Is Islam right for Ireland?

murphthesmurf

Grayson wrote: »

They said there were multiple causes. There's no single cause that drives someone to a radical group. Just like all the other radical groups in the world. Yes, muslims join radical muslim groups but when they do it's for a variety of reasons. just like there are multiple reasons for people joining other radical groups.

It's not a simple as saying it's because they are muslim which is the only reason some here will accept.

Can you name a none Muslim radical group where it's members strap explosives to themselves and blow up teenagers at a music concert?

Mutant z

Mutant z wrote: »

pretending there's nothing wrong Islamic extremism is the greatest problem facing the west

While I don't believe it's the greatest problem....
I don't think anyone actually thinks Islamic extremism is good. I don't think anyone believes extreme any religion is good.

murphthesmurf

So to sum up.
We have been discussing whether Islam is right for Ireland.
We have discovered that followers of Islam (Muslims) have been responsible for the rape and torture of thousands of children in the UK.
That Muslims in the UK (mainly Pakistani) often inbreed resulting in defects way above the national average.
That radical Islamic terrorism is a real threat, and the perpetrators are almost impossible to spot as they can be from any kind of background.
That countries with high numbers of Muslim migrants have experienced huge rises in rapes and sexual assaults.
That integration is a pipe dream.
That Muslims will not accept homosexuality.
That Muslims believe women to be inferior.
Etc
Etc.

Is Islam right for Ireland? Hell no!

Odhinn

Mutant z wrote: »

Many of those on the left who always try to blame everything else in society for the less than pleasant behaviour of many muslims.

Who, specifically?

Grayson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Can you name a none Muslim radical group where it's members strap explosives to themselves and blow up teenagers at a music concert?

Can you name a non Irish group that has mortered downing St? If you give a ridiculously exact example then of course I can't. And you can't answer mine.
BTW, did you know the first suicide bombing in the middle east (in modern times at least. Haven't researched too far back) was Jewish. It was against the British.
As for bombings of civilians I could name loads and the first 20 at least would be performed by Irish people.

Chris_Heilong

When Islam is totally reformed and accepts everyone for who they are then it will be welcomed in the west.

murphthesmurf

Grayson wrote: »

Can you name a non Irish group that has mortered downing St? If you give a ridiculously exact example then of course I can't. And you can't answer mine.
BTW, did you know the first suicide bombing in the middle east (in modern times at least. Haven't researched too far back) was Jewish. It was against the British.
As for bombings of civilians I could name loads and the first 20 at least would be performed by Irish people.

Ok
Do you have an answer for why one minority group in a western country turns to radicalism and terrorism and the others don't. When they have both lived through the same marginalisation etc.
Can you also offer a reason why Muslim migrants commit gang rape of children, sharing them with fathers/uncles/sons/cousins and yet other migrants do not?

masculinist

Grayson wrote: »

Can you name a non Irish group that has mortered downing St? .

Do you make as many excuses for the IRA war of liberation as you do for the Islamic war against liberation ?

AllForIt

As trollish as the OP sounds, I would agree with the general sentiment.

I think the real worry about any foreign nation or race is 'attitudes'. General attitudes about 'stuff' that are held by the nicest of people. For in those cultures, with those attitudes, breeds the extremists. They don't just pop out of thin air - "nothing to do with us, they is just bad - and it's your fault anyway".

But seriously, what has happened is lower working class Muslims have moved to the West and it hasn't exactly turned out as expected, has it.

I'm on the left of politics but not the loony left. The loony left seem to have a brain fart when it come to cultural integration. It's as if they have never pragmatically considered what it means., pragmatically. Fluffy ideas that all that is needed to make it work is to give up ones racist attitude. Nonsense, it's WAY more complicated than that.

