Noise levels in the workplace affecting my mental health

Pelvis

minikin wrote: »

Have you considered making some alternative options for yourself - get an admin role in a small company with a quiet environment... like a solicitors office etc?

You have to do all you can to be kind to yourself before expecting everyone else to change around you. Call centres by their nature are staffed by younger (noisier) folk who may not have gained the maturity of those with more experience under their belt - it’s the nature of the beast.

There’s no point in becoming a martyr to a situation just because ‘your rights... blah blah blah’. Take action NOW to find a better work situation, take care of yourself!

Have you read what the OP has posted at all?

minikin

Pelvis wrote: »

Have you read what the OP has posted at all?

Yes, I read the whole thing and all previous posts, thanks for asking.

I offered advice to the o.p. as someone who had been in a similar situation in the past.
I now run my own company, I now have complete control over my working environment.

My advice wasn't intended to please or displease you in particular Pelvis - sorry if you didn't like it.

I don't want to get into the pros and cons of the situation with you - just saying you have to select the battles you have a fair chance of winning.
So while it might be 'right' that the o/p/s employer 'should' provide a lovely tranquil atmosphere for them the sad reality is that they have to share that space with people who operate at different levels of energy and volume... so you can only change the things you can change.

• The workspace is noisy, the o.p. would have known this given previous experience in a call centre environment (in which they found it necessary to measure sound levels). This can't be changed.
  
• The o.p.'s reaction to that sound can't be easily changed by the employer / or the o.p.
  
• The easiest and most effective and rewarding change that can be made easily is for the o.p. to remove themselves to a quieter work environment, in which they can thrive professionally.

Gwen Cooper

minikin wrote: »

Have you considered making some alternative options for yourself - get an admin role in a small company with a quiet environment... like a solicitors office etc?

I don't mean to sound like a stubborn b***h, but this is my job. I've been doing it for years. It is something I am very good at and I worked extremely hard to get this position.

While I am in an admin job, it's still customer service related admin. Not legal or medical, not something that's usually done in a small office.

I love my job and I don't want to leave it.

minikin wrote: »

There’s no point in becoming a martyr to a situation just because ‘your rights... blah blah blah’.

I am looking to see if I have any grounds to bring this higher in the company or if I'm being unreasonable. I'm not trying to "become a martyr", I'm trying to find a solution to a problem that's affecting my health.

"Your rights... blah blah blah" - are you serious? You know that people have rights and are allowed to assert them, right?

minikin wrote: »

Take action NOW to find a better work situation, take care of yourself!

Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing, thanks for your suggestion.

Again, because some people seem to be missing that part: I am not talking about normal large office/call center noise. This is an excessive noise and I am not the only one who finds it appalling.

minikin

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

This is an excessive noise and I am not the only one who finds it appalling.[/B]

So move to somewhere quieter or take some of the many suggestions of noise canceling earphones????

It appears to me that you're frustrated with the situation and are looking to escalate, how will you win from this... it'll just cause you more stress and anxiety.

Look, I hope this all works out for you.
I've said my piece and offered my experience - take it or leave it for what it is.

Gwen Cooper

minikin wrote: »

So move to somewhere quieter or take some of the many suggestions of noise canceling earphones????

It appears to me that you're frustrated with the situation and are looking to escalate, how will you win from this... it'll just cause you more stress and anxiety.

Look, I hope this all works out for you.
I've said my piece and offered my experience - take it or leave it for what it is.

Like I said in my earlier post today, I will look at the earphones properly over the weekend.

I am frustrated with the situation, you're right. I'm not trying to win anything, I'm just trying to make sure that management here will do what management does in other departments of this company, and tell the employees to keep the noise down.

Imagine not being able to hear what a person next to you is saying because of the noise your colleagues make at the other end of the room. I'm in no way exaggerating - it is really bad. My team manager brought it up to their manager, because it was affecting my entire team, not just myself, and he did nothing. I'm trying to see that if they will do something if I bring the mental health factor into it. It would help not only me, but also my team.

