Boss calling solicitor over contract

skallywag

Once you agree to a set notice period when taking on a position then from a professional standpoint it should most definitely be honoured if the employer requests it.

I know that there are frequent visitors to this forum who will tell you that references are worthless these days, but I for one, and many other peers in a similar position, will never hire someone without a strong reference (lessons learned from the past). Reneging on an agreed notice period is telling me that a potential empoyee cannot be trusted and is not true to their word.

You can also think of it from the opposite side, i.e. how would you feel if your employer was obliged to give you one months notice on terminating your contract, but told you that they were giving you just one week?

wonski

Glass fused light wrote: »

I transitioned a number of places from weekly to monthly and it was a long payroll process, places mainly moved to monthly EFT when moving out of cash due to the security risk.




1 week after 15 years suggests something has gone seriously with the relationship.

Agreed. I rarely change jobs, but when I do it always is a friendly atmosphere.

Can't believe that some people would bring a solicitor into it.

To the op, the only work reference your oh has is from this job. They can't give bad references, but they can say that enough notice was not given.

If the new job is certain, it doesn't matter, though.

The whole situation sounds bizarre tbh.

skallywag

wonski wrote: »

They can't give bad references, but they can say that enough notice was not given.

Going a little off topic here, but this is very much a myth. For sure you are not going to put down anything negative in writing, but most team managers I know will handle the reference topic over a short phone call. I have been called numerous times for a reference, where I will go out of my way to sing the praises of an ex employee if they deserve it (which to be honest is 90% of the cases). In the rare case though that I was not happy with an employee I will also very clearly make this known. You don't particulary need to say something negative to get this point accross either.

paulpd

If it's closing down does she not become entitled to redundancy if she hangs on a few more months? (Pretty substantial after 15 years service).

NeonSquares

NeonSquares wrote: »

Ok, so update;

Contract states a month........my partner is giving two weeks notice

I'm baffled as to why you would think the frequency of being paid has anything got ot do with the notice period.

wonski

skallywag wrote: »

Going a little off topic here, but this is very much a myth. For sure you are not going to put down anything negative in writing, but most team managers I know will handle the reference topic over a short phone call. I have been called numerous times for a reference, where I will go out of my way to sing the praises of an ex employee if they deserve it (which to be honest is 90% of the cases). In the rare case though that I was not happy with an employee I will also very clearly make this known. You don't particulary need to say something negative to get this point accross either.

Myth or not, most managers would give good references unless someone really messed up on regular basis.

Off topic, but the term small country came up here few times in here and I witnessed it many times. I only guess this depends on the industry you work in, but food, qa/qc business is small enough for your name to be recognised.

skallywag

wonski wrote: »

Myth or not, most managers would give good references unless someone really messed up on regular basis

Definitely agree with that. In general most managers I know would only tend negative when there was a serious attitide problem in play, and the person was a nightmare to work with.

Glass fused light

paulpd wrote: »

If it's closing down does she not become entitled to redundancy if she hangs on a few more months? (Pretty substantial after 15 years service).

2 weeks per year of service, but if the employer is not waving her cheque book, could be the employer is bust and they will have to rely on the Social fund for the payment (this won't be on the day you leave)

Even then in a big place you have to weigh the benefit of jumping early into a good job, rather than wait, go through the emotional wringer everyday, and then be competing against a large pool of ex-colleges with similar skillsets.

If the place is going bust and the boss is having a meltdown (she probably has personal guarantees against the business, and could be looking at loosing everything) every work day could be hell.

NeonSquares

Glass fused light wrote: »

2 weeks per year of service, but if the employer is not waving her cheque book, could be the employer is bust and they will have to rely on the Social fund for the payment (this won't be on the day you leave)

Even then in a big place you have to weigh the benefit of jumping early into a good job, rather than wait, go through the emotional wringer everyday, and then be competing against a large pool of ex-colleges with similar skillsets.

If the place is going bust and the boss is having a meltdown (she probably has personal guarantees against the business, and could be looking at loosing everything) every work day could be hell.

This is pretty much what we suspect, putting the length of notice given by my partner aside a minute, the way this boss has handled herself is disgraceful.

As my partner is jumping ship before it goes under, the boss is clearly afraid the rest will follow suit and what would make a final few weeks that would be hard probably even worse.

But I'm only looking out for my partner who was very upset at the way the boss handled herself and the situation, my partner was even willing to put in 3 weeks until the boss went off on one.