Going back to culture, the north of England doesn't mix very well with the south, Dubliners don't exactly mix well with the culchies, so how in hell are foreigners from the middle east or north Africa gonna just meld into Irish culture. When they can't touch alcohol. Please.

murphthesmurf

I came across a news article earlier about a Swedish pro migrant campaigner, who has been raped by 2 Afghan migrants. I can't find the article again since though. Anyone else see it?

Mutant z

Odhinn wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

Many of those on the left who always try to blame everything else in society for the less than pleasant behaviour of many muslims.

Who, specifically?

Ruth Coppinger, Clare Daly Aodhan O Riordan, the IT crowd etc they think everyone who disagrees with them on the matters of immigration and Islam are racists.

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

Can you name a non Irish group that has mortered downing St?

The Luftwaffe

Gravelly

Grayson wrote: »

Can you name a non Irish group that has mortered downing St?

Whatever plasterers Sir George Downing employed presumably.

Incidentally, Winston Churchill said of the houses that make up Number 10 that they were "shaky and lightly built by the profiteering contractor whose name they bear"

Odhinn

Mutant z wrote: »

Ruth Coppinger, Clare Daly Aodhan O Riordan, the IT crowd etc they think everyone who disagrees with them on the matters of immigration and Islam are racists.

Excellent. You can provide examples of them doing so, I trust?

Galwayguy35

I think it bring nothing but trouble to this country, we only have to look across the water to see what Ireland will be like in years to come.

They need to root out the extremists living among them and realise if they want to live in our country they must observe our views and culture.

Our house our rules, they are the guests here.

Grayson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Ok
Do you have an answer for why one minority group in a western country turns to radicalism and terrorism and the others don't. When they have both lived through the same marginalisation etc.

Like say why some Irish people, including some second generation, in the UK bombed UK population centres for decades but muslims didn't? Despite the fact that both were subjected to racism?

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Can you also offer a reason why Muslim migrants commit gang rape of children, sharing them with fathers/uncles/sons/cousins and yet other migrants do not?

Muslim migrants don't. Some have, but as a percentage of the population they're tiny. But to say Muslim migrants as a collective group, commit sex offences, is completely untrue.

Grayson

masculinist wrote: »

Do you make as many excuses for the IRA war of liberation as you do for the Islamic war against liberation ?

No. I despise the IRA as I despise the all Islamic terror groups. However I'm sure you'd agree blaming all Irish people for the acts of a few is wrong. You and I and our parents bear no responsibility for the acts of a murderous few.

masculinist

Grayson wrote: »

No. I despise the IRA as I despise the all Islamic terror groups. However I'm sure you'd agree blaming all Irish people for the acts of a few is wrong. You and I and our parents bear no responsibility for the acts of a murderous few.

You don't seem to have learned anything from from the Plantation of Ulster.

I see the plantation happening right now, plantations forced upon Lisdoonvarna and on Kilkenny and so on.

Brae100

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I think it bring nothing but trouble to this country, we only have to look across the water to see what Ireland will be like in years to come.

They need to root out the extremists living among them and realise if they want to live in our country they must observe our views and culture.

Our house our rules, they are the guests here.

Your ilk are unreal. You ask irrelevant questions and when the are answered, you try to further disract by asking further irrelevant questions. Before you ask, I will not bother elabotating on who "your ilk" are.

How about you stop your attempts at trying to derail a discussion and give us your opinion on how we address the obvious problems that mass immigration of Muslims causes.

Kivaro

Creative83 wrote: »

I think there will be a major crisis in Europe... possibly within my lifetime... something like a civil war... but the end result will be catastrophic for one of the sides

I can see that happening too ...... thanks to a German (quelle surprise).
Frau Merkel opened the floodgates to people who have completely different cultural norms to Western society, and she has never said "stop", so they keep on coming.

If her aim was to create instability in Europe, then there is a strong possibility that she will succeed. The end result, at the very least, will be division within communities due to the lack of integration and acceptance of local customs/laws, and in the worse case scenario we will see revolution in Europe.

murphthesmurf

Grayson wrote: »

Like say why some Irish people, including some second generation, in the UK bombed UK population centres for decades but muslims didn't? Despite the fact that both were subjected to racism?



