2018 World Championship

Joe_ Public · 30-04-2018 8:39pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Williams will struggle against anyone good. He'll go through phases of potting well, but when he ain't he'll have a completely lackluster attitude to all other departments of the game. Does he actually take the game seriously these days?

In fairness he is top 8 now and won 3 times on tour this season. Actually think he might be No.2 on the one year ranking list. So he most certainly does take it seriously. Otherwise I’d be inclined to agree. I think Carter has a great chance to beat him.

Permabear · 30-04-2018 8:41pm

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AllForIt · 30-04-2018 9:22pm

Barry Hearn thinking of naming and shaming those who take over 30 seconds a shot on average, over the course of a season I think. Not a bad idea, the only problem I see with it is that players that are guilty of it could try to explain it away and maybe couldn't care less anyway. https://www.bbc.com/sport/snooker/43952575

Brae100 · 30-04-2018 9:31pm

Carter won't get within an ass's roar of Williams. His disruptive, angry tactics won't affect William's in the slightest.

The Golden Miller · 30-04-2018 9:47pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

In fairness he is top 8 now and won 3 times on tour this season. Actually think he might be No.2 on the one year ranking list. So he most certainly does take it seriously. Otherwise I’d be inclined to agree. I think Carter has a great chance to beat him.

Ye, the last 2 or 3 years he seems to have put in more work compared to the previous decade, but I doubt he kills himself. The impression you get is that he'll play attacking snooker and try and win that way, but if it's gets scrappy then he doesn't give a toss, he's just there to enjoy himself and any progression deep into a tournament is bonus territory. Well that's the impression I get

Permabear · 30-04-2018 9:50pm

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The Golden Miller · 30-04-2018 9:52pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Ye, I thought Williams would give Ding a real rattle last year, as he seemed to be putting more work in. But he got slaughtered. Any time the game got scrappy, quick and laissez-faire safety shots to anywhere on the upper end of the table seemed to do Williams, and it let Ding in again and again

Brae100 wrote: »

Carter won't get within an ass's roar of Williams. His disruptive, angry tactics won't affect William's in the slightest.

Williams' lax attitude may have an upside after all!

The Golden Miller · 30-04-2018 9:54pm

Permabear wrote: »

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I agree. TBH, I think slow play is fair game too, as it suits some players better, Ebdon for example. It's akin to parking the bus in a game of football. More way's to play the game than what suits attacking players. Well in the World Championships anyway

Milkman.. · 30-04-2018 10:08pm

Doesn't mean anything "naming and shaming"

Anyone with the the stats could name the slow players if they wanted

Hearns looking to boost profits ,same as widening the pockets

Permabear · 30-04-2018 10:09pm

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Joe_ Public · 30-04-2018 10:11pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Ye, the last 2 or 3 years he seems to have put in more work compared to the previous decade, but I doubt he kills himself. The impression you get is that he'll play attacking snooker and try and win that way, but if it's gets scrappy then he doesn't give a toss, he's just there to enjoy himself and any progression deep into a tournament is bonus territory. Well that's the impression I get

I’d say he’s surprised himself how well he’s doing, given he was on the verge of quitting the game last year. My honest opinion is that the likes of Williams and other older guys must be pretty scathing of the younger generation of guys who should really have left them behind by now. Of course Ronnie has spelled that out quite clearly on several occasions. Williams could beat Carter but it would be a bit alarming if Ding or Hawkins couldn’t put him away next round.

Permabear · 30-04-2018 10:35pm

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Brae100 · 30-04-2018 10:44pm

Permabear wrote: »

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A best of seven is pretty meaningless compared to a best of 25 in Sheffield. Underestimate MJW at your peril. This new Sight Right technique has given him a new lease of life and he is a completely different animal now. Since he has had something new to work on, he has been putting in up to ten hours a day on the practice table. He has the best temperament in the game, but don't let that laid back attitude, or "viral" shots fool you.

Carter's aggressiveness and disruptive tactics worked for him against Ronnie, but could work against him against Willo. If Willo gets a bit of a run of the balls, Carter will start to lose it and implode. If Carter gets a run, Willo will shrug it off. The bookies have Willo as strong favourite at 1/2, and I think they are right. The other three quarters are a coin toss.

