Is Islam right for Ireland?

Rory28

RustyNut wrote: »

What's your point? All I see is a bunch of extremist religious nutters running for election. That's the way democracy works.

The point is this is exactly what everyone here is warning about. They are trying to implement Sharia law in Belgium and segregate the sexes.

Brae100

Just got this message from my child's school about their open day tomorrow.

murphthesmurf

RustyNut wrote: »

I'm far from trying to shut anyone down, there are some posters on this thread with views I would be in complete disagreement with but whose views I would respect as they are thought out well informed opinions, Wibbs and klaz spring to mind.

On the other hand there are the extremists who would have more in common with ISIS than any freedom respecting democrat in their hatred and bigotry. They are happy to post blatant lies and bullsh1t of the highest order that can be refuted with a 30 second search on google. The more of this bull that gets posted the better as it allowed reasonable people to see these posts for the ridiculous extremist bile that they are, so carry on lads, I for one get a laugh out of this kind of stuff.

I efited my post to remove the incorrect information regarding Muslim birth rate

Carlos Orange

Coroners in the UK are now legally required to give preferential treatment to Muslims and Jews. Apparently processing people in the order they arrive is discriminatory.

How would people feel about this being enforced in Ireland?

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/apr/27/london-coroners-cab-rank-policy-ruled-discriminatory

The_Kew_Tour

Brae100 wrote: »

Just got this message from my child's school about their open day tomorrow.

Where is that?

Gravelly

psinno wrote: »

Coroners in the UK are now legally required to give preferential treatment to Muslims and Jews. Apparently processing people in the order they arrive is discriminatory.

How would people feel about this being enforced in Ireland?

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/apr/27/london-coroners-cab-rank-policy-ruled-discriminatory

Plenty on here that would defend it. Apparently they see no irony in insisting that muslims need special treatment to avoid them "becoming radicalised" (i.e. killing us all) while at the same time insisting that muslims are just like the rest of us!

Odhinn

Gravelly wrote: »

The cry of "it's all hyperbole and it's the same as the nazis with the Jews" is all well and good, but here are some facts, without any hyperbole:

I was actually referring to European anti-semtism, which has a very long and deep rooted history. Blaming it all on the germans is something of a cop-out.

Gravelly wrote: »

An entire state, with a population of 8 million, was set up in the name of Islam in 2014, that slaughtered thousands of people, took tens of thousands as slaves, and took the combined armies of several states, and three years of extraordinary bloodshed, to subdue

Could happen again. The population weren't, afaik, consulted.

In 2017, there were an average of 2 large-scale Islamic terrorism attacks EVERY MONTH, leading to the violent deaths of over 450 people

Gravelly wrote: »

Muslims in France, Germany, and Sweden are physically attacking and even killing Jews

The threat to European democracy from Islam is not hyperbole, but is a simple fact, demonstrated time and again.

"German police have recorded more than 450 asylum-related assaults on politicians and aid workers in 2016."
http://www.dw.com/en/hundreds-of-right-wing-asylum-related-attacks-in-2016/a-36377046

...and theres been a goood number of attacks on refugees in Sweden too, if I recall.

murphthesmurf

RustyNut wrote: »

The other cheek of the extremist arse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5rHx9iKPQ

Some reasonable people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4_JJgeBPA8

Why don't you condemn the people in the first video? Why do you just instead deflect with a video of some far right skin heads. Again 2 wrongs don't make a right.

K.Flyer

K.Flyer wrote: »

Here is the thing I do not understand after watching something like that.
If they have so much Hatred for the U.K. and detest the system and laws, why the hell are they still living there. Why don't they just pack up and move to a country that is more in keeping with their beliefs and culture.

Money. Standard of living. Benefits to they themselves.

You can love the benefits of living in a particular country while professing your hate of what the country stands for. Are you really expecting logic in how people really behave, when most people act illogically daily?

But it really comes down to loving all the benefits that the UK or other countries provide but hating that it's not under your control. You're not choosing who gets those benefits, and you really don't want to be treated equally with everyone else, so you seek to change the system.

