Is Islam right for Ireland?

Omackeral

bubblypop wrote: »

This categories are not used by gardai.

Look up the annual crime statistics & try to find information on what ethnicities committed which crimes. You won't find it.

Just gonna fire off a WhatsApp to my best mate who is a serving Garda and see what he says regarding how they record things. Would find it strange that the prison system does record ethnicity and nationality but the police system does not. I too will report back verbatim.

sjohn3454

TheManTheMyth wrote: »

There have been countless stories of Muslim immigrants degrading women and gay people all across Europe and generally not integrating into the countries that they have moved to, personally i was very pro migrant about a year (maybe a year and a half) ago but have completely 180'd on the topic and now have a serious feeling of discomfort when i think about Islam spreading to Ireland. Am i the only person who feels like we have enough problems without adding this new religion into the mix? the idea that governments want to change the views of their own people rather than address the source of the issue (in my eyes Islam and the less liberal nations from which these groups originate)scares me because it sends us back to the times of keeping everything silent, it will only lead to another catholic church situation where eventually their atrocities all come to light at once.

Good question/topic. Ive being wondering this a lot too recently. I used to think open boarders were great but now Im starting to feel the opposite. I dont think Islam is right for Ireland, on a large scale anyway. We have worked very hard to get our country out of the grips of Religion/get that Religion into the 21st century. It seems crazy to now allow in one in on a large scale thats basically got all the same problems, and more. We have a great little country here and a generally very open minded lovely society. We have worked hard to get it like this so should mind it. We shouldnt be so liberal that we let people in who dont share these values. Look at how cities in the UK are developing. Birmingham, London etc. We should learn from their mistakes. Not just let anyone in. Let in people who have college educations and who have guaranteed work when they get here. People who will add to the society. No criminal records. Dont just put them all in the same poor area either as that just creates ghettos. If we let in people who have no qualifications or work then they are just gonna go on the dole and be poor here. If they all live in the same area then they wont mingle in, then their Religious beliefs will never become moderate. Their kids will become disillusioned and young males will be attracted to the more extreme sides of Religion and Politics. We will just end up with no go areas and the same problems as the UK etc. We already have cases of female genital mutilation happening & its on the rise. How long till we get honor killings or acid attacks??? These are real problems and genuine concerns. Its nothing against race etc but these things will happen more and more if we are not careful, which we are not, so we should be able to at least discuss it..... Nowadays theres more and more very young girls/kids with their faces covered(something we never used to see in Ireland) because of a Religious belief. I dont think thats right for Ireland. If feels like two steps backwards. Its just my opinion but I think Its sad to see that and frustrating that its taboo to discuss it. People are almost frightened to have an opinion now as the SJWs attack you if youre not PC. Healthy society should be able to discuss and be critical of all Religions Imo.

Rory28

Rory28 wrote: »

I think the point bubbly is trying to make is they don't show nationality on the CSO releases. Which if true seems like an oversight.

Exactly.
Gardai of course know the nationality of their offenders, but they are not officially recorded by offender nationality.
Try & find out how many Czech Republic citizens committed crime in Ireland. It's not done like that.
Official crime statistics do not rate crime by offender ethnicity.

I was pointing this out to the poster who seemed to think there was some massive conspiracy in Sweden because they don't release offender details.

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

the courts get it from police records ffs.

So hows the weather in the Balkans at the minute?

Very good, mid 20s, few thunderstorms.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, I did some searching myself, and most reports/articles pointed to the lack of records used by the Gardai and the weaknesses of such a system. Nowhere, could I find any detailed reports showing what is or isn't actually recorded.

There is a difference between the official statistical information and the records of the Gardai, and honestly, it's kinda annoying that you're making such claims without providing any real supporting evidence.. At least donegaLroad has said that he'll check and get back to us with something more reliable. You're just spilling out hot air.

