Is Islam right for Ireland?

Give me a reason why migration of devout muslims/islamists would benefit any western country? If we have any skills that are in short supply we can train our own peoples. It`s like a form of political correctness gone mad. We should be under no obligation to take in anyone we don`t want to. And as a country/European Union we should pick and choose and 'just because we dont want something' is a good enough reason.

Think long term, those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to make the same mistakes yada yada. Lebanon is a good example/warning from history.

Islam is a religion that dictates. Its why so many Islamic countries have such strict laws and are/were dictatorships. It simply isn`t a faith that sits in harmony with other faiths and those of no faith. It doesnt fit with democracy, womens rights, gay rights etc.

Good enough reasons to keep them out in anything other than in tiny percentages. You would be mad not to. Mad I say! Mad as a brush.

weldoninhio

miocicmma wrote: »

You don't think Christianity has heavily influenced Irish law and ideology down through the years?

The most pertinent part of your statement. Ireland has just shaken off the shackles of Catholicism over the past decade or so, with the divorce referendum, the SSM referendum, pubs opening on Good Friday and hopefully further with the repeal of the 8th amendment. We also have an awful lot more non-denominational schools such as educate together and others.

I'd rather not go back to a system where a religious ideology forces laws onto people, thank you very much.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would you go specifically to somewhere that you know don't have pork & look for it?
Seems like you just want an argument

Its a Subway sandwich shop, not a specialised store. You generally don't "specifically" go looking for one, you come across it if you are out shopping/out in town. How are you going to know if it is one of their halal stores until you go in??

Also if the population of muslims here is as low as we are told, why the need? There are probably more vegetarians in Ireland than muslims, but i've never heard of a veggie Subway. Its the drip, drip, drip, little changes at a time that has happened all over Europe and people with their heads in the sand in Ireland refuse to see it happening here.

Captain Obvious

doolox wrote: »

We like bacon and pig related foods, the muslims call this harim, forbidden, so thats out.

We like alcohol but the muslims call this harim so that is out.

We have improved to such an extent in our tolerance of people of the gay persuasion that same sex marriages are now OK and our taoiseach and one of our ministers is gay, huge improvement from Roman Catholic intolerance of anything different but a lot of infractions hidden..... Gay life is not tolerated by Muslims, so OUT.

As Maggie would have said OUT OUT OUT. Let them live here but on OUR terms.

Irish people need to grow a backbone and dictate how we live to any minority religious group seeking to change our way of life.

We lived long enough in a dictatorial theocracy under the RC church since so -called independence, lets not go back there.

They're you have it. Muslims who wish to remain in Ireland must be forced to eat bacon and drink alcohol to prove they are integrating. Why does how they live their individual lives scare you so much?

I love how people are going on about how improved the Catholic church is and how great Ireland is. Only 60% of voters voted for gay marriage. The repeal vote will probably be similar. And none of that is due to the catholic church, it's in spite of it.

And who is forcing you to change your way of life? Are you that weak minded that you would feel pressure to convert if your neighbour was a Muslim?

Snake Plisken

Odhinn wrote: »

Well you might quote him on that......from what I see, he's asking for equal treatment with the RC.

Oh look the supporters of Dr Ali Salim are crawling back out from their hiding places, least we forget he thinks genital Mutilation should be allowed, good to see your back out supporting his progressive views!

weldoninhio

Odhinn wrote: »

Well you might quote him on that......from what I see, he's asking for equal treatment with the RC.

Where schools were “persistent”, they should “employ a female PE teacher and provide students with a sports hall not accessible to men during times when girls are at play. They should also not be visible to men while at play.” - i.e. segregate them.

“physical contact between members of the opposite sex who can be legally married is forbidden in Islam” - i.e. segregate them.

Handy enough to find using google.

Thomas__.

Deleted User wrote: »

Hellrazer wrote: »

Weve now gotten divorce,gay marriage,contraception and in a few weeks time we`ll have abortion on demand which will be the final nail in the coffin of the catholic church here. Do we really want any religion to have this much influence on society again? If we let it happen again we are the bigger fools.

No religion should ever have the power the catholic church had in this country.

I'm concerned about the cultural aspect too. In the last few years, we've seen a massive shift in public perception about the harassment and abuse of women. Between Weinstein, Metoo, the Belfast case, etc, there has been this focus on "men" as being the aggressors within society towards women, and the generally accepted belief that this is not acceptable. The movement to implement consent classes, sex education, new laws etc are all growing strongly and there will be changes in our society to protect women further than they already are. As a result, it's likely that women will engage in more expressions of that freedom and behave in a more unrestrained manner. Fair enough.

