Lanzarote (ACE) an interesting airport

Mebuntu

Lanzarote is somewhat unusual.

All arrivals without exception are met by a follow-me vehicle and escorted to their stands. Even the local Binter ATR’s have to follow this procedure although, allegedly, they are only affected by this during current construction works.

The wind seems to be perpetually from anywhere between WSW and WNW so all landings are crosswind

There appears to be no designated runway for takeoffs and pilots appear to have discretion to use either 03 or 21. Consequently, you often see two aircraft exiting the ramp – one turns right for 03 and the other turns left for 21. I’ve also seen an aircraft holding short of 03 and then change their minds, taxi onto runway, exit at the next taxiway and head for 21 becoming No. 4 for takeoff from being No.1.

If a jet is landing on 03 and a departure is going to take 21 the departure has to enter a circular hold-short area to the West of the parallel taxi in case the landing jet misses the penultimate exit which does happen often.

Hopefully, the attached photo explains this better with the follow-me vehicle in the middle of it all.

JCX BXC

The wind today is unusual, a Westerly wind is very rare occuring only a handful of times each year. The wind is predominantly northerly and second most commonly easterly and RWY03 is used in excess of 90% of the time (read that somewhere before, I'll try to find it and link it).

Lanzarote has rain today, which occurs on average 1 day every April.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

tb66

There is a good live webcam feed for ACE if anyone wants to see this in action..https://worldcams.tv/transport/lanzarote-airport

Bussywussy

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Why the need for the follow me vehicle for all traffic?

I also wonder why US based aircraft get an escort around a corner in Dublin to the 405-408 stands....surely they use more complicated places in the states.

JCX BXC

antob wrote: »

There is a good live webcam feed for ACE if anyone wants to see this in action..https://worldcams.tv/transport/lanzarote-airport

One can also look it up on YouTube

iPhone.

JCX BXC wrote: »

One can also look it up on YouTube

Surely more than one person can look it up?:P

Fred Swanson

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EchoIndia

Bussywussy wrote: »

I also wonder why US based aircraft get an escort around a corner in Dublin to the 405-408 stands....surely they use more complicated places in the states.

Dublin provides a "follow me" on occasion for flights which are not regulars into the airport, especially if it is a large aircraft. However for the situation you describe it may be on account of limited wingtip clearance, something that has led to a number of incidents in the past, though involving a based operator and not at that part of the airfield.

Jamie2k9

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Palma or it used to be the case many years ago. Caused lots of delays.

Bussywussy

EchoIndia wrote: »

Bussywussy wrote: »

I also wonder why US based aircraft get an escort around a corner in Dublin to the 405-408 stands....surely they use more complicated places in the states.

Dublin provides a "follow me" on occasion for flights which are not regulars into the airport, especially if it is a large aircraft. However for the situation you describe it may be on account of limited wingtip clearance, something that has led to a number of incidents in the past, though involving a based operator and not at that part of the airfield.

I understand that but it's a bit mad for the regular US carrier flights United,Delta etc.

EchoIndia

Bussywussy wrote: »

I understand that but it's a bit mad for the regular US carrier flights United,Delta etc.

Well, presumably someone whose job it is to assess such things did not consider it mad.

IngazZagni

I understand that but it's a bit mad for the regular US carrier flights United,Delta etc.

While the airline might be a regular, the pilots may not be. They might only land in Dublin once a year although I guess the same could be true for Ryanair even.

bkehoe

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Many Eastern European airports still require this when refuelling with passengers disembarking or boarding. Can delay boarding if there's not enough fire trucks to supervise aircraft at busy times!

As for ACE, many operators will have 15kts tailwind approval for landing on RWY 03 which is an ILS. For takeoff, performance will be the limiting factor as many of the flights are heavy with fuel. Any hint of a tailwind can make a takeoff from 03 impossible depending on how heavy an aircraft is. Landing on RWY21 is challenging due to the approach passing over the hills and requires relatively clear skies and good visibility to even attempt it and pilots/ATC avoid it when possible. When 03 is the active runway ATC will accommodate traffic that requires 21 for departure as best as they can but often that traffic will have to incur a significant delay for a gap in the arrival traffic to be created.

As for follow-me cars in southern Europe, they seemed to breed like rabbits during the recession...In some airports like FAO they just wait at the parking stand one has already found their way to, and drive forward 50 meters...Jobs for everyone? :D

Locker10a

Bussywussy wrote: »

EchoIndia wrote: »

Bussywussy wrote: »

I also wonder why US based aircraft get an escort around a corner in Dublin to the 405-408 stands....surely they use more complicated places in the states.

Dublin provides a "follow me" on occasion for flights which are not regulars into the airport, especially if it is a large aircraft. However for the situation you describe it may be on account of limited wingtip clearance, something that has led to a number of incidents in the past, though involving a based operator and not at that part of the airfield.

I understand that but it's a bit mad for the regular US carrier flights United,Delta etc.

Lol well it doesn’t surprise me if the US carriers involved !!

Tenger

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Another odd thing is that at Bucharest Otopeni the fire service attends all refuelings. Not seen that anywhere else.

Thats very old fashioned. I believe that happened for refueling during boarding in Western European airports in the 70's and 80's.

Locker10a

Tenger wrote: »

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Another odd thing is that at Bucharest Otopeni the fire service attends all refuelings. Not seen that anywhere else.

Thats very old fashioned. I believe that happened for refueling during boarding in Western European airports in the 70's and 80's.

