Is Islam right for Ireland?

Captain Obvious

masculinist wrote: »

I have a handful of lovely Muslim friends who live abroad. I had to write a letter of invitation so they could visit me because of shengen... however some of their associates in their community abroad who would know them enough to have a conversation DO fit into the template. I never said all of them too. However if we adopt the free for all anarchy which sjws demand ( or else youre a wacist ) then assimilation will be completely and utterly impossible. And currently as sjws demand , there is no discrimination between good and bad immigrants. NOTHING. Using some common sense is now racist according to their mindset.

How would you differentiate between a good and bad immigrant?

masculinist

Captain Obvious wrote: »

How would you differentiate between a good and bad immigrant?

Are you saying its impossible ? Are you without any ideas at all ? I'm expecting a sarcastic response.
The first step is to control the flow. Unlimited numbers is insanity.

Next I would want them to verbally and in written form support Gay rights , equality for women, free speech and a enlightenment renaissance western attitude towards human rights etc and not to act in such a way which opposes that. That would be a start and there would be a lawyers version of such a social contract. Nobody is forcing them to come here. If they dont' want to live in a country with human rights they are free not to come.
I would also incorporate the very real prospect of being stripped of Irish citizenship and deported back to their original country for anyone who undermines a particular set of values or commits a serious crime. Lawyers and referendums and so forth could codify such things better than a post in a forum.

The first step is to slow down the flow to match Garda, state resources and social resources of the indigeneous population. A good immigrant is an assimilated immigrant. Thats the real definition. Too much too soon plus special treatment means unassimilated immigrants. Unassimilated immigrants, alienated immigrants are bad immigrants.

I strongly believe that if an existing community is not assimilated then they should have a vastly reduced quota in favor of other ethnicities (or in favor of other identities within those ethnicities e.g Egyptian Christians ) until they do assimilate.

Now you can be as sarcastic as you want. You can call me wacist all you want.

Captain Obvious

masculinist wrote: »

Are you saying its impossible ? Are you without any ideas at all ? I'm expecting a sarcastic response.
The first step is to control the flow. Unlimited numbers is insanity.

Next I would want them to verbally and in written form support Gay rights , equality for women, free speech and a enlightenment renaissance western attitude towards human rights etc and not to act in such a way which opposes that. That would be a start and there would be a lawyers version of such a social contract. Nobody is forcing them to come here. If they dont' want to live in a country with human rights they are free not to come.
I would also incorporate the very real prospect of being stripped of Irish citizenship and deported back to their original country for anyone who undermines a particular set of values or commits a serious crime. Lawyers and referendums and so forth could codify such things better than a post in a forum.

The first step is to slow down the flow to match Garda, state resources and social resources of the indigeneous population. A good immigrant is an assimilated immigrant. Thats the real definition. Too much too soon plus special treatment means unassimilated immigrants. Unassimilated immigrants, alienated immigrants are bad immigrants.

I strongly believe that if an existing community is not assimilated then they should have a vastly reduced quota in favor of other ethnicities (or in favor of other identities within those ethnicities e.g Egyptian Christians ) until they do assimilate.

Now you can be as sarcastic as you want. You can call me wacist all you want.

Your idea is to get them to sign a contract or take an oath. What if they simply lie?

weldoninhio

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Your idea is to get them to sign a contract or take an oath. What if they simply lie?

Breach of contract leading to deportation.

Gravelly

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Your idea is to get them to sign a contract or take an oath. What if they simply lie?

Why would they lie?

10000maniacs

masculinist wrote: »

Are you saying its impossible ? Are you without any ideas at all ? I'm expecting a sarcastic response.
The first step is to control the flow. Unlimited numbers is insanity.

