Is Islam right for Ireland?

ancapailldorcha

2 Scoops wrote: »

Grab a calculator if it helps, the crimes I cited like knife crime (up thousands) Theft (up + 10,000) aren't "small numbers". 35 of the 41 categories of crime have risen. Even the BBC can be honest, why can't you?

I find it odd that someone who was giddy about the prospect of rising violent crime is asking for honesty.

Star Bingo

AfterLife wrote: »

Its more likely to be a church. Most of the Africans that moved here are Christian.

Oh is it. They’re a colourful bunch regardless! Plenty of Christian churches around here pity they just can’t blend in....

Timberrrrrrrr

Star Bingo wrote: »

Oh is it. They’re a colourful bunch regardless! Plenty of Christian churches around here pity they just can’t blend in....

What churches are those?

Star Bingo

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What churches are those?

Catholic / Anglican. What church would theirs be?

Odhinn

Star Bingo wrote: »

Oh is it. They’re a colourful bunch regardless! Plenty of Christian churches around here pity they just can’t blend in....

????

Timberrrrrrrr

Star Bingo wrote: »

Catholic / Anglican. What church would theirs be?

Take your pick


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Africa

According to David Barrett, most of the 552,000 congregations in 11,500 denominations throughout Africa in 1995 are completely unknown in the West.[18]Much of the recent Christian growth in Africa is now due to African evangelism and high birth rates, rather than European missionaries. Christianity in Africa shows tremendous variety, from the ancient forms of Oriental Orthodox Christianity in Egypt, Ethiopia, and Eritrea to the newest African-Christian denominations of Nigeria, a country that has experienced large conversion to Christianity in recent times. Several syncretistic and messianic sections have formed throughout much of the continent, including the Nazareth Baptist Church in South Africa and the Aladura churches in Nigeria. There are also fairly widespread populations of Seventh-day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Star Bingo

Star Bingo wrote: »

Oh is it. They’re a colourful bunch regardless! Plenty of Christian churches around here pity they just can’t blend in....

Blend in?
What does that mean?

How do you feel about other religions?
Hindu, Catholic, Jewish?

Omackeral

bubblypop wrote: »

How do you feel about other religions?
Hindu, Catholic, Jewish?

All made up trash.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

All made up trash.

I agree!
But am interested in the posters view, does he think Islam should be banned?
Does he think all religion should be banned?
Personally, all religion is sh1te to me, but if people want to practise their faith I will defend their right to do so.
My Mam is religious, ridiculous to me, but if anyone tries to say anything to stop her practising, I will get in their way, big time!

Well, the Hindus are responsible for a massive genocide of Muslim's in rohingya
Also, I believe in India there is a problem where Hindus kill Muslim's, because of the different beliefs.
Do you just have a problem with people from religions other than Christian religions committing crime in England?

end of the road

according to who? the muslims in ireland seem to disagree with you?

end of the road

their country possibly being ireland.

Sweetemotion

end of the road wrote: »

according to who? the muslims in ireland seem to disagree with you?

I am shocked at that.

Who?
What diversity?
It's religion you know, anyone can be any religion they want to be.
Who are you trying to keep in their own countries?

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

Who?
What diversity?
It's religion you know, anyone can be any religion they want to be.
Who are you trying to keep in their own countries?

How do you feel about the Catholic Church?

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

How do you feel about the Catholic Church?

I have no interest in any religion.
No religion should have an influence over the laws of the land.
Everyone should be free to practise whatever whichcraft they want to.
Everyone should be subject to the laws of the land
That's what I believe.

Odhinn

bubblypop wrote: »

Well, the Hindus are responsible for a massive genocide of Muslim's in rohingya
Also, I believe in India there is a problem where Hindus kill Muslim's, because of the different beliefs.
Do you just have a problem with people from religions other than Christian religions committing crime in England?

It's actually Buddhists. Similar 'buddhist nationalism' can be found in Sri Lanka, aimed mostly at the Tamil hindu minority.

Gwynplaine

No.

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

I have no interest in any religion.
No religion should have an influence over the laws of the land.
Everyone should be free to practise whatever whichcraft they want to.
Everyone should be subject to the laws of the land
That's what I believe.

Well then. You should agree that Islam is not right for Ireland when so many don't agree with the law of the land and want to implement their own laws.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Well then. You should agree that Islam is not right for Ireland when so many don't agree with the law of the land and want to implement their own laws.