Of course there is a difference. Gardai know.
Donegal road said he would check. So, you will believe him when he comes back later & says anything! Why not believe me now?
Try to look up actual crime statistics for any year in Ireland based on offenders ethnicity......

Rory28

bubblypop wrote: »

I was pointing this out to the poster who seemed to think there was some massive conspiracy in Sweden because they don't release offender details.

I would agree with that poster. What good is publishing crime statistics if we cant actually look at the data?

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Just gonna fire off a WhatsApp to my best mate who is a serving Garda and see what he says regarding how they record things. Would find it strange that the prison system does record ethnicity and nationality but the police system does not. I too will report back verbatim.

The gardai know the ethnicity. Official records released do not list offender by nationality.
Merely trying to show that poster that there's not some big conspiracy in Sweden!!

Jaysis, I'm sorry I did.....

Rory28

Rory28 wrote: »

I would agree with that poster. What good is publishing crime statistics if we cant actually look at the data?

It is actual data of crimes. Just not the nationality of the offenders.
Because that's not important.

Gravelly

Rory28 wrote: »

I would agree with that poster. What good is publishing crime statistics if we cant actually look at the data?

Especially since Sweden had no problem publishing crime data that included nationality, up until certain nationalities crime statistics became "problematic" in recent years.

Anyway, this is off topic I guess.......

Gravelly

bubblypop wrote: »

It is actual data of crimes. Just not the nationality of the offenders.
Because that's not important.

You dodged it last time I posted it, but have you a theory on why the nationality of offenders only became unimportant in the last few years?

Rory28

bubblypop wrote: »

It is actual data of crimes. Just not the nationality of the offenders.
Because that's not important.

Who says its not important? where does this belief come from?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Of course there is a difference. Gardai know.
Donegal road said he would check. So, you will believe him when he comes back later & says anything! Why not believe me now?

Why not believe you? I'm not familiar with your posting history. Whereas I've argued with donegaLroad plenty of times and he's always been fairly reliable.

Try to look up actual crime statistics for any year in Ireland based on offenders ethnicity......

That you wrote this again shows that you didn't really read what I wrote.

The fact is though that you still haven't provided any evidence to support your statements. Just plenty of assurances. donegaLroad has done the same, but has said he'll come back later with better info. If he doesn't... fine, I won't believe either your statement or his since I haven't been able to find anything myself online to support either statement.

TheManTheMyth

bubblypop wrote: »

It is actual data of crimes. Just not the nationality of the offenders.
Because that's not important.

Why is certain data not important?

10000maniacs

ArthurDayne wrote: »

It is unfortunate that you deleted those points having made them. Your posts are well-written and I believe that Irish people need to start finding the energy to discuss this point in depth -- rather than allow others to do the discussing for them in media sources (which we must always remember is an industry which tries to find the stories that people will read i.e. misery/destruction/death). Long posts, in my humble view, are more than welcome on this topic.

I just feel that much of the talk about 'all of Europe's problems' is both exaggerated and misses some key points. Take France for example --- (a country which I love and lived in by the way). A crucial point being missed is that much of their issues with the integration of the Muslim people (whose countries they p**sed all over but whose manpower they sought to rebuild their country after the War) actually arose from an unwillingness to make any meaningful attempt at integrating them. They were shipped into the banlieues and largely left to develop as a micro-society within France. France has been feeling the effect of that ever since. Muslim or otherwise, France more or less built disaffected neighbourhoods from scratch and happily kept the people there unofficially segregated.

The Syrian refugee issue and the terrorism have bred yet more caricatures. Molenbeek in Brussels has been portrayed as an exclave of Raqqa under the Islamic State which is dangerous and a symbol of Muslim intransigence and inability to think for themselves. A place where people of liberal thought should not feel safe. One need only go visit the place to see how wildly exaggerated the dystopian vision of Molenbeek really is. The portrayal of it in the media would be hilarious if it wasn't actually only helping to convince young Muslims living there that the whole Western world hates them. Of course, Molenbeek is poor, but it is remarkable though that people blame Brussel's ails on the Muslim population -- while conveniently forgetting that the inability of the native French-speakers and Flemish-speakers to live in harmony with eachother (and not the presence of Muslims) has led to one of the most God-awfully dysfunctional administrations in the developed world. If they had a proper effective government, and stopped worrying so much about whether they say 'Oui' or 'Ja', they might be able to address the problems in places like Molenbeek.