I’ve been a few places that do this, Greece do it too I believe

alane20

Fred Swanson wrote:

Another odd thing is that at Bucharest Otopeni the fire service attends all refuelings. Not seen that anywhere else.

Just back from modlin airport in warsaw I saw the same thing there, a single fire unit behind the aircraft at refulling

coylemj

alane20 wrote: »

Just back from modlin airport in warsaw I saw the same thing there, a single fire unit behind the aircraft at refulling

Could these extra safety features be a throwback to the communist days when everyone had to have a job so sometimes (as in Russian bookshops) specific procedures involved a lot more people than would be the case in western (non-communist) countries?

Or is it a precaution based on incidents in the days communist countries could only afford to run Russian rustbucket planes which were prone to spontaneous combustion?

Locker10a

coylemj wrote: »

alane20 wrote: »

Just back from modlin airport in warsaw I saw the same thing there, a single fire unit behind the aircraft at refulling

Could these extra safety features be a throwback to the communist days when everyone had to have a job so sometimes (as in Russian bookshops) specific procedures involved a lot more people than would be the case in western (non-communist) countries?

Or is it a precaution based on incidents in the days communist countries could only afford to run Russian rustbucket planes which were prone to spontaneous combustion?

Tbh, I’d say it’s less about communism and more about being old regulations from when all things Aviation were less safe and higher risk as in years gone by. We have come a very long way in Aviation safety and in most cases lessons were learned the hard way.

Bussywussy

I think the fire service at DUB attend the refuelling of the Ethiopian aircraft that just stops for fuel on the west apron, that's understandable with pax on board though.

Lustrum

In my base we have someone from airfield Ops supervising every refuelling, boarding or not. We don't know why, dispatch don't know why, but they stand there with their clipboard looking serious so nobody has gone out to ask them!!

We also get a follow me car all the time in Cologne and Malpensa that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are a few more aswell. It's completely different to Amsterdam where you land on 18R, it's an automatic changeover to ground, and quite often the only instruction you get is "taxi to stand whatever...cross 18C at W5" and that's it, you find your own way there!!

Irish Steve

Been a while since I was working on the Dublin ramp, but back then, Pre US clearance and with Shannon still in the mix, if there were passengers on board, which was often the case with the American flights that operated via Shannon in one direction, there had to be flight crew in the cockpit and a headset man connected to the flight deck for the duration of the fuelling. Didn't usually take too long if they were going to Shannon, as they tended to only take enough to get them down to Shannon, and then put the trip fuel on there, but it was a regular enough requirement to be a nuisance, even more so if they'd come from Shannon, and were taking fuel for the Atlantic crossing, as it meant that the crew dealing with the flight was a man down for the duration of the fuelling, which for a wide body going to Atlanta meant at least 2 tankers worth of fuel.

Even worse was a charter flight that ran for a number of weeks one summer, a 767 that came in from Manchester, and went out to Cape Town, it had to be loaded and fuelled and out in 45 minutes, if it wasn't there were huge problems as the crew were then out of hours. Fortunately, there were never any passengers or bags to come off, we'd never have been able to do that in the time available.

Mebuntu

The Lanzarote webcam has been taken down by the Spanish Airport Authorities!

highlydebased

alane20 wrote:

Just back from modlin airport in warsaw I saw the same thing there, a single fire unit behind the aircraft at refulling

I've also seen it at Warsaw Chopin

donkey balls

From memory at Dub during refueling operations with pax either boarding or on board a member of the flight crew must be on the flight deck while the other crew member is either on the headset or within the vicinity, I think if there is a wheel chair pax on board the fire trucks are called out during the refueling.
Also in ACE they use 2 lads to refuel compared to just 1 more or less every where else.

Mebuntu

bkehoe wrote: »

As for ACE, many operators will have 15kts tailwind approval for landing on RWY 03 which is an ILS. For takeoff, performance will be the limiting factor as many of the flights are heavy with fuel. Any hint of a tailwind can make a takeoff from 03 impossible depending on how heavy an aircraft is. Landing on RWY21 is challenging due to the approach passing over the hills and requires relatively clear skies and good visibility to even attempt it and pilots/ATC avoid it when possible. When 03 is the active runway ATC will accommodate traffic that requires 21 for departure as best as they can but often that traffic will have to incur a significant delay for a gap in the arrival traffic to be created.

I just had a look at the Webcam youtube site. Everything was landing/departing on 03 except one Thomas Cook A320 bound for STN decided to depart off 21. The weather report posted about 5 mins before his departure showed Wind from the North at 16kts. I'm curious to know what factors would have influenced them to do the opposite of everything else and take off with a 16kt tailwind?

bkehoe

The actual tower reported wind may not have been such a significant tailwind component.

I ran some numbers for the 737; a 10kt tailwind on 21 has about 1 tonne higher RTOW (the performance limited weight) than a calm wind for 03.

In zero wind (or direct crosswind), a departure from 21 allows almost 6 tonnes more payload (which could be fuel - over 2 hours worth, passengers - around 70, bags, etc).

Mebuntu

Thanks. Very interesting and that immediately prompts the obvious next question!

When any hint of a tailwind makes 03 takeoffs impossible for an aircraft heavy with fuel why is it not the same for 21. What are the factors that make them different. To the casual observer it's just the same strip going the other way

vicwatson

Mebuntu wrote: »

The Lanzarote webcam has been taken down by the Spanish Airport Authorities!

Back working as was just looking at it

Mebuntu

vicwatson wrote: »

Back working as was just looking at it

It's been back for weeks. In fact, they now have a second webcam at the 03 end.