Next I would want them to verbally and in written form support Gay rights , equality for women, free speech and a enlightenment renaissance western attitude towards human rights etc and not to act in such a way which opposes that. That would be a start and there would be a lawyers version of such a social contract. Nobody is forcing them to come here. If they dont' want to live in a country with human rights they are free not to come.
I would also incorporate the very real prospect of being stripped of Irish citizenship and deported back to their original country for anyone who undermines a particular set of values or commits a serious crime. Lawyers and referendums and so forth could codify such things better than a post in a forum.

The first step is to slow down the flow to match Garda, state resources and social resources of the indigeneous population. A good immigrant is an assimilated immigrant. Thats the real definition. Too much too soon plus special treatment means unassimilated immigrants. Unassimilated immigrants, alienated immigrants are bad immigrants.

I strongly believe that if an existing community is not assimilated then they should have a vastly reduced quota in favor of other ethnicities (or in favor of other identities within those ethnicities e.g Egyptian Christians ) until they do assimilate.

Now you can be as sarcastic as you want. You can call me wacist all you want.

I agree with all of that, and just to add protestations against perceived slights against religion should be outlawed here. We all know where this type of frenzied protest ends up. And it ain't pretty.
Its no good after Charlie Hebdo has been wiped out to parrot off "Je Suis Charlie".
Its too late at that stage.

Captain Obvious

weldoninhio wrote: »

Breach of contract leading to deportation.

So the plan is not to filter good immigrants from bad but to deport immigrants if they subsequently turn out to be bad.

Gravelly wrote: »

Why would they lie?

To get in.

Grayson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Do the natives of Marseilles also turn to terrorism? Do any of the other religious minorities of Marseilles turn to terrorism? If not then I don't think the bus is the reason.

The bus is an example of how the population was segregated when they arrived. That's the point. The same happened in other French cities where arabs were placed in separate neighborhoods.
People complain that they never integrated, well the policies that were in place meant there was next to no chance of that happening. About the same time in the US we saw stuff like the housing projects. A deliberate effort to move poor black people into neighborhoods away from richer white people.
It in effect created ghetto's where there's loads of social problems. It's the perfect recruiting ground for disenfranchised young men.

Now I'm not saying it's the only reason but for many it is a contributing reason.
I've said before the reasons behind terrorist can be complex. It goes further than saying "muslim" and leaving it at that.

masculinist

10000maniacs wrote: »

I agree with all of that, and just to add protestations against perceived slights against religion should be outlawed here. We all know where this type of frenzied protest ends up. And it ain't pretty.
Its no good after Charlie Hebdo has been wiped out to parrot off "Je Suis Charlie".
Its too late at that stage.

There will be a lot of manufactured excuses against doing the right thing.

The same laws should also apply to imported preachers for all religions. And if we are to have hate speech laws at all then those
laws should be strictly applied also to the pulpit or the minbar (which is the Islamic name for pulpit)

Our Gardai have no problems with beating hippies or anyone they are told to off the streets for various vested interests . Just take a look at Shellforsea and the water charges protests and so on. The establishment is afraid of nothing. We must make them accountable for our society in the makeup and enforcement of law.


Notice and this is important . Those who oppose common sense government of Ireland will ask questions in constant criticism until they trip you up with a typo or an unclear statement but they have absolutely nothing positive to offer. The most they have to offer is smug false accusations. At best they stubbornly refuse to understand your point of view. It's a strategy just like how Jordan Peterson was treated on Channel4

It took thousands of years to get where we are and learn the lessons we have learned. Those who would throw our civilisation and its progress away in the blink of an eye are beneath contempt. Dark ages historically follow times of prosperity because people become corrupt and lazy. I would rather put off the next dark age for as long as possible.

Gravelly

Captain Obvious wrote: »

To get in.

But they wouldn't have to lie to get in, just sign up to follow the societal norms of this country.

Grayson

masculinist wrote: »

There will be a lot of manufactured excuses against doing the right thing.

No we're discussing if it's the right thing.