I fully expect that those who want to bring more Islamic culture/rules/laws into Europe expect not to lose the benefits of being a first world nation. They don't see that the freedoms we have available are a large part of Western success...

My other question then is what is their motive for staying if they hate the place so much?

Probably because you get a lot more understanding hating a culture while living within that culture. You really should meet western expats living in Asian countries while out drinking, and listen to them tear the country/culture apart with their gripes. It's actually pretty common wherever you go to hear people moan about the country they live in. I try to avoid it as much as possible, but sometimes it's unavoidable especially if all your friends believe the same thing.

But second, and more importantly, going home is a bad option. Living in Ireland isn't a good option for me. Never has been. I've consistently made more money, saved more money, had better intimate relationships etc abroad than in Ireland. That doesn't mean I'm disrespecting Ireland.... it just means my life is better abroad. Experience has proved this.

For Muslims, in most cases, they're from pretty dodgy countries with extremely high levels of corruption, and a severe lack of money for most people. And in these kind of countries, money is its own God. By staying in the West, they have much better opportunities to make money, and to avoid having to lose it to corruption. Throw in the possibility of being executed or arrested by the police for all manner of made-up crimes, and the west is a pretty good place to stay.

Because it obviously has nothing to do with societal integration, so what is their agenda?

Ahh well... that's the million euro question. I've no idea. [and i have tried to find out]

RustyNut

Rory28 wrote: »

The point is this is exactly what everyone here is warning about. They are trying to implement Sharia law in Belgium and segregate the sexes.

They are trying to get elected, with the extremist views they hold it just won't happen, that's the way democracy works.

To quote another vile racist, Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Odhinn

Brae100 wrote: »

Just got this message from my child's school about their open day tomorrow.

Careful now. One bite of that and its veils and sharia law time.

Odhinn

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Why don't you condemn the people in the first video? Why do you just instead deflect with a video of some far right skin heads. Again 2 wrongs don't make a right.

...but examining nothing but one sides wrongs gives a distorted picture of things.

AllForIt

K.Flyer wrote: »

Here is the thing I do not understand after watching something like that.
If they have so much Hatred for the U.K. and detest the system and laws, why the hell are they still living there. Why don't they just pack up and move to a country that is more in keeping with their beliefs and culture.

Because it's inspired by their religion I'd imagine which has noting to do with country physical boundaries.

I'm not religious myself but I understand the psychology of religion. One has found a place where one feels they have life all sorted out in their head but what do you do then when your so certain about the origins of life, it's meaning and how one is expected to conduct themselves in life. Only thing left to do is convert all the disbelievers so that one can fell the ultimate smugness and satisfaction in their own beliefs. Serious issues of psychology going on there.

I always thought one had free will to make mistakes in life and be judged at the pearly gates so it's a big incongruous to me that some would demand others to behave in a certain way, in dress, in alcohol consumption etc. Unless of course they know full well, deep down, that it's all a load of bollix.

Richard Hillman

A population majority is not needed for a Country to fall into the hands of a party like the Islam Party in Belgium. With countries party allegiances becoming more divided, more and more countries are consolidating themselves to a long term future of coalition and rainbow governments.

Belgium themselves have had massive issues in even trying to form a government. It would not take much of a united Islamic vote in future decades for Belgium to be lost to the Islamists. Belgium will be lost in our lifetime.

Whilst the Islam Party gain Traction in Belgium, it will feed to Nederlands, Sweden and Germany.

There will be a time where we will be looking towards our Friends in the U.S and Russia to help liberate the continent again.

murphthesmurf

RustyNut wrote: »

What's your point? All I see is a bunch of extremist religious nutters running for election. That's the way democracy works.

What is the point? Well, the argument from your side has been that it is only a small minority of Muslims who are bad and that the rest want to integrate harmlessly. Well the above shows there is a different pattern emerging in Belgium. They have 2 councillors elected already and are now putting forward a lot more. You get elected by a majority, not a minority.