However, Islamic culture does not tolerate this. The male is the complete dominant factor in the society. The female does not behave in any manner that might bring shame to the family unit or the culture as a whole. Depending, on where they're from and the type of Islam, the females are likely to be kept away from non-family males, their freedoms restricted, and the expectations of their behavior is closely monitored. There isn't any acceptance of going out drinking, dating, flirting or any of the behavior that western women believe themselves entitled to.

I knew a family from Oman for three years. I knew the Husband from work, and would often be invited to join their evening meal. Two beautiful children, and a wife I never actually saw, or spoke to. During the meal, the wife would eat in an adjoining room out of my sight, but able to hear the conversation. When she would deliver the food to the table, she would be covered from head to foot, and not speak to me directly. Only through her husband. While the children were young, they were able to join the meal, but once the female child reached a certain age she was stopped from doing that, and kept in the other room. Lovely family. Yes, that's one example, but it's an example people don't really want to acknowledge as being fairly common from many Islamic cultures. Instead, we're always told to think of the more cosmopolitan or modern Islamic people, forgetting that Islam thrives in poorer regions and these less educated/more traditional people are also coming here.

Am I the only one that sees the conflict here? Even without the aggressive involvement of Islamic men against western women, which has been documented across Europe. (Shame gangs, Assaults, etc), there will be the temptation for feminists to demand equal freedoms for women within Islam. There will be direct threats to the very core laws and customs that Islamic people expect of their females. And it won't be the gradual modification and evolution of practices that more modern Islamic states experienced, but the more western application of media and social consciousness. And the expectation of changes immediately within years not decades. The expectation of Change in the West is not a slow thing anymore... everything must be changed quickly. You really think Islamic men (and many of the women) are going to appreciate the threat to their culture?

Such movements will definitely generate a reaction although I'm fully expecting Islamic men to preempt the threat by pushing for their own culture to spread within Europe, simply because western civilisation wants to be "fair" to minority beliefs. Although whether they remain a minority, with larger families, and generally greater numbers of younger people than westerners, is anyone's guess.  

We are being so short-sighted. Islamic culture does not match with western culture. While in the past, there was the expectation that western cultures would remain dominant in the regions, Muslims who moved to the West would keep their culture and religion behind the closed doors of their homes. That's no longer the case. In France, we are seeing more and more expressions of that culture and the conflict of when it meets the local culture. The documentaries about how women are no longer able to walk the streets of various French cities are ignored, or dismissed. The behavior of young Islamic men participating in Shame gangs are dismissed. The assaults and rapes by young men in Europe, even without believing the actual numbers involved, should be shocking, but are dismissed.

This is not about being a bigot. This is about being sensible. If we can clearly point out that certain behavior is unacceptable by any religious/cultural group, then we can limit the influence of that religious/cultural group. Which is not what we're doing, and any suggestion of doing so is met with a dismissive gesture.

Reads like a rational summary. I agree with some of your points and what you have described matches what I know from other (Muslim) countries. The problem is that these matters are always raised by right-wing and far-right minded people in order to achieve more than just curb the influence of Islam and Muslims on western societies. It's the perfect tool for them in order to impose their radical views on others but you're also right that those who like to defend freedom are making it too easly for radical Islamists to spread their anti-western propaganda among Muslims and that without meeting any serious resitance from the mainstream of the society because they turn against the right-wingers and far-right first and Forget to turn against the radical Islamists as well.

To tolerate intolerant ideological-political and religious-political movements and people is a folly. But the mainstream of the society has to face that and acknowledge that tolerance without limits to and for self-protection ends up in ruins and the loss of freedom by those who want to abloish that altogether. There is another problem to it which is when you stand up against radical islamism, you have the far-rights and right-wingers jumping the band waggon and it is hard to get rid of them more so when they try to overtake themselves. This all makes it difficult to deal with that problem on a rational basis. It gives the radicals their advantages to further polarise public debate and the society itself.

Hector Savage

Mutant z wrote: »

The majority of those who practice it happen to be non white so hence must never be criticised in the leftists world the racism of low expectations for want of a better word.

And does anyone think Islam would be even legal if it were mainly white ?

Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious wrote: »

They're you have it. Muslims who wish to remain in Ireland must be forced to eat bacon and drink alcohol to prove they are integrating. Why does how they live their individual lives scare you so much?

I love how people are going on about how improved the Catholic church is and how great Ireland is. Only 60% of voters voted for gay marriage. The repeal vote will probably be similar. And none of that is due to the catholic church, it's in spite of it.

And who is forcing you to change your way of life? Are you that weak minded that you would feel pressure to convert if your neighbour was a Muslim?

The weakness is when moderate muslims suddenly become sheep/fanatics when the number of muslims increase to a critical point. You can see it in the UK where they had the nut job gangs patrolling for sharia law patrols.