No I don't buy this argument. The poor souls were given apartments in bad neighborhoods. Boo hoo hoo. The neighborhood is what they themselves made it.
When people want better apartments or neighbourhoods, normally the deal is to get a job and start earning the right to live in such places.
Are you suggesting that when they arrived in France, they should have been given the cream of residential property and limousine services to and from the city centre.
Who is going to pay for all of this?
I lived in a crappy bedsit in Harold's Cross for the four years I was a student. I wasn't disaffected and angry. I just accepted it and the fact that if I worked hard, maybe in time I could get myself a better deal.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Just gonna fire off a WhatsApp to my best mate who is a serving Garda and see what he says regarding how they record things.

I got a reply. I’ll just copy and paste the response.

Nationality is recorded yeah and it is entered on pulse. Same for injured parties too. Anyone that has a profile created on pulse has as much info about them recorded as possible.

Take from that what you will.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Just gonna fire off a WhatsApp to my best mate who is a serving Garda and see what he says regarding how they record things.

I got a reply. I’ll just copy and paste the response.

Nationality is recorded yeah and it is entered on pulse. Same for injured parties too. Anyone that has a profile created on pulse has as much info about them recorded as possible.

Take from that what you will.

Gravelly

Omackeral wrote: »

I got a reply. I’ll just copy and paste the response.



Take from that what you will.

He must be lying, shure we have it on the utmost authority from bubblypop that it's not important!

Gravelly

Gravelly wrote: »

You dodged it last time I posted it, but have you a theory on why the nationality of offenders only became unimportant in the last few years?

I don't believe Ireland ever did, I don't know about Sweden.

Gravelly

Gravelly wrote: »

He must be lying, shure we have it on the utmost authority from bubblypop that it's not important!

Maybe you missed the part where I said you will not find any data in crime statistics in Ireland based on offenders nationality.
Try it.

Gravelly

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't believe Ireland ever did, I don't know about Sweden.

As well you know, we were speaking about Sweden.

You really are dishonest, aren't you?

Gravelly

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe you missed the part where I said you will not find any data in crime statistics in Ireland based on offenders nationality.
Try it.

Maybe you missed the part where I never said you would - the whole discussion is that, because of people like you, nationality in crime statistics is now verboten, because we must pretend that only natives (preferably Europeans) commit crime.

ArthurDayne

10000maniacs wrote: »

No I don't buy this argument. The poor souls were given apartments in bad neighborhoods. Boo hoo hoo. The neighborhood is what they themselves made it.
When people want better apartments or neighbourhoods, normally the deal is to get a job and start earning the right to live in such places.
Are you suggesting that when they arrived in France, they should have been given the cream of residential property and limousine services to and from the city centre.
Who is going to pay for all of this?
I lived in a crappy bedsit in Harold's Cross for the four years I was a student. I wasn't disaffected and angry. I just accepted it and the fact that if I worked hard, maybe in time I could get myself a better deal.

I think you've jumped somewhat headfirst into this one.

The quality of housing was never the issue -- in fact the quality of housing was good for the time. We have been discussing the topic of the integration of migrants -- and I have made the point that the French approach of lumping masses of them all into the same neighbourhoods was a mistake. It's not a question of the quality of the housing, it's a question of France making the wrong move in constructing neighbourhoods and making no attempt to integrate the people there to the French way of life. This is where elements of ghettoisation were able to take hold. By the mid-1960s, almost half of French Algerians were living in shanty towns. So in other words, France brought hundreds and thousands of migrants over from its former colonies to help rebuild the country after the destruction of the War, but had no real plan or vision of how to deal with them once the bulk of the construction was complete.