Thank you for your suggestion, I know you mean well. Thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it.

Pelvis

minikin wrote: »

Yes, I read the whole thing and all previous posts, thanks for asking.

I offered advice to the o.p. as someone who had been in a similar situation in the past.
I now run my own company, I now have complete control over my working environment.

My advice wasn't intended to please or displease you in particular Pelvis - sorry if you didn't like it.

I don't want to get into the pros and cons of the situation with you - just saying you have to select the battles you have a fair chance of winning.
So while it might be 'right' that the o/p/s employer 'should' provide a lovely tranquil atmosphere for them the sad reality is that they have to share that space with people who operate at different levels of energy and volume... so you can only change the things you can change.

• The workspace is noisy, the o.p. would have known this given previous experience in a call centre environment (in which they found it necessary to measure sound levels). This can't be changed.
  
• The o.p.'s reaction to that sound can't be easily changed by the employer / or the o.p.
  
• The easiest and most effective and rewarding change that can be made easily is for the o.p. to remove themselves to a quieter work environment, in which they can thrive professionally.

Well if you had read their posts you will have read that working in a call center is not the problem. The problem is the people on the floor they are currently working on which affects the OPs team but especially her. Basically the people there are allowed run riot, which is something the employer CAN and SHOULD be doing something about, especially when presented with a case such as the OPs. It's got nothing to do with maturity, it an expectation of basic professionalism.

Simply saying the OP should get another job is not a solution, nor is it particularly helpful.

Gwen Cooper

Pelvis wrote: »

Well if you had read their posts you will have read that working in a call center is not the problem. The problem is the people on the floor they are currently working on which affects the OPs team but especially her. Basically the people there are allowed run riot, which is something the employer CAN and SHOULD be doing something about, especially when presented with a case such as the OPs. It's got nothing to do with maturity, it an expectation of basic professionalism.

Simply saying the OP should get another job is not a solution, nor is it particularly helpful.

Thanks Pelvis, that's exactly what I'm trying to say.

wexie

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

I am looking to see if I have any grounds to bring this higher in the company or if I'm being unreasonable. I'm not trying to "become a martyr", I'm trying to find a solution to a problem that's affecting my health.

"Your rights... blah blah blah" - are you serious? You know that people have rights and are allowed to assert them, right?

Again, because some people seem to be missing that part: I am not talking about normal large office/call center noise. This is an excessive noise and I am not the only one who finds it appalling.

Sadly I have more than a little experience with your situation, both with regards to BPD/anxiety/depression as well as a call center environment.

You are absolutely right in saying that you are entitled to a healthy work environment. Certainly if the noise is 'annoying' to people that do not experience sensory overload I can just imagine (actually I can't just imagine, I know) how it would affect you.
You are also absolutely right in saying that the company 'should' make reasonable accommodation in helping you deal with your disorder and, chances are if they 'wanted' to it would easily be achievable without any major cost. I can tell you without knowing your office environment there is definitely a possibility of you moving to a quieter spot in the building and if your colleagues are supportive they'd make it work somehow.

However (this is where it gets a bit harder to take I'm afraid)....in my experience there are companies that don't take this duty of care quite so seriously and look at it as more of a nuisance than anything else and will make all the right noises but little beyond that.

Which means depending on how you stand up for yourself you may as well start looking for a new job as it may not be appreciated, no matter how right you are.

My advice is speak to your manager about this and feel them out for how supportive they are. Phrase it carefully (in a non antagonistic way) in terms of productivity etc. etc. Ask if there is any occupational health support, occ. health people tend to have very practical solutions that could suit both you and the company.

minikin

Apologies, I thought the o.p. was looking for constructive solutions rather than validation. So here you go: "It's a disgrace, Joe"

Look, do you seriously believe that nobody can hear each other speaking in the room? If that was the case no work would be happening. It's a call centre - productivity is extremely closely monitored!

