Is Islam right for Ireland?

Timberrrrrrrr

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

At no point ever have I had a UK passport, no dual nationality here.

What country were you born?

Timberrrrrrrr

SnakePlissken wrote: »

And yet you once had the temerity to call me a racist on anothet thread for my critique of the homophobia and mysoginy which is endemic to Islam.

You use the term "racist" so loosely when it suits your inability to construct an actual mature argument, you're in no position to dictate the meaning of the word.

You will have to link me to the post so i can recall the conversation and circumstances of me saying that.

end of the road

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The analogy makes perfect sense.

it really doesn't.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

We're being force fed the "Islam is a religion of peace", "Peaceful Muslims" etc and Terror attacks in the West are occurring with such regularity that we can set our watches to it.

we aren't being "force fed" anything. most muslims are peaceful. the religion does teach about peace. some muslims aren't peaceful but they aren't the majority.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You're clearly one of the Lefties that love defending them.

nope. defending people who haven't done anything wrong isn't a "left wing" thing, it's the decent thing.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You're enabling their bad behaviour.

nope.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Its not racism or whatever word of the day the Left want to throw out to be cautious about letting them into our Countries.

it is . you are being cautious about letting 1 group into the country because some out of that group have done bad things, like all groups. that group happen to be mostly foreign and of a different skin colour, and quite the number of those cautious of this particular group have a disliking to people of a different skin colour and nationality.

SnakePlissken

end of the road wrote: »

quite the number of those cautious of this particular group have a disliking to people of a different skin colour and nationality.

If that were true where are all the threads criticising Sikhs, Hindus, Taoists and Shintoism?

Might it be that critics of Islam such as myself don't give two figs about the colour of Muslims' skin (many of whom are indeed white), but more their backward beliefs?

ArthurDayne

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The analogy makes perfect sense. We're being force fed the "Islam is a religion of peace", "Peaceful Muslims" etc and Terror attacks in the West are occurring with such regularity that we can set our watches to it.

You're clearly one of the Lefties that love defending them. You're enabling their bad behaviour. Its not racism or whatever word of the day the Left want to throw out to be cautious about letting them into our Countries.


Hey Odhinn. Since you liked his post you must be ready to answer my question in the other thread that conveniently never returned too.

What is the regularity? There are fewer terrorist attacks happening in Western Europe in this decade than were happening in the 70s and 80s -- and the last time I checked, the worst terrorist atrocities ever perpetrated on this island were committed by people born on the island, were they not?

I do wonder -- were you clamouring for the Irish to be kicked out of London in the 80's then eh -- back when it was them dirty Paddies comin' ove 'ere killin' our people? Would you have supported simply booting all the Irish out of Great Britain and banning any more of them from entering? It would have stopped the bombings in London etc -- wouldn't it? But I doubt that you would ever have supported this -- because it would have been an absolutely disastrous policy and an affront to the very values we are supposed to be defending here in Europe.

As for defending Islam -- I have no qualms nor have I ever had any qualms with saying that Islam as a religion is a steaming pile of grotesque repressive garbage. But I do defend my fellow human beings as individuals -- I work with Muslims in the office who are lovely decent people. Do I agree with all the tenents of their faith? Not at all. Does that compel me to hate them and to seek their expulsion from the country? No.

JohnMc1

end of the road wrote: »

it really doesn't

Critical Thinking isn't your strong suit then..

we aren't being "force fed" anything. most muslims are peaceful. the religion does teach about peace. some muslims aren't peaceful but they aren't the majority.

:rolleyes: What have these "peaceful" Muslims don't to purge the extremists from their religion? So if the "peaceful" Muslims are a minority then Islam clearly isn't a Religion of Peace no matter how much they want to spin it.

nope. defending people who haven't done anything wrong isn't a "left wing" thing, it's the decent thing.

Doing nothing is why Islam is considered a Terrorist religion. Defending people too cowardly to purge their religion of violent extremists isn't decent. Its cowardly and enabling.

nope.