So, with no more work and living in big neighbourhoods together, the migrant population there (rightly or wrongly) grew bitter at what they perceived to be a country which didn't want them and didn't want to know them. When you have hundreds of thousands of people of that view living in the one area, you get an attitude of ghettoisation.

To be honest I am struggling to see your point in this. Do you think we should follow the mid-20th century French model and just import 100,000 immigrants into some newly built block out by the airport and see what happens? No? Then what are you arguing here?

Gravelly

Gravelly wrote: »

As well you know, we were speaking about Sweden.

You really are dishonest, aren't you?

What are you talking about? A poster basically said there was some big conspiracy because Sweden don't publish crime statistics detailing offenders nationality/ ethnic background etc.
I merely pointed out that neither do Ireland.
No big conspiracy....
Understand it now?

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

I got a reply. I’ll just copy and paste the response.



Take from that what you will.

Personal details on pulse are not to be given out. Data protection etc.

Gravelly

bubblypop wrote: »

What are you talking about? A poster basically said there was some big conspiracy because Sweden don't publish crime statistics detailing offenders nationality/ ethnic background etc.
I merely pointed out that neither do Ireland.
No big conspiracy....
Understand it now?

That's not what you said (again, as well you know), but even if you had said it, why should Sweden base their crime statistics on Ireland's? As I pointed out to you numerous times (but you ran away from) Sweden used to publish nationality and ethnic status as part of their crime statistics until it became embarrassing. You can call that a "big conspiracy" if you wish, but it is no less a fact.

quintana76

Surely It would be considered a good idea to publish such statistics in order to analyse a pattern and locus of certain types of crimes. Doing otherwise is surely showing neglect in a duty of making the general public conscious of where certain dangers lie. A potential deregation of responsibility as a result of imposed/fashionable politics? Seems like it, especially in Sweden.

quintana76

quintana76 wrote: »

Surely It would be considered a good idea to publish such statistics in order to analyse a pattern and locus of certain types of crimes. Doing otherwise is surely showing neglect in a duty of making the general public conscious of where certain dangers lie. A potential deregation of responsibility as a result of imposed/fashionable politics? Seems like it, especially in Sweden.

They do publish crime data involving areas, eg you can see which areas of Dublin have more burglaries for example.
These statistics are published every year, should be online..

10000maniacs

ArthurDayne wrote: »

I think you've jumped somewhat headfirst into this one.

The quality of housing was never the issue -- in fact the quality of housing was good for the time. We have been discussing the topic of the integration of migrants -- and I have made the point that the French approach of lumping masses of them all into the same neighbourhoods was a mistake. It's not a question of the quality of the housing, it's a question of France making the wrong move in constructing neighbourhoods and making no attempt to integrate the people there to the French way of life. This is where elements of ghettoisation were able to take hold. By the mid-1960s, almost half of French Algerians were living in shanty towns. So in other words, France brought hundreds and thousands of migrants over from its former colonies to help rebuild the country after the destruction of the War, but had no real plan or vision of how to deal with them once the bulk of the construction was complete.

So, with no more work and living in big neighbourhoods together, the migrant population there (rightly or wrongly) grew bitter at what they perceived to be a country which didn't want them and didn't want to know them. When you have hundreds of thousands of people of that view living in the one area, you get an attitude of ghettoisation.

To be honest I am struggling to see your point in this. Do you think we should follow the mid-20th century French model and just import 100,000 immigrants into some newly built block out by the airport and see what happens? No? Then what are you arguing here?