No.
I think everyone in Ireland should be free to practise whatever religion they like.
Crazy to me, but whatever floats your boat
The law of the land stands

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
I think everyone in Ireland should be free to practise whatever religion they like.
Crazy to me, but whatever floats your boat
The law of the land stands

I don't think it is crazy to you, for some reason anybody who talks ill of Islam there you are.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I don't think it is crazy to you, for some reason anybody who talks ill of Islam there you are.

No, anyone who tries to stand in the way of people practising their religion, whatever religion, I will defend their right to their faith.
It's all bollox to Me, but people are entitled to their faith.
The law of the land is the law though, end of.

Madagascan

Reasons against Islam.
Kill all Gays.
Kill all Jews.
Kill all non belvivers.

Reasons for?
Will get back to you.

end of the road

nope, the actual law of the land. sharia law i believe is illegal in ireland.

Madagascan wrote: »

Reasons against Islam.
Kill all Gays.
Kill all Jews.
Kill all non belvivers.

Reasons for?
Will get back to you.

none of those are unique to islam. uganda is a christian country, i believe it has the death penalty for gays. hitler as we know wasn't a muslim and he killed a large number of jews.

PlaneSpeeking

end of the road wrote: »

nope, the actual law of the land. sharia law i believe is illegal in ireland.



none of those are unique to islam. uganda is a christian country, i believe it has the death penalty for gays. hitler as we know wasn't a muslim and he killed a large number of jews.

Yes, because illegality has stopped them before hasn't it ???? It's currently illegal to groom hundreds of poor innocent girls and pass them to organised rape gangs. Didn't seem to stop them.

If you're actually interested in reality about Sharia courts in the UK:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sharia-law-uk-courts-muslim-women-rights-few-compared-islamic-countries-religious-rulings-quran-a8064796.html

Also illegal in the UK - doesn't seem to be stopping them. I see no reason why the same wouldn't happen here - or isn't already.

end of the road

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Yes, because illegality has stopped them before hasn't it ????

If you're actually interested in reality:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sharia-law-uk-courts-muslim-women-rights-few-compared-islamic-countries-religious-rulings-quran-a8064796.html

Also illegal in the UK - doesn't seem to be stopping them.

the sharia courts i believe are legal in the uk (unfortunately) . legality isn't always going to stop a problem, but it will allow for punishment for commiting an act.

PlaneSpeeking

I'd settle for them getting somewhere around the 19th century to be honest. The 21st is a bridge too far I fear.

Star Bingo

AfterLife wrote: »

Its more likely to be a church. Most of the Africans that moved here are Christian.

I had clarification that the people of said attyre frequenting it are Pakistani and it’s a meeting room of some sort. Muslim; but not necessarily a prayer room I can’t find any information on it but it’s on Saint Mary’s Road Crumlin opposite the children’s hospital / star bingo.

Beechwoodspark

Star Bingo wrote: »

I had clarification that the people of said attyre frequenting it are Pakistani and it’s a meeting room of some sort. Muslim; but not necessarily a prayer room I can’t find any information on it but it’s on Saint Mary’s Road Crumlin opposite the children’s hospital / star bingo.

Sounds to me like a sort of back alley mosque. You would wonder what sort of preaching goes on in such places off the radar.

Taytoland

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

nope, the actual law of the land. sharia law i believe is illegal in ireland.



none of those are unique to islam. uganda is a christian country, i believe it has the death penalty for gays. hitler as we know wasn't a muslim and he killed a large number of jews.

Yes, because illegality has stopped them before hasn't it ????  It's currently illegal to groom hundreds of poor innocent girls and pass them to organised rape gangs.  Didn't seem to stop them.

If you're actually interested in reality about Sharia courts in the UK:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sharia-law-uk-courts-muslim-women-rights-few-compared-islamic-countries-religious-rulings-quran-a8064796.html

Also illegal in the UK - doesn't seem to be stopping them.  I see no reason why the same wouldn't happen here - or isn't already.

Leftists don't give a damn. No number of grooming rape gangs will stop them from defending Islamic ideology.

ArthurDayne

Taytoland wrote: »

Leftists don't give a damn. No number of grooming rape gangs will stop them from defending Islamic ideology.

Out of interest, as I haven't perused this thread in a while -- have there been many people of 'leftist' persuasion who have defended Islamic ideology on this particular thread?

Captain Obvious

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Out of interest, as I haven't perused this thread in a while -- have there been many people of 'leftist' persuasion who have defended Islamic ideology on this particular thread?

none.

