Is Islam right for Ireland?

Gravelly

Odhinn wrote: »

Gravelly wrote: »

The cry of "it's all hyperbole and it's the same as the nazis with the Jews" is all well and good, but here are some facts, without any hyperbole:

I was actually referring to European anti-semtism, which has a very long and deep rooted history. Blaming it all on the germans is something of a cop-out.



Could happen again. The population weren't, afaik, consulted.

In 2017, there were an average of 2 large-scale Islamic terrorism attacks EVERY MONTH, leading to the violent deaths of over 450 people




"German police have recorded more than 450 asylum-related assaults on politicians and aid workers in 2016."
http://www.dw.com/en/hundreds-of-right-wing-asylum-related-attacks-in-2016/a-36377046

...and theres been a goood number of attacks on refugees in Sweden too, if I recall.

So your answer to the problem of islamic violence (which you were downplaying up until now) is "shure aren't others at it as well"

Sums up the utter moral bankruptcy of you and your fellow travellers to a T.

gw80

Captain Obvious wrote: »

How do you feel about vegetarians and vegans?

What kind of nonsense is this.
"What about vegans" "what about pizza"

Ill tell you what i think about vegans, the same as i feel about muslims who live in ireland, who wish to eat halal meat,
I DONT GIVE A FLYING ****, sort yourself out.

Whats next, my FEELINGS on haggis, or the sammi people of Lapland

gw80

gw80 wrote: »

Yes because its about how the burgers taste,

It is to the kids

Captain Obvious

gw80 wrote: »

What kind of nonsense is this.
"What about vegans" "what about pizza"

Ill tell you what i think about vegans, the same as i feel about muslims who live in ireland, who wish to eat halal meat,
I DONT GIVE A FLYING ****, sort yourself out.

Whats next, my FEELINGS on haggis, or the sammi people of Lapland

What's nonsense is getting upset because the meat in your burger was butchered a particular way.

Brae100

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What's nonsense is getting upset because the meat in your burger was butchered a particular way.

Exactly. Now re-read your post and apply that logic to Muslims.

malinheader

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What's nonsense is getting upset because the meat in your burger was butchered a particular way.

Totally agree .glad your coming round. They should eat the burgers the school provide or leave it without making a fuss.

surrender monkey

This is why I don't think Islam is right for Ireland or Europe....

https://youtu.be/Y597ZkuhhsA

It's a ridiculous notion for us in the West to believe that our culture is 'best' and that as soon as people step onto European soil and receive the benefits that they will see that our culture and values are 'better' and behave accordingly. It just isn't going to happen. If you've been brought up believing that women should be segregated and homosexuality should be illegal and all the other tenants of sharia and customs of Islam then you aren't going to change your views because you you changed your location.

Captain Obvious

Brae100 wrote: »

Exactly. Now re-read your post and apply that logic to Muslims.

I do. If Muslims were giving out about meat at an event not being to their liking I'd be saying the same. If you don't like it then don't eat it. Although why a non-muslim would have an issue with eating halal meat is beyond me.

masculinist

I think its' extremely significant that despite some members of the forum (obviously with an agenda) being obsessed with the topic enough to ask ridiculously pedantic questions and language police , not one of them has ever tried to make the argument that Islam is right for Ireland. This is because it's an impossible and unwinnable argument.

Richard Hillman

wakka12 wrote: »

What does belgium will be lost mean exactly? You believe the state of belgium will cease exist during our lifetime , due to muslim population growth?
I have many huge reservations about the islamic religion, but this seems like hyperbole

Lost as in territory for the great ideological war of our time.

masculinist

masculinist wrote: »

I think its' extremely significant that despite some members of the forum (obviously with an agenda) being obsessed with the topic enough to ask ridiculously pedantic questions and language police , not one of them has ever tried to make the argument that Islam is right for Ireland. This is because it's an impossible and unwinnable argument.

No religion should dictate a countries laws.
No country should dictate religious freedom.

Brae100

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I do. If Muslims were giving out about meat at an event not being to their liking I'd be saying the same. If you don't like it then don't eat it. Although why a non-muslim would have an issue with eating halal meat is beyond me.