Yep.

it is . you are being cautious about letting 1 group into the country because some out of that group have done bad things, like all groups. that group happen to be mostly foreign and of a different skin colour, and quite the number of those cautious of this particular group have a disliking to people of a different skin colour and nationality.

You resorted to race baiting like the lefty rat that you are. There are plenty of Muslims that aren't dark skinned. Being cautious of a group that produces Terrorists isn't "racist" its being smart. If the IRA were carrying out attacks with this much frequency I wouldn't blame Countries that are reluctant to let Irish in.

Banned.

JohnMc1

SnakePlissken wrote: »

If that were true where are all the threads criticising Sikhs, Hundus, Taoists and Shintoism?

Might it be that critics of Islam such as myself don't give two figs about the colour of Muslims' skin (many of whom are indeed white), but more their backward beliefs?

Don't let logic get in the way of their Virtue Signalling.

SnakePlissken

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You will have to link me to the post so i can recall the conversation and circumstances of me saying that.

Considering you received a fully warranted warning for your disgusting comment I should hope you remember it... that is unless receiving warning cards by moderators is a regular occurrence to you.

Captain Obvious

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Let me put it in basic terms. If i offer you a bowl of sweets and i told you i only laced a couple with poison. Would you still be ready to grab a handful? If you're smart you wouldn't.

Same logic applies to Muslims. It not racism, islamaphobic or whatever word of the day the Left like to use to be cautious of a group with Terrorism issues. Especially when they've taken no steps to rid themselves of the extremists. The peaceful muslims are irrelevant

What a ridiculous test. You could use that same logic to justify discrimination against any person or group.

AfterLife

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You resorted to race baiting like the lefty rat that you are. There are plenty of Muslims that aren't dark skinned. Being cautious of a group that produces Terrorists isn't "racist" its being smart. If the IRA were carrying out attacks with this much frequency I wouldn't blame Countries that are reluctant to let Irish in.

Muslim terrorists are absolutely miles behind the IRA for frequency and numbers of attacks in England. They have a long way to go if they even want to be considered in the same league. What do you think of Irish people in England? Should they all have been booted out in the 70's and 80's?

JohnMc1

ArthurDayne wrote: »

What is the regularity?

https://thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

You can add the Toronto attack as well. since he sympathised with ISIS.

JohnMc1

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What a ridiculous test. You could use that same logic to justify discrimination against any person or group.

Oblivious being Oblivious again.

Omackeral

AfterLife wrote: »

Muslim terrorists are absolutely miles behind the IRA for frequency and numbers of attacks in England. They have a long way to go if they even want to be considered in the same league. What do you think of Irish people in England? Should they all have been booted out in the 70's and 80's?

How about talking about stuff that's happened in the 21st Century?

end of the road

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Critical Thinking isn't your strong suit then..

it really is, but threads like this don't really require it if i'm honest.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

What have these "peaceful" Muslims don't to purge the extremists from their religion?

i'm sure plenty of them are doing what they can. however, they can only do so much, and the authorities of an individual country will have to do the main work.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

So if the "peaceful" Muslims are a minority then Islam clearly isn't a Religion of Peace no matter how much they want to spin it.

it is a peaceful religion, the majority of muslims are peaceful.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Doing nothing is why Islam is considered a Terrorist religion.

islam isn't considered a "terrorist religion" by most people. those who do consider it a "terrorist religion" don't do so because muslims are supposibly "doing nothing"

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Defending people too cowardly to purge their religion of violent extremists isn't decent. Its cowardly and enabling.

it's non-cowardly, decent and isn't enabling.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Yep.

nope.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You resorted to race baiting like the lefty rat that you are. There are plenty of Muslims that aren't dark skinned.

i really didn't. nor am i a "lefty" anything.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Being cautious of a group that produces Terrorists isn't "racist" its being smart.

it very much isn't smart. being cautious of known extremists is smart and that is different.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If the IRA were carrying out attacks with this much frequency I wouldn't blame Countries that are reluctant to let Irish in.

the ira did cary out attacks frequently. more frequently then have been happening in the uk since.

