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Liege Bastogne Liege 2018

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    #32
    brocbrocach
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭brocbrocach


    harringtonp wrote: »
    No but the whole point is that each year he has progressed. Cycling is not like gymnastics or olympic snowboarding where the top level stars peak at a young age. No matter how good somebody is it takes years to be able to race hard after 250km of road which is undoubtedly why there is a specific U23 category in cycling.

    The real benchmark is how he compares with the other U23 riders who enter these classics.

    Agreed. I genuinely feel he might be able to win a classic one day so I'm judging him to those standards. I'm not expecting him to be in top rank of racers at all yet, but the hyping is stupid and counterproductive.
    He's getting stronger and starting to get a feel for elite racing but there's no evidence that he's progressing in learning how to read a race or trying to hang with better racers. I think it's known for years that he needs to get better at just riding in the bunch.


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    #33
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    brocbrocach wrote: »
    Agreed. I genuinely feel he might be able to win a classic one day so I'm judging him to those standards. I'm not expecting him to be in top rank of racers at all yet, but the hyping is stupid and counterproductive.
    He's getting stronger and starting to get a feel for elite racing but there's no evidence that he's progressing in learning how to read a race or trying to hang with better racers. I think it's known for years that he needs to get better at just riding in the bunch.

    Yes remember the days was in the same races as him and the only time you'd see him was at the start. That characteristic is still strong and will perhaps always to some extent be there. When used at the right times though I'd view it as a positive and Amstel Gold was one of those right times.


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    #34
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,083 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    brocbrocach wrote: »
    He's getting stronger and starting to get a feel for elite racing but there's no evidence that he's progressing in learning how to read a race or trying to hang with better racers. I think it's known for years that he needs to get better at just riding in the bunch.

    Right, but he did smash his head in last year and take a few months off to recover, so his previous fear of riding in the bunch turned out to be completely rational!


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    #35
    brocbrocach
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭brocbrocach


    “There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

    "That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.


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    #36
    Amprodude
    Registered Users Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    brocbrocach wrote: »
    I don't want it to sound like an attack on Dunbar, he's obviously a star. But these articles are way over the top. The breakaway is not bad but it's not where the good riders are.

    The breakaway is exactly where Dunbar needs to be. He is never going to beat the likes of Sagan, Griepel, Cavandish, in a sprint in the peloton but he has plenty of climbing legs to hurt the best on a climb. We even saw that last week at the Amstel race. A bit more development and experience and I think Dunbar will be a future star exceeding that of Dan Martin and Nicholas Roche I feel.


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    #37
    Amprodude
    Registered Users Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    harringtonp wrote: »
    Yes remember the days was in the same races as him and the only time you'd see him was at the start. That characteristic is still strong and will perhaps always to some extent be there. When used at the right times though I'd view it as a positive and Amstel Gold was one of those right times.

    I raced against him in A3 and he always was 7-8 mins up the road nowhere to be seen. He has potential I knew he be a very good future star that would take him as far as a pro career and at 21 he can only better stronger and better at this level. He raced brilliantly in the Amstel for his first go. He was dropped with 18km to go. Not a bad effort at all at this level. Some lads love having a go at Dunbar and saying he not good in bunch but he is still one of best riders this country has produced as of late. He will make it all he needs is time and experience.


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    #38
    Plastik
    Registered Users Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭Plastik


    I hate being in the bunch. It's a terrible pity I'm not strong enough to be anywhere else.


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    #39
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,450 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Has he been on the attack in all races this year? It's Normally Connor Dunne in the races I've seen!


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    #40
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,083 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Amprodude wrote: »
    Some lads love having a go at Dunbar and saying he not good in bunch
    This isn't something that's been made up. I can't find the interview but I'm sure there was one on StickyBottle a couple of years ago where he said he was happier up the road because it was terrifying (or words to that effect).


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    #41
    Amprodude
    Registered Users Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    Lumen wrote: »
    This isn't something that's been made up. I can't find the interview but I'm sure there was one on StickyBottle a couple of years ago where he said he was happier up the road because it was terrifying (or words to that effect).

    We be all happier to be up the road if we were good enough.


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    #42
    brocbrocach
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭brocbrocach


    Seán has made the calculation:
    http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/sean-kelly-eddie-dunbar/


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    #43
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,083 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Amprodude wrote: »
    We be all happier to be up the road if we were good enough.
    That's not how bicycle racing works.


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    #44
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,425 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Lumen wrote:
    This isn't something that's been made up. I can't find the interview but I'm sure there was one on StickyBottle a couple of years ago where he said he was happier up the road because it was terrifying (or words to that effect).


    The King has spoken today and said that he needs to learn how to ride a bunch inorder to progress. More or less said that those that coming the early breaks aren't really up to much.


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    #45
    Raymzor
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭Raymzor


    I think Eddies team will be happy with the exposure he has brought them.

    Anyone else think he should relax his neck a bit!


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    #46
    Amprodude
    Registered Users Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    Lumen wrote: »
    That's not how bicycle racing works.

    Well sometimes up the road can win races if you stay clear from the peloton for long enough.


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    #47
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,083 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Amprodude wrote: »
    Well sometimes up the road can win races if you stay clear from the peloton for long enough.
    I'm sure you know that's not really why riders are in the breaks. They're mostly there so that the rest of the team don't have to waste energy chasing. It's still an important job but difficult to make a career out of it and a waste of talent.


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    #48
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Lumen wrote: »
    I'm sure you know that's not really why riders are in the breaks. They're mostly there so that the rest of the team don't have to waste energy chasing. It's still an important job but difficult to make a career out of it and a waste of talent.

    In a one-day race, yes, but there's always a chance something might happen (such as a crash in the bunch) that might mean a break could stay clear.

    I can't think of one single instance in a classic where this has happened, mind you.


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    #49
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,450 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    1bryan wrote: »
    I can't think of one single instance in a classic where this has happened, mind you.
    Crash or a breakaway rider winning? If the latter, Matt Hayman (and Dillier second this year) in Roubaix from the break.


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    #50
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Crash or a breakaway rider winning? If the latter, Matt Hayman (and Dillier second this year) in Roubaix from the break.

    breakaway rider winning. Good calls.


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    #51
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,083 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Crash or a breakaway rider winning? If the latter, Matt Hayman (and Dillier second this year) in Roubaix from the break.
    I think Hayman's break only formed after two hours of >45kph racing. He was quoted as saying something like his move into that break was the first big effort of the day. So whilst it's an amazing achievement, it doesn't support the contention that you can avoid peloton riding as a pro.

    TV coverage often doesn't start until the early break has formed, so we don't that that much of this part of racing.

    edit: I think this is Greipel's ride from that race. https://www.strava.com/activities/542002786/analysis


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    #52
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,450 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Lumen wrote: »
    So whilst it's an amazing achievement, it doesn't support the contention that you can avoid peloton riding as a pro.
    Ah yeah, just saying it does happen. Happened a few times in Roubaix, but probably Jacky Durand the last non-roubaix monument example (although Pederson 2nd this year)?

    I'd always defer to King Kelly, but I still don't think it did him any harm to show himself in Amstel, and then it appears to have been his plan, and for that reasoning, to just hang on as long as possible in Liege.


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