Do we want this ? No, hell no. How do we prevent it? Limit migration/be more selective about who comes in.

A bit of cop on and common sense really
A little bit of pickiness/snobbery would go a long way to saving the next few generations a lot of strife.

Hector Savage

Grayson wrote: »

You do realise that the number of people killed by muslims is tiny.

In the US, a country which has invaded two countries to stop islamic terror, you are more likely to be killed by a toddler.

And the number of muslims who commit these attacks is tiny. You cannot extend that to the whole religion of almost a billion people.

This is the point where you reply about how I hate the victims and I'm a heartless bastard. I don't want to see islamic terrorism. I think the people who commit those crimes are bastards. However I'm not stupid enough to take the actions of a few and extend it to billions.

You can't but as said before the amount of support these guys get is what the issue is - by people that would never carry out attacks themselves...

And that's because I'm a mathematician and logician. So I understand statistics and can see through a very, very dumb induction argument.

Im not having it ...

Hector Savage

donegaLroad wrote: »

Ireland is a moderate country. Islam to me, does not appear to be a moderate religion.

Ireland is just after loosening the shackles of one oppressive regime. Why would we want bring a more oppressive one upon ourselves.

A religion free Ireland is the best way forward.

Just curious here, to the far left lads on here, grayson, backwards man, Odhinn etc ...

Do you at least agree with the last statement here - A religion free Ireland is the best way forward. ?

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

Just curious here, to the far left lads on here, grayson, backwards man, Odhinn etc ...

Do you at least agree with the last statement here - A religion free Ireland is the best way forward. ?

People should be free to follow the religion of their choice.
Religion should not dictate the laws of the land.

Snake Plisken

This Muslim leader even points out some issues with Clonskeagh but particularly The South Circuler Road Mosque.
https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/983013748871979008?s=21

Geuze

murpho999 wrote: »

That's not the point. By law it's legal, discrimination is another matter.

It's only been legal here since 1993, so neither Ireland or Catholicism have a great history on this despite recent improvements.

Be careful.

Homosexuality has never been illegal in Ireland.

The acts were illegal.

You could walk hand in hand through Stephen's Green, camp and gay, and that was not illegal.

Scotty #

weldoninhio wrote: »

Strange how it was the majority of single, military aged men that thought this. The women and children must be a lot more resilient than them. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Actually, more women than men have drowned crossing the Mediterranean.

weldoninhio

Scotty # wrote: »

Actually, more women than men have drowned crossing the Mediterranean.

Have you a link for that? Can't find anything with a breakdown of numbers.

maccored

masculinist wrote: »

This is the ridiculous statement which never goes away and is nonsense. Catholicism was a little bit mean (only after a few hundred years of Muslim attacks by the way) a few hundred years ago therefore lets unleash Islam has got rank up there among some of the most ridiculous liberal attitudes thrown about.
Catholicism has zero power in Ireland and had changed utterly . It is voluntary. Theres more than a hint of compulsion about Islam. Theres no compulsion in Catholicism anywhere.

I was at a funeral only last week when one of the grievers informed us about how gay he was in his speech and everybody in the church applauded him. And all the ladies attending were highly liberated and in no way oppressed.

so catholicism accepts gay people and we have women priests? Exactly. Neither of those statements are true. I think you've managed to come up with a much more ridiculous statement.

Odhinn

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Oh look the (................) views!

Isn't just grand when you can make things up.

Odhinn

Hector Savage wrote: »

Just curious here, to the far left lads on here, grayson, backwards man, Odhinn etc ...

Do you at least agree with the last statement here - A religion free Ireland is the best way forward. ?

Religion free, as in its removal from influence on law and legislation. It would be wrong to attack personal belief, generally speaking.

Summer In the City

Hector Savage wrote: »

And does anyone think Islam would be even legal if it were mainly white ?

I thought it wasn't a race issue?

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

you really should google more. taking your information from one article doesn't always give you the full picture.

yes, a lot of young men from Kosovo did go to fight with ISIS. there is massive unemployment & ISIS were paying.

It is a muslim country with none of the problems people on this thread seem to think come from Islam. There was a PRIDE parade here last year.

Ehh it isn't just one article.

Are you saying that Kosovo doesn't have a problem with jihadists and the growth of fundamentalism ?

For some guys that were only in for the money they appear to have been taking the old jihading fairly serious as has been evidenced by the arrest of kosovan jihadists around Europe.

The Italians arrested 4 suspected jihadists from Kosovo because they were going to carry out attack in Venice.

Ever hear of Lavdrim Muhaxheri, a Kosovan who has fought with ISIS in Syria ?
He posted photos on Facebook of himself beheading a prisoner in Syria.