Where to even start deconstructing that argument! There's no point, you'll just deflect.

Here is the issue for me. I don't particularly care about Halal or Kosher, that's not the real problem. The problem is that this is indicative of the lack of willingness to integrate. They want to impose their culture and traditions on us and supplant our culture with theirs. 1% of the population and already Islam is starting to encroach and affect other people. What happens when they hit 5%, 10%?

Captain Obvious

masculinist wrote: »

I think its' extremely significant that despite some members of the forum (obviously with an agenda) being obsessed with the topic enough to ask ridiculously pedantic questions and language police , not one of them has ever tried to make the argument that Islam is right for Ireland. This is because it's an impossible and unwinnable argument.

No religion is right for Ireland, Muslim, Jewish or Christian. A completely secular state is the ideal. That doesn't mean people who practice those religions aren't right for Ireland.

Captain Obvious

Brae100 wrote: »

Where to even start deconstructing that argument! There's no point, you'll just deflect.

Here is the issue for me. I don't particularly care about Halal or Kosher, that's not the real problem. The problem is that this is indicative of the lack of willingness to integrate. They want to impose their culture and traditions on us and supplant our culture with theirs. 1% of the population and already Islam is starting to encroach and affect other people. What happens when they hit 5%, 10%?

You don't want them to integrate, you want them to assimilate.

dr.fuzzenstein

gw80 wrote: »

What kind of nonsense is this.
"What about vegans" "what about pizza"

Ill tell you what i think about vegans, the same as i feel about muslims who live in ireland, who wish to eat halal meat,
I DONT GIVE A FLYING ****, sort yourself out.

Whats next, my FEELINGS on haggis, or the sammi people of Lapland

Foodrage is a terrible thing.

masculinist

bubblypop wrote: »

No religion should dictate a countries laws.
No country should dictate religious freedom.

No country should give up it's own values and rule of law for a religion. Thats happening right now all over Europe. When a religion becomes synonymous in peoples minds with violence then it steps over the line.


Germany is a great example .

They dont recognise Scientology but they recognise Islam - because their so called principles bow in fear to violence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7133867.stm

malinheader

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I do. If Muslims were giving out about meat at an event not being to their liking I'd be saying the same. If you don't like it then don't eat it. Although why a non-muslim would have an issue with eating halal meat is beyond me.

This is how it all starts little things like this and then it grows. We're there not schools that had to remove crucifixs off walls and could not display the words happy Christmas. That's why it doesn't work.

murphthesmurf

wexie wrote: »

oh okay....

what about Guiness? that compulsory as well?

What has Guiness got to do with a barbaric way of slaughtering animals? Are there animals in Guiness? I'm a cider drinker myself.

Captain Obvious

masculinist wrote: »

No country should give up it's own values and rule of law for a religion. Thats happening right now all over Europe. When a religion becomes synonymous in peoples minds with violence then it steps over the line.

It's happening in Ireland. Our laws are hamstrung by the Christian restrictions in our constitution. A vastly bigger issue than halal burgers in my own opinion.

masculinist wrote: »

Germany is a great example .

They dont recognise Scientology but they recognise Islam - because their so called principles bow in fear to violence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7133867.stm

No, it's because one is established for thousands of years and the other is not,

malinheader wrote: »

This is how it all starts little things like this and then it grows. We're there not schools that had to remove crucifixs off walls and could not display the words happy Christmas. That's why it doesn't work.

Why would I, a secularist, care if schools had to stop using religious symbols?

gw80

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Foodrage is a terrible thing.

Ha, no food rage here, i can asure you of that, i will eat that ****, halal, kosher, vegetarian, i dont care,
Now if you said idiot rage then yea, you might be closer to the mark.

dr.fuzzenstein

masculinist wrote: »

I think its' extremely significant that despite some members of the forum (obviously with an agenda) being obsessed with the topic enough to ask ridiculously pedantic questions and language police , not one of them has ever tried to make the argument that Islam is right for Ireland. This is because it's an impossible and unwinnable argument.

