Why I stopped going to matches in Aviva?

Tim Robbins

atticu wrote: »

Other people believe in different core values of rugby ... talking about anything but rugby, etc..

That's an interesting core value there

Tim Robbins

atticu wrote: »

No one makes it a frustrating experience for you- you choose to be frustrated.

OK so you are telling me if if there's a line break and someone stands in front of me to get their next round - that's my choice to get frustrated?

What are my paying for here? To see a match or someone nudge me and block my view and enjoyment of the match.

prawnsambo

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'll be honest, if I go to the stadium to watch the game it is because I want to partake in the experience as part of an "event" and enjoy the atmosphere. It is not cause I want the best possible view of what is happening. I generally speaking don't get out of my seat during a match (though I certainly have done at times) however people going past me has genuinely never bothered me. They block my view for about one second - it can be mildly irritating for that one second but I fairly quickly get over it.

Likewise. Don't think I've ever been annoyed about it. It's certainly not a memory I've taken away from any match I've been at.

joseywhales

Strictly speaking ,and I've done it myself, people do techinically binge drink at games, lots of people consume 3 or more pints per hour. It is a bit silly considering the effort/money and importance of an event such as a cup final or a six nation's winning game etc. You'd think we could stop for 80 minutes and enjoy the game. Not a great culture to raise kids into either. It's totally not healthy.

I'd be happy enough to have a pint before and after or as my dad would do, you can bring a spot of whiskey, no getting up and no piss breaks.

theyoungchap

I also feel, without the people who are just there for a bit of craic and an evening out
1. The atmosphere would not be a patch on what it generally is (I doubt the OP is a guy whose up screaming his guts out at a line break)
2. We would not have the world-class players coming here, or our own staying here, because we could not afford them.
3. The crowd would be significantly diminished if you had to show your "core value" card at the turnstile.

So basically what I am saying, is that without the riff-raff/ole ole brigade/beer swilling work-talking chaps (which follow every sport, Tim old chap) - professional rugby would be completely unsustainable and you'd get your dream, i.e. 5-6k fully engaged supporters at a match in Donnybrook.

It is a vicious circle, but you can't have it all your own way. Be careful what you wish for. As I said above, buy a seat in the middle, front row ideally, and get down off your high-horse.

P.Walnuts

Just in case anyone wants to pin the blame on anyone for this abominable thread, I'm your man.

Throw away comment in the match thread seemingly had sparked an outrage that may well threaten the professional game of rugby as we know it.

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I was hoping there was a few people who might feel the same way and maybe a few influential people in supporters clubs could take it board and actually do something. I would say if we reminded people about the core values of rugby: respect. Respect the kickers, respect the people around you etc. and to consider educating the stewards a bit more to not allow people back until the ball has gone dead. I have been at gigs where you are not allowed out for pints in the middle of a song only between the gaps.

I think the payback here is that going to a Rugby match could end up being an unbelievable experience. Rather than a frustrating one.

If you feel so strong about this then have you thought about contacting the supporters clubs?
Respect is key but people are perfectly entitled to go for a drink or drinks during the game. Stopping people going for drinks until the ball is out of play is a waste of time and resources. Unless people are acting abusive through having a few drinks i have no problem with them leaving their seats. And stewards dont either.
For majority of people attending games is in no way a frustrating experience. The numbers of people queuing at the bars/stalls at games back that up.

irishbucsfan

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Just in case anyone wants to pin the blame on anyone for this abominable thread, I'm your man.

Throw away comment in the match thread seemingly had sparked an outrage that may well threaten the professional game of rugby as we know it.

He really is a sh*t

scott1974

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Just in case anyone wants to pin the blame on anyone for this abominable thread, I'm your man.

Throw away comment in the match thread seemingly had sparked an outrage that may well threaten the professional game of rugby as we know it.

I hope you're proud of yourself now.... ;-)

Yeah_Right

I can only think of two occasions where I've had an issue with other fans. One was Ireland v France a few years ago. Me, my gf and another couple went to match for a romantic Valentine's night. Our tickets were the very front row (on the aisle). We got to our seats during the anthems and three people were sitting in them. They tried to argue the point that we were late and they shouldn't have to move. They quickly told to **** off.

