Is Islam right for Ireland?

Wibbs

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's not a cop out. Your question assumes there is an issue in Europe caused by Muslim immigration doesn't it? I don't believe that. So how can I answer a question with that as it's premise?

There is zero point debating with you, because as far as you're concerned - and I noted it before - "there's nothing to see here" regarding issues around Muslim immigration and integration into Europe. Even the most right on liberals agree there are problems. They usually blame it on racism or government mismanagement(almost never the immigrants of course), but at least they acknowledge the problems.

topper75

Grayson wrote: »

Do you always explain to a kid the way their food was raised and killed. Because a journey to KFC must be horrific in your family.

As a society we are more than willing to accept that animals are mistreated when it comes to food.

Islam expressly demands that the animal is mistreated though. It insists that the humane option is foregone.

KFC are profit-driven, perhaps overly so - a different debate. For all their shortcomings, they aren't DELIBERATELY seeking to torture beasts because of a prescription given in some ancient book.

~So in answering the thread question - my answer would be No, this ideology is not right for our country. I found that notification intended for parents (possibly in a UK school) to be vile in its 'right-on' smugness. Such people who are hellbent on imposing a multicultural twist on things solely to cast themselves in a virtuous light must be challenged every step of the way.

Omackeral

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Islam is not right for Ireland. No religion is right for Ireland.

Ah ya couldn’t do it. The dare was to say the six words and nothing else. It’s so hard when you’re so right on I guess.

Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I'm sorry you are so upset by disagreement.

Disagreement? haha... seriously? For us to disagree, you would have to contribute something a lot more specific than you have so far. Arguing other peoples points without committing yourself is tiresome.

It's along the lines of constructive criticism being perfectly acceptable whereas bitching for the sake of bitching is annoying.

Captain Obvious

Wibbs wrote: »

There is zero point debating with you, because as far as you're concerned - and I noted it before - "there's nothing to see here" regarding issues around Muslim immigration and integration into Europe. Even the most right on liberals agree there are problems. They usually blame it on racism or government mismanagement(almost never the immigrants of course), but at least they acknowledge the problems.

You won't get much debate if you only try do it with people you agree with.

Omackeral wrote: »

Ah ya couldn’t do it. The dare was to say the six words and nothing else. It’s so hard when you’re so right on I guess.

Sorry, didn't notice the restriction.

Islam is not right for Ireland.

I hope you sleep better tonight.

Deleted User wrote: »

Disagreement? haha... seriously? For us to disagree, you would have to contribute something a lot more specific than you have so far. Arguing other peoples points without committing yourself is tiresome.

It's along the lines of constructive criticism being perfectly acceptable whereas bitching for the sake of bitching is annoying.

I've committed myself a number of times. I've stated clearly and outright what my position is.

Omackeral

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Islam is not right for Ireland.

Aye aye Captain.

taserfrank

Omackeral wrote: »

Aye aye Captain.

He's right in fairness, Islam is incompatible with a civilized society.

Omackeral

taserfrank wrote: »

He's right in fairness, Islam is incompatible with a civilized society.

You and Captain Obvious are bigoted racists for saying that.

baylah17

Omackeral wrote: »

taserfrank wrote: »

He's right in fairness, Islam is incompatible with a civilized society.

You and Captain Obvious are bigoted racists for saying that.

Because it is no more true of many strands of Islam than it is of many strands of Christianity

Danzy

baylah17 wrote: »

Because it is no more true of many strands of Islam than it is of many strands of Christianity

There are many strands but the main one is the most problematic.

baylah17

Danzy wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

Because it is no more true of many strands of Islam than it is of many strands of Christianity

There are many strands but the main one is the most problematic.

Which is the main one?

taserfrank

baylah17 wrote: »

Which is the main one?

The one that brutalizes and subjugates women, sharia law, the torture and murdering of homosexuals and 'apostates'.

baylah17

taserfrank wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

Which is the main one?

The one that brutalizes and subjugates women, sharia law, the torture and murdering of homosexuals and 'apostates'.

Ah
So you sweet feck all about Islam and it's many strands
So little you couldn't answer on dimple questioning of your posts without reverting to hyperbolic Islamaphobic tripe
Sad
Predictable but sad

taserfrank

baylah17 wrote: »

Ah
So you sweet feck all about Islam and it's many strands
So little you couldn't answer on dimple questioning of your posts without reverting to hyperbolic Islamaphobic tripe
Sad
Predictable but sad

Gee, I guess you are right, I must have made up all of those things.

