Is Islam right for Ireland?

Islam is not right for Ireland in the same way that Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or any other religion is not right for Ireland. Every country should be governed secularly and no religion should be afforded special status or impact on laws.

Does this mean Muslims should be banned from Ireland? Absolutely not. They should be as free to live, work and integrate here as any other section of society provided that they respect the law of the land, which the vast majority do. Yes, there is clearly a problem with Islamic extremism but I can't think of a worse way to combat this than to alienate and discriminate against Muslims; being shunned by society will simply drive them closer to finding a radical preacher who convinces them that the West hates them. Plus it usually isn't Muslims who are shooting up schools in 'Murica but of course we couldn't possibly suggest there's a problem with Christianity, could we? :rolleyes:

Just a side note: Sheikh Umar al-Qadri (Head Imam of Islamic Centre Ireland) is one of the very few religious leaders who has voiced his support for the Repeal of the 8th Amendment - how many officials of the Catholic Church have done the same?

Captain Obvious

wexie wrote: »

and what would Islamic writing look like? :rolleyes:

No idea. That's why I'd like to have a look.

wexie

Captain Obvious wrote: »

No idea. That's why I'd like to have a look.

Will probably turn out to be some screwup where someone accidentally printed something in wingdings

Danzy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Islam is not right for Ireland in the same way that Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or any other religion is not right for Ireland. Every country should be governed secularly and no religion should be afforded special status or impact on laws.

Does this mean Muslims should be banned from Ireland? Absolutely not. They should be as free to live, work and integrate here as any other section of society provided that they respect the law of the land, which the vast majority do. Yes, there is clearly a problem with Islamic extremism but I can't think of a worse way to combat this than to alienate and discriminate against Muslims; being shunned by society will simply drive them closer to finding a radical preacher who convinces them that the West hates them. Plus it usually isn't Muslims who are shooting up schools in 'Murica but of course we couldn't possibly suggest there's a problem with Christianity, could we? :rolleyes:

Just a side note: Sheikh Umar al-Qadri (Head Imam of Islamic Centre Ireland) is one of the very few religious leaders who has voiced his support for the Repeal of the 8th Amendment - how many officials of the Catholic Church have done the same?[/quot

Last time All Qadri went in to a Sunni mosque in Dublin he got the crap kicked out of him.

He represents a view rejected by most Muslims.

doolox

We like bacon and pig related foods, the muslims call this harim, forbidden, so thats out.

We like alcohol but the muslims call this harim so that is out.

We have improved to such an extent in our tolerance of people of the gay persuasion that same sex marriages are now OK and our taoiseach and one of our ministers is gay, huge improvement from Roman Catholic intolerance of anything different but a lot of infractions hidden..... Gay life is not tolerated by Muslims, so OUT.

As Maggie would have said OUT OUT OUT. Let them live here but on OUR terms.

Irish people need to grow a backbone and dictate how we live to any minority religious group seeking to change our way of life.

We lived long enough in a dictatorial theocracy under the RC church since so -called independence, lets not go back there.

2 Scoops

Deleted User wrote: »

They should be as free to live, work and integrate here as any other section of society provided that they respect the law of the land, which the vast majority do.

That's just not true

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does this mean Muslims should be banned from Ireland? Absolutely not. They should be as free to live, work and integrate here as any other section of society provided that they respect the law of the land, which the vast majority do. Yes, there is clearly a problem with Islamic extremism but I can't think of a worse way to combat this than to alienate and discriminate against Muslims; being shunned by society will simply drive them closer to finding a radical preacher who convinces them that the West hates them. Plus it usually isn't Muslims who are shooting up schools in 'Murica but of course we couldn't possibly suggest there's a problem with Christianity, could we? :rolleyes:

Sorry that logic is flawed. If Muslims are banned from Ireland or the west then they are hardly going to be a threat to Ireland or the west if radicalised by a Muslim preacher somewhere else.

I personally would be optimistic enough of integration if:

1) we source Muslim immigrants from higher educated and more secular regions and
2) we stop bombing the Middle East. In particular stop assisting the Muslim extremists. That’s not helping.


As for murica, of course people blame Christianity if possible (there’s a rush to it even if the motive is not religious) and that’s a different country, and the entire topic unrelated to immigration.

Franz Von Peppercorn

wexie wrote: »

and what would Islamic writing look like? :rolleyes:

Squiggly, innit?

Johnnycanyon

Live and let live.

