Is Islam right for Ireland?

Greyling

Its all alt right wrote: »

It's obvious you are trying to get this thread closed. I hope it remains as it will serve as a good reference going forward in how Islam pans out in Ireland be it for good, bad or indifferent.

In regards to the other thing. I Actually see what you're banging on about now. You're right, haven't posted in a while. Seen the pepefrog user while trawling back for the the multiquotes. Sorry, different guy. Been reading this thread a while and just find your posting style in the discussion a bit on the angry side throughout. Maybe some of that moderation for yourself?

Very good..!!!

A Pint of Goo

Richard Hillman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PeterSweden7/status/993620283587166209

Vast majority of gang rapes in Sweden are committed by migrants

" Of 112 convicted offenders, 82 are born outside Europe. The most common citizenship among the perpetrators is Sweden (41), Afghanistan (25), Iraq (9) and Somalia (7).

27 of the 112 were born in Sweden, of which 13 of two Swedish-born parents.

In other words, 99 out of 112 have the convicted offenders, or just over 88 percent, foreign backgrounds."

http://www.friatider.se/aftonbladet-99-av-112-gruppv-ldt-ktsm-n-har-utl-ndsk-bakgrund

And here's another gang rape in Malmo, which just before Christmas had 4-5 reported gang rapes

http://www.friatider.se/kvinna-utsatt-f-r-grov-v-ldt-kt-i-malm-tre-g-rningsm-n-gripna

When did Sweden turn into South Africa?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Uh, Islam.?

I'm feeling a bit lost here.. It's like you're suggesting that Muslim women drinking alcohol is somewhat common.

It is where I live. Perfectly normal for all Muslim's here to drink.

A Pint of Goo

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

Yeah we're scum for wondering why Sweden covers up it's rape stats. Good one.

How do they cover up rape statistics exactly?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

It is where I live. Perfectly normal for all Muslim's here to drink.

Interesting. I guess the Balkans are more relaxed than Indonesia based on what I saw there, and it's pretty strict I thought in the Middle East.

Out of 1.8bn Muslims, I'd have to imagine the percentage of women who drink alcohol would still be pretty low.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Interesting. I guess the Balkans are more relaxed than Indonesia based on what I saw there, and it's pretty strict I thought in the Middle East.

Out of 1.8bn Muslims, I'd have to imagine the percentage of women who drink alcohol would still be pretty low.

Oh they definitely drink in Indonesia too, but i think it's more of a culture of the country thing.
I have seen Muslims in Dubai who 'don't drink'
drink away in a private house.
Suppose the percentage of women depends on how many women live in countries where it is/is not acceptable.

Hector Savage

Deleted User wrote: »

What in the world.

You might appear less insane if you talked about the statistics instead of calling someone complete scum for posting them.

Absolutely, the truth hurts.

And why don't Sweden publish them ?

You would think if there is no correlation they would be only too happy to publish the data - "See white Swedish men are the biggest Rapists out there" !! they would gleefully shout!

No data released is they know the frightening reality here but will continue to deny deny deny deny at the expense of the next generation.

Leftism is a mental disorder.

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

Absolutely, the truth hurts.

And why don't Sweden publish them ?

You would think if there is no correlation they would be only too happy to publish the data - "See white Swedish men are the biggest Rapists out there" !! they would gleefully shout!

No data released is they know the frightening reality here but will continue to deny deny deny deny at the expense of the next generation.

Leftism is a mental disorder.

Why don't they publish what exactly?
Statistics on the nationality of offenders?

inforfun

Last Friday, the day that The Netherlands remembers their WWII victims there were several "incidents" in Eindhoven, Middelburg and The Hague.
Only the last one had actual photo and video footage of an arrest being made and the "confused man" could be put up in the press again.
Add in a brother who warned several times that his brother, the Syrian refugee Malek Fostok was losing it and we can all go safe to bed knowing it has nothing to do with....

Just too bad that the several videos had sound and the usual shouts that that fairy in the sky is so great were there for everybody to hear.

What he did do before his arrest? Oh, only tried to slice the necks of 3 randomers in the street who all 3 survived but are still in hospital.

Soon the yearly low blood sugar month starts. So for the next month, till the WC starts, these kinds of "incidents" and "accidents" will not involve confused men but men with low blood sugar and it has all nothing to do with.....

So to answer the question. No

Hector Savage

bubblypop wrote: »

Why don't they publish what exactly?
Statistics on the nationality of offenders?