I'm more than happy to discuss ethics with you. Tell me under what ethical framework it's the right thing and we can get started.

jmayo

JupiterKid wrote: »

When the first sex shop in Ireland opened back in 1991 The Legion of Mary protested outside it for nearly a year.

Thankfully they failed.

And they still haven't attacked it and killed the staff.

Grayson wrote: »

The bus is an example of how the population was segregated when they arrived. That's the point. The same happened in other French cities where arabs were placed in separate neighborhoods.
People complain that they never integrated, well the policies that were in place meant there was next to no chance of that happening. About the same time in the US we saw stuff like the housing projects. A deliberate effort to move poor black people into neighborhoods away from richer white people.
It in effect created ghetto's where there's loads of social problems. It's the perfect recruiting ground for disenfranchised young men.

Now I'm not saying it's the only reason but for many it is a contributing reason.
I've said before the reasons behind terrorist can be complex. It goes further than saying "muslim" and leaving it at that.

That can go to explain some, but how do you explain the reasonably well educated and middle class offspring of reasonably successful immigrants turning to ultra extremism?

One of the guys, Kermiche, that hacked the head off a french priest was the son of a professor and had a sister a doctor.

Jihadi john had third level education and not a bad job.

Mutant z

I'm islamophobic and proud of it why should i respect an ideology which has caused nothing but mass human suffering and misery frankly i think that term is ridiculous because its perfectly rational but if the left want to call anyone who refuse to bow down and lick it on the feet that word then they can go right on ahead as far as I'm concerned i really couldn't give a fiddles.

Grayson

jmayo wrote: »

And they still haven't attacked it and killed the staff.



That can go to explain some, but how do you explain the reasonably well educated and middle class offspring of reasonably successful immigrants turning to ultra extremism?

One of the guys, Kermiche, that hacked the head off a french priest was the son of a professor and had a sister a doctor.

Jihadi john had third level education and not a bad job.

Now, did you read this bit.

Now I'm not saying it's the only reason but for many it is a contributing reason.

How is it that I can put something like that into a post and people ignore it.

Pointing out that a particular islamist wasn't from a poor background doesn't disprove my point because I said it was a contributing factor for many but not all.

Grayson

Mutant z wrote: »

I'm islamophobic and proud of it why should i respect an ideology which has caused nothing but mass human suffering and misery frankly i think that term is ridiculous because its perfectly rational but if the left want to call anyone who refuse to bow down and lick it on the feet that word then they can go right on ahead as far as I'm concerned i really couldn't give a fiddles.

It hasn't caused nothing but mass human suffering.
And no-one wants you to bow down to anyone. The point is to treat muslims like they were any other human being. If you happen to meet one who's a dick then treat him appropriately but don't assume he's a dick without knowing more about him.

Mutant z

Grayson wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

I'm islamophobic and proud of it why should i respect an ideology which has caused nothing but mass human suffering and misery frankly i think that term is ridiculous because its perfectly rational but if the left want to call anyone who refuse to bow down and lick it on the feet that word then they can go right on ahead as far as I'm concerned i really couldn't give a fiddles.

It hasn't caused nothing but mass human suffering.
And no-one wants you to bow down to anyone. The point is to treat muslims like they were any other human being. If you happen to meet one who's a dick then treat him appropriately but don't assume he's a dick without knowing more about him.

I don't care there's far too many extremist within it who hate absolutely everything about modern civilisation and what it stands for we have moved a long way from the stone age which many want to drag us back to under a sharia hellhole.

BarryD2

Birds of a feather flock together. Us Irish tend/ tended to congregate in the USA, England or wherever enough emigrate/ travel to. So can understand the need/ desire for followers of Islam to group together in Ireland and other European countries. The problem though is mixing in with general populace over time, culturally this is/was easier for Irish in USA, England etc and indeed why these were countries of choice in the first place. Cultures of Islam and Christianity though are like oil and water, hard to mix and easily separated.