Muslim migrants don't. Some have, but as a percentage of the population they're tiny. But to say Muslim migrants as a collective group, commit sex offences, is completely untrue.

89% of grooming gangs from at most 4% of the population. That's not a minority. They have only scratched the surface of the towns and cities that were effected. There will be many more to come.

murphthesmurf

Brae100 wrote: »

How about you stop your attempts at trying to derail a discussion and give us your opinion on how we address the obvious problems that mass immigration of Muslims causes.

End the mass immigration of Muslims?

Galwayguy35

Brae100 wrote: »

Your ilk are unreal. You ask irrelevant questions and when the are answered, you try to further disract by asking further irrelevant questions. Before you ask, I will not bother elabotating on who "your ilk" are.

How about you stop your attempts at trying to derail a discussion and give us your opinion on how we address the obvious problems that mass immigration of Muslims causes.

Don't worry Jack I'm not asking you to elaborate on anything and I'm less bothered what you mean by it although I have a fair idea.

Seeing as this is only my second post on the thread I'm not sure how I was asking irrelevant questions and derailing the thread TBH.

Grayson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

89% of grooming gangs from at most 4% of the population. That's not a minority. They have only scratched the surface of the towns and cities that were effected. There will be many more to come.

It's a minority when you consider two facts.
1) There aren't many grooming gangs so thats a small sample size.
2) There's millions of muslims and the number who were in grooming gangs is a tiny percentage.

But you knew that. However you took one rogue statistic out of context to make your point.

The fact is that there are millions of muslims in the UK who aren't in grooming gangs. That's the statistic that matters when talking about muslims in general.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The opinion poll where they interviewed a few thousand people and made generalisations about nearly 2 billion? That nonsense. No thanks.

And again I find your dismissal of opinion polls you don't like the result of hilarious when you mod the Politics forum.

Brae100

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Don't worry Jack I'm not asking you to elaborate on anything and I'm less bothered what you mean by it although I have a fair idea.

Seeing as this is only my second post on the thread I'm not sure how I was asking irrelevant questions and derailing the thread TBH.

Apologies. The wrong quoted post was included in my reply. I had no problem with your post. It should have referenced Odhinn's post. Boards having a brain fart again.

Auguste Comte

Brae100 wrote: »

Boards having a brain fart again.

He he he...

donegaLroad

Thomas__. wrote: »

As long as the country is stable it can go on like that. Once there is a change of regime, it can be difficult. Just look at Syria, look at Turkey. Both were once rather secular and the latter even constitutional. Since the civil war in Syria, things are different and plenty of people fled the country to Jordan and Turkey. In Turkey with the growing power of Erdogan the country is step by step abandoning its constitutional secularity, as Erdogan is an Islamist himself.

Apologies for getting a bit hot under the collar a couple of days ago. It happens now and again on here!

Creative83

Creative83 wrote: »

I think there will be a major crisis in Europe... possibly within my lifetime... something like a civil war... but the end result will be catastrophic for one of the sides

Actually, I'd say we are in more danger from instability within our own society, than any direct threat from Muslims/Islam. Western society isn't anything close to being effective, and more stresses are appearing all the time.

The distances between the rich and the poor are growing at a rather shocking rate, and the effects on those on the middle are being squeezed to compensate. Revenues for most governments are decreasing while expenses are increasing. Very few European countries are self-sufficient in terms of food with a large percentage of foodstuffs coming from abroad, and the local farmers turning their land to other income streams just to make do. Our own industries are mostly focused on services and high-tech with little consideration for how automation will affect us in the future. A lot of those jobs can be replaced with automated robots, bots or more complicated AI. (All of which are being developed) Which in turn will increase unemployment, and the demands on social welfare. The sense of entitlement that persists in Western culture is quite worrying.