Ethnic/cultural background yes.

It's known that certain cultural backgrounds view women (particularly western non believing women that dare show a bit of skin) merely as chattel ... This will only be reinforced if they release the data.

I can understand why they don't, they want to lie to themselves and others and insist that they will integrate and be just like other Swedes in time, sadly this isn't panning out.

Hector Savage

inforfun wrote: »

Last Friday, the day that The Netherlands remembers their WWII victims there were several "incidents" in Eindhoven, Middelburg and The Hague.
Only the last one had actual photo and video footage of an arrest being made and the "confused man" could be put up in the press again.
Add in a brother who warned several times that his brother, the Syrian refugee Malek Fostok was losing it and we can all go safe to bed knowing it has nothing to do with....

Just too bad that the several videos had sound and the usual shouts that that fairy in the sky is so great were there for everybody to hear.

What he did do before his arrest? Oh, only tried to slice the necks of 3 randomers in the street who all 3 survived but are still in hospital.

Soon the yearly low blood sugar month starts. So for the next month, till the WC starts, these kinds of "incidents" and "accidents" will not involve confused men but men with low blood sugar and it has all nothing to do with.....

So to answer the question. No

I didn't hear about this incident, I wonder would the MSM be not giving it much coverage ? surely not.


Again, can you IMAGINE if this was some KKK redneck asshole in the US ?

There would be headlines all over the MSM and the guardian would have a 10 page hit piece special on how the far right is a serious and real growing threat.

:rolleyes:

Gravelly

inforfun wrote: »

Last Friday, the day that The Netherlands remembers their WWII victims there were several "incidents" in Eindhoven, Middelburg and The Hague.
Only the last one had actual photo and video footage of an arrest being made and the "confused man" could be put up in the press again.
Add in a brother who warned several times that his brother, the Syrian refugee Malek Fostok was losing it and we can all go safe to bed knowing it has nothing to do with....

Just too bad that the several videos had sound and the usual shouts that that fairy in the sky is so great were there for everybody to hear.

What he did do before his arrest? Oh, only tried to slice the necks of 3 randomers in the street who all 3 survived but are still in hospital.

Soon the yearly low blood sugar month starts. So for the next month, till the WC starts, these kinds of "incidents" and "accidents" will not involve confused men but men with low blood sugar and it has all nothing to do with.....

Expect a lot of mentally ill lone wolves to suddenly start shouting and attacking people for no discernible reason. Possibly caused by racism-induced stress due to all the awful westerners not showing enough love for the prophet.

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

Uh, Islam.?

I'm feeling a bit lost here.. It's like you're suggesting that Muslim women drinking alcohol is somewhat common.

I think this depends largely on the comparator. It is a rather skewed statistic to lump Muslim women in countries where it is illegal for them to drink with those who are in a position where they can make a voluntary decision to drink. I can't find any statistics on how Muslims in Western or so-called 'Westernised' countries drink but my own personal experience of studying alongside Muslims as a student in Brussels, and from friend circles in the UK, is that there are plenty of Muslims who drink alcohol. That said, the girls would tend to drink very lightly, maybe only glass or two of wine (but that's a perfectly healthy way of approaching it I guess!).

Like I said, I am not disputing your point, but you seem to be basing your belief on the religious rules rather than any empirical evidence. Sure, I fully acknowledge that my experiences on the matter are merely anecdotal but I have tended to find that people nowadays are basing their views much more of documentaries and news stories than simple personal experience. I had a friend who did charity work in Palestine and he told me about an Oktoberfest he went to over there. I found that hard to believe but, lo and behold: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/oct/08/drinkers-islam-palestinian-beerfest-alcohol . As the article states, this festival continues notwithstanding the de facto ban on alcohol by Hamas.

Again -- yet more evidence that Muslims are perfectly capable of individual conscience and are not all fanatical towers of the fundamentalist line.

Around ten years ago, after a semester of American students in NUIG, I made the point on here that we don't know real Americans. We see the rich students coming over, and the old tourists who love the Irish, but we never see typical Americans in Ireland. We know the 1%.

I think that exact point can be applied here as well. The Muslims who have lived in Ireland that we end up knowing come from a very specific background that allows them that opportunity. They usually have very good jobs. The Muslims we surround ourselves with in Arab countries are likewise a certain type of Muslim that is very Westernised. In Vietnam here, I understand perfectly that people like my girlfriend, my friends, or my rich students, have totally different mindsets towards the west than the typical Vietnamese person.