For someone just doing it for the money he did seem to get into the swing of things. :rolleyes:

Haven't hundreds of people been arrested in Kosovo over the last few years for being linked to Islamist groups including ISIS and Al-Nusra ?
Haven't Kosovar officials had to close numerous charities because they were recruiting jihadists and hate preaching.

After two years of investigations, the police have charged 67 people, arrested 14 imams and shut down 19 Muslim organizations for acting against the Constitution, inciting hatred and recruiting for terrorism.

bubblypop wrote: »

I currently live in a muslim country.
they have perfectly reasonable laws, like home.

Do you live in Kosovo ?

If so it isn't your quintessential muslim country now is it.
It has only come into existence in the last decade.
It was part of Serbia/Montenegro.

It was last part of muslim state in 1912 when it was part of the Ottoman Empire.
After that it was part of both Serbia and Montenegro.
Then post WW1 it was part of what became the Kingdom of Yugoslavia until 1941.
After WW2 it was part of Tito's communist Yugoslavia.

And if anything it can be easily seen why they would be one of the most pro US muslim states because it owes it's very existence to US putting Serbia back in it's box and allowing creation of a free Kosova.

It is a European state and has long had European influences.

So really Kosova as an example of muslim state or country is not very correct and representative at all.

Also I would bet some others here are using Dubai, Bahrain as examples of muslim states in Middle East when really they are cosmopolitan creations with large amount of westerners resident there.

Saying that scratch under the surface and one will find they are pretty different to what we in the West would term secular democratic states with equality for all.

Summer In the City

So you're discounting Muslim countries because they aren't the type of muslim countries that suit your argument? There's no hope for some.

Hector Savage

Summer In the City wrote: »

I thought it wasn't a race issue?

Thats my point, it's not a race issue but people see it as a race issue - hence afraid to critisize.

My point about if 99% of Muslims were white is that that above fear wouldn't exist - so I don't think the ideology would be tolerated at all - even by crazy lefties - in fact they'd be front center stage on having it banned.

Hector Savage

Odhinn wrote: »

Religion free, as in its removal from influence on law and legislation. It would be wrong to attack personal belief, generally speaking.

Yes, but thats what the poster meant im sure.

The thing is, I reckon we would probably agree on 90% of things, a lot of these arguments are based on misconceptions, positive/negative outlook on things etc...

Thats why I stay the hell away from Twitter ... trying to to this shyte in 140 chars ... f*ck that ..

The_Kew_Tour

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

2) we stop bombing the Middle East. In particular stop assisting the Muslim extremists. That’s not helping.

Who is 'we'

Ireland ain't bombing Middle East

jmayo

Harika wrote: »

That has been shown to not happening, as when Muslims grow up in Europe, they tend to take the liberalism on board. See the generations of Turkish people in Germany. Also with higher education they are getting less children https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/29/muslim-population-in-europe-could-more-than-double
So until 2050 the population will double to a whooping 20%, thats 32 years down the road and a lot will happen until then.

Ehh isn't conservatism on the rise in Germany amongst the Turkish community ?

In announcing the results of the study, Die Welt newspaper reported that research leader Holger Liljeberg noted that those traditional values seemed to be a lot stronger among younger Turkish-Germans surveyed. Those aged between 15 and 29 held more conservative opinions on everything from virginity to abortion to believing in heaven.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/not-at-home-in-germany-almost-half-of-turkish-migrants-want-to-leave-a-662520.html

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If some of ye were as handy with a turf spade as ye are blowing hysterical hot air we'd be the energy capital of the world.

Ah yes the man with the countryman shtick.

Somehow I reckon you haven't use a turf spade much yourself. :rolleyes:

Grayson wrote: »

I honestly have no idea what you're referring to.

Ehh now now stop trying to play the eejit.
It doesn't suit you.
Humprhys had kept a video showing the Halawas up on that famous truck trailer.
You know the one they accidently got up on after they left the cinema when they were on holidays in Egypt.

Thomas__.

Summer In the City wrote: »

So you're discounting  Muslim countries because they aren't the type of muslim countries that suit your argument? There's no hope for some.

I think that you didn't read carefully what he wrote about. I recall some report on the TV about Bosnia in which similar incidents happened and I think what he likes to point out is that countries like Kosovo and Bosnia, as instable as they are, might proived the perfect hiding places for returning European Jihadists to avoid prosecution in their countries of origin.

Scotty #

weldoninhio wrote: »

Have you a link for that? Can't find anything with a breakdown of numbers.