This is the greater challenge. How can immigrants of Islamic culture meld with Irish society and people? I'm not convinced they can and there lies danger.

ancapailldorcha

Mutant z wrote: »

I don't care there's far too many extremist within it who hate absolutely everything about modern civilisation and what it stands for we have moved a long way from the stone age which many want to drag us back to under a sharia hellhole.

When did Sharia law ever apply in Ireland?

Hector Savage

Mutant z wrote: »

I'm islamophobic and proud of it why should i respect an ideology which has caused nothing but mass human suffering and misery frankly i think that term is ridiculous because its perfectly rational but if the left want to call anyone who refuse to bow down and lick it on the feet that word then they can go right on ahead as far as I'm concerned i really couldn't give a fiddles.

Spot on

Mutant z

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

I don't care there's far too many extremist within it who hate absolutely everything about modern civilisation and what it stands for we have moved a long way from the stone age which many want to drag us back to under a sharia hellhole.

When did Sharia law ever apply in Ireland?

That's the sort of system that many muslims want for this country to overthrow democracy to replace it with their own Islamic state they have no wish to integrate into Irish culture but want to impose their own ideological beliefs on everyone else we could do without such people here thank you very much.

Captain Obvious

Mutant z wrote: »

That's the sort of system that many muslims want for this country to overthrow democracy to replace it with their own Islamic state they have no wish to integrate into Irish culture but want to impose their own ideological beliefs on everyone else we could do without such people here thank you very much.

Citation needed.

murphthesmurf

Grayson wrote: »

The bus is an example of how the population was segregated when they arrived. That's the point. The same happened in other French cities where arabs were placed in separate neighborhoods.
People complain that they never integrated, well the policies that were in place meant there was next to no chance of that happening. About the same time in the US we saw stuff like the housing projects. A deliberate effort to move poor black people into neighborhoods away from richer white people.
It in effect created ghetto's where there's loads of social problems. It's the perfect recruiting ground for disenfranchised young men.

Now I'm not saying it's the only reason but for many it is a contributing reason.
I've said before the reasons behind terrorist can be complex. It goes further than saying "muslim" and leaving it at that.

It's not any reason. When the Sikhs and Hindus arrived in the UK they would have faced the same problems that the Muslims face. Yet they managed to avoid beheading soldiers in the street or blowing up children at a rock concert. So what was different? The Sikhs have done extremely well in the UK. Many own their own businesses or work in high paid jobs. If you see a Porsche or Ferrari around the areas I grew up in it will most likely be an Indian driving it. How can some marginalised minorities flourish and yet Muslims do not?
Other minorities also avoided raping and torturing thousands of children, how is that? What is your explanation for such radically different outcomes?

ancapailldorcha

Mutant z wrote: »

That's the sort of system that many muslims want for this country to overthrow democracy to replace it with their own Islamic state they have no wish to integrate into Irish culture but want to impose their own ideological beliefs on everyone else we could do without such people here thank you very much.

You said "drag us back" meaning that Sharia law once applied in Ireland. I'd like to know when Ireland was a Sharia country.

weldoninhio

Captain Obvious wrote: »

So the plan is not to filter good immigrants from bad but to deport immigrants if they subsequently turn out to be bad.



To get in.

Bad could mean a protest against USA as above in the video. How many time do we have to hear “known to police” after a tragedy before something is done to preempt the tragedy. The broken windows policy that worked so well in NYC adapted to immigrants, who want to be here, so it’s not being forced on them, would work I think. Although no policy is 100% infallible.

Hector Savage

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You said "drag us back" meaning that Sharia law once applied in Ireland. I'd like to know when Ireland was a Sharia country.

He meant when the RCC ruled here and well you know it.

Mutant z

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

That's the sort of system that many muslims want for this country to overthrow democracy to replace it with their own Islamic state they have no wish to integrate into Irish culture but want to impose their own ideological beliefs on everyone else we could do without such people here thank you very much.