This notion that Syrian refugees are going to be the same as lovely Muhammad down the office who goes for Guinness on a Thursday doesn't hold up. Our exposure to true Arabs is so incredibly limited, even though we think we know them fine. The rich Ducati-driving Afghan tea-traders I play pool and drink beers with in Hanoi are not the same people that are escaping a war as refugees.

This post is not supposed to make it out like these unknowns are bad people. But it is why integration doesn't happen anywhere in Europe, and we all act surprised when it doesn't, because surely they're just like the Muslims we already know. At best, the 99% have no interest in Western culture. At worst, they hate it.

Gravelly

Deleted User wrote: »

Around ten years ago, after a semester of American students in NUIG, I made the point on here that we don't know real Americans. We see the rich students coming over, and the old tourists who love the Irish, but we never see typical Americans in Ireland. We know the 1%.

I think that exact point can be applied here as well. The Muslims who have lived in Ireland that we end up knowing come from a very specific background that allows them that opportunity. They usually have very good jobs. The Muslims we surround ourselves with in Arab countries are likewise a certain type of Muslim that is very Westernised. In Vietnam here, I understand perfectly that people like my girlfriend, my friends, or my rich students, have totally different mindsets towards the west than the typical Vietnamese person.


This notion that Syrian refugees are going to be the same as lovely Muhammad down the office who goes for Guinness on a Thursday doesn't hold up. Our exposure to true Arabs is so incredibly limited, even though we think we know them fine. The rich Ducati-driving Afghan tea-traders I play pool and drink beers with in Hanoi are not the same people that are escaping a war as refugees.

This post is not supposed to make it out like these unknowns are bad people. But it is why integration doesn't happen anywhere in Europe, and we all act surprised when it doesn't, because surely they're just like the Muslims we already know. At best, the 99% have no interest in Western culture. At worst, they hate it.

I've made a similar point here before - I train several muslim lads on my teams, and they are no different in outlook or attitude to the Irish, Polish, or Nigerian lads I train, but of course that is because the lads going out playing soccer are unlikely to be the lads that will cause problems. I travel extensively for work and I see what the mindset of the more devout cohort of muslims is, and how that affects how they treat women, and how they see nonbelievers. Unfortunately they make up a large percentage of the population.

Odhinn

10000maniacs wrote: »

I never said either were. However there is a sizable percentage of the Afghanistan population whom claim to be descendents of the prophet Muhammad and so they can be considered Arab. If you want to split hairs, I can too.

Religion=/=ethnicity. The vast majority of Afghans are not of arabic descent.

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

Around ten years ago, after a semester of American students in NUIG, I made the point on here that we don't know real Americans. We see the rich students coming over, and the old tourists who love the Irish, but we never see typical Americans in Ireland. We know the 1%.

I think that exact point can be applied here as well. The Muslims who have lived in Ireland that we end up knowing come from a very specific background that allows them that opportunity. They usually have very good jobs. The Muslims we surround ourselves with in Arab countries are likewise a certain type of Muslim that is very Westernised. In Vietnam here, I understand perfectly that people like my girlfriend, my friends, or my rich students, have totally different mindsets towards the west than the typical Vietnamese person.


This notion that Syrian refugees are going to be the same as lovely Muhammad down the office who goes for Guinness on a Thursday doesn't hold up. Our exposure to true Arabs is so incredibly limited, even though we think we know them fine. The rich Ducati-driving Afghan tea-traders I play pool and drink beers with in Hanoi are not the same people that are escaping a war as refugees.

This post is not supposed to make it out like these unknowns are bad people. But it is why integration doesn't happen anywhere in Europe, and we all act surprised when it doesn't, because surely they're just like the Muslims we already know. At best, the 99% have no interest in Western culture. At worst, they hate it.

Again though -- your last paragraph sums up why I get so frustrated in these arguments. Integration doesn't happen anywhere in Europe? What? Lots of people from all over the world, including refugees, are fully integrated into Europe and their children even more so. We are constantly being told, and these arguments have been peddled for decades (even centuries) by the harbingers of apocalyptic doom, that foreigners coming to our shores will only bring disaster. Europe has had immigration for years and years and there has been absolutely no slide in progressivism. LGBT rights and womens' rights have continued to develop both in the national conscience and in the law. Ireland, which traditionally has had less immigration than the illustrious former Imperial powers, has ironically been the slow learner of Western Europe when it comes to getting over our religious hang-ups.

