Is Islam right for Ireland?

Captain Obvious

thebull85 wrote: »

Exactly, we dont have Tigers roaming free in Ireland.

They're in the zoo. When someone starts throwing tigers at me I'll worry about them. Likewise, if someone tries to subject people to Sharia law against their will in Ireland I'll worry about it.

Gehad_JoyRider

Is any religion right for a country?
All it seem's to do, is cause more trouble than its worth? IMO

Zebra3

Will I Am Not wrote: »

It’s funny how so many won’t have a problem with you branding that religion and it’s followers on the back of some heinous deeds done by its members. But if you start to do the same with Islam...

Way to avoid condemning the violence and women hating attitude of Christianity.

Zebra3

10000maniacs wrote: »

So two wrongs make a right?

Nobody said it did, so why ask such a stupid question?

p1akuw47h5r3it

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Is there anyone on this thread arguing that Sharia law would be a good thing? Nobody is advocating for it. Why do you keep arguing it's negative points?



Nobody is arguing for unsustainable immigration. The difference is over what people deem sustainable.

Well obviously, Captain :P . I believe post number 56 sums up quite well what is a sustainable Muslim population for a country to have i.e under 2% before real problems start to occur. Ireland is expected to hit 5 per cent within the next 25 years.

thebull85

Captain Obvious wrote: »

They're in the zoo. When someone starts throwing tigers at me I'll worry about them. Likewise, if someone tries to subject people to Sharia law against their will in Ireland I'll worry about it.

Ok so, we will wait till it becomes a problem before we do anything about it. Sounds very familiar that.

weldoninhio

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And it's an attitude that shouldn't be accepted. That's why we have legal protections against discrimination.



Gay marriage, divorce and abortion are all examples of this country successfully defying religious interference and tradition. Why do you think we'll suddenly stop doing that because of some Muslims moving to the country?

The average muslim family in the UK is having more kids than the average non-muslim family. So while there may be laws now, what happens when Muslims have a majority and can vote out these progressive laws we have enacted?? It may not happen tomorrow, but would you like your grandchildren, great grandchildren growing up in the European version of Basra or Mosul??

weldoninhio

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Would this democracy be better than our current democracy?

Depends, are you a fan of the democracy currently in the ME??

thebull85

weldoninhio wrote: »

The average muslim family in the UK is having more kids than the average non-muslim family. So while there may be laws now, what happens when Muslims have a majority and can vote out these progressive laws we have enacted?? It may not happen tomorrow, but would you like your grandchildren, great grandchildren growing up in the European version of Basra or Mosul??

He most likely wont care because its not going affect him. That seems to be the general consensus around here.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

The average muslim family in the UK is having more kids than the average non-muslim family. So while there may be laws now, what happens when Muslims have a majority and can vote out these progressive laws we have enacted?? It may not happen tomorrow, but would you like your grandchildren, great grandchildren growing up in the European version of Basra or Mosul??

I currently live in a muslim country.
they have perfectly reasonable laws, like home.

Captain Obvious

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Well obviously, Captain :P . I believe post number 56 sums up quite well what is a sustainable Muslim population for a country to have i.e under 2% before real problems start to occur. Ireland is expected to hit 5 per cent within the next 25 years.

Post 56 is just someones opinion, someone clearly terrified of any change at all.

thebull85 wrote: »

Ok so, we will wait till it becomes a problem before we do anything about it. Sounds very familiar that.

Build yourself a bunker if you'd feel safer.

weldoninhio wrote: »

The average muslim family in the UK is having more kids than the average non-muslim family. So while there may be laws now, what happens when Muslims have a majority and can vote out these progressive laws we have enacted?? It may not happen tomorrow, but would you like your grandchildren, great grandchildren growing up in the European version of Basra or Mosul??

What makes you think their grandchildren will be extreme Muslims?

bladespin

Gehad_JoyRider wrote: »

Is any religion right for a country?
All it seem's to do, is cause more trouble than its worth? IMO

Nail on the head there.

To be clear, most of the sensational headlines are made by extremeist loonies (they have them, so do we), who have as much to do with 'normal' islam as they do with Jehovah witnesses.

Harika

weldoninhio wrote: »

The average muslim family in the UK is having more kids than the average non-muslim family. So while there may be laws now, what happens when Muslims have a majority and can vote out these progressive laws we have enacted?? It may not happen tomorrow, but would you like your grandchildren, great grandchildren growing up in the European version of Basra or Mosul??