So what is right for Ireland?
An anti religious secular culture police that endures strict adherence to the state and atheism? Will there be a list of approved religions people are allowed to follow?
What guidelines will there be? Will people be punished for wearing religious symbols or for using religious expressions in public?
Soviet Russia right there.
Nobody wants a caliphate, but nobody wants a totalitarian secular dictatorship either.

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

No religion should dictate a countries laws.
No country should dictate religious freedom.

What is your definition of religious freedom ?

Islam in it's most pure form does not believe in or tolerate religious freedom.

Should someone be free to harass others who do not conform to their religious ideas?

That is exactly what is happening in the video above showing how women are now treated in certain Parisian suburbs.

Should someone be able to dictate that everyone else should have to eat the food dictated by their religion ?

Should a religion be able to dictate how public swimming pools and school organised trips to swimming polls be segregated on gender ?

AFAIK some parents tried this in Switzerland not so long ago.
We had a leading muslim spokesman in Ireland talking about segregation of girls in Irish school system.

And the most ironic thing of all is that in the vast majority of muslim dominated states religion does dictate the legal structure in the state.

And it is adherents to this religion from some of these states that you and others want to move here.

malinheader

malinheader wrote: »

We're there not schools that had to remove crucifixs off walls and could not display the words happy Christmas. That's why it doesn't work.

No loss. State funded schools shouldn't be religious

Beechwoodspark

From what I understand, halal slaughter is practiced in many Irish locations?

Brae100

bubblypop wrote: »

No loss. State funded schools shouldn't be religious

And yet my daughter's school is offering Halal only burgers at their open day tomorrow and you have defended this!

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

What is your definition of religious freedom ?

Islam in it's most pure form does not believe in or tolerate religious freedom.

Should someone be free to harass others who do not conform to their religious ideas?

That is exactly what is happening in the video above showing how women are now treated in certain Parisian suburbs.

Should someone be able to dictate that everyone else should have to eat the food dictated by their religion ?

Should a religion be able to dictate how public swimming pools and school organised trips to swimming polls be segregated on gender ?

AFAIK some parents tried this in Switzerland not so long ago.
We had a leading muslim spokesman in Ireland talking about segregation of girls in Irish school system.

And the most ironic thing of all is that in the vast majority of muslim dominated states religion does dictate the legal structure in the state.

And it is adherents to this religion from some of these states that you and others want to move here.

Religious freedom is the freedom to practice Your Own religion.
State laws always come first.

Brae100

Brae100 wrote: »

And yet my daughter's school is offering Halal only burgers at their open day tomorrow and you have defended this!

What kind of school is it? & does it really matter how the cow was killed, you're gonna eat it anyway.
Schools should be apart from religion. This country has a long way to go.
But as far as I am aware, most meat in Ireland that is slaughtered here is halal anyway, so you probably eat it yourself.

Pepefrogok

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Horrifying!!!!

Yet if it was any other religion being forces on the wider community like no option prayer etc you would be genuinely bleeting about how horrifying it was! I think it's cowardly, your scared of provoking the Muslims so will accept any bending over backwards for Islam but if them followers of the peace loving hippy force their religion on society in anyway time for rage.

Brae100

bubblypop wrote: »

What kind of school is it? & does it really matter how the cow was killed, you're gonna eat it anyway.
Schools should be apart from religion. This country has a long way to go.
But as far as I am aware, most meat in Ireland that is slaughtered here is halal anyway, so you probably eat it yourself.

It's an Educate Together school. We don't have secular, or non-denominational schools in Ireland. Educate Together's multi-denominational model is the best we have.

By offering Halal only burgers, that is religion encroaching on our educational system and it has no place in our schools.

I don't know where you got the idea that most meat in Ireland is Halal, that's absolutely not true. Perhaps you are confusing the fact that a lot of European Halal meats originate from an Irish producer?

malinheader

bubblypop wrote: »

What kind of school is it? & does it really matter how the cow was killed, you're gonna eat it anyway.
Schools should be apart from religion. This country has a long way to go.
But as far as I am aware, most meat in Ireland that is slaughtered here is halal anyway, so you probably eat it yourself.