Danzy

baylah17 wrote: »

Which is the main one?

Sunni Islam, in its pure form demonstrated in Wahhabism or Deobandism but any school of it is deeply regressive.


The faith has been tempered by many decent people in their practice but it is still a belief system created by a very brutal and murderous man whose psychopathic approach was codified.

The greatest victims of Islam are those who are stuck in it.

baylah17

taserfrank wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

Ah
So you sweet feck all about Islam and it's many strands
So little you couldn't answer on dimple questioning of your posts without reverting to hyperbolic Islamaphobic tripe
Sad
Predictable but sad

Gee, I guess you are right, I must have made up all of those things.

I could say the same things about many strands so Christianity
Let's start with the Russian Orthadox Church which has grown huge again in Putin's Russia

Wibbs

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You won't get much debate if you only try do it with people you agree with.

Your skill for shifting goalposts is well practiced. It's got nada to do with agreeing or not. It is hardly conjecture that issues have and are occurring in multicultural societies/areas within Europe and all sides in the debate acknowledge this(reasons and blame are apportioned differently). To deny this is... well I dunno what it is TBH. This maybe.

Captain Obvious

Wibbs wrote: »

Your skill for shifting goalposts is well practiced. It's got nada to do with agreeing or not. It is hardly conjecture that issues have and are occurring in multicultural societies/areas within Europe and all sides in the debate acknowledge this(reasons and blame are apportioned differently). To deny this is... well I dunno what it is TBH. This maybe.

First of all, the poster didn't state what issues he was referring to so I had to guess. Secondly, his question assumes a specific cause for these circumstances. Thirdly, his question assumes Ireland is undergoing the same process. That's why it's a loaded question and I won't answer it. I don't accept the assumptions it's based on.

Odhinn

Danzy wrote: »

There are many strands but the main one is the most problematic.

If it was "the main one", things would be considerably worse. It's the extremist minority who are the problem. The question is how to deal with that without doing injury to the innocent majority.

Greyling

Wibbs wrote: »

Your skill for shifting goalposts is well practiced. It's got nada to do with agreeing or not. It is hardly conjecture that issues have and are occurring in multicultural societies/areas within Europe

And the rain is wet. There's issues with cock roaches coming in on imported rice. Should we ban rice? Everyone needs to grow the **** up and deal with issues as adults.

Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious wrote: »

First of all, the poster didn't state what issues he was referring to so I had to guess. Secondly, his question assumes a specific cause for these circumstances. Thirdly, his question assumes Ireland is undergoing the same process. That's why it's a loaded question and I won't answer it. I don't accept the assumptions it's based on.

First, 'The poster' has done quite substantial posts previously talking about his opinions on the issues relating to Islamic culture, often on the same page as some of your posts. Didn't feel like rewriting those long posts considering your small paragraph response.

Second, a specific cause? Well, I pointed to the friction between Islamic Religion/Islamic culture (in particular their values) and western cultural values...

Third, You're seeking a simplistic answer so that you can cast allegations of racism. It allows you to perch on your pedestal of moral superiority, without committing yourself to anything which could be objected to. Instead, the only objections we can have are related to your posting style, since you haven't provided anything else of substance. Just objections to other peoples points.

2 Scoops

Odhinn wrote: »

If it was "the main one", things would be considerably worse. It's the extremist minority who are the problem. The question is how to deal with that without doing injury to the innocent majority.

That's just not true. Take the UK as one example, intelligence officers have identified 23,000 Jihadi's as potential terrorist attackers. That's the population of an average Irish town. The UK is basically under constant heightened terrorism watch - there was double digit terrorist attacks foiled in 2017. There problems are worse in Germany and France but I'll just focus on the UK since it's closest to home.

A C4 survey found that more than 100,000 British Muslims sympathize with suicide bombers and people who commit other terrorist acts. Moreover, only one in three British Muslims (34%) would contact the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with jihadists.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

"Intelligence officers have identified 23,000 jihadist extremists living in Britain as potential terrorist attackers, it emerged yesterday. The scale of the challenge facing the police and security services was disclosed by Whitehall sources after criticism that multiple opportunities to stop the Manchester bomber had been missed."


Then there's the social problems. Misogynistic and homophobic views go hand in hand with Islamic beliefs. World leaders like Merkel have repeatably said Multiculturalism is a myth and it leads to parallel societies.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law


"when asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, 18% said they agreed and 52% said they disagreed, compared with 5% among the public at large who disagreed. Almost half (47%) said they did not agree that it was acceptable for a gay person to become a teacher, compared with 14% of the general population."