"This notion that Syrian refugees are going to be the same as lovely Muhammad down the office who goes for Guinness on a Thursday doesn't hold up." -- Again, I can't dispute this on an evidential basis, but on the premise that something which is posited without evidence can be disputed without evidence, what is your basis for saying this? Have you ever asked a Syrian refugee to join you for a drink or a coffee? Have you spoken to any Syrian refugees in Ireland? These people have fled a civil war for God's sake -- they are fleeing violence and extremism in the hope of finding peace somewhere. They are not wired into some Great Muslim Mainframe housed in the Kaaba which programmes them to take no part in our way of life in aeternum. It takes time to go from running away from missiles in Syria to going down to the local GAA club for a pint and a ceili. We must not lose empathy in this regard.

And we are not talking about rich Afghan tea-drinkers here when it comes to Muslims working in the professional environment. It would be fairly ridiculous to claim that Muslims who are Compliance officers or Human Resource consultants in a bank are the sons and daughters of oil kingpins. They're from ordinary families like anyone else.

ArthurDayne

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Again though -- your last paragraph sums up why I get so frustrated in these arguments. Integration doesn't happen anywhere in Europe? What? Lots of people from all over the world, including refugees, are fully integrated into Europe and their children even more so. We are constantly being told, and these arguments have been peddled for decades (even centuries) by the harbingers of apocalyptic doom, that foreigners coming to our shores will only bring disaster. Europe has had immigration for years and years and there has been absolutely no slide in progressivism. LGBT rights and womens' rights have continued to develop both in the national conscience and in the law. Ireland, which traditionally has had less immigration than the illustrious former Imperial powers, has ironically been the slow learner of Western Europe when it comes to getting over our religious hang-ups.

Yeah, plenty of immigration for a very long time, by people who I just described as Mohammad who goes for pints on a Thursday.

The fact that all these problems are now happening in Europe supports the argument that it's when the masses immigrate that problems occur.. The people who are in Europe because they have no other choice due to war.



We disagree on everything in the rest of your post and having written out a big reply to it, I just cannot be arsed getting into it so I deleted it.

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

Ethnic/cultural background yes.

It's known that certain cultural backgrounds view women (particularly western non believing women that dare show a bit of skin) merely as chattel ... This will only be reinforced if they release the data.

I can understand why they don't, they want to lie to themselves and others and insist that they will integrate and be just like other Swedes in time, sadly this isn't panning out.

The law doesn't see skin colour or religion or ethnic backgrounds etc.
The law judges everyone equally. As it should.
Do you think the gardai have records of offenders nationality or ethnicity?

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, plenty of immigration for a very long time, by people who I just described as Mohammad who goes for pints on a Thursday.

The fact that all these problems are now happening in Europe supports the argument that it's when the masses immigrate that problems occur.. The people who are in Europe because they have no other choice due to war.

We disagree on everything in the rest of your post and having written out a big reply to it, I just cannot be arsed getting into it so I deleted it.

It is unfortunate that you deleted those points having made them. Your posts are well-written and I believe that Irish people need to start finding the energy to discuss this point in depth -- rather than allow others to do the discussing for them in media sources (which we must always remember is an industry which tries to find the stories that people will read i.e. misery/destruction/death). Long posts, in my humble view, are more than welcome on this topic.

I just feel that much of the talk about 'all of Europe's problems' is both exaggerated and misses some key points. Take France for example --- (a country which I love and lived in by the way). A crucial point being missed is that much of their issues with the integration of the Muslim people (whose countries they p**sed all over but whose manpower they sought to rebuild their country after the War) actually arose from an unwillingness to make any meaningful attempt at integrating them. They were shipped into the banlieues and largely left to develop as a micro-society within France. France has been feeling the effect of that ever since. Muslim or otherwise, France more or less built disaffected neighbourhoods from scratch and happily kept the people there unofficially segregated.