Then there's the general apathy many people are feeling about politics and the systems of governance. It's fine when things are going well, but western economies are still very fragile after the banking crash, and while Ireland might be improving, the rest of Europe isn't, especially with the unknown effects of Brexit still to be felt. No need to really talk about the instability of the EU and the general feeling that it needs to change but no indication that those changes will actually occur.

Islam is a worry because it adds stress to the existing system. Not so much the terrorism because that's a relatively scattered series of incidents. The bigger worry is the expenditure needed to address the needs of immigrants /refugees who do need housing, education, financial support, medical support etc. These aren't short-term costs. They're long-term costs, and will increase as more of them come here. There's also the friction with Islamic culture as seen in France and Germany when Muslims take over areas, and expect their culture to become dominant. That's going to get worse, and the reaction by natives is bound to be explosive. The nationalists are bad enough, but there's going to be many moderates who react badly to their neighborhoods being taken over, and seeing their nation changing in a way they had no say in.

I'm not really worried about Ireland. Not for the next decade anyway. After that... err. The numbers coming here are minor, but Ireland is pretty reliant on Europe. Without Europe as a supporter and a market, Irish revenue is likely to plummet. I know many on boards feel that Ireland could do well outside of the EU, but I don't see it. Instability in Europe will affect Ireland, and as Europe declines, Ireland will see those Migrants in Europe jumping ship to come here.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

And again I find your dismissal of opinion polls you don't like the result of hilarious when you mod the Politics forum.

Most opinion polls don't pretend to represent nearly 2 billion people.

weldoninhio

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

His words, not mine. Frankly, if he wants to use such absurd language then it's hard to take it seriously.

“Absurd language” that everyone else in the thread understood, bar you.

weldoninhio

Grayson wrote: »

It's a minority when you consider two facts.
1) There aren't many grooming gangs so thats a small sample size.
2) There's millions of muslims and the number who were in grooming gangs is a tiny percentage.

But you knew that. However you took one rogue statistic out of context to make your point.

The fact is that there are millions of muslims in the UK who aren't in grooming gangs. That's the statistic that matters when talking about muslims in general.

I’m sure the tens of thousands of young girls (that we know about) who were raped, abused, passed around like animals are delighted it was such a small sample.

ancapailldorcha

weldoninhio wrote: »

“Absurd language” that everyone else in the thread understood, bar you.

Oh, I understood. Hysterics, generalisations and general noise. If people are going to slavishly follow some alt-right Professor then one would think they'd have bought his book and actually tried incorporating it into their lives.

All the sly digs really serve to do is to reinforce my belief that you have no argument whatsoever. I try to read posts by the likes of Klaz and Wibbs who, while I disagree with them I can at least respect them and often find their posts challenging and illuminating if nothing else.

Brae100

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Oh, I understood. Hysterics, generalisations and general noise. If people are going to slavishly follow some alt-right Professor then one would think they'd have bought his book and actually tried incorporating it into their lives.

All the sly digs really serve to do is to reinforce my belief that you have no argument whatsoever. I try to read posts by the likes of Klaz and Wibbs who, while I disagree with them I can at least respect them and often find their posts challenging and illuminating if nothing else.

Actually, could you fûck off with your irrelevant nonsense. All you do is pop up with posts that offer nothing except calling people out on the equivalent of grammar mistakes. You bring nothing to the debate. This is a serious discussion about the serious issue of mass Islamic immigration, and your reply is to call people out on bad sentence structure. Could you please offer some intelligent input into how we deal with this issue, otherwise go away.

jcorr

It seems like Islam isn't right even for Darth Vader lol

https://youtu.be/-ptdJFFAy68

linked.

Pity that "rogue statistics" have killed so many people in europe recently

ancapailldorcha

Brae100 wrote: »

Actually, could you fûck off with your irrelevant nonsense. All you do is pop up with posts that offer nothing except calling people out on the equivalent of grammar mistakes. You bring nothing to the debate. This is a serious discussion about the serious issue of mass Islamic immigration, and your reply is to call people out on bad sentence structure. Could you please offer some intelligent input into how we deal with this issue, otherwise go away.