The whole solicitor threat is what took everyone aback.

beauf

The problem will be getting a reference. Is there HR there can give a generic reference without going through this manager.

beauf

wonski wrote: »

Myth or not, most managers would give good references unless someone really messed up on regular basis. ...

I dunno some managers get the hump when people leave. There's been a few threads here where people struggle to get references from managers they thought they had left on good terms with.

davo10

The only tangible consequence of not working your notice is the loss of a reference and the risk that the manager will pop up again in another company which may impact on your wife. No employer, particularly one with diminished finances is going to initiate legal proceedings, it's just an empty threat and the solicitor will tell her to cop on.

Having said that, one weeks notice is pretty poor form.

runawaybishop

wonski wrote: »

Myth or not, most managers would give good references unless someone really messed up on regular basis.

Off topic, but the term small country came up here few times in here and I witnessed it many times. I only guess this depends on the industry you work in, but food, qa/qc business is small enough for your name to be recognised.

It is a myth that a manager cannot give a bad reference. They cannot tell an untruth, but you absolutely can give a ****ty reference very easily.

E.g. Would you hire X again?
No.

Glass fused light

NeonSquares wrote: »

This is pretty much what we suspect, putting the length of notice given by my partner aside a minute, the way this boss has handled herself is disgraceful.

As my partner is jumping ship before it goes under, the boss is clearly afraid the rest will follow suit and what would make a final few weeks that would be hard probably even worse.

But I'm only looking out for my partner who was very upset at the way the boss handled herself and the situation, my partner was even willing to put in 3 weeks until the boss went off on one.

The whole solicitor threat is what took everyone aback.

How open has the boss been about what is going on?
The solicitor may be evidence of her desperation.

Unless there was a sudden change in the business her boss has probably known for months that the company was in trouble. It would be a process eg slowly realising the place has problems, jigging around to try fix it, pushing in saving and then borrowings, accepting its not improving, comming to the realisation that gone.

Her accountant would recommends a winding up process and pull in the solicitor for advice and probably the bank too. Winding the company down can be a juggling act. Cash inflows and outflows become key, where every morning the first calculation is whether or not the company is insolvent. If it is she has no option but to stop trading and lay everyone off that morning with no notice. She or the inhouse accountant may have already been doing the calcs for weeks. Now she has to redo the basis of the calc and the loss of your partner's role pushes it that bit nearer the knife edge (or over).

She probably has worse employment prospect than anyone else in the business. Employees have to explain how they took redundancy in their stride with no residue which will impact their new team. She has to convince an employer that transitioning from where she was the final authority to being managed wont be a problem plus the management failure werent her fault.

If your partner is in the position to work the 3 weeks, going in and and having a calm discussion offering to work the extra week once the boss adjust her behaviour may not be a bad thing. If nothing else it allows her to pull her boss up when she crosses the line. It may also get the company across the line to a break even position and her boss may be willing to fill in the paperwork for the redundancy.

wonski

I don't know a single person that didn't get a job because of bad references.

Is it a myth? I don't know, but most managers just let it go at the end.

References are usually checked at the end of the recruitment process, unless you really took a piss there is not a person I know that would make someone not getting a job to get back at them.

road_high

Funniest thing I've read in a while...he's going to call his solicitor and do what exactly? Force her stay and do a job against her will.
Little wonder your wife is leaving and more luck to her to get away from that idiot.

road_high

wonski wrote: »

I don't know a single person that didn't get a job because of bad references.

Is it a myth? I don't know, but most managers just let it go at the end.

References are usually checked at the end of the recruitment process, unless you really took a piss there is not a person I know that would make someone not getting a job to get back at them.

References aren't really worth the paper they're written on unless it's word of mouth through bosses knowing one another in a small industry or organization. Which you probably won't even know about to start with.

davo10

wonski wrote: »

I don't know a single person that didn't get a job because of bad references.

Is it a myth? I don't know, but most managers just let it go at the end.

References are usually checked at the end of the recruitment process, unless you really took a piss there is not a person I know that would make someone not getting a job to get back at them.

As an employer, I can assure you that you are wrong. As another poster said, a phone call can kill an applicant's chance. Employers are rightly wary of putting anything in writing, but a simple "would you employ this person again?" is a killer for someone who leaves on bad terms.

skallywag

davo10 wrote: »

... but a simple "would you employ this person again?" is a killer for someone who leaves on bad terms.