RustyNut

2 Scoops wrote: »

That's just not true

Yes it is.

wexie

Johnnycanyon wrote: »

Live and let live.

And ya know what, it's clear that some people here find it hard to believe, but that's just what the majority of Muslims want.

I wouldn't deny there are issues, both with the religion, and perhaps even with the immigration policies in 'parts' of Europe.

But as it stands immigration into Ireland is barely worth mentioning and quite frankly the narrative that every single Muslim is out for world domination and oppression of the Infidel is (and I'm being polite here) 'complete and utter, unenlightened narrowminded bollox' (about on a par intellectually with thinking they all read and write in Islamic)

Just like there's a lot of bad Catholics out there, there's lots of bad Muslims out there. Which means they don't stick to every tenet of their faith as 'religiously' (hurhur) as perhaps others feel they should.

To put it in Catholic terms, they might murder the odd infidel for easter and christmas but the heart's not really in it and they don't bother the rest of the year.

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

It must be right for Ireland if our officials are to be believed. I was in the coombe hospital a month ago and there were signs on the notice board in Islamic.
I would have thought there would be 10 times more people who could read Russian or polish in Ireland than Islamic yet they weren't catered for strangely enough.

Arabic, Arabic. What percentage of the irish population can read it, 1 or 2 %? Political correctness kicking off here.

quintana76

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Sorry that logic is flawed. If Muslims are banned from Ireland or the west then they are hardly going to be a threat to Ireland or the west if radicalised by a Muslim preacher somewhere else.

I personally would be optimistic enough of integration if:

1) we source Muslim immigrants from higher educated and more secular regions and
2) we stop bombing the Middle East. In particular stop assisting the Muslim extremists. That’s not helping.


As for murica, of course people blame Christianity if possible (there’s a rush to it even if the motive is not religious) and that’s a different country, and the entire topic unrelated to immigration.

1.) That used to be the case. Not anymore.
2. )The Irish have never bombed the Middle East.
Don't wish on ourselves something (with the best will in the world) that we know little about and may ultimately be unable to control. Bad decision when considering the precedences abroad. Why should Ireland be unique?

JohnMc1

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Degradation of women,

Didn't we just have 2 Women Presidents fairly recently?

hatred for the gays,

Didn't we just vote to allow Gay Marriage?

Atoms for Peace

Summer In the City wrote: »

I live in predominantly Muslim country neighbouring Saudi Arabia and there is a Christian church within walking distance from my apartment. Should I deny the Arabs in Dublin the same rights they've afforded the religion of my birth here? The Saudis aren't the be all and end all of Arab Muslims.

Get back to me when the oil money runs out!:pac:

no.8

no.8 wrote: »

Laughable. You obviously have not lived in areas which are Muslim dominated.

I live in a Muslim country. It's perfectly reasonable place, people look & act just like people anywhere!
Amazingly their religion hasn't turned their country into some crazy place.......

2 Scoops

RustyNut wrote: »

Yes it is.

Are you talking about the migrants from the middle east in recent years?

JohnMc1

Mutant z wrote: »

The notion that Ireland is historically a non Islamic country well that's obvious to everyone but the willfully blind and stupid.

I'm sure RTE will be rewriting Irish history to claim Islam has always had a presence in Ireland. Much like the BBC is doing to British history.

Odhinn

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I'm sure RTE will be rewriting Irish history to claim Islam has always had a presence in Ireland. Much like the BBC is doing to British history.

Examples?

JohnMc1

weldoninhio wrote: »

Islam is a lot more than just a religion.

This. Its Sharia that's an even bigger danger. Its a completely authoritarian system. No wonder Hitler and the modern Left love it so much. They think they can use it to gain/keep power, but are arrogant or downright ignorant to think that they can reform it to suit their ideals [Macron pretty much let the cat of the bag about that recently when he said the he can reform Islam]

doolox

doolox wrote: »

We like bacon and pig related foods, the muslims call this harim, forbidden, so thats out.

We like alcohol but the muslims call this harim so that is out.

We have improved to such an extent in our tolerance of people of the gay persuasion that same sex marriages are now OK and our taoiseach and one of our ministers is gay, huge improvement from Roman Catholic intolerance of anything different but a lot of infractions hidden..... Gay life is not tolerated by Muslims, so OUT.

As Maggie would have said OUT OUT OUT. Let them live here but on OUR terms.