Jumping in headfirst? Not really.
And as for importing 100,000 migrants? No. They weren't imported, the migrants themselves decided upon themselves to avail of French hospitality which was forthcoming in droves. How could the French have housed them any other way in a reasonably cost effective manner? Build smaller apartment blocks all over Paris? Yeah this would be a cost effective way of spending taxpayers money.
Liberals love to come up with these theories on why people like these are disaffected and how the authorities could do better. They assume that there is a money tree growing at the back of the Dept.Of Finance.
There is only a limited pool of money available for such things.
Migrants need to be more appreciative of what the taxpayer is doing for them. In France and for that matter Ireland.

ArthurDayne

10000maniacs wrote: »

Jumping in headfirst? Not really.
And as for importing 100,000 migrants? No. They weren't imported, the migrants themselves decided upon themselves to avail of French hospitality which was forthcoming in droves. How could the French have housed them any other way in a reasonably cost effective manner? Build smaller apartment blocks all over Paris? Yeah this would be a cost effective way of spending taxpayers money.
Liberals like you love to come up with these theories on why people like these are disaffected and how the authorities could do better. You assume that there is a money tree growing at the back of the Dept.Of Finance.
There is only a limited pool of money available for such things.
Migrants need to be more appreciative of what the taxpayer is doing for them. In France and for that matter Ireland.

I find it somewhat tragically comical that you believe that North African immigrants, whose countries were subjugated and oppressed under French colonial rule (like ours was under the British), who took a chance to get some work in France, who helped rebuild France, and who were then left unemployed in neighbourhoods where the French authorities made no real efforts to integrate them (and then of course deemed simply 'lazy ungrateful immigrants' by folks of your persuasions) should have been more appreciative to their former imperial colonisers?! Perhaps I should give up my attempts at growing a magic money tree out back and start devoting my efforts to a time machine, so you can stand down at a windswept docks in 1845 and tell Irish people heading to Liverpool how grateful they should be to the British taxpayer!

God, I always do enjoy the 'you darn liberals' outbursts. Liberalism is the very force which has made Ireland a better place; it is the force which has dragged Ireland out of the shadow of the Church and conservative backwardness; it is the very thing which we are trying to defend in Ireland. So, as someone who has never really labelled himself, if I am a Liberal as you say -- then I am honoured by your compliment.

Anyway, seeing as you are obviously a more financially versed man than I, perhaps you can enlighten me as to whether the cost / benefit of the French approach to mass immigration in the mid-20th century has proven positive over the years. How much more would it have cost to think a little bit harder about the effect of lumping hundreds of thousands of immigrants and how that might pan out in future? How much more would it have cost to build smaller and sparser blocks in different areas?

I presume, seeing as you were so quick to ridicule my point, that you can provide all the answers and figures with effortless ease. You may find though that the French simply never thought about the future impact. But what would I know, I'm just a Liberal.

10000maniacs

ArthurDayne wrote: »

I find it somewhat tragically comical that you believe that North African immigrants, whose countries were subjugated and oppressed under French colonial rule (like ours was under the British), who took a chance to get some work in France, who helped rebuild France, and who were then left unemployed in neighbourhoods where the French authorities made no real efforts to integrate them (and then of course deemed simply 'lazy ungrateful immigrants' by folks of your persuasions) should have been more appreciative to their former imperial colonisers?! Perhaps I should give up my attempts at growing a magic money tree out back and start devoting my efforts to a time machine, so you can stand down at a windswept docks in 1845 and tell Irish people heading to Liverpool how grateful they should be to the British taxpayer!

God, I always do enjoy the 'you darn liberals' outbursts. Liberalism is the very force which has made Ireland a better place; it is the force which has dragged Ireland out of the shadow of the Church and conservative backwardness; it is the very thing which we are trying to defend in Ireland. So, as someone who has never really labelled himself, if I am a Liberal as you say -- then I am honoured by your compliment.

Anyway, seeing as you are obviously a more financially versed man than I, perhaps you can enlighten me as to whether the cost / benefit of the French approach to mass immigration in the mid-20th century has proven positive over the years. How much more would it have cost to think a little bit harder about the effect of lumping hundreds of thousands of immigrants and how that might pan out in future? How much more would it have cost to build smaller and sparser blocks in different areas?