Dr. Sine Plambech - Danish Institute for International Studie’s Department of Migration[link]

You may also be interested in this article stating that as of 2016, women and children accounted for 55% of all migrants coming into Europe via Greece. [link]

and you may also find these stats interesting showing that actually, very few of the worlds refugees are hosted in Europe. [link]

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Why will Ireland be different?

What makes us better then France Germany or Sweden?

Anyone want answer the above?

Anyone at all?

Harika

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh isn't conservatism on the rise in Germany amongst the Turkish community ?



http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/not-at-home-in-germany-almost-half-of-turkish-migrants-want-to-leave-a-662520.html

Yeah Germany is governed since 2006 from the conservative party and especially the CSU has no real problem with the authoritarians like Orban or Erdogan. They are adapting to their home countries values as shown in the article:

While German respondents were generally more liberal -- in everything from their approval ratings on gay marriage to virgin brides to abortion rights -- and the Turkish respondents were generally less liberal, the Turkish-Germans were somewhere between the two.

Turkish people are general an interesting case for Germany as they were needed in the 70s to work but were suspected to go home again, so no integration was done and in the end they liked Germany and stayed.

murphthesmurf

Scotty # wrote: »

Actually, more women than men have drowned crossing the Mediterranean.

This tells you a lot. The vast majority of migrants crossing the sea are men, this is obvious to anyone with a tv/newspaper/internet/common sense. So of the few women that make the crossings they appear to be drowning the most (if this is indeed true). Statistically this is improbable. A boat with 100 people for example, maybe 10 of them women. So should someone fall off the boat, there is only a 1 in 10 chance it will be a woman. If the boat goes down, only 1 in 10 of the people who drown should be a woman. So how do they drown more?? Could it be that the men save themselves?

weldoninhio

Scotty # wrote: »

Dr. Sine Plambech - Danish Institute for International Studie’s Department of Migration[link]

You may also be interested in this article stating that as of 2016, women and children accounted for 55% of all migrants coming into Europe via Greece. [link]

and you may also find these stats interesting showing that actually, very few of the worlds refugees are hosted in Europe. [link]

First link doesn't give any figures. Second link is behind a paywall. No idea why the third link was given.

Harika

murphthesmurf wrote: »

This tells you a lot. The vast majority of migrants crossing the sea are men, this is obvious to anyone with a tv/newspaper/internet/common sense. So of the few women that make the crossings they appear to be drowning the most (if this is indeed true). Statistically this is improbable. A boat with 100 people for example, maybe 10 of them women. So should someone fall off the boat, there is only a 1 in 10 chance it will be a woman. If the boat goes down, only 1 in 10 of the people who drown should be a woman. So how do they drown more?? Could it be that the men save themselves?

Your premise is wrong: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/refugee-invaders-meme/ so the split is 50/50 and more woman might die because more men can swim, they are weaker after the long journey and so on

6541

I have given this and general migration to Ireland a lot of thought. My opinion is this, Irish people are very, very clannish. We are a distinct nation,common sport and culture etc. In the North this community become polarized from the other side for obvious reasons.

We have hundreds of years of experiencing violence and turmoil. My advice is thread carefully with the Irish and migration, if a community gets Irish peoples backs up Irish people will lash out and it will go deep. The offending community with get expelled. This is what history has taught us.

That is my opinion and I could be completely wrong or we could get hit bay an asteroid and nobody gives a crap then !

weldoninhio

Harika wrote: »

Your premise is wrong: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/refugee-invaders-meme/ so the split is 50/50 and more woman might die because more men can swim, they are weaker after the long journey and so on

According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, as of 16 March 2016 they had recorded nearly 5 million registered Syrian refugees: 2.1 million of them in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon, another 1.9 million in Turkey.

We are talking about refugees in Europe. Skewing the argument using figures from the ME. :rolleyes:

Scotty #

weldoninhio wrote: »

No idea why the third link was given.

The third link was given because you earlier stated that "all these muslim refugees are flooding to Europe." instead of other "muslim countries". That's totally incorrect. Most do actually stay in nearby countries.

jmayo

Scotty # wrote: »

...
Weldoninhio, do you not remember the people in their thousands traveling from war torn Syria through Turkey, Greece, up to Hungary, then through Austria and into Germany and beyond in recent years?? THEY WALKED IT!! What "oceans" are you talking about??

You forgot about the Albanians, the Kosovans, the Kurds, the Afghans that flew and bused to Turkey before their walk, etc, etc.

Summer In the City wrote: »

You can add Jordan, the Lebanon, Turkey and it starts looking like a majority to me.

I am not discounting muslim countries that don't suit my argument.
There a few muslim countries that are way more liberal than most.

Just like there are a few christian dominated countries that are more repressive than most.
Actually Ireland would have fallen into this category until the last couple of decades.