RustyNut

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Why don't you condemn the people in the first video? Why do you just instead deflect with a video of some far right skin heads. Again 2 wrongs don't make a right.

who do you think I was referring to when I said the other cheek of the extremist arse.

Just for you I think that Islamic extremists are vile creatures who should be detected and punished to the full extent of the law for any crimes they commit. However just because the extremists are muslim doesn't mean Muslims are extremists.

topper75

No greater smile than the smile on a kid's face knowing the cow it is eating was facing SE when it was fully conscious at the moment of having its throat cut.

Except perhaps the smug multicultural smile on the head teacher's face, when they consider what a virtuous inclusive person they are.

uli84

Yes it is right, there should be prohibition in Ireland

murphthesmurf

RustyNut wrote: »

who do you think I was referring to when I said the other cheek of the extremist arse.

Just for you I think that Islamic extremists are vile creatures who should be detected and punished to the full extent of the law for any crimes they commit. However just because the extremists are muslim doesn't mean Muslims are extremists.

But this kind of deflection is like the behaviour of a child when the teacher catches them doing wrong in class. 'It was just me Ms, Tommy was doing it too'.
Why not just own up that it is worrying and not something we want to see progress. You may get called a hateful bigot but sticks and stones msy break my bones and all that.

murphthesmurf

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Imagine their reaction when they find out who ran against Theresa May in the last election. The intergalactic spacelord Lord Buckethead received 249 votes. I'm not adverse to his bicycle campaign.

Deflection again! Really?
To justify a genuine serious Islamic Sharia party winning seats in Belgium, you counter with the Monster Raving Lunatic party getting 249 votes. People don't vote for them seriously, it is a joke or protest vote against the main stream usual suspects. Nobody, including the party themselves, would actually want to see them in power. The same cannotbe said for the Islamic party in Belgium.
Why can't you just condemn it or accept that it is worrying.
Again the kind of behaviour I'd expect to see in a school yard

Odhinn

uli84 wrote: »

Yes it is right, there should be prohibition in Ireland

It would certainly boost the fortunes of the indigenous entrepenurial sector.

RustyNut

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Why don't you condemn the people in the first video? Why do you just instead deflect with a video of some far right skin heads. Again 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Would you mind quoting where I condemned one and not the other, just so people reading the thread can see if I am being biased or disingenuous.

wakka12

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A population majority is not needed for a Country to fall into the hands of a party like the Islam Party in Belgium. With countries party allegiances becoming more divided, more and more countries are consolidating themselves to a long term future of coalition and rainbow governments.

Belgium themselves have had massive issues in even trying to form a government. It would not take much of a united Islamic vote in future decades for Belgium to be lost to the Islamists. Belgium will be lost in our lifetime.

Whilst the Islam Party gain Traction in Belgium, it will feed to Nederlands, Sweden and Germany.

There will be a time where we will be looking towards our Friends in the U.S and Russia to help liberate the continent again.

What does belgium will be lost mean exactly? You believe the state of belgium will cease exist during our lifetime , due to muslim population growth?
I have many huge reservations about the islamic religion, but this seems like hyperbole

murphthesmurf

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Saw that Video of EDL lads. Scumbags whole lot of them.

Great vertue signalling, what are your thoughts on the other video of the Muslims marching chanting "kill British police" because they arrested the wife of a suicide bomber?
I can't understand how you could completely ignore the one video, then condemn the other.
I don't have a problem saying the EDL in the video were scum and I don't have a problem saying the Muslims in the other video were scum. You found it more important to signal your virtues, why?

Captain Obvious

Brae100 wrote: »

Just got this message from my child's school about their open day tomorrow.

Horrifying!!!!

murphthesmurf

Odhinn wrote: »

...but examining nothing but one sides wrongs gives a distorted picture of things.

The thread is about whether Islam is right for Ireland, not whether the EDL is right for Ireland. It was deflection.

malinheader

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Horrifying!!!!

Agree. If they don't like it they should bring there own.