Captain Obvious

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Oblivious being Oblivious again.

Why would you even make up some stupid analogy like that? It's pretty clear you have no issue discriminating against people of other nationalities or religions. Why try to disguise it like some logical argument? You simply don't like Muslims or people from Muslim countries. It doesn't actually matter to you if it is a good or bad person before you, all that matters is that they aren't like you.

AfterLife

Omackeral wrote: »

How about talking about stuff that's happened in the 21st Century?

So your birth was irrelevant? I'm sure your mother thinks different.

The IRA aren't ancient history, not by a long way. Most of their attacks were carried out in our lifetime and I'm not even 40 yet.

Here's some of them

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-security-bombings/timeline-worst-ira-bomb-attacks-on-mainland-britain-idUKTRE74F31Q20110516

SnakePlissken

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Why would you even make up some stupid analogy

To be fair he's not the first to use such an analogy, here's a quote from the late great Muhammad Ali, but it was directed at white people so he is still lauded to this day for saying it.

"There are many white people who mean right and in their heart wanna do right," he said. "If 10,000 snakes were coming down that aisle now, and I had a door that I could shut, and in that 10,000, 1,000 meant right, 1,000 rattlesnakes didn’t wanna bite me, I knew they were good… 

"Should I let all those rattlesnakes come down, hoping that that thousand get together and form a shield? Or should I just close the door and stay safe? 

Sweetemotion

Mentioning the IRA. Is just the Irish version of Godwin's law.

AfterLife

SnakePlissken wrote: »

To be fair he's not the first to use such an analogy, here's a quote from the late great Muhammad Ali, but it was directed at white people so he is still lauded to this day for saying it.

"There are many white people who mean right and in their heart wanna do right," he said. "If 10,000 snakes were coming down that aisle now, and I had a door that I could shut, and in that 10,000, 1,000 meant right, 1,000 rattlesnakes didn’t wanna bite me, I knew they were good… 

"Should I let all those rattlesnakes come down, hoping that that thousand get together and form a shield? Or should I just close the door and stay safe? 

What do you think Ali meant by this?

I see you're so proud of this post you're thanking yourself, lol.

AfterLife

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Mentioning the IRA. Is just the Irish version of Godwin's law.

Unless you're on an Irish forum discussing "Is Islam Right for Ireland?" and a good proportion of the most vocal posters are English people born to Irish parents that now live in Ireland. Then it is extremely relevant.

ArthurDayne

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Mentioning the IRA. Is just the Irish version of Godwin's law.

One strand of discussion here is the merit of generalising a foreign people based on a terror threat emanating from circles within that community. The example of the Irish in Britain during the IRA bombing campaign is very comparable.

Sweetemotion

AfterLife wrote: »

Unless you're on an Irish forum discussing "Is Islam Right for Ireland?" and a good proportion of the most vocal posters are English people born to Irish parents that now live in Ireland. Then it is extremely relevant.

It's utter nonsense and used for nothing more, but whataboutery.

SnakePlissken

AfterLife wrote: »

What do you think Ali meant by this?

I see you're so proud of this post you're thanking yourself, lol.

It's a fairly unambiguous quote, and no, I did not thank my own post, look closer, different poster similar name

AfterLife

Sweetemotion wrote: »

It's utter nonsense and used for nothing more, but whataboutery.

How so?

AfterLife

SnakePlissken wrote: »

It's a fairly unambiguous quote, and no, I did not thank my own post, look closer, different poster similar name

Is he your son?

The quote has a social context. What do you think it is and how do you think its relevant to this discussion?

SnakePlissken

AfterLife wrote: »

Is he your son?

Petty little snipes such as this only discredit your argument, I'm certainly not expending any more of my valuable time on you when it's highly likely you might only respond with further immature barbs.

AfterLife

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Petty little snipes such as this only discredit your argument, I'm certainly not expending any more of my valuable time on you when it's highly likely you might only respond with further immature barbs.

I apologise profusely. Care to answer the question, please?