Irish people need to grow a backbone and dictate how we live to any minority religious group seeking to change our way of life.

We lived long enough in a dictatorial theocracy under the RC church since so -called independence, lets not go back there.

Why do people assume that by having Muslim people live in Ireland, we are suddenly going to be ruled by their religious beliefs?
Can the people of Ireland not live without religion telling them what to do........

wexie

JohnMc1 wrote: »

This. Its Sharia that's an even bigger danger. Its a completely authoritarian system. No wonder Hitler and the modern Left love it so much.

Hitler tried to impose Sharia law?

Funny, they must have skipped that bit in my history classes

dr.fuzzenstein

doolox wrote: »

We like bacon and pig related foods, the muslims call this harim, forbidden, so thats out.

We like alcohol but the muslims call this harim so that is out.

We have improved to such an extent in our tolerance of people of the gay persuasion that same sex marriages are now OK and our taoiseach and one of our ministers is gay, huge improvement from Roman Catholic intolerance of anything different but a lot of infractions hidden..... Gay life is not tolerated by Muslims, so OUT.

As Maggie would have said OUT OUT OUT. Let them live here but on OUR terms.

Irish people need to grow a backbone and dictate how we live to any minority religious group seeking to change our way of life.

We lived long enough in a dictatorial theocracy under the RC church since so -called independence, lets not go back there.

Do you want to force Muslims to eat pork and drink alcohol?
Or are you referencing any Muslim who said he wanted to force the Irish not to do so?
Or is this just angry rhetoric?
Can you cite examples of Muslims in Ireland trying to dictate their lifestyle to the Irish?
Sorry, your post is a bit muddled.

RustyNut

2 Scoops wrote: »

Are you talking about the migrants from the middle east in recent years?

Muslims.

maccored

TheManTheMyth wrote: »

There have been countless stories of Muslim immigrants degrading women and gay people all across Europe and generally not integrating into the countries that they have moved to, personally i was very pro migrant about a year (maybe a year and a half) ago but have completely 180'd on the topic and now have a serious feeling of discomfort when i think about Islam spreading to Ireland. Am i the only person who feels like we have enough problems without adding this new religion into the mix? the idea that governments want to change the views of their own people rather than address the source of the issue (in my eyes Islam and the less liberal nations from which these groups originate)scares me because it sends us back to the times of keeping everything silent, it will only lead to another catholic church situation where eventually their atrocities all come to light at once.

Catholicism degrades women and gay people as well yet we're still stuck with it

JohnMc1

wexie wrote: »

Hitler tried to impose Sharia law?

Funny, they must have skipped that bit in my history classes

He did think highly of it. Plus the Nazis DID work with the Muslims.

http://www.dw.com/en/how-nazis-courted-the-islamic-world-during-wwii/a-41358387

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674979765

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/187128/nazi-romance-with-islam

masculinist

More than a few people have brought up these tired arguments ... well heres some cognitive dissonance for you

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do people assume that by having Muslim people live in Ireland, we are suddenly going to be ruled by their religious beliefs?
Can the people of Ireland not live without religion telling them what to do........

Not suddenly. Not over night but they have far more children than Europeans and they are flooding into Europe in the millions and then bringing their families to join them too. Demographics control the politics of a country . Demographics plus Saudi funded 'cultural centres' designed to construct a parallel society of halal shops, community centres and so on where theres no need to interact with the native Irish or integrate is plain suicide. Multiculturalism dilutes the host culture and the more aggressive culture always wins out.

Deleted User wrote: »

Plus it usually isn't Muslims who are shooting up schools in 'Murica but of course we couldn't possibly suggest there's a problem with Christianity, could we? :rolleyes:

Muslims keep their heads down when they are a small % of the population. Thats a factor in the US plus Americans carry guns and can fight back. As their population increases they start agitating for change everywhere they exist. It's already began. The pattern replicates everywhere .

Watch American Muslims stone Christian preachers exercising their first amendment rights in Dearborn Michigan in the USA. The Muslims only did this because they control that town. And just as they have our media in fear of publishing cartoons they also have their law enforcement in fear. Later on the cops of that town arrested the preachers to stop them preaching. A court case later on freed the preachers and awarded significant damages to the wrongfully arrested real victims of this case. Those people who dared unbelievably to think their rights in the USA werent dictated by Islam but by the American constitution.

