.
Compare that to North Africa, Middle East or Pakistan and Afghanistan which has had islam dictating social and cultural life for centuries and especially in the last 60/70 odd years since independence from colonial powers.

bubblypop wrote: »

It is a Muslim majority country. Just because it doesn't fit what you perceive a Muslim country to be, doesn't matter.

Life is perfectly 'western' here, if that's how you like it described.

Ehh it is in Europe.
I think we have said that already.
But as I pointed out earlier the state has big problems with certain foreign muslim states backing charities and organisations that are trying to spread a more fundamentalist brand of islam.

Can you concede that point ?

After reading some of the stuff I am impressed how much of an effort the authorities are making in trying to prevent their newly created state becoming a hot bed of fundamentalists.

bubblypop wrote: »

People on this thread are complaining about Muslims coming into Ireland & changing it. I am merely proving that its not Islam.
You can't say 'Muslims do this & that because Islam is this & the other' & when it is shown that there are plenty of Muslims who don't do those things, turn around & say ' oh well not those Muslims in those Muslim countries! I mean the other ones....'

So, if you have a problem with certain people I would suggest you look beyond their religion because it's clearly NOT the religion.

I suppose the point is when people say the muslim world they generally mean North Africa, Middle East and parts of Asia, not a few countries in Europe.

But to some it is just not their religion, it can be an encompassing ideology and drives social and cultural interactions.
That can be the major difference between your Kosovan muslims and those destined for Europe from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Middle East, North Africa.

Would a lot of Kosovans have grown up in an environment where girls went out, women wore skirts and sleeveless tops, people drank alcohol and went night clubbing?

If you grew up in Afghanistan you would need to be nearly 50 something to have experienced anything similar and even then it would only have been those in the likes of Kabul.

If you grew up in some countries you would never have experienced any of that.

And those are the ones now turning up in Europe.

Grayson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I'm not a racist,

Sure you are. But what's one more lie. You should google all the claims you made there. There's so much stuff that's just completely wrong.

gw80

Captain Obvious wrote: »

80% seem happy with integration among immigrants.

That piece is a bit misleading tbh, by mistake or not.im not sure.
It seems to me at first it is talking about immigrants which most people would asume to be eu migrants, and i would definitely believe that 80% of people have no problem with, but then it shoehorns in the word refugees, and thats a different kettle of fish.
To me its a bit dishonest to lump them all in together to give people the impression that its all the same situation.

And i think its a bit dishonest of you to link that piece into a thread about islam. Do you think 80% of the population would be happy about muslim immigrants?

JohnMc1

Grayson wrote: »

Sure you are. But what's one more lie. You should google all the claims you made there. There's so much stuff that's just completely wrong.

The New Year's Eve rapes have been public knowledge for a couple of years now.

The_Kew_Tour

gw80 wrote: »

That piece is a bit misleading tbh, by mistake or not.im not sure.
It seems to me at first it is talking about immigrants which most people would asume to be eu migrants, and i would definitely believe that 80% of people have no problem with, but then it shoehorns in the word refugees, and thats a different kettle of fish.
To me its a bit dishonest to lump them all in together to give people the impression that its all the same situation.

And i think its a bit dishonest of you to link that piece into a thread about islam. Do you think 80% of the population would be happy about muslim immigrants?

Yep read it and was its bit all over shop, without it even being all over shop, if get me:pac:

The_Kew_Tour

Grayson wrote: »

Sure you are. But what's one more lie. You should google all the claims you made there. There's so much stuff that's just completely wrong.

Can you show where he hates a Race of People Please?

BuilderPlumber

I feel there are other threats going on in Ireland. In the rush to demonise Muslims and immigrants, the media and nationalists ignore a lot. For me, I have come across the following:

Crime and anti social behaviour. 99% conducted by settled Irish nationals.
Condemnation of lifestyles including alcohol consumption. Not by Muslims. I have met many Muslims and never did they say to stop going to bars or buying alcohol. However, the health fanatic brigade in the media are always condemning alcohol, sugar and many other food and drink products. There is a Taliban in Ireland, a Health Taliban and nothing Islamic about it.
Religious fanaticism. I have encountered these and all of them are either old style Catholics or born again types.

BuilderPlumber

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I feel there are other threats going on in Ireland. In the rush to demonise Muslims and immigrants, the media and nationalists ignore a lot.

I must have blinked. When have the media in Ireland demonized or even come close to criticizing Muslims or immigrants?

They've complained about the governments handling of the situation, and rightly so... but virtually every piece I've seen from the Irish media is an effort to generate support for immigrants/refugees.