Sweetemotion

ArthurDayne wrote: »

One strand of discussion here is the merit of generalising a foreign people based on a terror threat emanating from circles within that community. The example of the Irish in Britain during the IRA bombing campaign is very comparable.

Lets follow what Britain done then during the bombing the campaign.

Internment without trial. If it's comparable, what do you think of that idea?

PlaneSpeeking

AfterLife wrote: »

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Mentioning the IRA. Is just the Irish version of Godwin's law.

Unless you're on an Irish forum discussing "Is Islam Right for Ireland?" and a good proportion of the most vocal posters are English people born to Irish parents that now live in Ireland. Then it is extremely relevant.

"English people" ffs. Will you quit?

Unless you think your opinion counts greater than our country's constitution ?

AfterLife

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

"English people" ffs. Will you quit?

Unless you think your opinion counts greater than our country's constitution ?

No, I won't. I'm interested to know why some of the most vocal anti Muslim immigration posters in this thread are born outside the country. A lot of them British/English.

JohnMc reckons it is fair not to let people enter a country who come from somewhere that produces terrorists. I want to know how the Irish heritage English can reconcile that with their own upbringing. Is there a reason from their own education or British values that makes them more "hardline" on the topic?

PlaneSpeeking

I am NOT "Irish heritage English" ffs.

Thank God for ignore.

ArthurDayne

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Lets follow what Britain done then during the bombing the campaign.

Internment without trial. If it's comparable, what do you think of that idea?

Pardon my lack of comprehension here -- but I am struggling to understand what you mean by this ? What's your point??

AfterLife

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I am NOT "Irish heritage English" ffs.

Thank God for ignore.

How would you describe yourself then? If I had a child with my Irish wife in England and they were brought up in England my child would be English. I'm not sure how they could be considered Irish in nothing but heritage.

In England some of the the biggest proponents of anti Muslim immigration are Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and Caolan Robertson and Morrissey. Im not doubting your Irishness really. I couldn't give a flying **** at the end of the day but its interesting that people with Irish parents in England really dislike immigrants.

Snake Plisken

AfterLife wrote: »

No, I won't. I'm interested to know why some of the most vocal anti Muslim immigration posters in this thread are born outside the country. A lot of them British/English.

JohnMc reckons it is fair not to let people enter a country who come from somewhere that produces terrorists. I want to know how the Irish heritage English can reconcile that with their own upbringing. Is there a reason from their own education or British values that makes them more "hardline" on the topic?

I'm surprised you haven't been carded for this idiotic and bullying tactic of yours! Are you going to ask the 90% of posters who voted No in the poll for their birth cert? Cop yourself on ffs!

DickSwiveller Returns

AfterLife wrote: »

No, I won't. I'm interested to know why some of the most vocal anti Muslim immigration posters in this thread are born outside the country. A lot of them British/English.

JohnMc reckons it is fair not to let people enter a country who come from somewhere that produces terrorists. I want to know how the Irish heritage English can reconcile that with their own upbringing. Is there a reason from their own education or British values that makes them more "hardline" on the topic?

Maybe they've seen the terrible consequences of mass immigration in to England

AfterLife

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I'm surprised you haven't been carded for this idiotic and bullying tactic of yours! Are you going to ask the 90% of posters who voted No in the poll for their birth cert? Cop yourself on ffs!

What about that Ali quote?

PlaneSpeeking

Snake Plisken wrote: »

AfterLife wrote: »

No, I won't. I'm interested to know why some of the most vocal anti Muslim immigration posters in this thread are born outside the country. A lot of them British/English.

JohnMc reckons it is fair not to let people enter a country who come from somewhere that produces terrorists. I want to know how the Irish heritage English can reconcile that with their own upbringing. Is there a reason from their own education or British values that makes them more "hardline" on the topic?

I'm surprised you haven't been carded for this idiotic and bullying tactic of yours! Are you going to ask the 90% of posters who voted No in the poll for their birth cert? Cop yourself on ffs!

I've reported it so we'll see.

AfterLife

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I've reported it so we'll see.