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/15/world/europe/poll-british-muslims.html


"On the issue of women’s rights, 39 percent agreed with the statement “wives should always obey their husbands.”
About one-third of respondents said they would tell the police if they knew someone who was getting involved with supporting terrorism in Syria. The same proportion refused to condemn people who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet Muhammad. Almost one quarter said they favored replacing the British legal system with Islamic law.


Nearly a third (31%) thought it was acceptable for a British Muslim man to have more than one wife, compared with 8% of the wider population."


Then there's more social problems with child rape and inbreeding that have been recently been documented.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/09/grooming-gangs-muslim-men-failed-integrate-british-society/


"The report by Quilliam calls for greater support to help integrate British Pakistani people into modern British society.
It says that the gangs of mainly British-Pakistani men "have been influenced by the cultural conditions of their home country and a wider failure of British society to integrate these men into their adoptive culture.


Researchers, who analysed 264 convictions of grooming gang members since 2005, had initially expected to find Asians had been unfairly singled out.
However, they discovered that 222 of those convicted, or 84 per cent, were men of Asian origin."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4442010.stm

"It is estimated that at least 55% of British Pakistanis are married to first cousins and the tradition is also common among some other South Asian communities and in some Middle Eastern countries. But there is a problem: marrying someone who is themselves a close family member carries a risk for children - a risk that lies within the code of life; within our genes."

Antisemitism is also a rising social problem

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/britain-has-an-anti-semitism-problem-and-now-we-have-the-numbers-to-prove-it/

"A new report on anti-Semitism in Britain makes uncomfortable reading all round.

The study, a joint enterprise by the Community Security Trust and the Institute for Jewish Policy Research, is an in-depth exploration of anti-Jewish attitudes, the role of animus towards Israel, and the prevalence of prejudice in 2017...

The findings from Muslim attitudes are especially troubling. In short, British Muslims are markedly more anti-Semitic than the general population, as measured by agreement or disagreement with a series of value statements.

Twenty-five percent of British Muslims believe that Jews ‘exploit Holocaust victimhood for their own purposes’ "


The problems associated with Islamic culture are widespread, trying to make an argument that it's only a tiny minority is very disingenuous.

JohnMc1

murphthesmurf wrote: »

As we have established, Islam is overwhelmingly anti womens rights, Sharia law is barbaric to say the least, Islam teaches that gays should be killed etc. So should we allow Muslims into Ireland knowing that they are highly unlikely to leave these beliefs behind? As you have said above, it is extremely difficult to leave the religeon you are born into for people from that part of the world. We in the west manage it without any problems

Probably because leaving Christianity doesn't come with a death sentence. If you tell your Priest that you're leaving the faith he'll pray for you and hope you come back to the faith someday. Leaving Islam is punishable by death.

If you want to make a case for Islam go right ahead. You're not doing your argument any good by trying to compare Islam to Christianity. Its the proverbial Apples and Oranges situation. They're nothing alike. Bashing Christianity is not going to make Islam look any better.

Greyling

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Probably because leaving Christianity doesn't come with a death sentence.

Its not possible to leave the Catholic Church. AHHH!!!

Have you calmed down yet?

Greyling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

First, 'The poster' has done quite substantial posts previously talking about his opinions on the issues relating to Islamic culture, often on the same page as some of your posts. Didn't feel like rewriting those long posts considering your small paragraph response.

Second, a specific cause? Well, I pointed to the friction between Islamic Religion/Islamic culture (in particular their values) and western cultural values...

Third, You're seeking a simplistic answer so that you can cast allegations of racism. It allows you to perch on your pedestal of moral superiority, without committing yourself to anything which could be objected to. Instead, the only objections we can have are related to your posting style, since you haven't provided anything else of substance. Just objections to other peoples points.

What do you think you're addressing here with your 1. 2. 3?

**** all with the rest with the rest of the dullards.

thebull85

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-fear-footage-of-assault-on-officers-will-be-circulated-on-social-media-36858579.html?__twitter_impression=true


More enrichment.

thebull85

thebull85 wrote: »

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-fear-footage-of-assault-on-officers-will-be-circulated-on-social-media-36858579.html?__twitter_impression=true


More enrichment.

I hate to be the one who takes the bait here, but WTF has that got to do with Islam?

Kotek Besar

Deleted User wrote: »

I hate to be the one who takes the bait here, but WTF has that got to do with Islam?

Because Nigerian=foreign=islam=bad=IreExit grrrrr..!