No, it's the usual Islamophobic safe space thread (with some exceptions as I alluded to in a previous post) with the same people who gleefully get on the same soapbox every time there's a terrorist attack or a foreigner rapes someone. There is no debate to a lot of people and the fact that you think terms like stone age legislation are typos says a lot to be honest. The fact that you have to use expletives suggests that you've been triggered or that you simply can't handle differing viewpoints.

baylah17

murphthesmurf wrote: »

End the mass immigration of Muslims?

There is no "mass immigration" of Muslims into Ireland, how do end something that doesn't exist???

baylah17

baylah17 wrote: »

There is no "mass immigration" of Muslims into Ireland, how do end something that doesn't exist???

Well... I'd suggest that you're both right and wrong here. Immigration to Europe from 3rd world nations and the Middle East is increasing. The amount of countries worldwide with severe civil instability, power grabs, civil wars, etc have all increased too, with many people seeking to leave those countries and go somewhere else. The US being the most desired destination, but the US is a different issue entirely. Europe is the next most desired location due to the standard of living, welfare benefits etc.

The actual numbers coming into Europe spread around all member states isn't incredibly high right now, but there is zero indication that the numbers are going to decrease. In fact, most estimates project a continued increase in the numbers of legal applications and those who cross the borders illegally.

Now. Ireland is part of the EU, and as such, is bound by many of it's internal laws, which includes the freedom for EU citizens to travel. While the numbers of Immigrants coming directly to Ireland are manageable (although we've only seen expensive mismanagement from our governments), the potential amounts of immigrants to Ireland is much higher should migrants to other EU states decide to move them here. It wouldn't be ideal for them but the possibility exists.

A hundred thousand migrants to Ireland over a few years isn't very noticeable beyond the media reports, but should a million come in from other EU states then that would be a very different story. The balance in Ireland is fragile because of it's relatively small population.

I don't mind people being skeptical of the dangers of immigration... but they really should pay more attention to whats happening around the world. Immigration to Europe is going to continue to rise. As Ireland's economy recovers, and our standard of living increases, then Ireland will increasingly become a more favorable target for immigrants, which will put more strain under the welfare state system, and also dilute the power of Irish people in political issues, as migrants gain citizenship.

Ireland is no longer an Island simply on the edge of Europe. We've always been somewhat isolated from Europe, but that can't be counted on anymore. Even without internal movement of Migrants within Europe, we are going to see far more immigrants coming to Ireland both legally and illegally. Rather than dismissing the possible issue, we should be preparing and implementing plans to deal with the problems that will arise from it... because even if it doesn't happen within the next decade, you will see it happening over the next 50 years. Better to deal with the issue now while they're relatively small, than waiting until it's a major problem.

Hector Savage

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Oh, I understood. Hysterics, generalisations and general noise. If people are going to slavishly follow some alt-right Professor then one would think they'd have bought his book and actually tried incorporating it into their lives.

All the sly digs really serve to do is to reinforce my belief that you have no argument whatsoever. I try to read posts by the likes of Klaz and Wibbs who, while I disagree with them I can at least respect them and often find their posts challenging and illuminating if nothing else.

Alt right professor ???

Are you talking about Jordan Peterson ?

:D:D:D:D

Thanks, I know now to take your posts as complete and utter drivel, in fact I might even use the ignore feature for the 1st time ...

ancapailldorcha

Hector Savage wrote: »

Alt right professor ???

Are you talking about Jordan Peterson ?

:D:D:D:D

Thanks, I know now to take your posts as complete and utter drivel, in fact I might even use the ignore feature for the 1st time ...

Obviously. Care to have a go at explaining my error or are you just going to stick with juvenile smileys?