Grayson

topper75 wrote: »

No greater smile than the smile on a kid's face knowing the cow it is eating was facing SE when it was fully conscious at the moment of having its throat cut.

Except perhaps the smug multicultural smile on the head teacher's face, when they consider what a virtuous inclusive person they are.

Do you always explain to a kid the way their food was raised and killed. Because a journey to KFC must be horrific in your family.

As a society we are more than willing to accept that animals are mistreated when it comes to food.

gw80

topper75 wrote: »

No greater smile than the smile on a kid's face knowing the cow it is eating was facing SE when it was fully conscious at the moment of having its throat cut.

Except perhaps the smug multicultural smile on the head teacher's face, when they consider what a virtuous inclusive person they are.

Whats more is the parents of the muslim children in the school probably never asked for halal meat in the first place

2 Scoops

Lovely.

murphthesmurf

RustyNut wrote: »

Would you mind quoting where I condemned one and not the other, just so people reading the thread can see if I am being biased or disingenuous.

That is the point, you didn't condemn any. Why couldn't you condemn them, why did you just choose to post another video just to show that someone else did something naughty once too. What good is that.

Captain Obvious

malinheader wrote: »

Agree. If they don't like it they should bring there own.

Yeah. But just try telling that to the guy who posted it. I'd say he'd wretch at the thought of being told to bring his own burgers.

murphthesmurf

Grayson wrote: »

Do you always explain to a kid the way their food was raised and killed. Because a journey to KFC must be horrific in your family.

As a society we are more than willing to accept that animals are mistreated when it comes to food.

But we reduce animal duffering where possible whilst still being able to eat meat. Halal takes us back a few decades. One step forward, 2 steps back. If you come to Ireland you eat meat slsughtered our way, end of.

wexie

murphthesmurf wrote: »

But we reduce animal duffering where possible whilst still being able to eat meat. Halal takes us back a few decades. One step forward, 2 steps back. If you come to Ireland you eat meat slsughtered our way, end of.

So no jews either then I'm guessing right?

gw80

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Yeah. But just try telling that to the guy who posted it. I'd say he'd wretch at the thought of being told to bring his own burgers.

So you think an irish guy should bring his own food to a day out in an irish school, in Ireland,
So that a minority of muslim children can be catered for by an irish school?

What difference does it make to the kids eating burgers how the animals were killed. They taste the same.

wexie

gw80 wrote: »

So you think an irish guy should bring his own food to a day out in an irish school, in Ireland,
So that a minority of muslim children can be catered for by an irish school?

......or (here's a novel idea) he could just eat the halal burger?

I know it's pretty radical but eh....

gw80

bubblypop wrote: »

What difference does it make to the kids eating burgers how the animals were killed. They taste the same.

Yes because its about how the burgers taste,

murphthesmurf

wexie wrote: »

So no jews either then I'm guessing right?

No animals slaughtered in the Jewish traditional way NO. If you come to Ireland then you eat meat slaughtered our way, no matter where you are from.

malinheader

wexie wrote: »

......or (here's a novel idea) he could just eat the halal burger?

I know it's pretty radical but eh....

Here's another idea. If they don't like the burgers they are being given just don't eat them.

The_Kew_Tour

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Great vertue signalling, what are your thoughts on the other video of the Muslims marching chanting "kill British police" because they arrested the wife of a suicide bomber?
I can't understand how you could completely ignore the one video, then condemn the other.
I don't have a problem saying the EDL in the video were scum and I don't have a problem saying the Muslims in the other video were scum. You found it more important to signal your virtues, why?

Ah come on now. Read my posts throughout the thread...

I'm not favour of violence end of.

Hence why I have my reservations about where country and Europe is going

wexie

murphthesmurf wrote: »

No animals slaughtered in the Jewish traditional way NO. If you come to Ireland then you eat meat slaughtered our way, no matter where you are from.

oh okay....

what about Guiness? that compulsory as well?

gw80

wexie wrote: »

......or (here's a novel idea) he could just eat the halal burger?

