Is Islam right for Ireland?

The Highwayman

K.Flyer wrote: »

Some mosques in the U.K. do not allow women.
Most mosques, women are to enter through a side door, Clonskeagh included.
Women are not allowed pray amongst the men in the main prayer hall, they must be at the back, on a balcony area or else they pray in a seperate area.

Are they in the mosque? I didn't say what door they use or where they stand, ARE THEY IN THE MOSQUE???????????

Yes?

(also, do you not know how to use spell checker?)

weldoninhio

The Highwayman wrote: »

Are they in the mosque? I didn't say what door they use or where they stand, ARE THEY IN THE MOSQUE???????????

Yes?

(also, do you not know how to use spell checker?)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35666450

No they are not allowed in.

Diversity for Hire

I don't need Islam to culturally enrich my country. If I want to experience diversity I'll go the local Chinese, that's enough for me.

Omackeral

Diversity for Hire wrote: »

If I want to experience diversity I'll go the local Chinese, that's enough for me.

I think the Ming Dynasty were famed for their love of chicken balls, spice bags and 3 in 1's.

The Highwayman

weldoninhio wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35666450

No they are not allowed in.

1 mosque? Saudi let women drive for the first time a few days ago, would it be fair to say women were not allowed to drive anywhere in the world up to this week? After all there was 1 nation where they couldn't. See how stupid your example is?

The existence of mosques like this are an example of the hate muslim men have for all women but in islam women can enter a mosque.

Beechwoodspark

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The Kilkenny Journal and Eugene McGuinness [who is looking to run for County Council next year.

https://www.facebook.com/KilkennyJournal/posts/1703449069722426?comment_id=1703809089686424&notif_id=1529989836519971&notif_t=feed_comment_reply

What’s this craic about running some sort of butcher /abbatoir business in the building along with the mosque itself

JohnMc1

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

What’s this craic about running some sort of butcher /abbatoir business in the building along with the mosque itself

The photo doesn't do it justice. Its a huge plot of land. It goes up a hill to where the local Aldi's is and then it stretches behind the Animal Veterinary Hospital and comes out between the hospital and tire garage. I don't know how much of the land they want to buy [rumors are the are going to pay $350-$500K for it so it could be the whole thing] The plans included a cafe and halal butchers, islamic school and an apartment complex for 2,000 and the Mosque at the top of the Hill next to Aldi's with 70ft Minarets [they'll cast a huge shadow over the cemetery and most of the town]Sounds like they want their own community in one fell swoop.

thebull85

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The photo doesn't do it justice. Its a huge plot of land. It goes up a hill to where the local Aldi's is and then it stretches behind the Animal Veterinary Hospital and comes out between the hospital and tire garage. I don't know how much of the land they want to buy [rumors are the are going to pay $350-$500K for it so it could be the whole thing] The plans included a cafe and halal butchers, islamic school and an apartment complex for 2,000 and the Mosque at the top of the Hill next to Aldi's with 70ft Minarets [they'll cast a huge shadow over the cemetery and most of the town]Sounds like they want their own community in one fell swoop.

Id hate to live anywhere near that, thank fook i dont.

JohnMc1

thebull85 wrote: »

Id hate to live anywhere near that, thank fook i dont.

Its definitely going to be a nightmare. My Dad is buried in the cemetery across the road from the proposed site. There won't be a bit of peace in there since the plan to hold the call to prayers during the times where burials normally take place and during the time the annual cemetery mass takes place.

Might be a good time to start looking to move.

weldoninhio

The Highwayman wrote: »

1 mosque? Saudi let women drive for the first time a few days ago, would it be fair to say women were not allowed to drive anywhere in the world up to this week? After all there was 1 nation where they couldn't. See how stupid your example is?

The existence of mosques like this are an example of the hate muslim men have for all women but in islam women can enter a mosque.

The mosque in question is in an EU nation, and our nearest neighbour, not Saudi. The poster you replied to had said there were “some” Male only Mosque. You went on a CAPS BINGE about women being allowed use the back door to enter.

You’ve been proven wrong. Take it on the chin.

Odhinn

weldoninhio wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35666450

No they are not allowed in.

That's highly unusual. Generally women are allowed in.

Lux23

I think the issue I have with Islam is that we are only starting to shake off the clutches of the Catholic Church and I don't particularly want another group of pious eegits trying to influence our laws or state. I hope that our status as a secular state is cemented in the coming years, so religion can't affect our schools or hospitals.

thebull85

Interesting interview here with Cllr Brian Murphy, Niall Boylan starting to wake up it seems...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRNnRu8Y_D8

James Brown

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Still, it might be helpful to at least talk about these issues without being labelled a racist or somesuch.:rolleyes:

We should also discuss the jews.