Kotek Besar

And, while we're on the subject of this link having no relation to the subject of discussion..

thebull85 wrote: »

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-fear-footage-of-assault-on-officers-will-be-circulated-on-social-media-36858579.html?__twitter_impression=true


More enrichment.

"Gardaí fear footage of assault on officers will be circulated on social media"

..someone might want to remind An Garda Síochána that photography is not a crime and there's no right of privacy in a public place.

Rory28

Kotek Besar wrote: »

And, while we're on the subject of this link having no relation to the subject of discussion..




"Gardaí fear footage of assault on officers will be circulated on social media"

..someone might want to remind An Garda Síochána that photography is not a crime and there's no right of privacy in a public place.

You can surely see why they don't want the videos getting out. they were made withdraw from an altercation. That is not a good look for a police force. Any other country except here and the UK they would be full of holes not laughing at the Garda doing their job.

Gravelly

Kotek Besar wrote: »

And, while we're on the subject of this link having no relation to the subject of discussion..




"Gardaí fear footage of assault on officers will be circulated on social media"

..someone might want to remind An Garda Síochána that photography is not a crime and there's no right of privacy in a public place.

They said they fear footage might be circulated on social media, not that they were trying to charge anyone for circulating it. Presumably they fear this because it would traumatise the victims of the assault, and their families further.

You seem more concerned that some criminal might have aspersions cast upon him, and, horror of horrors, have his phone confiscated, than you are that criminals can attack members of the Gardaí and call on a mob to help them out - I wonder would you have the same attitude if these scumbags were merely white Irish ones?

Kotek Besar

Gravelly wrote: »

You seem more concerned that some criminal might have aspersions cast upon him, and, horror of horrors, have his phone confiscated, than you are that criminals can attack members of the Gardaí and call on a mob to help them out - I wonder would you have the same attitude if these scumbags were merely white Irish ones?

Make assumptions much?

wexie

Rory28 wrote: »

Any other country except here and the UK they would be full of holes not laughing at the Garda doing their job.

that would be terrible....:rolleyes:

Mutant z

JohnMc1 wrote: »

murphthesmurf wrote: »

As we have established, Islam is overwhelmingly anti womens rights, Sharia law is barbaric to say the least, Islam teaches that gays should be killed etc. So should we allow Muslims into Ireland knowing that they are highly unlikely to leave these beliefs behind? As you have said above, it is extremely difficult to leave the religeon you are born into for people from that part of the world. We in the west manage it without any problems

Probably because leaving Christianity doesn't come with a death sentence. If you tell your Priest that you're leaving the faith he'll pray for you and hope you come back to the faith someday. Leaving Islam is punishable by death.

If you want to make a case for Islam go right ahead. You're not doing your argument any good by trying to compare Islam to Christianity. Its the proverbial Apples and Oranges situation. They're nothing alike. Bashing Christianity is not going to make Islam look any better.

You're wasting your time with this crowd they will never see Islam for what it is they equate it to the same as Christianity when they have no idea until they end up living under a sharia government that's the only thing that will wake up the Looney left but by then it will be much too late.

taserfrank

Mutant z wrote: »

You're wasting your time with this crowd they will never see Islam for what it is they equate it to the same as Christianity when they have no idea until they end up living under a sharia government that's the only thing that will wake up the Looney left but by then it will be much too late.

I agree. The arguments from the wacko lefties on here actually equating Islam to Christianity are completely deluded. Its always amazing how Islam gets such an easy ride from the left, and the feminazis in particular.

murphthesmurf

taserfrank wrote: »

I agree. The arguments from the wacko lefties on here actually equating Islam to Christianity are completely deluded. Its always amazing how Islam gets such an easy ride from the left, and the feminazis in particular.

This is one of the things I find most confusing and hypocritical. We are bombarded with feminism on tv and radio, and women are better off now than ever (another subject altogether), gay rights have come on a long way with gay marraige etc. But all these things take a back seat when it comes to multiculturalism.
The lefts priority list goes as follows
1. Islam and multiculturalism
2. Womens rights and gay rights
.......
99. Insects
100. White men.

Sorry ladies, feminism is cool, but accepting of other cultures is cooler. Gay rights are today, but Islam is tomorrow.
We know for a fact from surveys and commonsense that the majority of Muslims will not accept equal rights for women and gays are strictly taboo. Yet we welcome them with open arms. I really can't get my head around it.