Perhaps the hearing problem lies particularly with the way the o.p. is processing audio. Sound affects different people in different ways. Not everyone is bothered with a noisy environment. Some people like music on while they work, some like complete silence.

Given that that is likely to be the case - change what YOU can change rather than expecting everyone else to change.

It's not fair, but life is not fair.
Take control of your environment even if that means finding a better one.

Or don't... but bear in mind - it's only the o.p. that is suffering from remaining in the current workplace.
I would put your health before any other consideration.
If a situation is hurting you physically or mentally then leave it - you owe that to yourself.

It's akin to a battered partner remaining with their abuser because they are their 'partner' ("it's my job") and spend their time crying out for help from their friends... OF COURSE the abuse shouldn't be happening and the abuser is in the wrong (The loud work colleagues) BUT the logical and crucial thing to do is immediately remove themselves from the relationship (job).

It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

Glass fused light

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

I am looking to see if I have any grounds to bring this higher in the company or if I'm being unreasonable. I'm not trying to "become a martyr", I'm trying to find a solution to a problem that's affecting my health.

"Your rights... blah blah blah" - are you serious? You know that people have rights and are allowed to assert them, right?



Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing, thanks for your suggestion.

Again, because some people seem to be missing that part: I am not talking about normal large office/call center noise. This is an excessive noise and I am not the only one who finds it appalling.

Your main difficulty is that you only have a right to reasonable accommodation.
Your employer has located your department on this floor.
You state that there has to be dialogue in the group to sucessfully complete tasks.
So for you to work in your role the whole department has to move which has already been vetoed
or reconfigure the work space to work for you.
First thing they will do is noise monitor, and that will not go down well with the noisy staff, so now they have to look out for bullying.
When they finish monitoring the results will be within acceptable levels otherwise every primary school in the country would be slapped with a noise abatement order.
So now they have to decide on what is an acceptable level of noise.
Telling other staff to keep it down means changing the culture of the group (not easy) and risks a bullying accusation.
So that leaves building a sound partition, and that not necessarily just slap up a wall, the whole floor has to meet the reg.
It's easier to offer you an equivalent position on an other floor, you either move or they have offered reasonable accommodation and your terminated on health grounds.


As for the others are they so appalled that they will go on record that they can't do their jobs as a result?

Glass fused light

Double post

Gwen Cooper

wexie wrote: »

Sadly I have more than a little experience with your situation, both with regards to BPD/anxiety/depression as well as a call center environment.

You are absolutely right in saying that you are entitled to a healthy work environment. Certainly if the noise is 'annoying' to people that do not experience sensory overload I can just imagine (actually I can't just imagine, I know) how it would affect you.
You are also absolutely right in saying that the company 'should' make reasonable accommodation in helping you deal with your disorder and, chances are if they 'wanted' to it would easily be achievable without any major cost. I can tell you without knowing your office environment there is definitely a possibility of you moving to a quieter spot in the building and if your colleagues are supportive they'd make it work somehow.

However (this is where it gets a bit harder to take I'm afraid)....in my experience there are companies that don't take this duty of care quite so seriously and look at it as more of a nuisance than anything else and will make all the right noises but little beyond that.

Which means depending on how you stand up for yourself you may as well start looking for a new job as it may not be appreciated, no matter how right you are.

My advice is speak to your manager about this and feel them out for how supportive they are. Phrase it carefully (in a non antagonistic way) in terms of productivity etc. etc. Ask if there is any occupational health support, occ. health people tend to have very practical solutions that could suit both you and the company.

Thank you for your advice. I work for a big company and I believe that they would do something if I told them how it's affecting me, especially if I had a letter from my doctor.

My manager is very supportive and aware of this issue, however all she can do is to talk to the manager of the noisy department - this didn't prove to be very helpful because their manager didn't really give a hoot.

As far as I'm aware, there is no occupational health support here, which is shocking, considering the size of the company (1000+ employees).