Wha?

No religion in political life.
Take individuals as you find them.

Iraqi twin brothers went on trial Tuesday in Finland over their alleged role in a 2014 massacre of up to 1,700 unarmed recruits by the Islamic State group in Iraq.

The 24-year-old brothers, who came to Finland as asylum seekers in September 2015 and were arrested a few months later, have pleaded not guilty to the charges.

One of the two brothers is believed to appear in a propaganda video later released by the Islamic State group (IS), shooting dead at least 11 prisoners who had been forced to lay down in a hole on the ground for execution.

The twins look so much alike that the prosecutor has been unable to identify which of the two may appear in the video, opting instead to charge them both for an unspecified number of murders.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/finland-tries-twins-over-massacre-iraq-183009545.html

Two twins suspected of participation in a notorious massacre in Tikrit, Iraq in 2014 have been freed by a court in Tampere, Finland after a complicated, four month trial.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/iraqi_twins_freed_after_tampere_isis_terror_trial/9630142

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Speicher_massacre

Madagascan

The Highwayman wrote: »

weldoninhio wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35666450

No they are not allowed in.

1 mosque? Saudi let women drive for the first time a few days ago, would it be fair to say women were not allowed to drive anywhere in the world up to this week? After all there was 1 nation where they couldn't. See how stupid your example is?

The existence of mosques like this are an example of the hate muslim men have for all women but in islam women can enter a mosque.

They are allowed to drive with the permision of their Men and only during certain times.

JupiterKid

Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the secular way of life in the West. Fundamentally so. Ireland is releasing itself from the grip of Catholic Church theocracy, do we want to be replaced by a harsher, more violent one?

old_aussie

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The photo doesn't do it justice. Its a huge plot of land. It goes up a hill to where the local Aldi's is and then it stretches behind the Animal Veterinary Hospital and comes out between the hospital and tire garage. I don't know how much of the land they want to buy [rumors are the are going to pay $350-$500K for it so it could be the whole thing] The plans included a cafe and halal butchers, islamic school and an apartment complex for 2,000 and the Mosque at the top of the Hill next to Aldi's with 70ft Minarets [they'll cast a huge shadow over the cemetery and most of the town]Sounds like they want their own community in one fell swoop.

Ireland's first "no go" area?

Yamanoto

Lux23 wrote: »

I think the issue I have with Islam is that we are only starting to shake off the clutches of the Catholic Church and I don't particularly want another group of pious eegits trying to influence our laws or state. I hope that our status as a secular state is cemented in the coming years, so religion can't affect our schools or hospitals.

I wouldn't focus your unease solely on Islam.

There's been a phenomenal rise in the number of Evangelical & Pentacostal churches popping up - often in incongruous spots like industrial estates, serving Nigerian & Brazilian congregations in particular. Their brand of old time religion makes Catholicism seem mighty progressive by comparison & you can be sure they'll increasingly seek to have those views reflected in social policy.

weldoninhio

Yamanoto wrote: »

I wouldn't focus your unease solely on Islam.

There's been a phenomenal rise in the number of Evangelical & Pentacostal churches popping up - often in incongruous spots like industrial estates, serving Nigerian & Brazilian congregations in particular. Their brand of old time religion makes Catholicism seem mighty progressive by comparison & you can be sure they'll increasingly seek to have those views reflected in social policy.

When was the last Evangelical or Pentecostal massacre in Europe??

Yamanoto

weldoninhio wrote: »

When was the last Evangelical or Pentecostal massacre in Europe??

The poster I quoted was talking specifically about the influence religion & the religious can have on social policy - any security issue one might have with Islam is moot in that context.

JohnMc1

old_aussie wrote: »

Ireland's first "no go" area?

Definitely will be if it goes through.

WinnyThePoo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Definitely will be if it goes through.

Are you from Ireland yourself?

AllForIt

JupiterKid wrote: »

Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the secular way of life in the West. Fundamentally so. Ireland is releasing itself from the grip of Catholic Church theocracy, do we want to be replaced by a harsher, more violent one?

This is just raw unadulterated common sense.

I was listening to a UK radio talk show last night and the presenter is a multicultural fanatic. He would categorize your opinion JK as extremist anti-muslim.

I don't know what it is about some ppl who are otherwise completely rational where when it comes to multiculturalism they take leave of their senses. He happens to have Jewish heritage so that might account for his brain seizure on the issue

https://twitter.com/MatthewStadlen/status/1012840631344029697.

JohnMc1

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Are you from Ireland yourself?

I was born in NY, parents are from Callan, Kilkenny and I've been living in Kilkenny since 2005. Does it really matter?