You said "drag us back" meaning that Sharia law once applied in Ireland. I'd like to know when Ireland was a Sharia country.

It wasn't but Ireland was around in the time of the stone age which i presume was a lot more primitive than today the problem is Islamic countries still practise laws from around about those times while European ones have moved a long way forward and left primitive behaviours behind them in the modern 21st century.

ancapailldorcha

Mutant z wrote: »

It wasn't but Ireland was around in the time of the stone age which i presume was a lot more primitive than today the problem is Islamic countries still practise laws from around about those times while European ones have moved a long way forward and left primitive behaviours behind them in the modern 21st century.

Utter nonsense. Mohammed was born in 570. I'm not aware of any Parliaments or legislation having existed in the Stone Age.

weldoninhio

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You said "drag us back" meaning that Sharia law once applied in Ireland. I'd like to know when Ireland was a Sharia country.

“Notice and this is important . Those who oppose common sense government of Ireland will ask questions in constant criticism until they trip you up with a typo or an unclear statement but they have absolutely nothing positive to offer. The most they have to offer is smug false accusations. At best they stubbornly refuse to understand your point of view. It's a strategy just like how Jordan Peterson was treated on Channel4“


Like clockwork.

ancapailldorcha

weldoninhio wrote: »

“Notice and this is important . Those who oppose common sense government of Ireland will ask questions in constant criticism until they trip you up with a typo or an unclear statement but they have absolutely nothing positive to offer. The most they have to offer is smug false accusations. At best they stubbornly refuse to understand your point of view. It's a strategy just like how Jordan Peterson was treated on Channel4“


Like clockwork.

Precision with language is important. There's a chapter in his book about that.

RustyNut

murphthesmurf wrote: »

It's not any reason. When the Sikhs and Hindus arrived in the UK they would have faced the same problems that the Muslims face. Yet they managed to avoid beheading soldiers in the street or blowing up children at a rock concert. So what was different? The Sikhs have done extremely well in the UK. Many own their own businesses or work in high paid jobs. If you see a Porsche or Ferrari around the areas I grew up in it will most likely be an Indian driving it. How can some marginalised minorities flourish and yet Muslims do not?
Other minorities also avoided raping and torturing thousands of children, how is that? What is your explanation for such radically different outcomes?

That's just bullsh1t not true now is it?

masculinist

Mutant z wrote: »

I'm islamophobic and proud of it why should i respect an ideology which has caused nothing but mass human suffering and misery frankly i think that term is ridiculous because its perfectly rational but if the left want to call anyone who refuse to bow down and lick it on the feet that word then they can go right on ahead as far as I'm concerned i really couldn't give a fiddles.

You are not Islamophobic. You are a brave Islamo-realist because you acknowledge the fruits of Islam everywhere it is planted. And you are not afraid to speak out.
If you were afraid of Islam then you would brainwash yourself in loony left sjw Stockholm syndrome ideology to convince yourself that nothing is wrong.

murphthesmurf

RustyNut wrote: »

That's just bullsh1t not true now is it?

You need to look back at the comments I was replying to, and my previous comments. Why do we always get these petty little comments. I wasn't implying that no Muslim's succeed ever. Never mind, I can't be bothered replying.

jmayo

Grayson wrote: »

Now, did you read this bit.

How is it that I can put something like that into a post and people ignore it.

Pointing out that a particular islamist wasn't from a poor background doesn't disprove my point because I said it was a contributing factor for many but not all.

But I am asking you how it can be explained.
Poverty and feeling disenfranchised could possibly explain the case for some but how does it explain people from relatively well to do backgrounds ?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

When did Sharia law ever apply in Ireland?

Politics Cafe is now dead so now you are here to impart your wisdom. :rolleyes:

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Citation needed.

ancapailldorcha is going to really like you.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You said "drag us back" meaning that Sharia law once applied in Ireland. I'd like to know when Ireland was a Sharia country.

