Downshifting Gears in Car

Brian?

fritzelly wrote: »

Because you are slowing down, if you are not giving it gas why bother changing down a gear if you are not going to be using it? Once I'm down to the speed I want then you change to the appropriate gear
And that is how you should be taught and even just a cursory google shows driving schools recommending this.
Google "gears to go and brakes to slow"

Speed doesn’t decide what gear you’re in, engine RPM does. How would you know the appropriate gear with the clutch in. Any kinda of incline would throw this off

BarleySweets

Brian? wrote: »

No it doesn’t. Not even a tiny bit. Why would you ever need to have a car in first gear to stop?

Block shifting makes no sense to me at all.

EDIT: I presume he means: slow down from 60-0 in one go, changing to 1 right as you slow to a stop, ready to start off again when the light changes to green.

There’s tons of other situations where block shifting is preferable though. Thousands of houses face onto national primary and secondary roads. What would you prefer homeowners to do: hold up traffic unduly by slowing down at a slower rate that allows them to downshift sequentially or keep traffic moving at the speed the road can handle by braking at the correct distance from their turn and block shift?

Brian?

BarleySweets wrote: »

Thousands of houses face onto national primary and secondary roads. What would you prefer homeowners to do: hold up traffic unduly by slowing down at a slower rate that allows them to downshift sequentially or keep traffic moving at the speed the road can handle by braking at the correct distance from their turn and block shift?

It doesn’t take longer to slow down. If you use engine braking and brakes together.

Unless you’re advocating slamming on the breaks and block shifting. Which is what I’ve done in an emergency stop.

Brian?

BarleySweets wrote: »

EDIT: I presume he means: slow down from 60-0 in one go, changing to 1 right as you slow to a stop, ready to start off again when the light changes to green.

That’s not block shifting. That’s cruising to a stop.

fritzelly

Brian? wrote: »

Speed doesn’t decide what gear you’re in, engine RPM does. How would you know the appropriate gear with the clutch in. Any kinda of incline would throw this off

You didn't read what I said and you are arguing a method that is not even recommended by driving instructors/schools/advanced driving etc

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/when-to-change-gear.html
Many many more examples online

saccades

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

No you can’t go from fifth to second in your test.its bad practice. If you see a turn coming up that may need second gear you should go down through the gears and use engine breaking properly and on time. If you go fifth to second it shows you were unprepared and it’s bad practice. If the car isn’t slowed down enough to engage second your going to rev the boll1x off it too and in poor conditions could lead to an accident.its lazy driving.
Do things right the first time.best of luck in your test

This is for the UK but my driving instructor used me (as I was nearly ready for my test), as a test student for her own assesment.

I went directly from 4th to 2nd for a 90 degree bend off a 30mph zone and my driving instructor pulled me up on it stating I should go down through the gears sequencially (so).

At the end of my lesson/instructors assessment the assessor was complimentary but stated that the down through the gears approach had been superseded as modern engines are well able to cope with the wider rev change and the test was to ensure that the driver is in control of the car not their ability to follow rules blindly. Gear changes should be as appropriate for the situation.

BarleySweets

Brian? wrote: »

It doesn’t take longer to slow down. If you use engine braking and brakes together.

The current driving instructor and tester guidelines disagree with you there.

Unless you’re advocating slamming on the breaks and block shifting. Which is what I’ve done in an emergency stop.

No, I’m obviously not advocating slamming on your brakes.

I’m slightly concerned that your account is marked as a moderator, are you a mod of this forum? Do you realize what posting like this on your moderator account can do? Learner drivers rely on the posts here for guidance and recommendations and sarcasm like yours will result in some learners recieving faults in their test because they are likely to put trust in a post written by somebody who’s account is listed a a Boards moderator.

Brian?

fritzelly wrote: »

You didn't read what I said and you are arguing a method that is not even recommended by driving instructors/schools/advanced driving etc

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/when-to-change-gear.html
Many many more examples online

That guide is nonsense. All he does is talk abou speeds. Speeds don’t determine what gear you choose. RPM does.

I’m going to duck out of the thread now. The OP needs to do whatever will get them to pass the test. I suggest the OP consults a driving school. Clearly my info is out of date.

Brian?

BarleySweets wrote: »

The current driving instructor and tester guidelines disagree with you there.



No, I’m obviously not advocating slamming on your brakes.

I’m slightly concerned that your account is marked as a moderator, are you a mod of this forum? Do you realize what posting like this on your moderator account can do? Learner drivers rely on the posts here for guidance and recommendations and sarcasm like yours will result in some learners recieving faults in their test because they are likely to put trust in a post written by somebody who’s account is listed a a Boards moderator.

I am not a mod of this forum and I wasn’t sarcastic in any way. Anyway, as I said. I’m out.