And what would be wrong with eating it. It's not me who has the problem with this. But why should I have to change my ways to accommodate a religious belief which you say schools should be apart from.

aqn29swlgbmiu4

Regardless of whether you are a practising Christian or not, you are culturally Christian.
In the West, all our laws are derived from Christs teachings and the bible, a stand out being the thought that God made us in his image, and there is God in all of us. That's where the notion of equality comes from. Have you seen that idea of equality anywhere that is not touched by European/Christian influence?

Where else do women have the freedoms that they have here in the West? I cannot comprehend how people can shut their eyes to the catastrophy on the horizon. Nothing good comes from that religion, or its followers. They literally cut the clits of little girls FFS! If it was men getting their co*ks cut off and sewn up, there would be a very different story!

At what stage will Europe (Germany) break its back from bending over to accommodate people who are the image of the opposite of a free, liberal society? Name a single other religious group that has caused as much havoc in Europe over the past 5 years? My gosh

Captain Obvious

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Yet if it was any other religion being forces on the wider community like no option prayer etc you would be genuinely bleeting about how horrifying it was! I think it's cowardly, your scared of provoking the Muslims so will accept any bending over backwards for Islam but if them followers of the peace loving hippy force their religion on society in anyway time for rage.

But it isn't forcing a religion on anyone. Christians can eat Halal meat. It's just catering to the largest amount of people.

Brae100

Brae100 wrote: »

It's an Educate Together school. We don't have secular, or non-denominational schools in Ireland. Educate Together's multi-denominational model is the best we have.

By offering Halal only burgers, that is religion encroaching on our educational system and it has no place in our schools.

I don't know where you got the idea that most meat in Ireland is Halal, that's absolutely not true. Perhaps you are confusing the fact that a lot of European Halal meats originate from an Irish producer?

I don't believe state schools should have religion involved. I don't believe they should have religious symbols in their buildings.
But I have no problem with the children attending wearing chains with crucifix on them, or whatever clothes they see fit.
I don't see the need for halal burgers at school, but seeing as they taste the same, I don't think it makes much difference.
Yes, maybe I am wrong about the halal slaughter in Ireland, but the animals are stunned before killing. Not that it makes any difference to me, you kill them to eat them.

malinheader

Captain Obvious wrote: »

But it isn't forcing a religion on anyone. Christians can eat Halal meat. It's just catering to the largest amount of people.

Why what's the breakdown of religions in the school or did I miss that bit

Beechwoodspark

malinheader wrote: »

Why what's the breakdown of religions in the school or did I miss that bit

A lot of Christians object to eating halal. My neighbours, devout Catholics from Poland originally-lovely people-always ask if it is halal if they are eating out and they avoid it.

How do I know this-they asked at my brother in laws wedding and were delighted when told the beef was not halal. Win win for everyone.

Brae100

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't believe state schools should have religion involved. I don't believe they should have religious symbols in their buildings.
But I have no problem with the children attending wearing chains with crucifix on them, or whatever clothes they see fit.
I don't see the need for halal burgers at school, but seeing as they taste the same, I don't think it makes much difference.
Yes, maybe I am wrong about the halal slaughter in Ireland, but the animals are stunned before killing. Not that it makes any difference to me, you kill them to eat them.

I agree with nearly all of that, except that I think that the introduction of Halal meat to suit a minority is wrong. I think you are currently serving in an Islamic country. Imagine if you sent your kids to the local majority Islamic school and they had an open day and you and the few other non Muslim parents demanded that they served only non-Halal meat just to pander to you. You would be told to get lost. This is my problem. The minority are demanding that we succumb to their demands and the SJWs here are only too happy to oblige.

Captain Obvious

malinheader wrote: »

Why what's the breakdown of religions in the school or did I miss that bit

Doesn't matter. More groups are included with halal

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

A lot of Christians object to eating halal. My neighbours, devout Catholics from Poland originally-lovely people-always ask if it is halal if they are eating out and they avoid it.

How do I know this-they asked at my brother in laws wedding and were delighted when told the beef was not halal. Win win for everyone.

But that's not due to their religion,it's simply preference, like a vegan.

Beechwoodspark

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Doesn't matter. More groups are included with halal



But that's not due to their religion,it's simply preference, like a vegan.

They are not vegetarian. I think they object to halal for animal welfare grounds. Not sure

malinheader

It matters to me for one. Anyhow I'm away for a bacon burger before there totally outlawed.