Ahh yes the feinting not understanding a point or honing in on a little semantic inconsistency since one cannot target the underlying point.

ancapailldorcha

jmayo wrote: »

Ahh yes the feinting not understanding a point or honing in on a little semantic inconsistency since one cannot target the underlying point.

His words, not mine. Frankly, if he wants to use such absurd language then it's hard to take it seriously.

Grayson

Mutant z wrote: »

I don't care there's far too many extremist within it who hate absolutely everything about modern civilisation and what it stands for we have moved a long way from the stone age which many want to drag us back to under a sharia hellhole.

So you're ok with treating all muslims as if they were the bad ones?

Grayson

Here's an interesting article from the journal (it's actually shocking they have anything this coherent) about young men being radicalized.

http://www.thejournal.ie/why-does-a-person-become-radicalised-3887679-Mar2018/

Auguste Comte

murphthesmurf wrote: »

You need to look back at the comments I was replying to, and my previous comments. Why do we always get these petty little comments. I wasn't implying that no Muslim's succeed ever. Never mind, I can't be bothered replying.

So when you said

How can some marginalised minorities flourish and yet Muslims do not?

What you should have said is


"How can some marginalised minorities flourish and yet Muslims do as well ?"

Just LOL

Mutant z

Grayson wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

I don't care there's far too many extremist within it who hate absolutely everything about modern civilisation and what it stands for we have moved a long way from the stone age which many want to drag us back to under a sharia hellhole.

So you're ok with treating all muslims as if they were the bad ones?

What i want is to stop treating the issue like kid gloves and confront it head on no more burying heads in the sand pretending there's nothing wrong Islamic extremism is the greatest problem facing the west let's acknowledge that fact please instead of using terms like islamophobe to try to shut down all discussion on the matter.

ancapailldorcha

Mutant z wrote: »

What i want is to stop treating the issue like kid gloves and confront it head on no more burying heads in the sand pretending there's nothing wrong Islamic extremism is the greatest problem facing the west let's acknowledge that fact please instead of using terms like islamophobe to try to shut down all discussion on the matter.

With respect, I could say the same thing about tarring 1.6 billion Muslims with the same brush. Nobody has denied that Islamic extremism is a major problem that needs to be dealt with.

jmayo

Grayson wrote: »

Here's an interesting article from the journal (it's actually shocking they have anything this coherent) about young men being radicalized.

http://www.thejournal.ie/why-does-a-person-become-radicalised-3887679-Mar2018/

It is trotting out some of the usual excuses ala ...

This, coupled with living in a society “that’s so saturated with negative ideas about being Muslim”, made them more susceptible to radical ideas.

It is society's fault and other people's fault for not being nicer to them.

Maybe if muslims weren't associated with worldwide mass slaughters, child rape grooming gangs, backward states where women are stoned to death or forced to marry their rapists, and generally being seen as treating women like shyte then you know they could be seen in a more positive light.

Foreign policy often plays a role too, he said, and “young people feeling a sense of grievance towards the way that their fellow co-religionists are treated around the world”.

“That same grievance towards the way western governments might enact a foreign policy is also felt towards the governments in those majority Muslim countries as well, so it’s not always clear-cut,” Hussain told TheJournal.ie.

And of course it's foreign policy.

So can anyone please explain how you get back at France's foreign policy by slitting the throat of an elderly priest in a sleepy village or by trying to machete a Jewish teacher to death or driving a truck down through pedestrians out for a stroll of an evening on a seaside promenade ?

Mutant z

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

What i want is to stop treating the issue like kid gloves and confront it head on no more burying heads in the sand pretending there's nothing wrong Islamic extremism is the greatest problem facing the west let's acknowledge that fact please instead of using terms like islamophobe to try to shut down all discussion on the matter.