Furthermore Islam has bloody borders everywhere. Even in the Phillipines far away from the middle east among other ''brown people''. Islamofascists are bombing and shooting Catholics and committing acts of terrorism. Islams goal is to hypocritically use the rights given to them in the west to undermine and erase those rights.


I fully expect some libnorants (who never fail to reveal their authoritarian pro censorship anti liberty views) to come on here saying that free speech ''provoked'' the stoning. This would be in line with feminists remaining silent when German and Swedish authorities segregate train carriages by gender and when authorities tell females that what they wear provokes sexual assaults. Eventually they will be saying exactly the same thing about homosexuals . And anti-semitism well thats par for the course.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I live in a Muslim country. It's perfectly reasonable place, people look & act just like people anywhere!
Amazingly their religion hasn't turned their country into some crazy place.......

Because Islamic culture and laws are already dominant. Women already dress and behave within the bounds of its culture. As do men. The boundaries/rules are known and people rarely break them, because they know what will happen to them if they do.

I've also traveled through a variety of Muslim countries. Generally very safe countries as long as you obeyed/complied with the Islamic culture, and followed their laws. But then, I'm male. The risks are much lower, and it's already a masculine culture, so again, it's easier for males to navigate the cultural boundaries. I traveled with my Chinese girlfriend, and she had to be very careful about her behavior (and more importantly her appearance) at all times. Some rather tense encounters occurred too, although thankfully nothing came of it.

The difference is the expectation of bringing their cultural and religious beliefs with them into Europe and applying them to westerners. This happened in parts of Germany, Frankfurt being a good example, where parts of the city became extensions of Islamic culture, with their customs replacing those of the locals, who were eventually pushed out of their own neighborhoods. We can see this slowly happening now in other parts of Europe.

I genuinely have no problem with Islamic culture, or the religion. I've known many Muslim families, and they've proven themselves to be wonderful people. At the same time though, I've also encountered the gang behavior of young muslims and those who aren't married, with the belief that their culture should be dominant everywhere. Along with their distaste of the behavior and appearance (fashion) of western women.

Islamic culture, traditions and beliefs make sense in their own countries. It doesn't make sense in Europe. We have promoted the idea of personal freedoms, and the sense that women can dress however they wish. No matter how much those here wish otherwise, the fact is that modern European culture promotes beliefs/freedoms/customs which are completely the opposite of Islamic culture.

Now, I don't want to get rid of Muslims. Muslims have shown previously that they are capable of integrating into western society without the need to express their religion or project their cultural taboos beyond their house or places of worship. The view here should on integration, with the local host countries culture remaining dominant, and the best parts of Islamic culture permitted. At the same time though, the focus should be on stamping out the cultural aspects of Islam which are causing such problems in mainland Europe.

You've lived in a Muslim country, so you understand that unless you are a Muslim in that country, you'll always be an outsider. You respect their culture/customs, and their laws because that's the right thing to do if you wish to remain there. You don't flaunt your western customs/beliefs, and expect Islamic people to conform to your western habits.

I honestly don't see why it's so unacceptable to require the same acceptance of western culture/laws while they're choosing to live in Europe.

riffmongous

JohnMc1 wrote: »

He did think highly of it. Plus the Nazis DID work with the Muslims.

http://www.dw.com/en/how-nazis-courted-the-islamic-world-during-wwii/a-41358387

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674979765

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/187128/nazi-romance-with-islam

With Muslims, not 'the Muslims', hundreds of thousands of Muslims fought for the Allies as part of the Indian Army, not that you ever hear much about it

JohnMc1

masculinist wrote: »

More than a few people have brought up these tired arguments ... well heres some cognitive dissonance for you



Not suddenly. Not over night but they have far more children than Europeans and they are flooding into Europe in the millions and then bringing their families to join them too. Demographics control the politics of a country . Demographics plus Saudi funded 'cultural centres' designed to construct a parallel society of halal shops, community centres and so on where theres no need to interact with the native Irish or integrate is plain suicide. Multiculturalism dilutes the host culture and the more aggressive culture always wins out.



Muslims keep their heads down when they are a small % of the population. Thats a factor in the US plus Americans carry guns and can fight back. As their population increases they start agitating for change everywhere they exist. It's already began. The pattern replicates everywhere .