But even if you look at say once pretty secular Turkey, it was great if you lived in Istanbul of one of the major urban areas but not so good if you were in one of the more rural areas.
And how much does Lebanon owe to it's Christian background and Syrian backing for it's liberalism.
Do you seriously think if it was up to Hezbollah it would be anyway liberal.

Even they have laws they mean nothing if they ignored and discrimination is widely practiced and ignored.
Pakistan has laws but in huge swaths of the country they are unenforced/unforceable.

The Old Guy wrote: »

I will never understand why liberals are so determined to defend the most backward, homophobic, misogynistic religion going.

Shouldn't it be us conservative right wingers praising Islam as a model for the rest of us?

One would think.

Mutant z wrote: »

The majority of those who practice it happen to be non white so hence must never be criticised in the leftists world the racism of low expectations for want of a better word.

Funny how much grief Israel Folau has gotten for his christian opinions on gays.
He is Tongan descent and would I guessed be classed as non white.
I do wonder how much grief he would get if he was muslim say like Sonny Bill Williams ?

RustyNut wrote: »

What did the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi muslims do to deserve being killed by non muslims?

Am I doing this right?

And how many of those dead muslims were at the hands of other muslims just settling old scores and just because they were a different shade of muslim ?

Ragnar Lothbrok

These threads about Muslims make me cringe. Many ignorant people assuming that all Muslims are the same.

In the 70s and 80s in England, the general view was that every single Irish person was a potential member of the IRA, or at least a supporter of the IRA. The fact that this patently wasn't the case escaped most English people, in the same way that the anti-Muslim brigade here don't seem to have a clue about the followers of Islam.

murphthesmurf

Harika wrote: »

Your premise is wrong: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/refugee-invaders-meme/ so the split is 50/50 and more woman might die because more men can swim, they are weaker after the long journey and so on

There is absolutely no way the migrants coming to Europe are split 50/50 whatever your link says. You only have to use your eyes and see the pictures of boats or lines of people coming in. They are as high as 90% male. So where are the women?
Italy is looking to prosecute some of the NGO's for running what is basically a taxi service for migrants from a couple of miles off the Libyan coast to Italy. They claim to have records that show the people trafficers ringing the NGO's to tell them to come and pick them up when they haveca boat load. I hope they succeed and jail them for a long long time.

Does anyone stop to think what effect taking millions of people out of these countries has on the countries they are leaving? Who is going to fight for freedom, or change anything. Who is going to rebuild these countries. How can they ever improve if we are taking all their skilled people. These countries will degrade more and more as all that is left is ISIL and Assad. Madness.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

These threads about Muslims make me cringe. Many ignorant people assuming that all Muslims are the same.

The really gas thing is that even if we don't consider all muslims to be the same and say this in out in some of our posts, many of us will still be accused of assuming all muslims are the same. It's a standard response to shut down discussion.

For every right winged poster with a badly researched extreme viewpoint, there is a extreme liberal wannabe with equally poor knowledge.

In the 70s and 80s in England, the general view was that every single Irish person was a potential member of the IRA, or at least a supporter of the IRA. The fact that this patently wasn't the case escaped most English people, in the same way that the anti-Muslim brigade here don't seem to have a clue about the followers of Islam.

I'm curious... Do you consider me to be of the Anti-Muslim Brigade?

thebull85

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yes how dare these people open shops that cater to their culture. This is an outrage!
Tell you what, you march on down there and demand some Denny's rashers and sausages NOW!
Maybe bring a few people with you.
Don't these people know that every shop in Ireland has to stock exactly the same stuff as the others at the exact same price? Same principle as the restaurants in Ireland.
Where will it end?
And then you go to the Afro, Chinese and Polish shop and tell them to turn into a Centra and pronto!
Otherwise some poor, unsuspecting Paddy could end up accidentally buying one of dem fordeign products and get poisoned, can't be having that. I heard of a case in Clonmel where poor auld Seamus accidentally picked up a bag of chili powder to try it out, it nearly killed him stone dead, so it did.
A shop in Ireland should stock rashers, bacon, cheddar, milk, tomatoes, brillo pads and bisto and nothing else! Maybe except the papers, the RTE guide and some 4% donkeypiss that passes as beer here.

you ok?

tbarry31

James 007 wrote: »

Would you believe I have those same feelings. Rather than been racist about it etc check out Birmingham, Luton, Blackburn & London with regards to the level of integration in these areas. Check out Rotheram UK with regards to rapes. Tommy Robinson, former EDL has been out spoken on this for years now.