Naturally I will try to look for another job if nothing is done here to improve the situation. I'm really just trying to figure out if there is something that can be done that wouldn't involve leaving a job that I wanted for years, worked very hard to get and that I am really good at.

Thanks again

wexie

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

Thank you for your advice. I work for a big company and I believe that they would do something if I told them how it's affecting me, especially if I had a letter from my doctor.

Sad reality is that some companies would see it as easier to 'encourage you to look for new opportunities elsewhere'

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

My manager is very supportive and aware of this issue, however all she can do is to talk to the manager of the noisy department - this didn't prove to be very helpful because their manager didn't really give a hoot.

Whatever you do try not to loose the support of your manager.

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, there is no occupational health support here, which is shocking, considering the size of the company (1000+ employees).

Shocking but not surprising

Best of luck with it, there's a fair chance I may well know where you are, if that's the case make sure to go for a walk around the lake when you feel the need

Glass fused light

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

My manager is very supportive and aware of this issue, however all she can do is to talk to the manager of the noisy department - this didn't prove to be very helpful because their manager didn't really give a hoot.

The call takers have to be measured by some kind of metric and must be within acceptable targets.
Changing the culture of a group is a massive task and has no direct benefit for that team.
In this situation you are basically having to tell staff members that they can't talk to the people beside them.
Otherwise the manager is hopping up and down when individual chats hit a certain volume. Justifying how the previous conversation Johnny two seats down had was ok but this one is not.
This will have a direct impact on staff as it 'use to be' a fun place to work, with a possible knock on call metrics.

ArrBee

My suggestion would be hearing protection.
You can get earplugs which reduce the dB getting to your ear while not blocking all sound.
They are molded to your ears specifically and are comfortable for prolonged use.
You might even convince your employer to pay for them....

wexie

Glass fused light wrote: »

The call takers have to be measured by some kind of metric and must be within acceptable targets.
Changing the culture of a group is a massive task and has no direct benefit for that team.
In this situation you are basically having to tell staff members that they can't talk to the people beside them.
Otherwise the manager is hopping up and down when individual chats hit a certain volume. Justifying how the previous conversation Johnny two seats down had was ok but this one is not.
This will have a direct impact on staff as it 'use to be' a fun place to work, with a possible knock on call metrics.

I'd imagine the problem isn't the talking and chatting :

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

What I have a problem with is the excessive noise they are making. There are regular outbursts of screaming and roaring laughing.

I'm dealing with very similar issues and can tell you that the constant drone of office noise isn't the issue, it's sudden outbursts of loud noise. I'd imagine it's not dissimilar for the OP.

Gwen Cooper

Glass fused light wrote: »

Your main difficulty is that you only have a right to reasonable accommodation.
Your employer has located your department on this floor.
You state that there has to be dialogue in the group to sucessfully complete tasks.
So for you to work in your role the whole department has to move which has already been vetoed
or reconfigure the work space to work for you.
First thing they will do is noise monitor, and that will not go down well with the noisy staff, so now they have to look out for bullying.
When they finish monitoring the results will be within acceptable levels otherwise every primary school in the country would be slapped with a noise abatement order.
So now they have to decide on what is an acceptable level of noise.
Telling other staff to keep it down means changing the culture of the group (not easy) and risks a bullying accusation.
So that leaves building a sound partition, and that not necessarily just slap up a wall, the whole floor has to meet the reg.
It's easier to offer you an equivalent position on an other floor, you either move or they have offered reasonable accommodation and your terminated on health grounds.


As for the others are they so appalled that they will go on record that they can't do their jobs as a result?

Hi, thanks for your response.

In my opinion, just a little cooperation from the managers would go a long way. The occasional "Guys, can you keep it down" once they start getting loud would go a long way. It worked on the other floors. All it takes is just for the managers to give a damn.

The problem here is that the only responsibility of the people who are on the phones is to deal with the calls. If they don't get the calls, they are free to do whatever, as long as they stay at their desk with the headsets on, ready to take another call. That's the only thing that their managers have to look out for. They don't care about the noise levels between the calls.