That has been shown to not happening, as when Muslims grow up in Europe, they tend to take the liberalism on board. See the generations of Turkish people in Germany. Also with higher education they are getting less children https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/29/muslim-population-in-europe-could-more-than-double
So until 2050 the population will double to a whooping 20%, thats 32 years down the road and a lot will happen until then.

weldoninhio

Zebra3 wrote: »

Our “Christian heritage”?

Priests raping kids? Sounds like something that would happen in Derby, Telford, Newcastle, Luton minus the priests.

Women locked up in slave labour camps (many of them rape victims) for having a child outside marriage? What happens to Muslim women that are raped?? Stoned, and not the nice mellow way.

A total disregard for democracy like under the unspoken McQuaid dictatorship?

The above historical claims sound eerily familiar in the context of a modern day religion.

Summer In the City

bubblypop wrote: »

I currently live in a muslim country.
they have perfectly reasonable laws, like home.

This is too much for some of these lads to fathom. I'd love for them to actually visit one of these countries, meet people and then justify their standpoint.

thebull85

Summer In the City wrote: »

This is too much for some of these lads to fathom. I'd love for them to actually visit one of these countries, meet people and then justify their standpoint.

You not going to respond to the question i asked you?

The_Kew_Tour

Muslims in Dubai are totally different to ones in Islamabad for example, in general, from being to the 2 places.

Comparing them is like comparing Apples and oranges.

Look at what even New Zealand did with buying houses. Even they had enough.

Bringing them in slowly is way to go. The current system across Europe is already showing signs that its very bad, and not getting better soon.

weldoninhio

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Post 56 is just someones opinion, someone clearly terrified of any change at all.



Build yourself a bunker if you'd feel safer.



What makes you think their grandchildren will be extreme Muslims?

Aren't we told currently that most of these "lone wolves" terrorists are 2nd and 3rd generation muslims??

Wasn't "He wasn't a refugee, he was a 2nd/3rd generation British/French/German citizen" the rallying call after Berlin, Bataclan, Nice etc??

But i'm sure Ireland will get all the "nice" muslims, only doctors and engineers coming over here. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

up for anything

TheManTheMyth wrote: »

personally i was very pro migrant about a year (maybe a year and a half) ago but have completely 180'd on the topic

Yeah right! :rolleyes:

eeguy

thebull85 wrote: »

No they dont have exclusive rights on it, but look at the rise of sex attacks and terrorism since Germany opened wide their doors. Its been a huge rise!

Again ill say if we can avoid this we should.

Do you not agree?

Have they? This report says otherwise.
https://www.thelocal.de/20170427/anything-but-dramatic-what-the-new-german-crime-report-really-means

he frequency rate of crimes in actually sank by about 0.5 percent, down from 7,797 crimes per 100,000 residents in 2015, to 7,755 crimes per 100,000 people in 2016. And when excluding crimes that related to immigration policy violations - such as illegal stay or entry - the overall number of crimes dropped by 0.7 percent.

Looking back over the years, the frequency rate has generally hovered between 7,500 and 8,000 crimes per 100,000, reaching a high of 8,337 per 100,000 residents in 1993.

“It is the same each year: the Interior Ministry publishes the police statistics and the media reports it as if it were a report on actual criminality,” Singelnstein said.

The survey further showed that ethnic German teens were twice as likely to report an attack on them if it had been carried out by someone with a migrant background than if it had been carried out by a German.

“It’s quite plausible that if you perceive someone to be a stranger, you might be more likely to report them,” Drenkhahn said.

Singelnstein further explained that “foreign-looking people are subject to more stringent social controls”.

“Also police are more sensitive to controlling these groups,” he added.

“Males under 30 have higher prevalence in general of being found in these statistics as suspects all over the Western world, and if you have a specific subgroup where a large proportion fits these criteria, then you will have an elevated proportion of this subgroup in the statistics,” explains Drenkhahn.

So not only are crimes down, Muslims are being profiled and are more likely to be reported.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

I currently live in a muslim country.
they have perfectly reasonable laws, like home.

Strange how all these muslim "refugees" aren't going to all these perfectly reasonable muslim countries, rather than flooding Europe.

10000maniacs

Zebra3 wrote: »

Nobody said it did, so why ask such a stupid question?

So instead of introducing 60 year old Bishop John McQuaid hyperbole into the discussion, try staying on topic.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Post 56 is just someones opinion, someone clearly terrified of any change at all.



Build yourself a bunker if you'd feel safer.