I presume, seeing as you were so quick to ridicule my point, that you can provide all the answers and figures with effortless ease. You may find though that the French simply never thought about the future impact. But what would I know, I'm just a Liberal.

So Irish migrants to Liverpool in 1845 were entitled to the dole and a roof over their heads? If you read your history books you will find that they were not.
There were no liberal money trees in those days. The Irish migrants had to build their lives from literally nothing. There was no disaffection or anger with our starving ancestors, they just approached their situations with sheer graft, guts and realism. Maybe the current batch of liberals will learn something from their ancestors. That in a fair society everybody should make a contribution.

ArthurDayne

10000maniacs wrote: »

So Irish migrants to Liverpool in 1845 were entitled to the dole and a roof over their heads? If you read your history books you will find that they were not.
There were no liberal money trees in those days. The Irish migrants had to build their lives from literally nothing. There was no disaffection or anger with our starving ancestors, they just approached their situations with sheer graft, guts and realism. Maybe the current batch of liberals will learn something from their ancestors. That in a fair society everybody should make a contribution.

It is strange that you ridiculed my point as nothing more than the fanciful pipedreams of a liberal but, when offered the chance to demonstrate why I am so clearly wrong, you instead delve into another strange little speech about those darned lazy immigrants and liberals.

Were you too lazy to answer my questions?

10000maniacs

ArthurDayne wrote: »

It is strange that you ridiculed my point as nothing more than the fanciful pipedreams of a liberal but, when offered the chance to demonstrate why I am so clearly wrong, you instead delve into another strange little speech about those darned lazy immigrants and liberals.

Were you too lazy to answer my questions?

I think you lost your argument at Liverpool 1845.
Tootle lu.

A Pint of Goo

bubblypop wrote: »

How do they cover up rape statistics exactly?

1. Since 2005 they stopped recording the ethnicity of criminals. The last information available in 2005 showed migrants were over represented in the stats. Why should this be kept from the Swedish people, don't they have the right to know the effects of immigration on their country? Do Swedish women not have the right to know? Sweden boasts off having a feminist government after all. Why hide it?

And if, as we are told, there is no link between immigration and crime, why not show the stats (because the politicians would be exposed, gang rape in Sweden is directly related to migration for example).

2. The police and media cover up sexual assaults and rapes at music festivals committed by migrants (only came out after the awful events in Germany on NYE)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival

3. The Swedish integration minister caught out lying that the numbers of rapes had decreased when it fact it had increased by 13%

https://www.thelocal.se/20170304/fake-news-minister-does-u-turn-on-comments-about-swedens-sex-crimes

4. A Swedish policeman, Peter Springare, threatened with a hate speech charge for writing on Facebook that the majority of the violent crime he was investigating is committed by migrants. The same policeman was recently pilloried for saying gang rape in Sweden is a migrant phenomenon, and guess what, he was right!

You can't understand how much I hate these sick politicians who put migration above protecting their own people.

Would you suggest that all Crimes should be reported to the public by describing the religion of the offender?
Or his nationality or ethnic background?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Would you suggest that all Crimes should be reported to the public by describing the religion of the offender?
Or his nationality or ethnic background?

It's quite clear that most people here think nationality is important when it comes to crime statistics, and most would like it included.

We're just going around in circles here with your ridiculous questions pretending you couldn't possibly fathom why anyone would ever want that.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's quite clear that most people here think nationality is important when it comes to crime statistics, and most would like it included.

We're just going around in circles here with your ridiculous questions pretending you couldn't possibly fathom why anyone would ever want that.

But that's the problem. The law doesn't & shouldn't see race, colour etc. It should see offenders or Victims, regardless of anything else.

Maybe it's hard for people to understand, but would you want a racist police force?
Racial profiling has worked really well.....