AllForIt · 30-04-2018 10:46pm

Permabear wrote: »

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But as Hearn alluded to in the interview I linked to, he seems to think ( and I don't know if this is true or not cause I don't watch that much snooker) is that some players are tactically bogging down games in general.That means practically that it's not just a question that one is taking a long time over one particular shot, like Ebdon would do, but just a deliberate general slowness to take momentum out of a more free flowing younger inexperienced player over the course of the whole game. If that is true, and I don't know myself if it's true, then it would be hard for a ref to call that out since it's not about one particular shot. A ref couldn't ever say 'you shouldn't have played safe there - you should have gone for that moderately difficult pot'. It's a tricky one.

Joe_ Public · 30-04-2018 10:50pm

Definitely wouldn’t underestimate Williams against Carter, whatever about what comes after. I dont get the comment about Carters “aggressive and disruptive” tactics against Ronnie. What exactly am I suppose to be missing?

AllForIt · 30-04-2018 10:54pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Definitely wouldn’t underestimate Williams against Carter, whatever about what comes after. I dont get the comment about Carters “aggressive and disruptive” tactics against Ronnie. What exactly am I suppose to be missing?

Williams seems to have a 'oh lets see how this goes and I don't care if it goes bad' attitude, where Carter has a 'I'm hungry to win' attitude.

I hope we get a good game in any case, cause it's been pretty boring so far.

Brae100 · 30-04-2018 11:08pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Definitely wouldn’t underestimate Williams against Carter, whatever about what comes after. I dont get the comment about Carters “aggressive and disruptive” tactics against Ronnie. What exactly am I suppose to be missing?

Basically he employed gamesmanship tactics against Ronnie. They were both practice partners back in the day and he knew how to get to Ronnie. Much has been made about the incident where Ronnie shoulder charged Ali, but apparently that was in retaliation to Ali doing exactly the same thing earlier, which the cameras missed. Ali was constantly sledging and a perfect example of the disruptive tactics was when he needed a few snookers on the pink. No chance of winning - just trying to get into Ronnie's head. And it worked. But that was his final. To finally beat Ronnie. His over exuberant celebration at the end and his bitchy, un-gentlemanly post match interviews showed where his head was at. Contrast that to MJW. Willo will destroy him over 25.

Brae100 · 30-04-2018 11:14pm

Apparently the new Average Shot Time rules are as a response to Gamesmanship, as opposed to the entertainment argument. There are a few out there (Rory McCloud springs to mind), who purposely drag the tempo down. Perfectly legal, but tantamount to cheating according to Hearn. I agree.

Joe_ Public · 30-04-2018 11:24pm

Brae100 wrote: »

Basically he employed gamesmanship tactics against Ronnie. They were both practice partners back in the day and he knew how to get to Ronnie. Much has been made about the incident where Ronnie shoulder charged Ali, but apparently that was in retaliation to Ali doing exactly the same thing earlier, which the cameras missed. Ali was constantly sledging and a perfect example of the disruptive tactics was when he needed a few snookers on the pink. No chance of winning - just trying to get into Ronnie's head. And it worked. But that was his final. To finally beat Ronnie. His over exuberant celebration at the end and his bitchy, un-gentlemanly post match interviews showed where his head was at. Contrast that to MJW. Willo will destroy him over 25.

Ali shoulder charged Ronnie earlier in the match? Wow, amazed the cameras missed it. They usually pick up everything.

Can’t say about the constant sledging, didn’t pick any of it up. Think it was 17th frame he played on for snookers, that was a bit ott but wouldn’t get too overexcited about it either. I’m not even Carter’s biggest fan, but thought he simply deserved it and Ronnie to be fair was gracious afterwards.

I’d say Carter might come on again from that, should give him a boost though you never know at the same time. Could be a good close match.

Permabear · 30-04-2018 11:26pm

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Permabear · 30-04-2018 11:34pm

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The Golden Miller · 30-04-2018 11:40pm

Permabear wrote: »

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I agree. Too many frames being won in one visit becomes boring, too much slow snooker becomes boring. You need that fine medium. Meddle with other tournaments, but leave the World Championships alone. The Worlds should encompass everything, with every player afforded the right to play to their strengths, with the best player coming out on top after 2 weeks

Brae100 · 30-04-2018 11:40pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Ali shoulder charged Ronnie earlier in the match? Wow, amazed the cameras missed it. They usually pick up everything.

Can’t say about the constant sledging, didn’t pick any of it up. Think it was 17th frame he played on for snookers, that was a bit ott but wouldn’t get too overexcited about it either. I’m not even Carter’s biggest fan, but thought he simply deserved it and Ronnie to be fair was gracious afterwards.