ArthurDayne

Captain Obvious wrote: »

none.

Then I'm presuming that the thread has continued the theme of people confusing the act of defending individual Muslims with the act of defending Islam as a religion?

Sigh

end of the road

Taytoland wrote: »

Leftists don't give a damn. No number of grooming rape gangs will stop them from defending Islamic ideology.

where in Islamic ideology is grooming and abuse condoned or mandated? which scripture? anyone has the right to practice a religion. if they break the laws of the land, then the authorities have an obligation to deal with it.

JohnMc1

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sounds to me like a sort of back alley mosque. You would wonder what sort of preaching goes on in such places off the radar.

Definitely won't be the "Ireland is great" stuff.

JohnMc1

end of the road wrote: »

where in Islamic ideology is grooming and abuse condoned or mandated? which scripture? anyone has the right to practice a religion. if they break the laws of the land, then the authorities have an obligation to deal with it.

Here lies the problem. The Authorities are letting get away with it. The British local councils and Police have been unwilling to prosecute and deport them for this for decades. I doubt the Irish Councils and Gardai will be any bolder.

4068ac1elhodqr

Sweden’s coalition government has come under pressure to close that legal loophole and invalidate all marriages that involve minors.
Marriages between underage parties are 'not' annulled if carried out abroad.

In 2016, the Swedish Migration Agency unearthed 132 cases of asylum seekers under the age of 18 who said they were married when they arrived in the country.

It's reported this news comes four months after the government 'issued a pamphlet' that gave advice to adults living in the country with a child spouse.



https://www.thelocal.se/20180329/swedish-agency-backtracks-following-child-marriage-brochure-storm
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/992951/sweden-democrats-election-immigration-child-marriage
https://www.politico.eu/article/immigrants-migration-culture-integration-sweden-struggles-over-child-marriage/

ArthurDayne

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Here lies the problem. The Authorities are letting get away with it. The British local councils and Police have been unwilling to prosecute and deport them for this for decades. I doubt the Irish Councils and Gardai will be any bolder.

But what is your ideal threshold for deportation? What does someone have to do / say to get deported?

The strict hardline approach always seems to make sense at face value -- but you can unwittingly create cycles of problems from such a stance. The British learned that lesson in 1971 with Internment without Trial --- they tried the hardline approach on the belief it would 'nuke' the problem but actually ended up fanning the flames and radicalising young people who watched their fathers, uncles, neighbours etc hauled off. In an attempt to weed the garden you can unwittingly sow the seeds for future conflict.

Granted, the case of a guy who attempts to blow himself in a school bus might seem clear cut, but I'd be interested to see where you set the deportation threshold in your own view. What if, say, it's the case of a Muslim man pressurising his teenage daughters to wear the veil ? Deplorable by our standards -- but deportable too?

JohnMc1

ArthurDayne wrote: »

But what is your ideal threshold for deportation? What does someone have to do / say to get deported?

Raping Women and children isn't a good enough reason for you?

ArthurDayne

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Raping Women and children isn't a good enough reason for you?

It is a shame really that you meet my attempts to discuss the matter with you by pointlessly, and quite unfairly, questioning my view on the severity of rape. Do I strike you as someone who believes that rape should be treated frivolously ? Anyone convicted of rape should be subject to the full force of the law which, as it stands under the laws of this country, is a substantial imprisonment.

But we are talking about deportation here aren't we? The question I have asked you, and one which I note that you did not answer, is where you personally draw the threshold on deportation. It would seem clear so far that murder and rape are within your scope -- does it go any further than that? Does it include a father pressuring his teenage girls to wear a veil?

JohnMc1

ArthurDayne wrote: »

It is a shame really that you meet my attempts to discuss the matter with you by pointlessly, and quite unfairly, questioning my view on the severity of rape. Do I strike you as someone who believes that rape should be treated frivolously ? Anyone convicted of rape should be subject to the full force of the law which, as it stands under the laws of this country, is a substantial imprisonment.

But we are talking about deportation here aren't we? The question I have asked you, and one which I note that you did not answer, is where you personally draw the threshold on deportation. It would seem clear so far that murder and rape are within your scope -- does it go any further than that? Does it include a father pressuring his teenage girls to wear a veil?

If they refuse to obey our laws than they are out.

ArthurDayne

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If they refuse to obey our laws than they out.

But you see, this is the kind of underdeveloped thinking which makes it difficult for me to ever agree with those of your persusasion. You seem to suggest that the British have been soft in their approach, yet when I ask very simple questions about your vision of what should be done, you simply seem to be of the view that any breaking of Irish law should merit deportation.