With respect, I could say the same thing about tarring 1.6 billion Muslims with the same brush. Nobody has denied that Islamic extremism is a major problem that needs to be dealt with.

Well the whataboutary and blame everybody else in society crew would beg to differ with that.

ancapailldorcha

Mutant z wrote: »

Well the whataboutary and blame everybody else in society crew would beg to differ with that.

Who, specifically are you referring to?

jmayo

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Utter nonsense. Mohammed was born in 570. I'm not aware of any Parliaments or legislation having existed in the Stone Age.

Can I have a citation for that date please ?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

With respect, I could say the same thing about tarring 1.6 billion Muslims with the same brush. Nobody has denied that Islamic extremism is a major problem that needs to be dealt with.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Precision with language is important. There's a chapter in his book about that.

Following on about being precise.;)

Are you now admitting that there are about 200 million muslims that are extremist and bad ?

As of January 21, 2017, the Pew Research Institute estimates that there are about 1.8 billion Muslims in the world; nearly one-fourth of the world’s population today.

Your 1.6 billion is 2010 figures.

ancapailldorcha

jmayo wrote: »

Can I have a citation for that date please ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

jmayo wrote: »

Following on about being precise.;)

jmayo wrote: »

Are you now admitting that there are about 200 million muslims that are extremist and bad ?

As of January 21, 2017, the Pew Research Institute estimates that there are about 1.8 billion Muslims in the world; nearly one-fourth of the world’s population today.

Your 1.6 billion is 2010 figures.

The opinion poll where they interviewed a few thousand people and made generalisations about nearly 2 billion? That nonsense. No thanks.

Mutant z

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

Well the whataboutary and blame everybody else in society crew would beg to differ with that.

Who, specifically are you referring to?

The usual white colonialism and oppression, western foreign policy, marginalisation,etc anything but Islamic ideology itself its always Europeans who are to blame for causing muslims to act in savage ways those people I'm referring to.

Grayson

jmayo wrote: »

It is trotting out some of the usual excuses ala ...



It is society's fault and other people's fault for not being nicer to them.

Maybe if muslims weren't associated with worldwide mass slaughters, child rape grooming gangs, backward states where women are stoned to death or forced to marry their rapists, and generally being seen as treating women like shyte then you know they could be seen in a more positive light.



And of course it's foreign policy.

So can anyone please explain how you get back at France's foreign policy by slitting the throat of an elderly priest in a sleepy village or by trying to machete a Jewish teacher to death or driving a truck down through pedestrians out for a stroll of an evening on a seaside promenade ?

They said there were multiple causes. There's no single cause that drives someone to a radical group. Just like all the other radical groups in the world. Yes, muslims join radical muslim groups but when they do it's for a variety of reasons. just like there are multiple reasons for people joining other radical groups.

It's not a simple as saying it's because they are muslim which is the only reason some here will accept.

ancapailldorcha

Mutant z wrote: »

The usual white colonialism and oppression, western foreign policy, marginalisation,etc anything but Islamic ideology itself its always Europeans who are to blame for causing muslims to act in savage ways those people I'm referring to.

I asked who you are referring to. Who is saying these things?

Mutant z

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

The usual white colonialism and oppression, western foreign policy, marginalisation,etc anything but Islamic ideology itself its always Europeans who are to blame for causing muslims to act in savage ways those people I'm referring to.

I asked who you are referring to. Who is saying these things?

Many of those on the left who always try to blame everything else in society for the less than pleasant behaviour of many muslims.

murphthesmurf

Auguste Comte wrote: »

So when you said



What you should have said is


"How can some marginalised minorities flourish and yet Muslims do as well ?"

Just LOL

"
The bus is an example of how the population was segregated when they arrived. That's the point. The same happened in other French cities where arabs were placed in separate neighborhoods.
People complain that they never integrated, well the policies that were in place meant there was next to no chance of that happening. About the same time in the US we saw stuff like the housing projects. A deliberate effort to move poor black people into neighborhoods away from richer white people.
It in effect created ghetto's where there's loads of social problems. It's the perfect recruiting ground for disenfranchised young men.