K.Flyer

The Highwayman wrote: »

Are they in the mosque? I didn't say what door they use or where they stand, ARE THEY IN THE MOSQUE???????????

Yes?

(also, do you not know how to use spell checker?)

Hysterical much :pac:
Still doesn't change the truth of the misogynist attitude amongst most Muslim men towards women.
And big swinging mickey, they have Just allowed women to drive on their own, big whoopy do da, it's about time.
Maybe when they change some of their other attitudes towards human rights and get with the 21st century I might join in the applause.

You do realise that pointing out someone's minor spelling error during a discussion makes you look like you know you are loosing your argument and comes across as rather pathetic.

WinnyThePoo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I was born in NY, parents are from Callan, Kilkenny and I've been living in Kilkenny since 2005. Does it really matter?

So you've immigrated over here and now telling us we are going to have no go zone's. Kinda funny. Would you not feel safer back America?.

JohnMc1

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

So you've immigrated over here and now telling us we are going to have no go zone's. Kinda funny. Would you not feel safer back America?.

So you're whole idea of delegitimizing my posts is the "You weren't born so you don't have a right to an opinion"? That's sad.

Well Sweden has no-go zones, Germany has them, France has them, UK has them. Its blind arrogance or willful ignorance to think it won't happen in Ireland.

Captain Obvious

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I was born in NY, parents are from Callan, Kilkenny and I've been living in Kilkenny since 2005. Does it really matter?

What do you class as a no go area? I mean, we've places where Gardaí have to go in armed, places where Gardaí have been run over, places where Gardaí are regularly rammed and attacked. What do you see this Mosque bringing that will make it the "first no go area"?

WinnyThePoo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

So you're whole idea of delegitimizing my posts is the "You weren't born so you don't have a right to an opinion"? That's sad.

Well Sweden has no-go zones, Germany has them, France has them, UK has them. Its blind arrogance or willful ignorance to think it won't happen in Ireland.

Your coming to my country and telling me and us how we should live. Who we let in.Who we don't. Telling us our referendums are part of muslim conspiracy. If it goes over your head, I can't help you


Your theory of abortion being a guise for muslim domination was never backed up. Not that you where ever going to back that up, but please give a detailed account of all these no go areas.

JohnMc1

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What do you class as a no go area? I mean, we've places where Gardaí have to go in armed, places where Gardaí have been run over, places where Gardaí are regularly rammed and attacked. What do you see this Mosque bringing that will make it the "first no go area"?

No-Go Zones are areas where Sharia law is enforced [aka Women can't be out alone after a certain time,etc] If the whole plan goes through [mosque,apartment complex,etc] then its a safe bet that they'll want to start enforcing sharia law in the area.

JohnMc1

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Your coming to my country and telling me and us how we should live. Who we let in.Who we don't. Telling us our referendums are part of muslim conspiracy. If it goes over your head, I can't help you


Your theory of abortion being a guise for muslim domination was never backed up. Not that you where ever going to back that up, but please give a detailed account of all these no go areas.

Your posts reek of willful ignorance.

WinnyThePoo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Your posts reek of willful ignorance.

That's it?. So nothing again. Fair enough.

K.Flyer

K.Flyer wrote: »

And big swinging mickey, they have Just allowed women to drive on their own, big whoopy do da, it's about time.
Maybe when they change some of their other attitudes towards human rights and get with the 21st century I might join in the applause.
.

You do realise that is one country yes? Islam doesn't stop women driving, Saudi did.

JohnMc1

JohnMc1 wrote: »

No-Go Zones are areas where Sharia law is enforced [aka Women can't be out alone after a certain time,etc] If the whole plan goes through [mosque,apartment complex,etc] then its a safe bet that they'll want to start enforcing sharia law in the area.

And you think that Sharia law is going to take over from the laws of the land?
Really?

K.Flyer

bubblypop wrote: »

You do realise that is one country yes? Islam doesn't stop women driving, Saudi did.

Of course I do, my point was a reply in relation to Saudi.
What is slowly changing the wheels of thought in Saudi is their younger generation who are becoming more aware of the liberal western ways, particularly those travelling for education.

Captain Obvious

bubblypop wrote: »

And you think that Sharia law is going to take over from the laws of the land?
Really?

It's Project Fear. Let the Muslims in and they'll beat you til your woman covers up. They're living in a dystopian fantasy world. They'll pick out examples of Muslims doing bad things around Europe and act like it's the inevitable outcome for everyone.

K.Flyer wrote: »

Of course I do, my point was a reply in relation to Saudi.
What is slowly changing the wheels of thought in Saudi is their younger generation who are becoming more aware of the liberal western ways, particularly those travelling for education.