I know it's pretty radical but eh....

Why, this is Ireland, we are thousands of miles from the middle east .

The_Kew_Tour

gw80 wrote: »

So you think an irish guy should bring his own food to a day out in an irish school, in Ireland,
So that a minority of muslim children can be catered for by an irish school?

Especially as Muslim population only makes up 1%

wexie

gw80 wrote: »

Why, this is Ireland, we are thousands of miles from the middle east .

So?

By that 'logic' you should outlaw pizza, pasta, chinese food, falafel, wine, vodka....

Captain Obvious

gw80 wrote: »

So you think an irish guy should bring his own food to a day out in an irish school, in Ireland,
So that a minority of muslim children can be catered for by an irish school?

If the thought of eating something different to what's on the menu disgusts him so much then yes.

jmayo

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Well there was a measure of truth to that wasn't there? In the sense that maybe 25% of babies born were born to Catholic families versus 65% to Protestant families in 1921 Northern Ireland. In 2011 that figure is 45% to not quite 30%. Demographics can change and change quite significantly.

But that could never ever happen with muslims. :rolleyes:

RustyNut wrote: »

They are trying to get elected, with the extremist views they hold it just won't happen, that's the way democracy works.

To quote another vile racist, Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Maybe you should read something before commenting on it ?

They have already elected politicians and they are broadening their base.

BTW are you insinuating that murphthesmurf is a vile racist with the "To quote another vile racist" comment.

RustyNut wrote: »

who do you think I was referring to when I said the other cheek of the extremist arse.

Just for you I think that Islamic extremists are vile creatures who should be detected and punished to the full extent of the law for any crimes they commit. However just because the extremists are muslim doesn't mean Muslims are extremists.

But what is a muslim extremist/fundamentalist ?

Is it someone that wants to impose an islamic caliphate?
Is it someone that wants to kill homosexuals, kill adulterers, kill apostates, slaughter anyone that makes fun of the prophet, impose full sharia law, kill those who will not convert to islam, force women to wear a burka and have secondary rights to men ?

Where exactly do people fit in the chart if they just want homosexuality made illegal, have segregation of the sexes in mosques/schools/gyms/swimming pools, want women to wear "modest" clothes, want to ban alcohol, have some sharia law, and forbid anyone to make fun of the prophet ?

To you and most of your like minded colleagues if this last description was added to a christian you would call them a christian fundamentalist.

But a lot of that actually describes what is lovingly termed by some a moderate muslim.

gw80

wexie wrote: »

So?

By that 'logic' you should outlaw pizza, pasta, chinese food, falafel, wine, vodka....

Thats not really like for like now is it,
I never said anything about outlawing halal now did I, they can have their halal all they want in the privacy of their own homes or groups, I dont really care, fill your boots.
If this is just a once off thing to highlight other cultures and the likes I'll get over it, but it stinks of virtue signalling, please like us, aren't we ever so progressive BS.
But it also sends out a signal of weakness to the more extreme leaning members of the muslim communities,

Captain Obvious

gw80 wrote: »

Thats not really like for like now is it,
I never said anything about outlawing halal now did I, they can have their halal all they want in the privacy of their own homes or groups, I dont really care, fill your boots.
If this is just a once off thing to highlight other cultures and the likes I'll get over it, but it stinks of virtue signalling, please like us, aren't we ever so progressive BS.
But it also sends out a signal of weakness to the more extreme leaning members of the muslim communities,

How do you feel about vegetarians and vegans?

jmayo

murphthesmurf wrote: »

No animals slaughtered in the Jewish traditional way NO. If you come to Ireland then you eat meat slaughtered our way, no matter where you are from.

Here is the thing.

I bet if someone suggested kosher food for the Jewish kids there would be freaking uproar and it wouldn't be from the so called right wingers.

Oh no, it would be from the anti Israeli lefties.

The Jewish population of Europe is being driven out and yet there isn't a whimper out of some so called liberals.

In fact in the UK anti semitism is rife in the second largest political party.