What makes you think their grandchildren will be extreme Muslims?

We should all be terrified f that change is going to potentially undue all the hard won rights for minorities and women over the last number of years.

Harika

weldoninhio wrote: »

Strange how all these muslim "refugees" aren't going to all these perfectly reasonable muslim countries, rather than flooding Europe.

They were and still are predominately, until in 2015 European countries stopped paying funding those refugee camps. Without food or future they decided to come to Europe.

The_Kew_Tour

weldoninhio wrote: »

Strange how all these muslim "refugees" aren't going to all these perfectly reasonable muslim countries, rather than flooding Europe.

You would wonder why they aint going to Dubai alight.

weldoninhio

Harika wrote: »

They were and still are predominately, until in 2015 European countries stopped paying funding those refugee camps. Without food or future they decided to come to Europe.

Isn't Europe terrible for not paying for the rest of the world's bills. Shame on us.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Harika wrote: »

They were and still are predominately, until in 2015 European countries stopped paying funding those refugee camps. Without food or future they decided to come to Europe.

Why is it Europe's responsibility to fund anything of the sort?

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Strange how all these muslim "refugees" aren't going to all these perfectly reasonable muslim countries, rather than flooding Europe.

is it?
why should they want to go to a specifically muslim country?

eeguy

weldoninhio wrote: »

Strange how all these muslim "refugees" aren't going to all these perfectly reasonable muslim countries, rather than flooding Europe.

Look at the map.

The US and UK has made sh*t of many of the Muslim countries over the last decade.
If you're a Muslim living anywhere from Algeria to Afghanistan and fleeing on foot, your options are the Sahara desert, the deserts of northern Saudi Arabia, the mountains of Pakistan, the steppe of China and Kazakstan, or Europe.

Where would you go?

Harika

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why is it Europe's responsibility to fund anything of the sort?

It is not, just then be aware of the effects from that.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

is it?
why should they want to go to a specifically muslim country?

Similar customs, same religion, some would have the same languages, similar lifestyle, similar culture.

Same reasons a lot of Irish people head to Canada, America and Australia.

_CreeD_

TheManTheMyth wrote: »

degrading women and gay people all across Europe

You mean just like Christian organised religions?

People are constantly looking for excuses to group up and be assholes, religion is just one of them.

weldoninhio

eeguy wrote: »

Look at the map.

The US and UK has made sh*t of many of the Muslim countries over the last decade.
If you're a Muslim living anywhere from Algeria to Afghanistan and fleeing on foot, your options are the Sahara desert, the deserts of northern Saudi Arabia, the mountains of Pakistan, the steppe of China and Kazakstan, or Europe.

Where would you go?

Thats some serious milage on foot. And their only option in the Muslim world are deserts, but they can make it across oceans to Europe?? Thats a serious fairytale.

p1akuw47h5r3it

_CreeD_ wrote: »

You mean just like Christian organised religions?

People are constantly looking for excuses to group up and be assholes, religion is just one of them.

Ye great. We don't like them either. The point is Islam is a minority religion in Europe.

The_Kew_Tour

eeguy wrote: »

Look at the map.

The US and UK has made sh*t of many of the Muslim countries over the last decade.
If you're a Muslim living anywhere from Algeria to Afghanistan and fleeing on foot, your options are the Sahara desert, the deserts of northern Saudi Arabia, the mountains of Pakistan, the steppe of China and Kazakstan, or Europe.

Where would you go?

Dubai

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Similar customs, same religion, some would have the same languages, similar lifestyle, similar culture.

Same reasons a lot of Irish people head to Canada, America and Australia.

I dont believe thats true, there are many different customs, languages and cultures in the over 50 different muslim countries of the world.

Captain Obvious

DanDan6592 wrote: »

We should all be terrified f that change is going to potentially undue all the hard won rights for minorities and women over the last number of years.

And if that ever becomes a remote possibility I'll start to worry about it.

Harika

bubblypop wrote: »

I dont believe thats true, there are many different customs, languages and cultures in the over 50 different muslim countries of the world.

One of the reasons of refugees to come to Europe is and was having family or friends here who told them how great Europe is compared to the majority of muslim countries. Working legal/health system, basically no corruption and by working illegally as unskilled worker they earn more in a month than they would get at home for working at home legally as skilled worker in a year.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

I dont believe thats true, there are many different customs, languages and cultures in the over 50 different muslim countries of the world.