The other was at a Leinster match. Some fans (probably some of the guys on here ðŸ˜႒) singing some awful songs. Just so bad.

atticu

Tim Robbins wrote: »

OK so you are telling me if if there's a line break and someone stands in front of me to get their next round - that's my choice to get frustrated?

What are my paying for here? To see a match or someone nudge me and block my view and enjoyment of the match.

I am saying that no one can ‘make’ you feel anything.

atticu

molloyjh wrote: »

The person getting up and down can choose when they do so. They can choose to do it at a time that minimises the disruption on others. If they choose not to do that then they should accept the consequences. Not blame others for reacting to their own lack of consideration. The idea you're posting above is just a case of passing the buck.

What are these consequences that should be accepted?

I am not blaming anyone for anything, but if you choose to react, that is a choice that you make, not anyone else.

The Lost Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I love rugby and I love beer. Combining the two is a perfect day for me. I don't really enjoy watching matches in a stadium. I prefer watching them on tv as I can see the action better. I'd rather go to a pub than a stadium.

If I do go to a match it is a social occasion for me. I will try to get an aisle seat to make it easier if I want a beer or a puss. I think having sellers walking the aisles or taking orders via a phone ap might help but then again there would be people complaining about having to pass beers to their neighbours.

One of the problems is the Irish obsession with buying rounds. I would get to my seat with enough beer to last me well into the second half and my mates would be "thanks I'll get the next round". At first I tried to say get your own but then you start to look stingey.

You can in the Aviva use the RapidQ system and use app to order drinks and you get them quicker than the normal queue but feck all do that.

molloyjh wrote: »

The person getting up and down can choose when they do so. They can choose to do it at a time that minimises the disruption on others. If they choose not to do that then they should accept the consequences. Not blame others for reacting to their own lack of consideration. The idea you're posting above is just a case of passing the buck.

Yes but there is only so few times that people will think to do that and nothing can be done to change that bar closing the bars/stopping drink being brought to seats at all

Tim Robbins wrote: »

OK so you are telling me if if there's a line break and someone stands in front of me to get their next round - that's my choice to get frustrated?

What are my paying for here? To see a match or someone nudge me and block my view and enjoyment of the match.

Yeah. If you get frustrated thats on you. Everyone who purchases a ticket is entitled to use the facilities of the stadium as they desire and as long as no stadium regulations are broken then if you are getting frustrated about someone doing that then of course its on you.
You are paying to watch a game but its not only you at a game and others have the right to leave to go to toilet/go for food/drink. Yes they may obstruct your view of the game for a few seconds but thats it. Try look for better seats or watch games on tv if you are going to get upset by people who are using facilities of the ground and not being abusive/breaking regulations of stadium..

Tim Robbins

atticu wrote: »

I am saying that no one can ‘make’ you feel anything.

So if you gave me a hug and then made me feel fuzzy would you say you made me feel fuzzy or would you say I chose to feel fuzzy?

BeardySi

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So if you gave me a hug and then made me feel fuzzy would you say you made me feel fuzzy or would you say I chose to feel fuzzy?

I'm choosing to feel that this thread has gone from ridiculous to farcical at this point...

Tim Robbins

BeardySi wrote: »

I'm choosing to feel that this thread has gone from ridiculous to farcical at this point...

Well if the thread is going to get moved, I'd appreciate if that was done during a break in play.

Steve

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So if you gave me a hug and then made me feel fuzzy would you say you made me feel fuzzy or would you say I chose to feel fuzzy?

My sister-in-law is a professor of psychology and has completed a lot of research on levels of fuzzy, she would genuinely like to study you if you are agreeable?

Tim Robbins

Steve wrote: »

My sister-in-law is a professor of psychology and has completed a lot of research on levels of fuzzy, she would genuinely like to study you if you are agreeable?

I've happily married thanks.

Benedict XVI

theyoungchap wrote: »

I also feel, without the people who are just there for a bit of craic and an evening out
1. The atmosphere would not be a patch on what it generally is (I doubt the OP is a guy whose up screaming his guts out at a line break)
2. We would not have the world-class players coming here, or our own staying here, because we could not afford them.
3. The crowd would be significantly diminished if you had to show your "core value" card at the turnstile.

So basically what I am saying, is that without the riff-raff/ole ole brigade/beer swilling work-talking chaps (which follow every sport, Tim old chap) - professional rugby would be completely unsustainable and you'd get your dream, i.e. 5-6k fully engaged supporters at a match in Donnybrook.