There is every reason to believe that your approach, which I do have to admit does remind me of the rather heavy-handed and demonstrably foolish British approach to the Republican insurgency in '71, would actually cause more problems than it would solve -- and deeper rooted problems at that.

JohnMc1

ArthurDayne wrote: »

But you see, this is the kind of underdeveloped thinking which makes it difficult for me to ever agree with those of your persusasion. You seem to suggest that the British have been soft in their approach, yet when I ask very simple questions about your vision of what should be done, you simply seem to be of the view that any breaking of Irish law should merit deportation.

They haven't been soft in their approach? The councils knew about the grooming gangs for decades and covered it up. Hell, they were interested in locking up Tommy Robinson than the groomers.

There is every reason to believe that your approach, which I do have to admit does remind me of the rather heavy-handed and demonstrably foolish British approach to the Republican insurgency in '71, would actually cause more problems than it would solve -- and deeper rooted problems at that.

The softly softly approach hasn't worked either. You're taking the Leftist route and practically apologizing for them claiming they don't know what they're doing.

AfterLife

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If they refuse to obey our laws than they are out.

Who's our? Do you even have an Irish passport?

ArthurDayne

JohnMc1 wrote: »

They haven't been soft in their approach? The councils knew about the grooming gangs for decades and covered it up. Hell, they were interested in locking up Tommy Robinson than the groomers.



The softly softly approach hasn't worked either. You're taking the Leftist route and practically apologizing for them claiming they don't know what they're doing.

But again, you seem to be contenting yourself with arguing with a caricature of me rather than the actual real me. Where did I ever claim that "they don't know what they're doing"? When did I advocate a 'softly softly' approach -- life imprisonment for rape is hardly ' softly softly' John. And even at that, does it not strike you as even softer to let someone escape spending the rest of their days in a prison than being sent off abroad to a country with a weaker rule of law on these matters and potentially walk free in that country? Allowing a convicted rapist the chance to live in freedom in a more backwards country seems like letting him off the hook from rotting in jail.

As for cover-ups, I presume you are talking about Rotherham. A tragic event and an act of serious negligence by the Police I would fully agree. But then again, Muslims represent 5% of the British population yet 15% of its prison population -- so is it really a case of softly softly there??

K.Flyer

On the subject of revoking citizenship and deporations, what the consensus on this one.
I think given his crime etc he should have his Irish citizenship revoked and let the U.S. ship him back to Algeria when they are finished with him.

Algerian-born Irish citizen pleads guilty to terror charges in US

Damache - who went by the online username "Theblackflag" - pleaded guilty to conspiracy to provide material support and resources to terrorists, a year after he was extradited from Spain, prosecutors said.
...
He conspired with Colleen LaRose - a Pennsylvania woman who converted to Islam and took the name Jihad Jane - along with others to "wage violent jihad" through a cell of men and women from Europe and the United States.
...
After being released from prison, he will be deported to Algeria or Ireland, US officials added.

inforfun

Star Bingo wrote: »

I had clarification that the people of said attyre frequenting it are Pakistani and it’s a meeting room of some sort. Muslim; but not necessarily a prayer room I can’t find any information on it but it’s on Saint Mary’s Road Crumlin opposite the children’s hospital / star bingo.

Dont let them fool you.
Many examples of "book stores", cultural centres and whatever the hell other official names in The Netherlands that are pure and simple mosques.
Common thing when the iman in charge there is one of those with a bit of a "reputation"
This guy put a fatwa on the mayor of Rotterdam from his "book store" in The Hague. (Google translated that last link)

PlaneSpeeking

I await the usual defenders of the cult to debunk these but here you go, more reasons why we really don't want this filth in the country any more than we have to:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/muslim-claims-he-didnt-know-rape-was-illegal-spared-prison-by-uk-court-89106/ (13 year old victim)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/03/oxford-professor-islamic-studies-tariq-ramadan-charged-france/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2130831/four-extremist-schools-which-teach-men-can-beat-their-wives-fighting-government-orders-to-shut-down/ - all due apologies for the rag that reported it. Story still stands.

And to end on a positive note - we need more women like this survivor:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html

inforfun

And while we are on it... Dutch minister of foreign affairs is being made to eat his words after footage leaked from a meeting where he made some interesting points.
Trouble was that those points were completely against the multicultural agenda so now he has to be force fed humble pie.

His remarks here