Watch American Muslims stone Christian preachers exercising their first amendment rights in Dearborn Michigan in the USA. The Muslims only did this because they control that town. And just as they have our media in fear of publishing cartoons they also have their law enforcement in fear. Later on the cops of that town arrested the preachers to stop them preaching. A court case later on freed the preachers and awarded significant damages to the wrongfully arrested real victims of this case. Those people who dared unbelievably to think their rights in the USA werent dictated by Islam but by the American constitution.

Furthermore Islam has bloody borders everywhere. Even in the Phillipines far away from the middle east among other ''brown people''. Islamofascists are bombing and shooting Catholics and committing acts of terrorism. Islams goal is to hypocritically use the rights given to them in the west to undermine and erase those rights.


I fully expect some libnorants (who never fail to reveal their authoritarian pro censorship anti liberty views) to come on here saying that free speech ''provoked'' the stoning. This would be in line with feminists remaining silent when German and Swedish authorities segregate train carriages by gender and when authorities tell females that what they wear provokes sexual assaults. Eventually they will be saying exactly the same thing about homosexuals . And anti-semitism well thats par for the course.

Good post. They all play the "I'm just a peace loving Muslim looking for a peaceful life in your Country" bit when they don't have the numbers on their side, but once they do they start to show their true colours. We'll see that very quickly since Varadkar wants to start importing 50K for his 2040 plan [probably not counting family reunifications for the ones already here or on their way]

Plus something the Bleeding hearts need to realize. They will lie in order to spread Islam [aka Islam is a religion of peace everytime an attack from a Muslim happens]

http://muslimfact.com/bm/terror-in-the-name-of-islam/islam-permits-lying-to-deceive-unbelievers-and-bri.shtml

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

Mutant z

Odhinn wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

By forcing Islamic customs on an unwilling Irish population

Unless he has powers unbeknownst to the rest of us, he has some serious work ahead.

Mutant z wrote: »

its already happening with the likes of Ali Salim dictating to schools what their dress codes should be it starts of small but keeps getting bigger and bigger and before you know it you're under their spell.

He suggested that schools might allow their muslim pupils to wear the headscarf etc. Your problem with that is.....?

Odhinn wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

By forcing Islamic customs on an unwilling Irish population

Unless he has powers unbeknownst to the rest of us, he has some serious work ahead.

Mutant z wrote: »

its already happening with the likes of Ali Salim dictating to schools what their dress codes should be it starts of small but keeps getting bigger and bigger and before you know it you're under their spell.

He suggested that schools might allow their muslim pupils to wear the headscarf etc. Your problem with that is.....?

It only leads to even more segregation he clearly believes Muslim girls should be segregated from the other students do you not see a problem here its things like this which makes islam incompatible with western cultural values.

Summer In the City

doolox wrote: »

We like bacon and pig related foods, the muslims call this harim, forbidden, so thats out.

We like alcohol but the muslims call this harim so that is out.

You can still get all this stuff in Muslim countries. They're not banned or anything.

riffmongous

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Good post. They all play the "I'm just a peace loving Muslim looking for a peaceful life in your Country" bit when they don't have the numbers on their side, but once they do they start to show their true colours. We'll see that very quickly since Varadkar wants to start importing 50K for his 2040 plan [probably not counting family reunifications for the ones already here or on their way]

Plus something the Bleeding hearts need to realize. They will lie in order to spread Islam [aka Islam is a religion of peace everytime an attack from a Muslim happens]

http://muslimfact.com/bm/terror-in-the-name-of-islam/islam-permits-lying-to-deceive-unbelievers-and-bri.shtml

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

How many Muslims do you know? And you think they are all hiding their true colours from you?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because Islamic culture and laws are already dominant. Women already dress and behave within the bounds of its culture. As do men. The boundaries/rules are known and people rarely break them, because they know what will happen to them if they do.

I've also traveled through a variety of Muslim countries. Generally very safe countries as long as you obeyed/complied with the Islamic culture, and followed their laws. But then, I'm male. The risks are much lower, and it's already a masculine culture, so again, it's easier for males to navigate the cultural boundaries. I traveled with my Chinese girlfriend, and she had to be very careful about her behavior (and more importantly her appearance) at all times. Some rather tense encounters occurred too, although thankfully nothing came of it.

The difference is the expectation of bringing their cultural and religious beliefs with them into Europe and applying them to westerners. This happened in parts of Germany, Frankfurt being a good example, where parts of the city became extensions of Islamic culture, with their customs replacing those of the locals, who were eventually pushed out of their own neighborhoods. We can see this slowly happening now in other parts of Europe.