Sand

I find these threads frustrating in that you find a lot of people arguing about common driving situations, reflecting their own bias, how they were trained (40+ years ago), and the stuff they simply get away with day to day (i.e. "experience"). There is no actual neutral and publicly available source someone can refer to for the definition of what is correct/necessary, but learners will be tested against it as if everyone should know it.

OP - Good testers are looking for safe drivers, who can be trusted to drive independently of direct supervision without becoming an obstruction through nerves. They are not looking for rally drivers. If you are approaching a corner in 5th gear and you need to drop to 2nd to take it in a single action, you are likely doing something very wrong. You have to progress, but you do not get bonus points for setting a record time on the lap.

fritzelly

Sand wrote: »

I find these threads frustrating in that you find a lot of people arguing about common driving situations, reflecting their own bias, how they were trained (40+ years ago), and the stuff they simply get away with day to day (i.e. "experience"). There is no actual neutral and publicly available source someone can refer to for the definition of what is correct/necessary, but learners will be tested against it as if everyone should know it.

OP - Good testers are looking for safe drivers, who can be trusted to drive independently of direct supervision without becoming an obstruction through nerves. They are not looking for rally drivers. If you are approaching a corner in 5th gear and you need to drop to 2nd to take it in a single action, you are likely doing something very wrong. You have to progress, but you do not get bonus points for setting a record time on the lap.

http://www.drivewithtemple.com/TestTips.aspx

Every single driving school website says the same thing about block changing so if it wasn't totally normal and acceptable they would be a lot of people failing their test

Sand

fritzelly wrote: »

http://www.drivewithtemple.com/TestTips.aspx

Every single driving school website says the same thing about block changing so if it wasn't totally normal and acceptable they would be a lot of people failing their test

What website do the testers refer to? And there is a lot of people failing their test. Pass rates in the mid 40s in some test sites, amongst people whose instructors have presumably encouraged them to apply.

fritzelly

Sand wrote: »

What website do the testers refer to? And there is a lot of people failing their test. Pass rates in the mid 40s in some test sites, amongst people whose instructors have presumably encouraged them to apply.

Unsurprisingly they don't say you can get a fault for doing it
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/ADI/Information%20Pack/DrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf

Sand

fritzelly wrote: »

Unsurprisingly they don't say you can get a fault for doing it
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/ADI/Information%20Pack/DrivingFault_Marking_Guides.pdf

That is a very useful document, and I think it should be the first port of call for questions about test marking. My complaint is that often the first port of call in response to a query is conflicting opinions, which highlights the problem.

However, I don't see that it directly addresses the OPs question? Where are you seeing that they rule out a fault for block changing? I certainly happily block change, and it wasn't an issue but again that is just my opinion/experience. I cant say for certainty the RSA agree.

fritzelly

Sand wrote: »

That is a very useful document, and I think it should be the first port of call for questions about test marking. My complaint is that often the first port of call in response to a query is conflicting opinions, which highlights the problem.

However, I don't see that it directly addresses the OPs question? Where are you seeing that they rule out a fault for block changing? I certainly happily block change, and it wasn't an issue but again that is just my opinion/experience. I cant say for certainty the RSA agree.

If you could be faulted for it surely it would say so in the guidelines for marking a test.
The closest thing would be staying in the wrong gear for you speed and as I remember all those years ago that was a fault for too low a gear for your speed and revving the engine like crazy

cantdecide

BarleySweets wrote: »

If you did that in a test in 2018 you’d fail. Block shifting is the modern way.

The last thing I have to offer on this thread is this: I have no doubt that things can change and rules can be relaxed and I'm happy to eat crow if block shifting is acceptable these day when it wasn't when I passed my car test years ago. Skipping from 4th to 2nd makes sense in lots of circumstances. However, I'll eat my hat if all else being equal you would "fail" the test for downshifting through each gear. Fail because you do it wrong I can see but summarily failed for it? I say 'nah'.

OP: clarify with your instructor.

I'm out too.

fritzelly wrote: »

No one was saying you can't downshift, just saying you don't need to

Edit: looks at the quote I posted - "you will fail if you downshift sequentially - you MUST block shift"

fritzelly

cantdecide wrote: »

The last thing I have to offer on this thread is this: I have no doubt that things can change and rules can be relaxed and I'm happy to eat crow if block shifting is acceptable these day when it wasn't when I passed my car test years ago. Skipping from 4th to 2nd makes sense in lots of circumstances. However, I'll eat my hat if all else being equal you would "fail" the test for downshifting through each gear.

I'm out too.