I’d say Carter might come on again from that, should give him a boost though you never know at the same time. Could be a good close match.

I'll be the first to admit that I am prejudiced against Carter at this stage, (but not because he beat Ronnie. I think Ronnie can be an insufferable arsehole at times). I have developed a real dislike of Carter. I had huge sympathy for him due to his cancer and Crohn's battles, but he is just not gracious. He also comes across as a bit right wing, pro-brexit etc. While that should not influence my opinion of him as a snooker player, it does. But watch his post match interviews after the Ronnie match. He was obnoxious.

Brae100 · 30-04-2018 11:48pm

Permabear wrote: »

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I too would be surprised if Williams wins. Higgins beats him every day of the week for me. But I just think that this thread hasn't rated him correctly. He has been superb this year. Carter isn't in the halfpenny place compared to him. Experience, temperament, current form, previous match fatigue and emotion. It's just MJW for me. People who fancy Carter, you can easily get 6/4.

Brae100 · 30-04-2018 11:55pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Ali shoulder charged Ronnie earlier in the match? Wow, amazed the cameras missed it. They usually pick up everything.

You've obviously never been to the Crucible - especially with the two table set-up. It's really tight for the cameramen. But I'm just repeating what I have heard from people who were there. There was huge needle and lots of comments between the two off camera. Consensus is that Ali was a bit of an arse.

Joe_ Public · 01-05-2018 12:02am

Brae100 wrote: »

I'll be the first to admit that I am prejudiced against Carter at this stage, (but not because he beat Ronnie. I think Ronnie can be an insufferable arsehole at times). I have developed a real dislike of Carter. I had huge sympathy for him due to his cancer and Crohn's battles, but he is just not gracious. He also comes across as a bit right wing, pro-brexit etc. While that should not influence my opinion of him as a snooker player, it does. But watch his post match interviews after the Ronnie match. He was obnoxious.

Carter is and always has been abrasive. There’s a touch of the Ian Poulters about him, without that edge he’d feel as if he couldn’t compete I reckon. I vaguely recall an encounter with Trump in which Carter sarcastically tapped the table after Judd fluked a snooker so probably no love lost between that pair either. I think Ebdon is his biggest mate in the game so that might explain a lot!!

taytobreath · 01-05-2018 12:03am

Brae100 wrote: »

You've obviously never been to the Crucible - especially with the two table set-up. It's really tight for the cameramen. But I'm just repeating what I have heard from people who were there. There was huge needle and lots of comments between the two off camera. Consensus is that Ali was a bit of an arse.

In fairness to Hendry who was commentating on it at the time he did say that "there is an edge to this match".
But I think you're reading into what Carter done too much, the guy was fired up for every shot he took, that's not trying to intimidate your opponent.
During his interview he said he was a changed man from his last world final and that he wasn't gonna let Ronnie bully him this time, thats not an obnoxious interview.
I think the shoulder charge was sour grapes by Ronnie and I'm Ronnie's number 1 fan in the whole wide world:D

Joe_ Public · 01-05-2018 12:05am

Brae100 wrote: »

You've obviously never been to the Crucible - especially with the two table set-up. It's really tight for the cameramen. But I'm just repeating what I have heard from people who were there. There was huge needle and lots of comments between the two off camera. Consensus is that Ali was a bit of an arse.

Yeah I’ve been there but so what. Cameras usually do pick up most things. Anyway you’ve heard what you’ve heard so I guess there’s something there. It’s history now so probably best to move on to the matches that are left.

Brae100 · 01-05-2018 12:29am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yeah I’ve been there but so what. Cameras usually do pick up most things. Anyway you’ve heard what you’ve heard so I guess there’s something there. It’s history now so probably best to move on to the matches that are left.

Apologies, BTW. I realised as soon as I posted that comment that it came across as a dick comment. Didn't mean it like that. In fairness, you did seem to understand what I was saying. Fair play.

Brae100 · 01-05-2018 12:31am

taytobreath wrote: »

In fairness to Hendry who was commentating on it at the time he did say that "there is an edge to this match".
But I think you're reading into what Carter done too much, the guy was fired up for every shot he took, that's not trying to intimidate your opponent.
During his interview he said he was a changed man from his last world final and that he wasn't gonna let Ronnie bully him this time, thats not an obnoxious interview.
I think the shoulder charge was sour grapes by Ronnie and I'm Ronnie's number 1 fan in the whole wide world:D

There were other interviews after with different TV channels. He did himself no favours.

2018 World Championship

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