I genuinely have no problem with Islamic culture, or the religion. I've known many Muslim families, and they've proven themselves to be wonderful people. At the same time though, I've also encountered the gang behavior of young muslims and those who aren't married, with the belief that their culture should be dominant everywhere. Along with their distaste of the behavior and appearance (fashion) of western women.

Islamic culture, traditions and beliefs make sense in their own countries. It doesn't make sense in Europe. We have promoted the idea of personal freedoms, and the sense that women can dress however they wish. No matter how much those here wish otherwise, the fact is that modern European culture promotes beliefs/freedoms/customs which are completely the opposite of Islamic culture.

Now, I don't want to get rid of Muslims. Muslims have shown previously that they are capable of integrating into western society without the need to express their religion or project their cultural taboos beyond their house or places of worship. The view here should on integration, with the local host countries culture remaining dominant, and the best parts of Islamic culture permitted. At the same time though, the focus should be on stamping out the cultural aspects of Islam which are causing such problems in mainland Europe.

You've lived in a Muslim country, so you understand that unless you are a Muslim in that country, you'll always be an outsider. You respect their culture/customs, and their laws because that's the right thing to do if you wish to remain there. You don't flaunt your western customs/beliefs, and expect Islamic people to conform to your western habits.

I honestly don't see why it's so unacceptable to require the same acceptance of western culture/laws while they're choosing to live in Europe.

I am a woman. The religion does not dominate their lives here, neither does it dictate their law.
I don't feel like an outsider as everyone here looks just like me. They have no problem with my western habits either.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I am a woman. The religion does not dominate their lives here, neither does it dictate their law.
I don't feel like an outsider as everyone here looks just like me. They have no problem with my western habits either.

Where are you>?

weldoninhio

miocicmma wrote: »

No, It's a religion which has allot more similarities to Christianity than the media would have you believe. They are in the same family of Abrahamic religions.

It’s a religious, legal and ideological system.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do people assume that by having Muslim people live in Ireland, we are suddenly going to be ruled by their religious beliefs?
Can the people of Ireland not live without religion telling them what to do........

Try to get some ham or some bacon in one of the halal Subway stores in Ireland.

“Ham and Bacon products have been substituted by “Turkey Ham” and “Turkey Rashers”.

masculinist

maccored wrote: »

Catholicism degrades women and gay people as well yet we're still stuck with it

This is the ridiculous statement which never goes away and is nonsense. Catholicism was a little bit mean (only after a few hundred years of Muslim attacks by the way) a few hundred years ago therefore lets unleash Islam has got rank up there among some of the most ridiculous liberal attitudes thrown about.
Catholicism has zero power in Ireland and had changed utterly . It is voluntary. Theres more than a hint of compulsion about Islam. Theres no compulsion in Catholicism anywhere.

I was at a funeral only last week when one of the grievers informed us about how gay he was in his speech and everybody in the church applauded him. And all the ladies attending were highly liberated and in no way oppressed.

doolox

All it would take would be an alliance between fanatical Catholics and Muslim fanatics to strike up an arrangement where government laws would be passed to interfere with the many freedoms we now have in our daily lives.

Add to that the health promotion nazis telling us when and what we can drink and trying to live our lives and you will see a return to theocratic dictatorship which has plagued Irish lives since the foundation of the state.

I have lived through 60 years of that nonsense and do not wish to return to religious interference with peoples lives in any form.

miocicmma

weldoninhio wrote: »

It’s a religious, legal and ideological system.

You don't think Christianity has heavily influenced Irish law and ideology down through the years?

Hellrazer

Islam in Ireland is growing at around at a huge rate due to population growth and immigration.

Which is why Ireland needs to enact laws now and not let it get out of control like France and other European countries have done.

Among these laws should be a ban on the hijab,burka etc,a ban on sharia laws and a ban on preaching extreme radicalisation up to and including preaching in ones place of worship.

Ive no problem with the Muslim population as long as they abide by the countries laws.As Klaz said if we got to their countries we have to drop our western attitudes and abide by their laws so is it not right that we expect the same when they decide to live here?

Theres already anecdotal evidence of sharia law being practiced here. Some Islam religious heads are trying to dictate to schools about whether Muslim girls should wear head scarves etc.

By 2020 the figures are predicted to be around 100000 people who identify as muslim. Id be surprised if we haven't already gotten there yet.By 2040 Islam is reckoned to be the second largest religion in Ireland.