In my department we don't get time between calls, we have stuff incoming all the time, there is a queue that we work through and don't really get a break until a scheduled break comes up.

The "phone" managers should realise that their team are not the only team on the floor and that we are all supposed to work towards a friendly environment.

I don't think it would be considered bullying if they just told them to keep the noise down, it's not like they're telling them to shut up.

listermint

wexie wrote: »

Sad reality is that some companies would see it as easier to 'encourage you to look for new opportunities elsewhere'



Whatever you do try not to loose the support of your manager.



Shocking but not surprising

Best of luck with it, there's a fair chance I may well know where you are, if that's the case make sure to go for a walk around the lake when you feel the need

And they would be right, The OP could wear headphones. The OP could request a partition, But the OP has said they wont wear them as they need to communicate with everyone. Mean while everyone is communicating and they dont enjoy their communication "because it looks like they arent busy anyway"

Frankly the OP may not be suited to the role / type of office environment and you cannot reasonably expect to be facilitated for everyone whim.

They have to compromise somewhat Headphones or a partition seem like obvious and frankly reasonable compromises.

Asking an entire call centre floor not to communicate because of 1 person is not. These jobs are tough enough having to deal with irate customers down the line all the time im sure the brief chance to chat with those around you is welcome for the job they have to do. The last thing people need is an administrator sitting down the end who doesnt have to take any of these calls insuring that they cant have chats amongst themselves.


Unreasonable.


Headphones / partition or look for a different environment that more suits your needs.

ELM327

I work in an office and have high functioning asperger's. Noise in the background really irritates me like hearing music from headphones or constant conversation of varying noise levels.

After years of gritting my teeth, bearing it at work, then spending hours at night with the lights off in a dark room to de-stress, I bought some noise cancelling ear muffs. I had noise cancelling headphones but they don't noise cancel fully when not playing music and when I'm really worked up I can't stand listening to music. These cost around £15 on amazon, they are like what people wear when using power tools on a building site. But it works. I can strongly suggest this to the OP.

It's a lot easier to change you than to change a whole floor. After years of surviving in the workforce without understanding why I was so different, the noise cancelling ear muffs really help.

seannash

Bit of an abstract example but we had a person who I managed who hurt his back. We accommodated him with time off, Height adjustable/Standing desk, special chair, Time to do stretching exercises.Brought in an ergonomics expert to help make sure all our workers were sitting correctly.

All of this did not appease or fix the situation. We are out of options but the person is still suffering from a bad back.
Our call centre is noisy, we give them wireless headsets with noise cancelling in them so the agents wouldn't talk so loudly. People still say its noisy.

People laugh, shout and are loud and there's only so much management can do to stifle this despite them wanting to fix it.
You seem completely unwilling to fix it for yourself because you fear missing out on conversations around you (Small point, if you can hear the conversations they are also speaking loudly)
Pop on headphones and have faith in your team that they will tap you on the shoulder when they need you. Perhaps when you jump into a conversation you are doing so uninvited and your input is unwanted.
I understand you have anxiety but maybe this could be a first step to dealing with that.
Just to say that when someone in a group complains about something its a lot easier for the group to say "Oh yeah you're right, rather than say your being unreasonable. Especially if you've divulged your medical condition to them.
I sympathise with you but also I find you very reluctant to change despite wanting the whole office to change around you.

Glass fused light

wexie wrote: »

I'd imagine the problem isn't the talking and chatting :



I'm dealing with very similar issues and can tell you that the constant drone of office noise isn't the issue, it's sudden outbursts of loud noise. I'd imagine it's not dissimilar for the OP.

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

The "phone" managers should realise that their team are not the only team on the floor and that we are all supposed to work towards a friendly environment.

I don't think it would be considered bullying if they just told them to keep the noise down, it's not like they're telling them to shut up.

For the phone team the friendly work environment is a culture of noise and laughter.

As you can imagine no manage wants to be accused of bullying and the accuser pulls a list of days when they were told that it is unacceptable to laugh.