I'd imagine there are but not every one of the 50 countries is going to be alien to them. But i'd guarantee the customs, languages and cultures in the muslim countries are a lot closer to what they are used to than the customs, languages and cultures in Europe.

eeguy

eeguy wrote: »

Look at the map.

The US and UK has made sh*t of many of the Muslim countries over the last decade.
If you're a Muslim living anywhere from Algeria to Afghanistan and fleeing on foot, your options are the Sahara desert, the deserts of northern Saudi Arabia, the mountains of Pakistan, the steppe of China and Kazakstan, or Europe.

Where would you go?

Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia, and even Thailand. I've been to all of these countries and they're all reasonably good countries with very strong Islamic communities. I'd skip Dubai since they're incredibly wealth conscious and pretty racist to anyone not from Dubai itself. They could also go to many of the countries in Africa (various Islamic presence), Asia (also various Islamic presence), or South America which might not be very prosperous but can provide a decent standard of living, especially if you have the skills/education to back you up.

But if I wanted a fresh start in a place that would pay me just to be there. Definitely the west.

Sonics2k

RandomName2 wrote: »

Name a Muslim country where homosexuality is legal.

All sexual orientations are legal in Bahrain, Cyprus, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_the_Middle_East

Summer In the City

thebull85 wrote: »

You not going to respond to the question i asked you?

The really dumb one about not letting any Muslims in to Ireland just in case? No, I'm not.

kumate_champ07

10000maniacs wrote: »

Shut down the debate with hyperbole, mistruth and deflection, why don't you? I'm surprised you didn't use the word islamophobia in your post too.
If you don't know whether the OP is a troll or not, don't bring it up.

youre proving my doubts over the usefulness of internet forums for proper discussions when its difficult to know if a person with a total of 8 posts might be trolling, or when a person is so blind they only see what they want to see


did you not see my previous immediate comment about gang rape? its not exactly a popular subject to discuss with the risk of being labeled Islamophobic

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

the vast majority of Muslims dont cause any problem, but there are groups of young men who see western society as a playground for them and view us as inferior.
eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes


Taharrush gamea- it's supposed to be some kind of mass sexual assualt/groping ritual, it might be considered as 'old testament' and rejected by most Muslims, Im not really sure, the right has clinged on to it for use in their Anti Muslim rhetoric , so its difficult to know how much of it is true,

for the links below Ive avoided the dailymail and braitbart, but also huffpost because it seemed to go the total opposite direction with its reporting

https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/31622/they-call-it-taharrush-gamea/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_sexual_assault_in_Egypt

thebull85

Sonics2k wrote: »

All sexual orientations are legal in Bahrain, Cyprus, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_the_Middle_East

How good of them to allow people to express their sexuality.

The Backwards Man

If some of ye were as handy with a turf spade as ye are blowing hysterical hot air we'd be the energy capital of the world.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And if that ever becomes a remote possibility I'll start to worry about it.

So you mean when it's too late. Fantastic. The kick the can down the road mentality.

TheManTheMyth

What's sad is that those kids aren't even radical Muslims. They're moderate at the most.

Grayson

thebull85 wrote: »

Do you even know what sharia law is? And are you really comparing it to canon law?

I know full well what it is. I've studied the theology and philosophy of both islam and christianity.
In many ways, especially in the west they are very similar. There are some big differences though. Each country has it's own council which issues guidance on sharia. The countries quite often disagree. That's why you'll see a huge difference between saudi and other muslim countries. Saudi are a very extreme version. Whereas in christianity the largest denomination is the catholic church so that means that there's more homogeneity.

In the west when it comes to the integration of sharia with civil law it's treated that same as christianity.

Now as I said, as a secularist I don't want to see religious organisations having too much legal power but I'm not opposed to the basics.

Grayson

jmayo wrote: »

Eh wasn't Humprhys the guy that had the video of the Halawa's up on stage at a muslim brotherhood protest ?
The video that disappeared elsewhere and proved embarrassing because it was the truth about what they were up to.

I honestly have no idea what you're referring to.

Zebra3

10000maniacs wrote: »

So instead of introducing 60 year old Bishop John McQuaid hyperbole into the discussion, try staying on topic.

Ironic.

There’s morons on here banging on about Sharia Law in Ireland and to dodge dealing with the crimes of Christianity you claim I’m endulging in hyperbole.

Let’s arrest those RC officials who helped paedo priests avoid detection. Let’s end tax breaks for all religions.

Then we’ll deal with the big, bad muzza threat. :rolleyes: