Landlord refusing to give extra key

Sourcream

Hi there,

Having some real difficulty with ires managed property atm.

I am renting a 2 bed with my other half. Her sister is moving in with us for a few months for a quiet place during her exams in college.

Issue is both of us work and the sister's college timetable is flexible, she could be home to study around 1pm, when the rest of us wont be back until 6-7.

We can't really share the keys with work schedules not lining up properly etc.

They are saying that they will only give keys to people named on the lease.
To be named on the lease they need proof of income etc. which as a student she wouldn't have.
However the sister will effectively be a dependant so I don't see any reason why she could not be on the lease and still have key.

Our lease provides for the apartment housing the leaseholders plus dependants up to the sleeping capacity of the apartment. Which we are still under.

We can't get a key cut as its a 'security key' which no locksmith will copy without landlord permission also need a keyfob for main block door which we cant copy.
I know public services walk through that door with a code. But the landlord says 'That code doesn't work anymore'.

It is interfering with both of our work to make this happen and we need to have the sister with us as with circumstances she has nowhere else to go at the moment.

Any advice from anyone here?

Much appreciated.

Fian

It does not sound as if your landlord has any legal obligation to assist, though clearly it would be the friendly thing to do. Are you in a RPZ with a below market rent? I ask because it sounds as if your landlord is not interested in encouraging you to stay.

What would happen if you or your wife lost your own key or keyfob? Presumably the computer would then say yes to providing a replacement? Perhaps the lost keyfob could be remotely deactivated though.

dudara

It sounds like you didn’t get permission from the landlord to have your sister move in?

Ultimately, it’s his apartment and you agreed to his terms when you signed the lease.

Are you speaking with the landlord or with an agency?

godtabh

I'd agree with the landlord here. An extra person staying would mean extra wear and tear. If you want some one else living there you may have to pay extra.

endacl

Keyfobs and security keys are quite expensive to duplicate. Perhaps your landlord is just tight?

lawred2

Sourcream wrote: »

Hi there,

Having some real difficulty with ires managed property atm.

I am renting a 2 bed with my other half. Her sister is moving in with us for a few months for a quiet place during her exams in college.

Issue is both of us work and the sister's college timetable is flexible, she could be home to study around 1pm, when the rest of us wont be back until 6-7.

We can't really share the keys with work schedules not lining up properly etc.

They are saying that they will only give keys to people named on the lease.
To be named on the lease they need proof of income etc. which as a student she wouldn't have.
However the sister will effectively be a dependant so I don't see any reason why she could not be on the lease and still have key.

Our lease provides for the apartment housing the leaseholders plus dependants up to the sleeping capacity of the apartment. Which we are still under.

We can't get a key cut as its a 'security key' which no locksmith will copy without landlord permission also need a keyfob for main block door which we cant copy.
I know public services walk through that door with a code. But the landlord says 'That code doesn't work anymore'.

It is interfering with both of our work to make this happen and we need to have the sister with us as with circumstances she has nowhere else to go at the moment.

Any advice from anyone here?

Much appreciated.

This isn't right - you can't just move whoever you want in to a rented property...

Will the sister be paying rent?

Sourcream

To answer some of the above:

Is it a stingy landlord?
Its not about price, we are willing to pay the cost

Haven't agreed that someone else should move in.
Our lease is not based on how many people are staying here. We are renting the apartment as two leaseholders and the clause in relation to number of occupants is that it 'Should not exceed the sleeping capacity of the apartment',

Being two double bedrooms, is 4 people. We are now 3.

Is this an agency?
This is ires fund management

o1s1n

endacl wrote: »

Keyfobs and security keys are quite expensive to duplicate. Perhaps your landlord is just tight?

How is it tight? The landlord provided security keys and fobs I am assuming for the people on the list, they're not obliged to provide anymore.

If I were landlord I wouldn't fancy having more than a couple of sets of keys to the apartment floating around.

Sourcream

Seems bizzare to me in the modern world though.

Concept of two working parents that don't come home until late.
Wouldn't for an example a child who maybe is coming home from school need access to the apartment. Same concept?

awec

Standard practice not to give out extra keys. The landlord is never going to give a key to their property to someone that they know nothing about and who has not signed any lease agreement. They would be crazy to do this.

gmisk

o1s1n wrote: »

How is it tight? The landlord provided security keys and fobs I am assuming for the people on the list, they're not obliged to provide anymore.

If I were landlord I wouldn't fancy having more than a couple of sets of keys to the apartment floating around.

The OP said he offered to pay for them.

Is it a stingy landlord?
Its not about price, we are willing to pay the cost

Do you already have 2 sets or 1?

awec

It is nothing to do with cost. His landlord is Ires, they are not short of a few quid.

2 tenants = 2 keys.

Gumbo

This is the way things will go now that everybody wants the landlords head on a spike.

When all the normal landlords with hands on approach with their tenants leave then it’s just these large property companies left and the tenant will suffer more.

awec

kceire wrote: »

This is the way things will go now that everybody wants the landlords head on a spike.

When all the normal landlords with hands on approach with their tenants leave then it’s just these large property companies left and the tenant will suffer more.

It seems every single problem that every tenant has now is just blamed implicitly on the government.

Tenants who rent from these large property companies have the benefit of renting from professional landlords who know what they are doing. Who perform maintenance in a timely manner. Who respond to requests in a timely manner.