Tout! Haha.

PlaneSpeeking

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

AfterLife wrote: »

No, I won't. I'm interested to know why some of the most vocal anti Muslim immigration posters in this thread are born outside the country. A lot of them British/English.

JohnMc reckons it is fair not to let people enter a country who come from somewhere that produces terrorists. I want to know how the Irish heritage English can reconcile that with their own upbringing. Is there a reason from their own education or British values that makes them more "hardline" on the topic?

Maybe they've seen the terrible consequences of mass immigration in to England

I have but from the Midlands!! (Laois not Leicester!!)

Snake Plisken

AfterLife wrote: »

What about that Ali quote?

That's not me! Get your glasses on!

AfterLife

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I'm surprised you haven't been carded for this idiotic and bullying tactic of yours! Are you going to ask the 90% of posters who voted No in the poll for their birth cert? Cop yourself on ffs!

How am I bullying anyone ffs? I was just pointing out that several posters here have said they were born in England and I asked some questions regarding how that has shaped their views on the topic. It's a fair line of questioning I think.

AfterLife

Snake Plisken wrote: »

That's not me! Get your glasses on!

Apologies. In fairness I'm not looking out for that extra "s" every time.

fritzelly

Arguing with one who was against abortion and keeping women under subjugation (soooo not Islam) and another who is anti British and very pro Muslim but looks for any excuse to undermine you.
Why even bother responding to these people?

AfterLife

fritzelly wrote: »

Arguing with one who was against abortion and keeping women under subjugation (soooo not Islam) and another who is anti British and very pro Muslim but looks for any excuse to undermine you.
Why even bother responding to these people?

I hope you don't think I'm anti British. I'm really not. A lot of my family are British and I have enjoyed the dozens of trips I've taken there from childhood in to adulthood. I simply wouldn't take their views on whether "Is Islam is right for Ireland?" with the same weight as somebody born, reared and educated in Ireland. How could they possibly know?

I'm not pro Muslim but I am anti hatred.

2 Scoops

AfterLife wrote: »

I simply wouldn't take their views on whether "Is Islam is right for Ireland?" with the same weight as somebody born, reared and educated in Ireland.

Why, cause they've lived it?

Generally people with experience of something should be given more heed than those without.

PlaneSpeeking

As to the initial point/poll - more has emerges of the acid attack on the three year old in the UK.

The mother of the child was the target - apparently her "violent asylum seeker husband" was angry at seeing her in a newspaper without her headscarf.

So to answer the question again - Hell. No.

Timberrrrrrrr

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

As to the initial point/poll - more has emerges of the acid attack on the three year old in the UK.

The mother of the child was the target - apparently her "violent asylum seeker husband" was angry at seeing her in a newspaper without her headscarf.

So to answer the question again - Hell. No.

Any links to this please? Genuinely interested as i havent seen this quote in any news sources i have read.

silverharp

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Any links to this please? Genuinely interested as i havent seen this quote in any news sources i have read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5988399/Afghan-mother-three-year-old-acid-attack-boy-tracked-asylum-seeker-ex.html

Revealed: Afghan mother of acid attack boy, 3, 'was tracked down by her violent asylum seeker husband after she appeared in newspaper without her veil' as police continue to quiz him

PlaneSpeeking

silverharp wrote: »

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Any links to this please? Genuinely interested as i havent seen this quote in any news sources i have read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5988399/Afghan-mother-three-year-old-acid-attack-boy-tracked-asylum-seeker-ex.html

Revealed: Afghan mother of acid attack boy, 3, 'was tracked down by her violent asylum seeker husband after she appeared in newspaper without her veil' as police continue to quiz him

The "father"'s family are "accomplished bare knuckle fighters".

Is "accomplished" really the right word to go with ????

ancapailldorcha

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Afterlife is singeling out members who where born in the UK and US, and implying they are racist because of that that's not on! As a mod on here you should see the issue! I see you are also one of the "It's all the white peoples fault" crowd!,

Proof where I said it's all the white people's fault?