Once the population has grown large enough muslims will have representation in the Dail (and rightly so if they win an election and a Dail seat) and will be able to enact laws that suit their way of life a bit better but may not be compatible with the Irish/Western way of thinking.

Its worrying because we could end up with situations like the UK and France where whole communities are ghettoised and being little old Ireland we wont react until its too late and the horse has bolted.

I also don't get why people are comparing this to the Catholic Church.
Look where we have come from in the last 30 years. The catholic church dominated Irish society running schools,abusing kids,anti-everything.

Weve now gotten divorce,gay marriage,contraception and in a few weeks time we`ll have abortion on demand which will be the final nail in the coffin of the catholic church here. Do we really want any religion to have this much influence on society again? If we let it happen again we are the bigger fools.

No religion should ever have the power the catholic church had in this country.

Odhinn

Mutant z wrote: »

It only leads to even more segregation he clearly believes Muslim girls should be segregated from the other students do you not see a problem here its things like this which makes islam incompatible with western cultural values.

Well you might quote him on that......from what I see, he's asking for equal treatment with the RC.

dr.fuzzenstein

weldoninhio wrote: »

Try to get some ham or some bacon in one of the halal Subway stores in Ireland.

“Ham and Bacon products have been substituted by “Turkey Ham” and “Turkey Rashers”.

Yes how dare these people open shops that cater to their culture. This is an outrage!
Tell you what, you march on down there and demand some Denny's rashers and sausages NOW!
Maybe bring a few people with you.
Don't these people know that every shop in Ireland has to stock exactly the same stuff as the others at the exact same price? Same principle as the restaurants in Ireland.
Where will it end?
And then you go to the Afro, Chinese and Polish shop and tell them to turn into a Centra and pronto!
Otherwise some poor, unsuspecting Paddy could end up accidentally buying one of dem fordeign products and get poisoned, can't be having that. I heard of a case in Clonmel where poor auld Seamus accidentally picked up a bag of chili powder to try it out, it nearly killed him stone dead, so it did.
A shop in Ireland should stock rashers, bacon, cheddar, milk, tomatoes, brillo pads and bisto and nothing else! Maybe except the papers, the RTE guide and some 4% donkeypiss that passes as beer here.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Try to get some ham or some bacon in one of the halal Subway stores in Ireland.

“Ham and Bacon products have been substituted by “Turkey Ham” and “Turkey Rashers”.

Why would you go specifically to somewhere that you know don't have pork & look for it?
Seems like you just want an argument

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

Weve now gotten divorce,gay marriage,contraception and in a few weeks time we`ll have abortion on demand which will be the final nail in the coffin of the catholic church here. Do we really want any religion to have this much influence on society again? If we let it happen again we are the bigger fools.

No religion should ever have the power the catholic church had in this country.

I'm concerned about the cultural aspect too. In the last few years, we've seen a massive shift in public perception about the harassment and abuse of women. Between Weinstein, Metoo, the Belfast case, etc, there has been this focus on "men" as being the aggressors within society towards women, and the generally accepted belief that this is not acceptable. The movement to implement consent classes, sex education, new laws etc are all growing strongly and there will be changes in our society to protect women further than they already are. As a result, it's likely that women will engage in more expressions of that freedom and behave in a more unrestrained manner. Fair enough.

However, Islamic culture does not tolerate this. The male is the complete dominant factor in the society. The female does not behave in any manner that might bring shame to the family unit or the culture as a whole. Depending, on where they're from and the type of Islam, the females are likely to be kept away from non-family males, their freedoms restricted, and the expectations of their behavior is closely monitored. There isn't any acceptance of going out drinking, dating, flirting or any of the behavior that western women believe themselves entitled to.

I knew a family from Oman for three years. I knew the Husband from work, and would often be invited to join their evening meal. Two beautiful children, and a wife I never actually saw, or spoke to. During the meal, the wife would eat in an adjoining room out of my sight, but able to hear the conversation. When she would deliver the food to the table, she would be covered from head to foot, and not speak to me directly. Only through her husband. While the children were young, they were able to join the meal, but once the female child reached a certain age she was stopped from doing that, and kept in the other room. Lovely family. Yes, that's one example, but it's an example people don't really want to acknowledge as being fairly common from many Islamic cultures. Instead, we're always told to think of the more cosmopolitan or modern Islamic people, forgetting that Islam thrives in poorer regions and these less educated/more traditional people are also coming here.