It is a vicious circle, but you can't have it all your own way. Be careful what you wish for. As I said above, buy a seat in the middle, front row ideally, and get down off your high-horse.

I'm not sure if this post is toung in cheek or not, but are you saying that professional rugby in this country is only surviving because people are allowed to drink in their seats at games ?

And that if that privilage was taken away the whole thing would implode .?

theyoungchap

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I'm not sure if this post is toung in cheek or not, but are you saying that professional rugby in this country is only surviving because people are allowed to drink in their seats at games ?

And that if that privilage was taken away the whole thing would implode .?

Not tongue in cheek at all. But there were thousands of people at Leinster / Munster / Ulster games who go because it is a social event as much as it is a sporting event.

Same as every professional sport, there are die-hards and those who go along for the entertainment. I never mentioned it being only "drinking in the seat" like you say. But take the entertainment provided by 50k fans out of it, and replace that with 5k jolly-old-chaps, and you would have an unsustainable game.

slingerz

theyoungchap wrote: »

Not tongue in cheek at all. But there were thousands of people at Leinster / Munster / Ulster games who go because it is a social event as much as it is a sporting event.

Same as every professional sport, there are die-hards and those who go along for the entertainment. I never mentioned it being only "drinking in the seat" like you say. But take the entertainment provided by 50k fans out of it, and replace that with 5k jolly-old-chaps, and you would have an unsustainable game.

the bit in bold is the key point. In Thomond the fact that theres a lot of terracing makes it easier to take no notice of people drinking and going in and out for beer.

Its part and parcel of events that people around you will want to move for various reasons. if that bothers you get a tv subscription cos its never going to change i'm afraid

Benedict XVI

theyoungchap wrote: »

Not tongue in cheek at all. But there were thousands of people at Leinster / Munster / Ulster games who go because it is a social event as much as it is a sporting event.

Same as every professional sport, there are die-hards and those who go along for the entertainment. I never mentioned it being only "drinking in the seat" like you say. But take the entertainment provided by 50k fans out of it, and replace that with 5k jolly-old-chaps, and you would have an unsustainable game.

I hear what you are saying about it being an social event, but the thread is about being disturbed by people going up and down to get drink during the game.

Is the ability to consume , at ones seat, a limited selection of over priced drinks, served in a plastic glass that integeral to the social event that it would have a huge negitave impact on the professional games sustanability ?

If that is the case then Irish people are worse event junkies than I thought.

Tim Robbins

theyoungchap wrote: »

Not tongue in cheek at all. But there were thousands of people at Leinster / Munster / Ulster games who go because it is a social event as much as it is a sporting event.

I agree with that and it is important that everyone is made feel welcome. You don't have to know every law, then people like me don't feel important.

I think the vibe here is to find a compromise. The best way I think to do that is that on the way back in after the pints, the stewards make people wait until there is a break in play before allowing people to run down to their seat. The O2 doe this for various gigs. If that doesn't work, then ask people in match programs and ask the supporter clubs on how best to communicate the message. If that doesn't work the close the bar when the anthems are about to start and re-open at half time.

Podge_irl

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I agree with that and it is important that everyone is made feel welcome. You don't have to know every law, then people like me don't feel important.

I think the vibe here is to find a compromise. The best way I think to do that is that on the way back in after the pints, the stewards make people wait until there is a break in play before allowing people to run down to their seat. The O2 doe this for various gigs. If that doesn't work, then ask people in match programs and ask the supporter clubs on how best to communicate the message. If that doesn't work the close the bar when the anthems are about to start and re-open at half time.

You're assuming the majority of people would want that outcome. It's a fairly drastic escalation from asking people to be considerate to shutting down the bars. I don't think either a majority of fans or the stadium itself are going to want that to be honest, so its a flight of fancy. I should add, it is also not remotely an act of compromise from you - its trying to get what you want by ever increasingly persuasive means.

Nekarsulm

I stopped going to Landsdown Road back in about 2001. Kids were born and it got harder to get away .
Got harder to get pairs of tickets since I quit playing myself also.
Also since I quit attending, the performance of the national team improved greatly, and it would be selfish to break their run of great wins ....

atticu

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So if you gave me a hug and then made me feel fuzzy would you say you made me feel fuzzy or would you say I chose to feel fuzzy?