CruelCoin

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

I have been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), with a nice addition of depression and anxiety. I haven't taken any medication for it for about a year now and I was managing quite well with just therapy.

One of my symptoms is sensory overload, specifically it's the noise levels. I get very irritable once it takes off, sometimes I start swearing, I'm shaking, ready to cry, can't breathe, something like a panic attack, with the difference that I can literally feel my brain buzzing during sensory overload. At that point any noise becomes physically painful.

If you suffer from these symptoms in the workplace, then clearly you need the medication, for starters.

As much as the employer should accommodate disabilities, so should you be fit for work.
Asking everyone to alter their behaviour because your experiment with ending your meds isn't working out is unreasonable.

Teyla Emmagan

CruelCoin wrote:

As much as the employer should accommodate disabilities, so should you be fit for work.

You can't medicate for BPD.

OP I sympathise completely. There is a bunch of yelping idiots in my office I would take a machete to if I could get away with it. I find the noise massively aggravating at times. Speak to your manager again, they can find you another desk.

wexie

CruelCoin wrote: »

If you suffer from these symptoms in the workplace, then clearly you need the medication, for starters.

As much as the employer should accommodate disabilities, so should you be fit for work.
Asking everyone to alter their behaviour because your experiment with ending your meds isn't working out is unreasonable.

You're a psychiatrist are you?

CruelCoin

wexie wrote: »

You're a psychiatrist are you?

The OP states she was on meds, and has not been in a year.

She's been in the job for what, 14 years she said in a later post?

To the lay observer it would seem like that coming off the meds coincides with her newfound noise problems.

Also, it's a nonsense argument to make that you need to be an expert to have an opinion.

CruelCoin

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

You can't medicate for BPD.

It was one of the first lines in the OP?

wexie

CruelCoin wrote: »

The OP states she was on meds, and has not been in a year.

As recommended by a medical professional

CruelCoin wrote: »

To the lay observer it would seem like that coming off the meds coincides with her newfound noise problems.

Also, it's a nonsense argument to make that you need to be an expert to have an opinion.

You're absolutely right, but if you feel fit to have an opinion on something you clearly know **** all about don't expect anyone to take it seriously

wexie

CruelCoin wrote: »

It was one of the first lines in the OP?

That's because you can (in some cases) medicate depression.

However a lot of research indicates that if the depression is a symptom of something else underlying, like BPD in this case, it almost never does anything unless the underlying cause is addressed. If anything it hides the underlying cause.

BPD is incredibly complicated and sometimes takes years to diagnose because it tends to be written off as 'just' depression.

Many psychologists won't even treat people with BPD because it's so complex

So in this case it's likely no amount of medication will do anything or 'cure' anything. Unless it would be to a level that OP would be doped out of her tree which is hardly a solution.

Maewyn Succat

Sorry to hijack the thread but I've got similar issues to the OP. The main difference is (without making little of the OP's situation) that I work in a processing plant which is a very noisy environment. It would make most offices sound like libraries.
I wear ear plugs to bring the noise to bring the noise down to a "safe" but to be honest it does little to help my problem. I also work 12 hour shifts with around 8-10 hours spent in the actual processing area.
I'm just wondering if anyone has any other solutions that may help. Would some sort of therapy be effective?
If I could quit I would without a second thought but unfortunately that's not an option at the minute.

Wildcard7

I have a feeling the loud goofing around of the call center people might keep them from going insane in their job. That doesn't change the way it affects you, but it's a good reason for them not wanting to quiet down. If i were you I'd look into noise dampening measures, as others have said. It's really not that much work to put up a partition and some other noise dampening measures. Once you can explain to your higher ups that you can't do your job properley because you can't even hear your colleagues, they should authorize this. If they can't be arsed to implement that most simple of solutions, you can be sure that nothing else will ever be done and either quit or accept it the way it is (changing the calccenter teams behaviour is 10x harder and more expensive than throwing a bit of money at the problem).