The Syrian refugee issue and the terrorism have bred yet more caricatures. Molenbeek in Brussels has been portrayed as an exclave of Raqqa under the Islamic State which is dangerous and a symbol of Muslim intransigence and inability to think for themselves. A place where people of liberal thought should not feel safe. One need only go visit the place to see how wildly exaggerated the dystopian vision of Molenbeek really is. The portrayal of it in the media would be hilarious if it wasn't actually only helping to convince young Muslims living there that the whole Western world hates them. Of course, Molenbeek is poor, but it is remarkable though that people blame Brussel's ails on the Muslim population -- while conveniently forgetting that the inability of the native French-speakers and Flemish-speakers to live in harmony with eachother (and not the presence of Muslims) has led to one of the most God-awfully dysfunctional administrations in the developed world. If they had a proper effective government, and stopped worrying so much about whether they say 'Oui' or 'Ja', they might be able to address the problems in places like Molenbeek.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

The law doesn't see skin colour or religion or ethnic backgrounds etc.
The law judges everyone equally. As it should.
Do you think the gardai have records of offenders nationality or ethnicity?

I don't see why they wouldn't have nationality. That's a very basic "who is this guy?" thing to know.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

In Vietnam here, I understand perfectly that people like my girlfriend, my friends, or my rich students, have totally different mindsets towards the west than the typical Vietnamese person.

There's also the perspective that other cultures tend to run a little deeper than we do. Westerners wear their emotions/thoughts openly on their faces, and in their speech. In Asian countries, you could know someone for twenty years and still not know their true feelings on a topic even though you've had many conversations about it.

In countries where the government or cultural indoctrination is stronger, people tend to hide their true thoughts. This is especially true of countries like China and Japan, where they'll tell you what they think you want to hear, but inside their heads, they're calling you an arrogant barbarian.

I've seen similar with Muslim men who I have known for over a decade. We went drinking, and helped each other in our dating pursuits while they were "young". They expressed their admiration for western culture and the freedom we have to experience life. Roll forward a few years, they go home, get married, and turn into ultra conservative Muslims. Anything they did previously while unmarried is never spoken of, and they become openly critical of the behavior of western women.

This post is not supposed to make it out like these unknowns are bad people. But it is why integration doesn't happen anywhere in Europe, and we all act surprised when it doesn't, because surely they're just like the Muslims we already know. At best, the 99% have no interest in Western culture. At worst, they hate it.

Western government/society is expecting that if they're welcoming and open to all cultures then other cultures will return the same attitude. But the world is not like that. Other cultures do not tolerate what is different from themselves within their own borders... and if they have the opportunity to expand the influence of their cultures, they will seize the chance.

Western culture is seen as being decadent and weak abroad. It's no longer considered something to aspire to. There have been too many crisis's, scandals, and mistakes made in the last few decades for other societies/cultures to treat with Western culture from a position of respect.

donegaLroad

Summer In the City wrote: »

I live in predominantly Muslim country neighbouring Saudi Arabia and there is a Christian church within walking distance from my apartment. Should I deny the Arabs in Dublin the same rights they've afforded the religion of my birth here? The Saudis aren't the be all and end all of Arab Muslims.

Absolutely not. Every religion should have the right to have a place of worship near their congregation. So long as there are no demands made to change the law or constitution to accommodate such ridiculous notions like men and women travelling sesperately on public transport, or that a particular school uniform skirt is too short.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't see why they wouldn't have nationality. That's a very basic "who is this guy?" thing to know.

Not for crime statistics, it's not needed

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Not for crime statistics, it's not needed

For their own records, though? I'd be surprised if they only kept track of names and ages.

Rory28

bubblypop wrote: »

Not for crime statistics, it's not needed

Why would you say its not needed? It seems like an important detail when arresting someone. Like the guy that stabbed the Japanese guy, they had trouble finding his nationality. I'm not even sure if they ever did.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

The law doesn't see skin colour or religion or ethnic backgrounds etc.
The law judges everyone equally. As it should.
Do you think the gardai have records of offenders nationality or ethnicity?

You don't think that 'Travellers' have their records listing them as such?

Ireland was a pretty homogeneous society. It's not like other countries with dozens or more different ethnic backgrounds... so I doubt the Gardai put much importance on ethnicity... however I'd imagine that will change in the future as Ireland sees more migrants.

ArthurDayne

ArthurDayne wrote: »

It is unfortunate that you deleted those points having made them. Your posts are well-written and I believe that Irish people need to start finding the energy to discuss this point in depth -- rather than allow others to do the discussing for them in media sources (which we must always remember is an industry which tries to find the stories that people will read i.e. misery/destruction/death). Long posts, in my humble view, are more than welcome on this topic.