& I don't see what someones religion has to do with them being a criminal. A criminal is a criminal, doesn't matter about his religion.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

But that's the problem. The law doesn't & shouldn't see race, colour etc. It should see offenders or Victims, regardless of anything else.

Maybe it's hard for people to understand, but would you want a racist police force?
Racial profiling has worked really well.....

& I don't see what someones religion has to do with them being a criminal. A criminal is a criminal, doesn't matter about his religion.

Religion hasn't been an aspect of this sub-discussion regarding crime statistics since I joined it two days ago. We're arguing that nationality is a statistical fact, not a belief or a skin colour, or a gender, or anything else that could offend.

Plenty of countries include it in their statistics. You should want it included so you can the stats in our faces and call us idiots.


"Maybe it's hard for people to understand, but would you want a racist police force?
Racial profiling has worked really well....."

We've already discussed the fact that police have this information. How could it make them racist, if they already have it?

And stop trying to suggest I want a racist police force. That's infantile arguing and makes you look really really stupid.

murphthesmurf

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

1. Since 2005 they stopped recording the ethnicity of criminals. The last information available in 2005 showed migrants were over represented in the stats. Why should this be kept from the Swedish people, don't they have the right to know the effects of immigration on their country? Do Swedish women not have the right to know? Sweden boasts off having a feminist government after all. Why hide it?

And if, as we are told, there is no link between immigration and crime, why not show the stats (because the politicians would be exposed, gang rape in Sweden is directly related to migration for example).

2. The police and media cover up sexual assaults and rapes at music festivals committed by migrants (only came out after the awful events in Germany on NYE)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival

3. The Swedish integration minister caught out lying that the numbers of rapes had decreased when it fact it had increased by 13%

https://www.thelocal.se/20170304/fake-news-minister-does-u-turn-on-comments-about-swedens-sex-crimes

4. A Swedish policeman, Peter Springare, threatened with a hate speech charge for writing on Facebook that the majority of the violent crime he was investigating is committed by migrants. The same policeman was recently pilloried for saying gang rape in Sweden is a migrant phenomenon, and guess what, he was right!

You can't understand how much I hate these sick politicians who put migration above protecting their own people.

Sweden has become a hell hole. Mumford & Sons will no longer perform at music festivals in Sweden due to the amount of sexual assaults and lack of action.
Migrant gangs go to festivals purely to assault/rape Swedish women. They surround an individual so as security and bystanders can't intervene while they assault them, then move on to the next victim. Animals.
The link between Muslim migrants and sexual assault/rape is echoed accross Europe. It's not a minority, it's a significant proportion.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And stop trying to suggest I want a racist police force. That's infantile arguing and makes you look really really stupid.

Actually, suggesting that someone's nationality matters whether they are a criminal or not, sounds stupid to me.
A criminal is a criminal, doesn't matter where they are from.
I would suggest the personal abuse is because you know I am right.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Actually, suggesting that someone's nationality matters whether they are a criminal or not, sounds stupid to me.
A criminal is a criminal, doesn't matter where they are from.
I would suggest the personal abuse is because you know I am right.

No, the "personal abuse" is because you've read some guidebook somewhere that said "Always try to make them out to be a racist, even if it means forfeiting your own intelligence by arguing like a child."


Your only reason for not including nationality is that we're all special and lovely people, even the criminals, and we shouldn't be known by stupid made-up labels like I don't know, the country written on our passports.

PlaneSpeeking

bubblypop wrote: »

Actually, suggesting that someone's nationality matters whether they are a criminal or not, sounds stupid to me.
A criminal is a criminal, doesn't matter where they are from.
I would suggest the personal abuse is because you know I am right.

I must disagree.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I must disagree.

Really, why though?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, the "personal abuse" is because you've read some guidebook somewhere that said "Always try to make them out to be a racist, even if it means forfeiting your own intelligence by arguing like a child."


Your only reason for not including nationality is that we're all special and lovely people, even the criminals, and we shouldn't be known by stupid made-up labels like I don't know, the country written on our passports.