A great reason to encourage immigration to Europe. We set a fine example for the most part.

2 Scoops

Denmark implementing new laws to force integration

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html

"Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments..

Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled."

_Kaiser_

JupiterKid wrote: »

Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the secular way of life in the West. Fundamentally so. Ireland is releasing itself from the grip of Catholic Church theocracy, do we want to be replaced by a harsher, more violent one?

That's it in a nutshell.

I genuinely don't understand how people who've grown up in Ireland in the last 20-40 years can be advocating for a religion and system of law that is completely at odds with our way of life.

It's even more ironic that the biggest advocates for this idea are those whose lifestyles would be among the first to be affected if they actually get what they want.

I can only assume (as I've said on another thread) that it's really about virtue-signalling and backslapping from similarly-minded people that's driving them - something that seems to be a genuine NEED for some, as there is simply no rational logic or reason to the idea.

Brae100

2 Scoops wrote: »

Denmark implementing new laws to force integration

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html

"Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments..

Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled."

That's a very revealing article. Denmark would traditionally have been seen as a very liberal and progressive society have seemingly had enough.

Taytoland

2 Scoops wrote: »

Denmark implementing new laws to force integration

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html

"Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments..

Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled."

Rightly so.

Captain Obvious

2 Scoops wrote: »

Denmark implementing new laws to force integration

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html

"Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments..

Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled."

Can't see them holding up to any kind of legal challenge.

Brae100

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Can't see them holding up to any kind of legal challenge.

Regardless, it is interesting that a progressive society have deemed it necessary to take action. There's obviously a problem.

Taytoland

Brae100 wrote: »

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Can't see them holding up to any kind of legal challenge.

Regardless, it is interesting that a progressive society have deemed it necessary to take action. There's obviously a problem.

A blind man and his blind dog could see a problem with this. It's not rocket science.

2 Scoops

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Can't see them holding up to any kind of legal challenge.

So you'd prefer them not to integrate? What's your end game, I'm curious.

SnakePlissken

Captain Obvious wrote: »

A great reason to encourage immigration to Europe. We set a fine example for the most part.

Because it's gone so well for Germany, France, Italy, Sweden, The UK?

Name one positive attribute mass immigration from Muslim nations has brought to the everyday European man woman or child?

Hector Savage

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's Project Fear. Let the Muslims in and they'll beat you til your woman covers up. They're living in a dystopian fantasy world. They'll pick out examples of Muslims doing bad things around Europe and act like it's the inevitable outcome for everyone.





A great reason to encourage immigration to Europe. We set a fine example for the most part.

How incredibly naive ...

Hector Savage

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Can't see them holding up to any kind of legal challenge.

Typical, you are against it ...

Why would you be against proper integration and learning of western values ???

Hector Savage

2 Scoops wrote: »

So you'd prefer them not to integrate? What's your end game, I'm curious.

I'm sorry to say it, but I am convinced these "liberals" that support this are mentally ill ...

K.Flyer

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Can't see them holding up to any kind of legal challenge.

They are obviously very fed up with immigrants not wanting to integrate into the cultural norms of their country.
Denmark has always had very specific criteria for anyone who wants to come to settle down and it makes for interesting reading.

Citizenship:
How to get the Danish nationality

Nationality by naturalization
If you want to become a Danish citizen by naturalization, you will have to go through a complicated application process and fulfil a number of conditions. In order to apply for Danish nationality, you must have lived in Denmark for a certain number of years and have a permanent residence permit. If you do not have a permanent residence permit, you should apply for one at the Danish Immigration Service.

In most cases you will need to have lived in Denmark continuously for a minimum of 9 years to apply for citizenship. If you have refugee status in Denmark, you only need to have lived in Denmark for 8 years continuously.
[...]
Factors such as imprisonment will prevent you from being listed in a naturalisation bill. The same applies if you have overdue debt to public authorities.
You must also prove that you are able to support yourself, meaning you do not, and must not have, received any public benefits within the past year. You must also have been self-supportive for 4 years and 6 months out of the last 5 years before your application. State education grants and loans, anticipatory pensions or old-age pensions will not prevent you from obtaining Danish nationality.
You must prove your Danish skills by providing an examination certificate, as well as passing a citizenship test. The citizenship test will prove you have sufficient knowledge of Danish society, culture and history and you will be presented with a certificate if you pass.
You will also need to sign a declaration in which you pledge your allegiance and loyalty to Denmark and the Danish society, declare your willingness to observe Danish legislation and respect fundamental Danish principles of law. You will also have to disclose your criminal record in the form of a solemn declaration, whether committed in Denmark or abroad.