No one was saying you can't downshift, just saying you don't need to

Sand

fritzelly wrote: »

If you could be faulted for it surely it would say so in the guidelines for marking a test.
The closest thing would be staying in the wrong gear for you speed and as I remember all those years ago that was a fault for too low a gear for your speed and revving the engine like crazy

I wouldn't say so, they give examples, but it doesn't claim to be a complete or exhaustive list.

We ultimately end up with opinions* and myths. There was a thread a few weeks ago about something basic like do I need to put on my indicator when reversing around the corner? Big discussion about that. Experienced drivers swore to me you should/must. But in the test I didn't, no issues. There was nothing I could refer to and trust as being the RSA view: just opinions and trying to divine good advice from the bad. Pick one and hope for the best. I do think the document you linked is excellent and helpful, it should be the starting point like I said.

*My opinion is you are totally correct. There is absolutely no issue, in theory, in dropping from 5th gear to 2nd gear so long as you don't coast, and you are not braking harshly/dramatically. In practise though I don't see how you meet both conditions simultaneously. I would think that if you are approaching a corner you need to take in 2nd gear, and you are in 5th and need to drop in a single action, you were not reading the road. That is just my opinion though.

Alanstrainor

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I would think that changing from 5th to 2nd would be looked down on, and might result in a fault for gears. I would agree with what others have said and say that you should shift from 5th->4th and then to 2nd. That being said, in a non-test scenario I would block change from 5th to 2nd without question.

All this being said, is there a particular road you have in mind OP? It all depends on the centre and route, but if it is more urban/suburban then there might not be a need to use 5th at all. And I would also echo what others have said with regard to 2nd gear and corners. It is not a hard and fast rule, there are some corners that may not need 2nd at all, it all depends really. The mantra is to use the correct gear for the situation you find yourself in. Some turns are so tight you might use 1st, others could be longer and be fine in 3rd.

This man knows.

5th to 4th then 2nd

fritzelly

Sand wrote: »

*My opinion is you are totally correct. There is absolutely no issue, in theory, in dropping from 5th gear to 2nd gear so long as you don't coast, and you are not braking harshly/dramatically. In practise though I don't see how you meet both conditions simultaneously. I would think that if you are approaching a corner you need to take in 2nd gear, and you are in 5th and need to drop in a single action, you were not reading the road. That is just my opinion though.

Every situation is different, if I was approaching a corner I may drop from 5th (80kmh) to 3rd with the natural slowing of the car, down to 2 to take the corner and on my merry way
But as always you have to take account of other traffic, giving them signs of your intentions etc.
Coming off a motorway to a slip road I certainly wouldn't be going down the gears one by one.

Dravokivich

There's no hard rule for what gear you are in when turning. The main things to be aware of is that you are in control of the car, not lugging the engine or not using too much revs.

There's areas I drive around where coming from a yield or stop to make a turn I'll stay in first.

Henry Ford III

Drive in the most appropriate gear at all times.

Nothing garish, and no dayglo tank tops.

J_R

dyerario8 wrote: »

Hi guys

I just have a question about slowing down/ downshifting gears in a car. I'm close to my test date and I'm just a bit unsure

Say you're driving in 5th gear and there is a corner in the distance that you need to turn. I understand that for the driving test in Ireland they would like to see you turn corner in 2nd gear.

Is it allowed for you to change down from 5th to 2nd gear in one go (e.g. break until you slow down a bit and keep foot in on clutch while you change from 5-4-3-2)? Is this the correct way to do it in a test or is there another method? In my head it does not make sense to keep taking foot off the clutch after each gear change because that would mean you would put foot back on gas...this will maintain your speed rather than slowing down?

Please let me know what is correct method for the test!

Hi,

Assuming it is a 2nd gear corner and you are in 5th gear. (Or 6th).

Check your mirrors,
Brake,
Depress clutch before car would begin to labour.
When you reach appropriate speed for the gear you need, in this case 2nd, go direct from 5th (or 6th) to 2nd.
Remove foot from clutch pedal
Take the corner.

If done correctly you will not be marked.

If you go sequentially down through the gears, again if done correctly you will not receive a mark.

But why make unnecessary gear changes.

Block gear changing is more fuel efficient, less wear and tear on the car, simpler and safer

vs40

When braking you can skip down gears as going through each individual gear would cause you to slow quicker. The best thing to do is

1. Stay away from 5th its too high for 30mph in any car keep in 4th.
2. When approaching a bend slow down in 4th as the engine revs drop low then change to 2nd.

if you were to work your way down the gears you would take more time slowing and this is not progressive.

The opposite is said when accelerating. Never skip going up the gears jumping from 2nd to 4th will bog the engine down and thus make the car accelerate slower and hinder your progression.

When accelerating and decelerating it is all about progression you don't want to accelerate to slowly and you don't want to slow down too slowly.