Our borders should be tightly controlled like Poland, Hungary and some of the other eastern bloc countries. France and Britain are good examples of where Islam has been spreading for some time now, google the issues and problems they are having. As far as I am concerned could I go to Saudi Arabia and set up a catholic church there, I can guarantee the answer would be no.

Germany and Sweden will have more Islamic problems in the future wit this open arms policy with regards to immigration. The recent protest In Kilkenny regarding the planning of the mosque, I do wonder those Irish that are okay with it, how many of them are aware of the issues/problems that other european countries are experiencing. All these mosques are funded by sauda arabia etc.

Is this all hate speech, I would like to think not

I hate to say it, but I think it is coming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLUTe9ZQpYk

spot on here. I walked down a street in Birmingham once and in Luton and I was told to leave I got threats in Luton that I would be sorted if I didn't go I asked a local what the issue was and he said he wasn't bad at all 10-15 years back then the folks were nice but now he said all these people come in now only want trouble. They also mentioned rape in them area's is a epidemic right now.

weldoninhio

murphthesmurf wrote: »

There is absolutely no way the migrants coming to Europe are split 50/50 whatever your link says. You only have to use your eyes and see the pictures of boats or lines of people coming in. They are as high as 90% male. So where are the women?
Italy is looking to prosecute some of the NGO's for running what is basically a taxi service for migrants from a couple of miles off the Libyan coast to Italy. They claim to have records that show the people trafficers ringing the NGO's to tell them to come and pick them up when they haveca boat load. I hope they succeed and jail them for a long long time.

Does anyone stop to think what effect taking millions of people out of these countries has on the countries they are leaving? Who is going to fight for freedom, or change anything. Who is going to rebuild these countries. How can they ever improve if we are taking all their skilled people. These countries will degrade more and more as all that is left is ISIL and Assad. Madness.

Wonder if any Irish Navy boats will be served for this.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh it isn't just one article.

Are you saying that Kosovo doesn't have a problem with jihadists and the growth of fundamentalism ?

For some guys that were only in for the money they appear to have been taking the old jihading fairly serious as has been evidenced by the arrest of kosovan jihadists around Europe.

The Italians arrested 4 suspected jihadists from Kosovo because they were going to carry out attack in Venice.

Ever hear of Lavdrim Muhaxheri, a Kosovan who has fought with ISIS in Syria ?
He posted photos on Facebook of himself beheading a prisoner in Syria.

For someone just doing it for the money he did seem to get into the swing of things. :rolleyes:

Haven't hundreds of people been arrested in Kosovo over the last few years for being linked to Islamist groups including ISIS and Al-Nusra ?
Haven't Kosovar officials had to close numerous charities because they were recruiting jihadists and hate preaching.

After two years of investigations, the police have charged 67 people, arrested 14 imams and shut down 19 Muslim organizations for acting against the Constitution, inciting hatred and recruiting for terrorism.




Do you live in Kosovo ?

If so it isn't your quintessential muslim country now is it.
It has only come into existence in the last decade.
It was part of Serbia/Montenegro.

It was last part of muslim state in 1912 when it was part of the Ottoman Empire.
After that it was part of both Serbia and Montenegro.
Then post WW1 it was part of what became the Kingdom of Yugoslavia until 1941.
After WW2 it was part of Tito's communist Yugoslavia.

And if anything it can be easily seen why they would be one of the most pro US muslim states because it owes it's very existence to US putting Serbia back in it's box and allowing creation of a free Kosova.

It is a European state and has long had European influences.

So really Kosova as an example of muslim state or country is not very correct and representative at all.

Also I would bet some others here are using Dubai, Bahrain as examples of muslim states in Middle East when really they are cosmopolitan creations with large amount of westerners resident there.

Saying that scratch under the surface and one will find they are pretty different to what we in the West would term secular democratic states with equality for all.

Ah bit longer goggling this time.
The point of the thread is about Islam in Ireland. The majority of posters, you included, seem to think that Islam in Ireland is going to cause some massive changes, that we will all be subjected to sharia law & forbidden from eating rashers.
I am well aware of the history of Kosovo thanks & just because it doesn't fit your agenda doesn't make it any less Muslim.
It's a majority Muslim country.

Thomas__.

Thomas__. wrote: »

I think that you didn't read carefully what he wrote about. I recall some report on the TV about Bosnia in which similar incidents happened and I think what he likes to point out is that countries like Kosovo and Bosnia, as instable as they are, might proived the perfect hiding places for returning European Jihadists to avoid prosecution in their countries of origin.