You really quite aggressive!
No, I don't call people racist unless they are racist.
Neither do I judge people on anything other than their actions.

PlaneSpeeking

bubblypop wrote: »

Really, why though?

Well, just off the top of my head - if there is a surge in property burglaries e.g. in D7 (I'm using that as an example - I'm not singling out an area per se) then it may be an indicator that more resources are needed there, whether security measures or Garda prescence.

Also, if a particular crime is carried out by a particular nationality - again no specific crimes/nationalities here) then it is something that we need to know to influence immigration policy.

i don't believe any particular nationality is good/bad - certainly not our own but we mustn't be scared of simple data.

Gravelly

bubblypop wrote: »

You really quite aggressive!
No, I don't call people racist unless they are racist.
Neither do I judge people on anything other than their actions.

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Well, just off the top of my head - if there is a surge in property burglaries e.g. in D7 (I'm using that as an example - I'm not singling out an area per se) then it may be an indicator that more resources are needed there, whether security measures or Garda prescence.

Also, if a particular crime is carried out by a particular nationality - again no specific crimes/nationalities here) then it is something that we need to know to influence immigration policy.

i don't believe any particular nationality is good/bad - certainly not our own but we mustn't be scared of simple data.

Germany was forced to provide training for certain ethnicities to teach them not to grope, molest, and rape women and girls, based on their initial experience with the teachers and engineers refugees they accepted - based on bubblypop's logic, that shouldn't have been done, and it would be better to allow the groping, molestation, and rape to continue rather than face facts.

PlaneSpeeking

Gravelly wrote: »

Germany was forced to provide training for certain ethnicities to teach them not to grope, molest, and rape women and girls, based on their initial experience with the teachers and engineers refugees they accepted - based on bubblypop's logic, that shouldn't have been done, and it would be better to allow the groping, molestation, and rape to continue rather than face facts.

That's actually another good point. I do believe if people need help then it should be extended BUT I wouldn't dream of going to a friend's house and walking dog mess into the carpet and helping myself to their booze.

If you're a guest, act respectfully to your hosts. I know that is a simplification but you get my drift.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Well, just off the top of my head - if there is a surge in property burglaries e.g. in D7 (I'm using that as an example - I'm not singling out an area per se) then it may be an indicator that more resources are needed there, whether security measures or Garda prescence.

Also, if a particular crime is carried out by a particular nationality - again no specific crimes/nationalities here) then it is something that we need to know to influence immigration policy.

i don't believe any particular nationality is good/bad - certainly not our own but we mustn't be scared of simple data.

That data is available, you can get it online. The cso release crime statistics on Garda records every year.
The only thing you cannot check by is people's nationality.
For example, you cannot look up how many French people committed crime here in 2016.
You can see where crime is committed, whether offenders are repeat offenders or first time etc

Gravelly

Gravelly wrote: »

Germany was forced to provide training for certain ethnicities to teach them not to grope, molest, and rape women and girls, based on their initial experience with the teachers and engineers refugees they accepted - based on bubblypop's logic, that shouldn't have been done, and it would be better to allow the groping, molestation, and rape to continue rather than face facts.

Nope, I don't believe I ever said that immigrants into Ireland should not have classes.
In fact I think it should be compulsory for anyone moving to a new country to do social & language classes for a certain time.
& I include Irish people living abroad in that.
I don't see anything wrong with knowledge

Gravelly

bubblypop wrote: »

Nope, I don't believe I ever said that immigrants into Ireland should not have classes.
In fact I think it should be compulsory for anyone moving to a new country to do social & language classes for a certain time.
& I include Irish people living abroad in that.
I don't see anything wrong with knowledge

Every immigrant? You think the German, Spanish, and French that come here to work in Google or Facebook need to be taught not to molest girls at the swimming pool, or grope women on the Luas?

Like I've said about you already, you are just not honest.