Captain Obvious

murphthesmurf wrote: »

This is one of the things I find most confusing and hypocritical. We are bombarded with feminism on tv and radio, and women are better off now than ever (another subject altogether), gay rights have come on a long way with gay marraige etc. But all these things take a back seat when it comes to multiculturalism.
The lefts priority list goes as follows
1. Islam and multiculturalism
2. Womens rights and gay rights
.......
99. Insects
100. White men.

Sorry ladies, feminism is cool, but accepting of other cultures is cooler. Gay rights are today, but Islam is tomorrow.
We know for a fact from surveys and commonsense that the majority of Muslims will not accept equal rights for women and gays are strictly taboo. Yet we welcome them with open arms. I really can't get my head around it.

White men, the real victims of discrimination. :rolleyes:

Gravelly

murphthesmurf wrote: »

The lefts priority list goes as follows
1. Islam and multiculturalism
2. Transgender
3. Travellers
4. Any other violent, misogynistic group, as long as they aren't white or travellers
5. Womens rights and gay rights
.......
99. Insects
100. White men.

FYP

murphthesmurf

Captain Obvious wrote: »

White men, the real victims of discrimination. :rolleyes:

Can you point to the part that said descriminated against???
No, because it's not there. It clearly says the list of priorities for the left, clearly with Islam/multiculturalism at number one, women and gay rights at number 2. I threw in the men at the bottom for the hell of it, but for the left it is entirely true. Instead of addressing the fact that Islam in Ireland will be to the detriment of womens and gay rights, you decide to scoff at the white men part as that is what rattled your cage. Do the left get fitted with special glasses that filter out anything that contradicts them.
The men issue is for another thread (testosterone levels dropping 1% each year since the 80's, sperm levels alarmingly dropping year after year and zero talk or investigation as to why. Male suicide etc. Another subject for another thread.) We are discussing Islam, you are trying to divert from it at every opportunity.

murphthesmurf

Gravelly wrote: »

FYP

Thats more like it.
I had to Google 'FYP'

Gravelly

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Thats more like it.
I had to Google 'FYP'

Only learned the meaning of it myself on here recently!

thebull85

thebull85 wrote: »

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-fear-footage-of-assault-on-officers-will-be-circulated-on-social-media-36858579.html?__twitter_impression=true


More enrichment.

Maybe deserves a thread of its own then? I posted because the same people that told us we had no african gangs a few months ago are on here defending islam..

thebull85

https://extra.ie/2018/05/01/news/irish-news/garda-manhunt-limerick-assault

description of attacker not released to the public, i wonder why?

taserfrank

thebull85 wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2018/05/01/news/irish-news/garda-manhunt-limerick-assault

description of attacker not released to the public, i wonder why?

Because he's brown, someone might get offended.

Mutant z

thebull85 wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2018/05/01/news/irish-news/garda-manhunt-limerick-assault

description of attacker not released to the public, i wonder why?

Doesnt fit the narrative it must really grate with them everytime someone of an ethnic background commits a crime it shows the multicultural society they are so in awe in a less than perfect light.

taserfrank

Mutant z wrote: »

Doesnt fit the narrative it must really grate with them everytime someone of an ethnic background commits a crime it shows the multicultural society they are so in awe in a less than perfect light.

This is disgusting. The desire to be 100% politically correct and portray this utopia of a wonderful multicultural society is more important than attempting to identify and make the public aware of a dangerous sexual predator.

Auguste Comte

taserfrank wrote: »

Because he's brown, someone might get offended.

How do you know what color he is?

thebull85

Auguste Comte wrote: »

How do you know what color he is?

Its a common theme when the attacker is not white to not give a description to the public, but they 'will pass the description on to other garda stations'

Yep, 100% not white

murphthesmurf

thebull85 wrote: »

Maybe deserves a thread of its own then? I posted because the same people that told us we had no african gangs a few months ago are on here defending islam..

The mafia in Italy are at war with Nigerian crime gangs according to several news articles I've read online. Who'd have thought the biggest threat to one of the worlds largest and well known criminal organisations would come from multiculturalism in the form of Nigerian crime gangs arriving via charities and NGO boat taxis from Libya. Couldn't make it up.

Gravelly

Auguste Comte wrote: »

How do you know what color he is?

thebull85 wrote: »

Its a common theme when the attacker is not white to not give a description to the public, but they 'will pass the description on to other garda stations'

Yep, 100% not white

It's especially strange that they have a photofit and description, but appear to be willing to put the public in danger by not releasing it. I wonder if this would leave them liable in the event some other poor girl is attacked?