I read his post a few times & I don't know where you got this from. He never said anything like that

Harika

murphthesmurf wrote: »

There is absolutely no way the migrants coming to Europe are split 50/50 whatever your link says. You only have to use your eyes and see the pictures of boats or lines of people coming in. They are as high as 90% male. So where are the women?

fair enough it is around 65% http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Does anyone stop to think what effect taking millions of people out of these countries has on the countries they are leaving? Who is going to fight for freedom, or change anything. Who is going to rebuild these countries. How can they ever improve if we are taking all their skilled people. These countries will degrade more and more as all that is left is ISIL and Assad. Madness.

Why is none thinking of Syria, those refugees are far better standing between the front lines catching grenades and bullets so all those historical buildings are not damaged!
Anyway whom do you suggest they fight in Syria for freedom? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War Pick one of the list

masculinist

maccored wrote: »

so catholicism accepts gay people and we have women priests? Exactly. Neither of those statements are true. I think you've managed to come up with a much more ridiculous statement.

Wow you are really so unbelievably petty. Membership of the church and it's own internal rules is voluntary and really none of the business of non-members such as ourselves. How they make and change rules is subject to their 2000 year traditions. Do you want to start writing someones religion for them ? If you cared about homophobia then your knock that chip off your shoulder and focus on Islam instead.
By the way, you claimed I made a statement and you claimed this without evidence. I did not make a statement at all . I told a true story. The brother of the deceased spoke at length about how his brother had loved and supported him and not only the whole church but all the old priests clapped and stood up. The Catholic Church is humbled by Irish society. Islam will never be humbled.
Catholics and Catholic priests are not throwing Gay people off the tops of buildings even in the most backward countries. Muslims and Islamic Clerics are doing exactly that.
The pure hate you are injecting into this thread for the Catholic church is totally irrational . Theres a type of person who hate the Catholic Church so much they would rather welcome in Islamofascism. The term ''useful idiots'' was invented to describe such people.

jmayo

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah bit longer goggling this time.
The point of the thread is about Islam in Ireland. The majority of posters, you included, seem to think that Islam in Ireland is going to cause some massive changes, that we will all be subjected to sharia law & forbidden from eating rashers.
I am well aware of the history of Kosovo thanks & just because it doesn't fit your agenda doesn't make it any less Muslim.
It's a majority Muslim country.

So since you did not dispute my claim I take it you live in Kosova.

I also notice you did not dispute my point about growing fundamentalism within that region.
You skirt around those points with snide remarks about using google.

And try as you might you cannot claim that Kosova, or indeed Bosnia, are representative of what passes for most muslim countries taking into account location, and especially history.

PS not that long googling as I have already a resonable idea of it's history, not just how many incidents of fundamentalist ties ins there has been recently.

As for islam causing massive problems for us, it isn't just the worry about sharia law or not eating rashers or clamp down on alcohol.
The last one might have some positive outcomes.
I will probably be gone before sharia would become the issue, but I don't want my kids, especially my daughter, living in a land where sharia is even a thought.

All one has to do is look at our nearest neighbours and fact that we now have 5 or 6 massive child grooming gangs being exposed after years of toleration from authorities resulting in thousands of victims.

And yes before you or others start squawking we have a sad history of tolerated child abuse, but does that mean we want to further add to it ?

Looking at our neighbours we have see the offspring of muslim immigrants and muslim converts slaughter people in the streets.
Nowadays visiting cities in France and Italy you are greeted with armed soldiers on the streets.
This is what islam is giving Europe.

A fair few posters claimed that we would never have a muslim carry out one of those lone wolfe attacks here, but we had the myth dispelled in Dundalk not so long ago.

As a poster said here earlier what makes us different?
What makes us somehow immune to the organised sexual assaults?
What will make us immune to ghettoes and no go areas for women ?
What makes us immune to the lone wolfes who want to slaughter people with a vehicle in the name of allah?
What makes immune to having people who despise us and want to attack us because someone else in some other country did something or said something about their religion?

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

And try as you might you cannot claim that Kosova, or indeed Bosnia, are representative of what passes for most muslim countries taking into account location, and especially history.

No, they don't fit your idea of what a Muslim country is.
This country is over 96% Muslim. There are none of the issues you seem to think are going to befall Ireland in the future.
So as you can see, it's not the religion that is the problem.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

No, they don't fit your idea of what a Muslim country is.
This country is over 96% Muslim. There are none of the issues you seem to think are going to befall Ireland in the future.
So as you can see, it's not the religion that is the problem.

First off, you're comparing a country with already a majority to a country where Muslims are currently a minority, and their cultural habits/customs are not established.

Secondly, yes, we are talking about the future, and while you might dismiss his vision of the future, by the same logic, he could easily dismiss yours.

Basically, the comparisons between the two countries are useless. It makes more sense to look at countries like France, Germany, or Belgium which don't have a majority of Muslims, and have experienced major recent growth in their Islamic populations.