Sourcream

I do see the landlords side to this actually. Makes sense.

Still I need to solve this problem.

I believe that with no clause in my current lease concerning keys, I am entitled to change the locks myself. And go from there.

I can figure out the key fob issue separately.

Zulu

awec wrote: »

It seems every single problem that every tenant has now is just blamed implicitly on the government.

Tenants who rent from these large property companies have the benefit of renting from professional landlords who know what they are doing. Who perform maintenance in a timely manner. Who respond to requests in a timely manner.

...but dont give out additional keys...

Nekarsulm

The landlords problem is simply that 1)these type keys are expensive, and
2) When people leave a property all the keys are seldom returned.
Thus you have keys to the building floating about, and liable to fall into the wrong hands.
The landlord dosent want to have to change (quite expensive) locks every time someone leaves.
Also, offering to pay for the keys being cut is a no-no, because then the tenant owns the keys and won't return them when leaving.

o1s1n

Sourcream wrote: »

I do see the landlords side to this actually. Makes sense.

Still I need to solve this problem.

I believe that with no clause in my current lease concerning keys, I am entitled to change the locks myself. And go from there.

I can figure out the key fob issue separately.

You're not entitled to change the locks, they're your landlord's property, not yours. They could take that really badly and want you out of the place if they found out. Be super careful in that regard.

Sourcream

Ires re-paints and changes locks everytime they switch tenant anyway I believe.

Good practice on their part really!

Still have the problem though!

Hold on, if they're allowed to have occupants up to sleeping capacity then they can add up to that number.

It's just surprising that they MUST provide proof of income, if they are paying the rent.

Fian

Sourcream wrote: »

I do see the landlords side to this actually. Makes sense.

Still I need to solve this problem.

I believe that with no clause in my current lease concerning keys, I am entitled to change the locks myself. And go from there.

I can figure out the key fob issue separately.

You don't need to have a specific clause in your lease forbidding you to change the locks for it to be illegal. Any more than you need a specific clause forbidding you to knock through the internal walls for that to be illegal.

I would suggest you think long and hard about it before you take that step, or you may find yourself in receipt of an eviction notice. As it is Ires Reit and therefore the rent is likely high end I imagine you may also be a mark for damages and they will not be shy about pursuing you.

Sourcream

Sourcream wrote: »

Our lease provides for the apartment housing the leaseholders plus dependants up to the sleeping capacity of the apartment. Which we are still under.

I think you are very much stretching what a dependent is. The clause is to cover you having children not giving a spare room to someone else.
Have you been paying her rent elsewhere to now?
Have you been paying her fees and or an allowance.
If you have then yes she is probably your dependent and you should be able to make a case to your landlord.

godtabh

Sourcream wrote: »

I do see the landlords side to this actually. Makes sense.

Still I need to solve this problem.

I believe that with no clause in my current lease concerning keys, I am entitled to change the locks myself. And go from there.

I can figure out the key fob issue separately.

If you did that I'd expect a termination notice very promptly. You have no rights to make alterations with out permission.

beauf

awec wrote: »

...Tenants who rent from these large property companies have the benefit of renting from professional landlords who know what they are doing. ....

They refused a third key. So are we to assume that's the professional approach and thus the correct thing to do...

awec

At the end of the day OP, you have no way of getting a third key unless your landlord gives you one. They have given you the conditions under which they'll provide a third key, if you can't meet those conditions then unfortunately you're out of luck.

The clause about sleeping capacity is not about moving in what are effectively new tenants for months on end, but instead to cover having children and overnight guests.

As for her being a dependent or not, I am not sure this is relevant. I would not think that they give out extra keys to children of tenants either.

breadmond

Changing the locks yourself shouldn't be an issue as long as you keep the originals and put them back when you leave

K.Flyer

breadmond wrote: »

Changing the locks yourself shouldn't be an issue as long as you keep the originals and put them back when you leave

This is really not a good idea, especially in apartment block situations.
The owner and letting agent will have a spare key to the apartment in order to let themselves access into the apartment in the event of an emergency.
If such an emergency were to occur and they found the locks had been changed, especially to circumvent their desire to not issue spares, you could find yourself on the wrong side of a Notice.

Sourcream

Thanks all for your input!

Doop

Maybe just work outside the box a little... (especially considering IRES are a large company as well.)

Simply phone up and say you lost a set of keys or they were stolen or left on holidays etc and you need a new set and will naturally pay the cos incurred of reproduction.. #simple?

davo10

Strange thread, how a college going sister moving in for a couple of months to study would qualify as "dependent" baffles me. Maybe she is dependent on the op for rent free accommodation but unless the op is supporting her, paying for her tuition, meals etc, it's hard to see how this is anything more than a effort to move in another adult tenant without having to pay more. The lease appears to set out strict requirements for consideration of a tenant and the op is bound by them.

From social welfares point of view, a "dependent" is:

An adult dependant is usually your spouse, civil partner or cohabitant. A cohabitant is one of two adults (whether of the same or opposite sex) who live together as a couple in an intimate and committed relationship and who are not close relatives.


Those security keys are there for a reason and the LL has outlined the terms under which they are given, I suspect in this case it was to ensure that only those named in the lease are entitled to reside there.

Op, the key is a secondary issue, you want to move another adult into your property rent free.

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