I just feel that much of the talk about 'all of Europe's problems' is both exaggerated and misses some key points. Take France for example --- (a country which I love and lived in by the way). A crucial point being missed is that much of their issues with the integration of the Muslim people (whose countries they p**sed all over but whose manpower they sought to rebuild their country after the War) actually arose from an unwillingness to make any meaningful attempt at integrating them. They were shipped into the banlieues and largely left to develop as a micro-society within France. France has been feeling the effect of that ever since. Muslim or otherwise, France more or less built disaffected neighbourhoods from scratch and happily kept the people there unofficially segregated.

The Syrian refugee issue and the terrorism have bred yet more caricatures. Molenbeek in Brussels has been portrayed as an exclave of Raqqa under the Islamic State which is dangerous and a symbol of Muslim intransigence and inability to think for themselves. A place where people of liberal thought should not feel safe. One need only go visit the place to see how wildly exaggerated the dystopian vision of Molenbeek really is. The portrayal of it in the media would be hilarious if it wasn't actually only helping to convince young Muslims living there that the whole Western world hates them. Of course, Molenbeek is poor, but it is remarkable though that people blame Brussel's ails on the Muslim population -- while conveniently forgetting that the inability of the native French-speakers and Flemish-speakers to live in harmony with eachother (and not the presence of Muslims) has led to one of the most God-awfully dysfunctional administrations in the developed world. If they had a proper effective government, and stopped worrying so much about whether they say 'Oui' or 'Ja', they might be able to address the problems in places like Molenbeek.

If it can be done well, I'm all for it. But it has to be done better than elsewhere or there's no point.

I'm very busy now so can't respond to it all.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don't think that 'Travellers' have their records listing them as such?

Ireland was a pretty homogeneous society. It's not like other countries with dozens or more different ethnic backgrounds... so I doubt the Gardai put much importance on ethnicity... however I'd imagine that will change in the future as Ireland sees more migrants.

I can guarantee that nowhere do the gardai record nationality, ethnicity etc of offenders.
An offender is an offender & it doesn't matter a damn what colour, race or creed he/she is.
Justice must be equal for everyone.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I can guarantee that nowhere do the gardai record nationality, ethnicity etc of offenders.
An offender is an offender & it doesn't matter a damn what colour, race or creed he/she is.
Justice must be equal for everyone.

My brother was arrested recently with two Europeans. All their nationalities were in the papers.

donegaLroad

bubblypop wrote: »

I can guarantee that nowhere do the gardai record nationality, ethnicity etc of offenders.
An offender is an offender & it doesn't matter a damn what colour, race or creed he/she is.
Justice must be equal for everyone.

I can guarantee that they do, I have a close relative in the gardai.

Gravelly

bubblypop wrote: »

Not for crime statistics, it's not needed

Not needed indeed. They used to be, up until 2005, but now they are not needed anymore.

"In January 2017, the Löfven Cabinet denied the request from member parliament Staffan Danielsson to update the BRÅ statistics on crime with respect to national or immigration background of the perpetrator, as had previously been done in 1995, 2005 but the 2015 was overdue"

Swedish police banned from describing criminals anymore in case they sound racist

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My brother was arrested recently with two Europeans. All their nationalities were in the papers.

Newspapers, not recorded by police for crime statistics

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

I can guarantee that they do, I have a close relative in the gardai.

Well, maybe you need to ask him again......

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Newspapers, not recorded by police for crime statistics

Stop talking about statistics.. I'm talking about their own ability to investigate crime.

Surely knowing where criminals are from is one of the most basic steps you can take. "Oh we just caught another guys from ___. Maybe they know each other."

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Stop talking about statistics.. I'm talking about their own ability to investigate crime.

Surely knowing where criminals are from is one of the most basic steps you can take. "Oh we just caught another guys from ___. Maybe they know each other."

I was making the point to a poster earlier that crime statistics, do not need the nationality of offenders recorded.
The poster thought there was some big cover up because Sweden don't publish how many foreigners committed crime there!
I was merely pointing out that for if it's like Ireland, then they just don't record nationality of offenders.

donegaLroad

bubblypop wrote: »

Well, maybe you need to ask him again......

He's been in the force almost 20 years. Are you trying to tell me that Im wrong?

I thought you were a reasonable person a few pages back.

donegaLroad

bubblypop wrote: »

I was making the point to a poster earlier that crime statistics, do not need the nationality of offenders recorded.
The poster thought there was some big cover up because Sweden don't publish how many foreigners committed crime there!
I was merely pointing out that for if it's like Ireland, then they just don't record nationality of offenders.