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't mind people being skeptical of the dangers of immigration... but they really should pay more attention to whats happening around the world. Immigration to Europe is going to continue to rise. As Ireland's economy recovers, and our standard of living increases, then Ireland will increasingly become a more favorable target for immigrants, which will put more strain under the welfare state system, and also dilute the power of Irish people in political issues, as migrants gain citizenship.

Ireland is no longer an Island simply on the edge of Europe. We've always been somewhat isolated from Europe, but that can't be counted on anymore. Even without internal movement of Migrants within Europe, we are going to see far more immigrants coming to Ireland both legally and illegally. Rather than dismissing the possible issue, we should be preparing and implementing plans to deal with the problems that will arise from it... because even if it doesn't happen within the next decade, you will see it happening over the next 50 years. Better to deal with the issue now while they're relatively small, than waiting until it's a major problem.

But this is the thing. On one hand, you have an establishment trapped in a short time cycle of elections which discourages long term thinking leaving the issue unaddressed while on the other hand you have populists peddling border control and deportation as magic silver bullets. Globalisation is happening. Ireland leaving the EU would not change this one iota. The EU is, at its best a way to manage globalisation in as fair a manner as possible.

If Ireland does decide to take in more Muslim migrants or migrants in general from outside the EU then there needs to be a long term strategy regarding housing, education, infrastructure, healthcare, employment, investment, etc.. Basically, where do you intend to put them. Successive British governments have adopted a disastrous laissez-faire approach to this leaving the North of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland decimated due to industry heading abroad while the southeast of the UK remains prosperous but highly unaffordable.

weldoninhio

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Oh, I understood. Hysterics, generalisations and general noise. If people are going to slavishly follow some alt-right Professor then one would think they'd have bought his book and actually tried incorporating it into their lives.

All the sly digs really serve to do is to reinforce my belief that you have no argument whatsoever. I try to read posts by the likes of Klaz and Wibbs who, while I disagree with them I can at least respect them and often find their posts challenging and illuminating if nothing else.

Admits he understood something he completely misrepresented. Then claims others have no argument. :slow clap:

ancapailldorcha

weldoninhio wrote: »

Admits he understood something he completely misrepresented. Then claims others have no argument. :slow clap:

I didn't misrepresent anything. The user used specific phrasing and I enquired about it. I know it's against the safe space you'd clearly rather this thread was.

weldoninhio

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I didn't misrepresent anything. The user used specific phrasing and I enquired about it. I know it's against the safe space you'd clearly rather this thread was.

You’ve literally admitted that you knew what he was talking about. Yet you waffled on asking about when sharia law was ever in Ireland.

That is the definition of misrepresentation.

Edit: Just realised you’re using the tactic of dragging a thread off topic so that it gets binned. I won’t be replying again. Sorry Mods.

Kivaro

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If Ireland does decide to take in more Muslim migrants or migrants in general from outside the EU then there needs to be a long term strategy regarding housing, education, infrastructure, healthcare, employment, investment, etc.. Basically, where do you intend to put them. Successive British governments have adopted a disastrous laissez-faire approach to this leaving the North of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland decimated due to industry heading abroad while the southeast of the UK remains prosperous but highly unaffordable.

This is exactly what the vast majority of us want.
We would like structures in place to handle the intake of migrants, but any suggestions to slow the economic migrant influx until systems are in place to handle them is met by claims of nazism or racism.
If Ireland has such difficulty with healthcare and hospital beds, lack of housing, prefab schools, children's protection and mental services, water infrastructure etc. etc., how can we cope with large amounts of economic migrants?

I would also like to see the Government being honest with the numbers of illegal migrants in the country, but I get the sense that they are clueless on the actual numbers.

Wildcard7

Boards is generally very critical of the catholic church. Funny how the same criticism doesn't apply to a religion and culture (islam is NOT a race) that' s a lot more backward and intolerant, and that is considered more important than state law by a good percentage of their followers.