2 Scoops

Still the best video on this subject

Brae100

2 Scoops wrote: »

Still the best video on this subject

I like Douglas Murray, but that is a terrible video.

thebull85

Brae100 wrote: »

And yet my daughter's school is offering Halal only burgers at their open day tomorrow and you have defended this!

Name the school please, i cant believe this is actually legit.

JohnMc1

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's happening in Ireland. Our laws are hamstrung by the Christian restrictions in our constitution. A vastly bigger issue than halal burgers in my own opinion.

If we were that hamstrung by Christianity then we wouldn't have been allowed to vote on Gay Marriage a few years ago and we sure as hell wouldn't be voting on abortion in a few weeks.

I love how how the Islam defenders here are really reaching to try and make Christianity out to be worse so we can gratefully welcome Islam onto Ireland.

conorhal

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If we were that hamstrung by Christianity then we wouldn't have been allowed to vote on Gay Marriage a few years ago and we sure as hell wouldn't be voting on abortion in a few weeks.

I love how how the Islam defenders here are really reaching to try and make Christianity out to be worse so we can gratefully welcome Islam onto Ireland.

That's not even really what this thread is about, our society, based on culture, like all cultures is ever evolving and as a society we have a constant discourse about our values and our beliefs. This thread is largely about what happens when an invasive belief enters a societal ecosystem.
Sometimes a belief system is adopted by that society because it brings benefits to it, see gay the gay marriage referendum. Society saw it as a positive and beneficial addition to its growth.
Then there are other ideologies, they have nothing to offer, like cancer has nothing to offer a well body.
They spread by propagation of themselves alone and by weakening the body (physical or societal). They exploit the weakness of societal immune systems like our compassion or immigration policy to metastasize and grow.
For a keen example of that just look at the Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country. It's a fascinating tale of how a cult took over a community that was painted as the bad guys for rejecting them, they tried to poison a whole town to influence an election.

Odhinn

gw80 wrote: »

So you think an irish guy should bring his own food to a day out in an irish school, in Ireland,
So that a minority of muslim children can be catered for by an irish school?

Have we established the veracity of that tweet?

Brae100

Odhinn wrote: »

Have we established the veracity of that tweet?

It wasn't a tweet. It was delivered via Messagecue, a message delivering system that is popular with schools. I will happily PM you the exact details of the message and school.

If you are doubting the message, then perhaps you agree that if true, it is worrying?

deco nate

bubblypop wrote: »

What kind of school is it? & does it really matter how the cow was killed, you're gonna eat it anyway.
Schools should be apart from religion. This country has a long way to go.
But as far as I am aware, most meat in Ireland that is slaughtered here is halal anyway, so you probably eat it yourself.

Most meat in Ireland is slaughtered as halal?! Were did you get this info?!
I find this post unbelievable bs.
I'd like to see a link to prove your post, thanks.

Edit :you do know what halal is, don't you?Don't you??
some skanger saying words over the animals before the throat is slit....Nice...that is not the main practice in Irish abattoirs.

deco nate

Captain Obvious wrote: »

But it isn't forcing a religion on anyone. Christians can eat Halal meat. It's just catering to the largest amount of people.

Pmsl, catering for the small minority in Ireland is more like.. But why not cater for vegans the largest growing section? Both hate bacon... Mmm, tasty bacon!

Captain Obvious

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If we were that hamstrung by Christianity then we wouldn't have been allowed to vote on Gay Marriage a few years ago and we sure as hell wouldn't be voting on abortion in a few weeks.

We had to vote because we were hamstrung and couldn't change the law otherwise. Do you know how the constitution works?

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I love how how the Islam defenders here are really reaching to try and make Christianity out to be worse so we can gratefully welcome Islam onto Ireland.

I'd rather both religions didn't exist. But I'm not going to worry about school kids eating halal burgers for now.

weldoninhio

Some posts on here are absolutely pathetic. If halal slaughter didn’t exist and the Pope came out today and said slitting the throat of an animal as prayers were being said was the only way meat was fit for consumption, the pro-halal posters in here would be having a meltdown.