This is normally always the last question that I get asked myself when I'm called for a reference, and is also the last question I ask myself when looking for one. It's a simple yes/no answer, and doesn't leave one open to any type of blowback.

It genuinely amazes me that a lot of people seem to really think that employers never bother to check references.

wonski

davo10 wrote: »

As an employer, I can assure you that you are wrong. As another poster said, a phone call can kill an applicant's chance. Employers are rightly wary of putting anything in writing, but a simple "would you employ this person again?" is a killer for someone who leaves on bad terms.

On bad terms, yes.

All other situations yes would be normal.

We are running off topic here, but after 15 years of employment not getting good references would be difficult, unless you have done something criminal tbh.

davo10

wonski wrote: »

On bad terms, yes.

All other situations yes would be normal.

We are running off topic here, but after 15 years of employment not getting good references would be difficult, unless you have done something criminal tbh.

If you leave on bad terms, that is what the employer bases the answer to that question on. We are on topic, people leave jobs all the time for a variety of reasons. it's how you leave, not why which effects the answer to that question.

Glass fused light

wonski wrote: »

On bad terms, yes.

All other situations yes would be normal.

We are running off topic here, but after 15 years of employment not getting good references would be difficult, unless you have done something criminal tbh.

Her boss is loosing her business, thats about as personal as it gets. if the OP's partner's resignation is seen as the last nail in the coffin, the last 15 years will mean SFA.

davo10

Glass fused light wrote: »

Her boss is loosing her business, thats about as personal as it gets. if the OP's partner's resignation is seen as the last nail in the coffin, the last 15 years will mean SFA.

I'd be interested to know what the op is basing his/her opinion on the business closing on, is it speculation or have the employees been told the company is closing?

Glass fused light

davo10 wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what the op is basing his/her opinion on the business closing on, is it speculation or have the employees been told the company is closing?

Post 27 by the OP suggests an official announcement with a fixed date.

road_high

Glass fused light wrote: »

Her boss is loosing her business, thats about as personal as it gets. if the OP's partner's resignation is seen as the last nail in the coffin, the last 15 years will mean SFA.

And the employee owes her what exactly? Threatening a solicitor on staff is beyond ridiculous and is all the confirmation the OP needs in my opinion that it's time to move on. Blaming the collapse of your business on one employee is even more absurd.
Only thing that I would wonder about is staying to reap some redundancy once this sinking ship folds.

road_high

skallywag wrote: »

This is normally always the last question that I get asked myself when I'm called for a reference, and is also the last question I ask myself when looking for one. It's a simple yes/no answer, and doesn't leave one open to any type of blowback.

It genuinely amazes me that a lot of people seem to really think that employers never bother to check references.

Why would people put down references that may give a bad one? Unlikely.
That's why I don't personally much faith in them.

Franz Von Peppercorn

davo10 wrote: »

If you leave on bad terms, that is what the employer bases the answer to that question on. We are on topic, people leave jobs all the time for a variety of reasons. it's how you leave, not why which effects the answer to that question.

Very odd. You’re saying that question is asked and no other follow up regarding why? “I wouldn’t hire her again because..... I didn’t like that she left” isn’t much of a reason.

Glass fused light

road_high wrote: »

Why would people put down references that may give a bad one? Unlikely.
That's why I don't personally much faith in them.

Very likely. I know someone, took a year to get rid of the employee, as in they gave the employee a choice to leave with a you worked here x to y ref only or be sacked. 3 years later the manager gets a call for a personal character reference from a potential employer at the behest of the ex-employee.

davo10

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Very odd. You’re saying that question is asked and no other follow up regarding why? “I wouldn’t hire her again because..... I didn’t like that she left” isn’t much of a reason.

It's not odd nor unusual, a "no" is enough. I've been called by employers about employees who have my worked for be years ago because my company was listed in their work record, in all cases bar one I have said "yes" to the question, but I have made calls to other employers and they have answered "no", I haven't considered the applicant further.

Franz Von Peppercorn

davo10 wrote: »

It's not odd nor unusual, a "no" is enough.

And you have no interest in why? No concern that the reason the other employer has for not employing someone she actually did employ for 15 years is petty?

No way to run a business, mate.

In any case I don’t see why we’ve moved onto references since the op has a job. Her next job will reference this one.