Islam is fundamentally a religion and culture of intolerance, and enabling that is NOT tolerance, it is intolerance.

Am I an islamophobe? Yes. I consider being a afraid of an ideology that sees itself above state law and that has nothing but hate, anger and violence to offer for anyone who disagrees, common sense.

Am I a racist? Hell no. I don' judge anyone by their race, their skin color, their height or their gender. I do however judge people by their believe system. And if you believe in an ideology that is so intolerant and violent in nature, then maybe you are not a great person. At least in my eyes.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

But this is the thing. On one hand, you have an establishment trapped in a short time cycle of elections which discourages long term thinking leaving the issue unaddressed while on the other hand you have populists peddling border control and deportation as magic silver bullets. Globalisation is happening. Ireland leaving the EU would not change this one iota. The EU is, at its best a way to manage globalisation in as fair a manner as possible.

Well, that's the problem with our society now. Everything is an extreme. You only have two options, both of which are bad. It seems like moderation is no longer possible, and we can no longer have something of both by taking the middle ground.

Don't get me wrong. I know that middle ground politics or ruling hasn't been terribly successful either, but there is this mentality that just because something has failed once, we can't improve on it.

We (Europe) really need to be looking at the middle ground here. Preventing all migration is impossible. Excluding Islam is impossible.Limiting migration is possible to certain degrees. But more importantly, we need to apply the reasonable idea of the left and the right in solving this issue but using the middle as the glue.

If Ireland does decide to take in more Muslim migrants or migrants in general from outside the EU then there needs to be a long term strategy regarding housing, education, infrastructure, healthcare, employment, investment, etc.. Basically, where do you intend to put them. Successive British governments have adopted a disastrous laissez-faire approach to this leaving the North of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland decimated due to industry heading abroad while the southeast of the UK remains prosperous but highly unaffordable.

Oh, I completely agree.

My real issue with immigration is the lack of real research and long-term planning. The research leads nowhere and doesn't provide realistic long-term projections anymore. Worse still, is that we no longer make long-term plans which are doable. That needs to change.

I'm not against immigration. I'm against the sheer stupidity of not being realistic about it. It's not going to stop. It's not going to disappear. We need realistic/practical plans which are based on solid research (not biased or following an agenda), to prepare us for what is coming.

silverharp

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If Ireland does decide to take in more Muslim migrants or migrants in general from outside the EU then there needs to be a long term strategy regarding housing, education, infrastructure, healthcare, employment, investment, etc.. Basically, where do you intend to put them. Successive British governments have adopted a disastrous laissez-faire approach to this leaving the North of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland decimated due to industry heading abroad while the southeast of the UK remains prosperous but highly unaffordable.

Its difficult to have faith in countries like Germany , their politicians routinely trot out that what is happening in Germany in the last couple of years is a good thing because somehow these largely unskilled and poorly educated individuals will pay for Germany's welfare system.
Ireland's chatterati aren't much better, resentment will increase over time if a sensible framing of the issue isn't even possible

JJJJNR

Islam is not the whole problem, anyone I've ever met who was a Muslim was a peaceful natured person ,very intelligent and seriously sound, I'm looking at you Mohammed. I've no problem with Muslims or any other faith being part of the fabric of Ireland.

I do not want a UK situation here 100%, there is no model to avoid it, so we need to prevent it. That goes for any groups that live here, including French, Spanish German and English. I also don’t want my part of Wicklow becoming part of Dublin because it has cheaper houses and the Dubs only mix with their own types.... again human nature..

I don't think Muslim priests go far enough to condemn the acts of terror, and put far more effort into playing the victim of Islamophobia then condemning acts like what we have seen. At the same time we dont see western leaders coming out about car bombs in Baghdad that kill 100s or fires in russia. I don't know what to think any more so avoid news, but the world is a scary place and a lot of effort comes from both sides into making that possible which instils fear and hate speech from both populations .

#Confused