They do record the nationality of offenders in Ireland. Dont have me go digging out examples.

All court records and police records detail the country of origin of offenders in Ireland, and ethnicity in some (but not all) cases.

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

He's been in the force almost 20 years. Are you trying to tell me that Im wrong?

I thought you were a reasonable person a few pages back.

It's the case of 'my insider info' is better than yours. No way to prove it, so it comes down to this.

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

He's been in the force almost 20 years. Are you trying to tell me that Im wrong?

I thought you were a reasonable person a few pages back.

When did you ask him then?
Of course the garda know a persons nationality etc.
I am merely pointing out that police in Ireland do not keep official records on offenders nationalities.
It is not needed for crime statistics.
All this was in response to a poster complaining that Sweden don't realise statistics of offenders ethnic backgrounds or nationalities.
They probably don't record them, just like the gardai.

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

They do record the nationality of offenders in Ireland. Dont have me go digging out examples.

All court records and police records detail the country of origin of offenders in Ireland, and ethnicity in some (but not all) cases.

Court records yes.
You will not find any statistics published by AGS regarding the ethnic backgrounds of offenders.
Look at any of the crime statistics published by the cso, who are responsible for that.

donegaLroad

In fact Bubblypop, a suspect's nationality is one of the first details to be made public regarding any criminal court case or pending court case.

Switch on the news any day of the week here,

'a Polish man has been detained...'

'A British national is being questioned...'

'A Greek lady is due to appear in court...'

This information is all from police records.

Omackeral

bubblypop wrote: »

I can guarantee that nowhere do the gardai record nationality, ethnicity etc of offenders.
An offender is an offender & it doesn't matter a damn what colour, race or creed he/she is.
Justice must be equal for everyone.

I’m not a garda but I do work in a prison. One of the categories you can search and categorise prisoners by on our Management System is nationality. Another is religion funnily enough. I would suggest the police have something similar in their records. Even when looking for suspects it’s vital for descriptions, I’m sure you’ve heard the terminology IC1, IC2 etc.

donegaLroad

bubblypop wrote: »

I can guarantee that nowhere do the gardai record nationality, ethnicity etc of offenders.
An offender is an offender & it doesn't matter a damn what colour, race or creed he/she is.
Justice must be equal for everyone.

just for the benefit of other posters who may be wondering what this is about.

I will find out the exact protocol on whether the gardi take a record of a persons ethnicity and will post back here later.

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

In fact Bubblypop, a suspect's nationality is one of the first details to be made public regarding any criminal court case or pending court case.

Switch on the news any day of the week here,

'a Polish man has been detained...'

'A British national is being questioned...'

'A Greek lady is due to appear in court...'

This information is all from police records.

No, it's from court reports.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

I’m not a garda but I do work in a prison. One of the categories you can search and categorise prisoners by on our Management System is nationality. Another is religion funnily enough. I would suggest the police have something similar in their records. Even when looking for suspects it’s vital for descriptions, I’m sure you’ve heard the terminology IC1, IC2 etc.

This categories are not used by gardai.

Look up the annual crime statistics & try to find information on what ethnicities committed which crimes. You won't find it.

donegaLroad

bubblypop wrote: »

No, it's from court reports.

the courts get it from police records ffs.

So hows the weather in the Balkans at the minute?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

This categories are not used by gardai.

Look up the annual crime statistics & try to find information on what ethnicities committed which crimes. You won't find it.

Oh, I did some searching myself, and most reports/articles pointed to the lack of records used by the Gardai and the weaknesses of such a system. Nowhere, could I find any detailed reports showing what is or isn't actually recorded.

There is a difference between the official statistical information and the records of the Gardai, and honestly, it's kinda annoying that you're making such claims without providing any real supporting evidence.. At least donegaLroad has said that he'll check and get back to us with something more reliable. You're just spilling out hot air.

Rory28

donegaLroad wrote: »

the courts get it from police records ffs.

So hows the weather in the Balkans at the minute?

I think the point bubbly is trying to make is they don't show nationality on the CSO releases. Which if true seems like an oversight.

Rory28

Rory28 wrote: »

I think the point bubbly is trying to make is they don't show nationality on the CSO releases. Which if true seems like an oversight.

Or just more PC nonsense.