Am I the only one that sees the conflict here? Even without the aggressive involvement of Islamic men against western women, which has been documented across Europe. (Shame gangs, Assaults, etc), there will be the temptation for feminists to demand equal freedoms for women within Islam. There will be direct threats to the very core laws and customs that Islamic people expect of their females. And it won't be the gradual modification and evolution of practices that more modern Islamic states experienced, but the more western application of media and social consciousness. And the expectation of changes immediately within years not decades. The expectation of Change in the West is not a slow thing anymore... everything must be changed quickly. You really think Islamic men (and many of the women) are going to appreciate the threat to their culture?

Such movements will definitely generate a reaction although I'm fully expecting Islamic men to preempt the threat by pushing for their own culture to spread within Europe, simply because western civilisation wants to be "fair" to minority beliefs. Although whether they remain a minority, with larger families, and generally greater numbers of younger people than westerners, is anyone's guess.

We are being so short-sighted. Islamic culture does not match with western culture. While in the past, there was the expectation that western cultures would remain dominant in the regions, Muslims who moved to the West would keep their culture and religion behind the closed doors of their homes. That's no longer the case. In France, we are seeing more and more expressions of that culture and the conflict of when it meets the local culture. The documentaries about how women are no longer able to walk the streets of various French cities are ignored, or dismissed. The behavior of young Islamic men participating in Shame gangs are dismissed. The assaults and rapes by young men in Europe, even without believing the actual numbers involved, should be shocking, but are dismissed.

This is not about being a bigot. This is about being sensible. If we can clearly point out that certain behavior is unacceptable by any religious/cultural group, then we can limit the influence of that religious/cultural group. Which is not what we're doing, and any suggestion of doing so is met with a dismissive gesture.

wexie

weldoninhio wrote: »

Try to get some ham or some bacon in one of the halal Subway stores in Ireland.

“Ham and Bacon products have been substituted by “Turkey Ham” and “Turkey Rashers”.

I was in Halfords the other day and they wouldn't sell me a bottle of wine...

Feckin outrageous

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

. Depending, on where they're from and the type of Islam .

So, not all Muslims then?
Can't judge everyone the same way just because of their religion.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So, not all Muslims then?
Can't judge everyone the same way just because of their religion.

And here we go. Perfect example of dismissing it all.

Did I say to judge everyone just because of their religion? No. Did I suggest to judge anyone because of their religion? No.

I don't believe in any religion. It's all buckshot to me. But I will defend anyone's right to practise their religion.
But I believe in the law first & foremost.
If someone does something illegal, then they should be dealt with as per the laws Of The land.
It doesn't matter to me whether somene is brown, white, purple or pink. I don't care whether they are Muslim, Hindu, Christian or whatever.
So long as people obey the law.

Thomas__.

TheManTheMyth wrote: »

There have been countless stories of Muslim immigrants degrading women and gay people all across Europe and generally not integrating into the countries that they have moved to, personally i was very pro migrant about a year (maybe a year and a half) ago but have completely 180'd on the topic and now have a serious feeling of discomfort when i think about Islam spreading to Ireland. Am i the only person who feels like we have enough problems without adding this new religion into the mix? the idea that governments want to change the views of their own people rather than address the source of the issue (in my eyes Islam and the less liberal nations from which these groups originate)scares me because it sends us back to the times of keeping everything silent, it will only lead to another catholic church situation where eventually their atrocities all come to light at once.

Some points in your post, just that given your fears become reality, another catholic church situation would be without the former power of the catholic church itself. I know what you mean, it's religious fundamentalists taking over.

In general I have to say that I have become very anti-religious, no matter what Religion and I left the RCC when I was 18 years of age, just quitting the 'membership', didn't change the fact of my catholic baptism not even changed many of the values (the positives) that are at the core of it, but I am per se a person who looks at such things differenciated. What you face these days is the dominance of the political Islam, comparable with - let me put it that way - 'political Christianity'. That means that a Religion is given political influence and thus power through those who support such movements. Sometimes it manifests itself in political parties and sometimes the people and the political system is dominated by religious leaders (like in some countries in the Arabic World and as well as in Turkey).  

When it comes to Islam as a Religion which should be the private matter of the believers and with no influence in politics, I have no objections. But when it comes to political Islam I am strongly against it and this has to be opposed as it is a real threat to our all freedom.