Now I'm not saying it's the only reason but for many it is a contributing reason.
I've said before the reasons behind terrorist can be complex. It goes further than saying "muslim" and leaving it at that.


It's not any reason. When the Sikhs and Hindus arrived in the UK they would have faced the same problems that the Muslims face. Yet they managed to avoid beheading soldiers in the street or blowing up children at a rock concert. So what was different? The Sikhs have done extremely well in the UK. Many own their own businesses or work in high paid jobs. If you see a Porsche or Ferrari around the areas I grew up in it will most likely be an Indian driving it. How can some marginalised minorities flourish and yet Muslims do not?
Other minorities also avoided raping and torturing thousands of children, how is that? What is your explanation for such radically different outcomes?"

There is the original post, I was not meaning to imply that no Muslim's succeed. I was more discussing some of the excuses given for Muslim extremism and terrorism. Being marginalised was one excuse that is often used for Muslim immigrants turning to radicalism. My point was other minorities faced the same circumstances yet never resorted to extremism and beheading people.
Maybe I could have worded it better, but I'm at work and have no time to write a sermon.
You and the other poster knew what my point was. Neither of you could offer an answer so decided to try and deflect from it. The usual tactic that we see again and again.
Do you have an answer for why one minority group in a western country turns to radicalism and terrorism and the others don't. When they have both lived through the same marginalisation etc.
Can you also offer a reason why Muslim migrants commit gang rape of children, sharing them with fathers/uncles/sons/cousins and yet other migrants do not? I won't hold my breath.

Mutant z

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Auguste Comte wrote: »

So when you said



What you should have said is


"How can some marginalised minorities flourish and yet Muslims do as well ?"

Just LOL

"
The bus is an example of how the population was segregated when they arrived. That's the point. The same happened in other French cities where arabs were placed in separate neighborhoods.
People complain that they never integrated, well the policies that were in place meant there was next to no chance of that happening. About the same time in the US we saw stuff like the housing projects. A deliberate effort to move poor black people into neighborhoods away from richer white people.
It in effect created ghetto's where there's loads of social problems. It's the perfect recruiting ground for disenfranchised young men.

Now I'm not saying it's the only reason but for many it is a contributing reason.
I've said before the reasons behind terrorist can be complex. It goes further than saying "muslim" and leaving it at that.


It's not any reason. When the Sikhs and Hindus arrived in the UK they would have faced the same problems that the Muslims face. Yet they managed to avoid beheading soldiers in the street or blowing up children at a rock concert. So what was different? The Sikhs have done extremely well in the UK. Many own their own businesses or work in high paid jobs. If you see a Porsche or Ferrari around the areas I grew up in it will most likely be an Indian driving it. How can some marginalised minorities flourish and yet Muslims do not?
Other minorities also avoided raping and torturing thousands of children, how is that? What is your explanation for such radically different outcomes?"

There is the original post, I was not meaning to imply that no Muslim's succeed. I was more discussing some of the excuses given for Muslim extremism and terrorism. Being marginalised was one excuse that is often used for Muslim immigrants turning to radicalism. My point was other minorities faced the same circumstances yet never resorted to extremism and beheading people.
Maybe I could have worded it better, but I'm at work and have no time to write a sermon.
You and the other poster knew what my point was. Neither of you could offer an answer so decided to try and deflect from it. The usual tactic that we see again and again.
Do you have an answer for why one minority group in a western country turns to radicalism and terrorism and the others don't. When they have both lived through the same marginalisation etc.
Can you also offer a reason why Muslim migrants commit gang rape of children, sharing them with fathers/uncles/sons/cousins and yet other migrants do not? I won't hold my breath.

One word islam its as simple as that which is why the less we have here the better for future safety and security but most of all harmony.