I think that you know the answer, but for some reason are trying to claim that you don’t.
Maybe you are looking for someone to blame for how you choose to feel, maybe there is another reason, but only you can answer that.

Tim Robbins

atticu wrote: »

I think that you know the answer, but for some reason are trying to claim that you don’t.
Maybe you are looking for someone to blame for how you choose to feel, maybe there is another reason, but only you can answer that.

We can take this over to the philosophy forum if you want, but if you are claiming you don't need to be considerate because it is the others person's decision to think that a person is inconsiderate, I think you are going to find a lot of people saying in the philosophy forum to move to after hours.

Tim Robbins

Podge_irl wrote: »

You're assuming the majority of people would want that outcome. It's a fairly drastic escalation from asking people to be considerate to shutting down the bars. I don't think either a majority of fans or the stadium itself are going to want that to be honest, so its a flight of fancy. I should add, it is also not remotely an act of compromise from you - its trying to get what you want by ever increasingly persuasive means.

I believe 95% of the people who are doing this would stop or do it an less annoying way if it was communicated to them. They actually don't realise. Like parents who go to matches. They shouldn't shout at kids and everyone is embarrassed to say anything to them. But if the coach ask them to stop in a polite way, they usually stop very quickly and everyone wins.

atticu

Tim Robbins wrote: »

We can take this over to the philosophy forum if you want, but if you are claiming you don't need to be considerate because it is the others person's decision to think that a person is inconsiderate, I think you are going to find a lot of people saying in the philosophy forum to move to after hours.

You need to go back and read my posts again.

Hurrache

Tim Robbins wrote: »

IThe best way I think to do that is that on the way back in after the pints, the stewards make people wait until there is a break in play before allowing people to run down to their seat. The O2 doe this for various gigs.

Completely unworkable and unenforceable, and I've never been to a gig in the O2 in which I've seen people being stopped.

Plus it's a solution looking for a problem.

theyoungchap

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I agree with that and it is important that everyone is made feel welcome. You don't have to know every law, then people like me don't feel important.

I think the vibe here is to find a compromise. The best way I think to do that is that on the way back in after the pints, the stewards make people wait until there is a break in play before allowing people to run down to their seat. The O2 doe this for various gigs. If that doesn't work, then ask people in match programs and ask the supporter clubs on how best to communicate the message. If that doesn't work the close the bar when the anthems are about to start and re-open at half time.

I have already told you the compromise Tim - buy your seat for the middle of the row, not the edge. And ideally front row so nobody in front of you getting up/down. Job done.

Hurrache

theyoungchap wrote: »

And ideally front row so nobody in front of you getting up/down. Job done.

He might have a problem with touch judges, ball boys, medics, other players, mascots and TV crews getting in the way then.

theyoungchap

Hurrache wrote: »

He might have a problem with touch judges, ball boys, medics, other players, mascots and TV crews getting in the way then.

Upper tier ONLY then

prawnsambo

Hurrache wrote: »

He might have a problem with touch judges, ball boys, medics, other players, mascots and TV crews getting in the way then.

There are front rows in every section. Loads of them. Of course they are fronted by walkways which would obviously cause a problem.

Sangre

Hurrache wrote: »

Completely unworkable and unenforceable, and I've never been to a gig in the O2 in which I've seen people being stopped.

Plus it's a solution looking for a problem.

I'm not advocating for this solution in rugby but this happens in cricket if you're sitting in the batter's eyeline and works just fine - even if it is annoying.

Tim Robbins

Hurrache wrote: »

Completely unworkable and unenforceable, and I've never been to a gig in the O2 in which I've seen people being stopped.

Plus it's a solution looking for a problem.

Works in O2 and I remember first going to matches the stewarts used to do it.

prinzeugen

Having stewards decide when people can or cannot go for a piss and a pint will never happen.

Stewards are there to watch the crowd, not the game. Also each steward would need to know a bit about rugby (which the majority dont) to know when is OK and when is not.

Also the Aviva has to be all seating for it to meet the criteria required for hosting major events.

If people going for a pint or talking during one of the "shhhh" moments upsets you, get a box on level 4 or stay at home.

Tim Robbins

prinzeugen wrote: »

Having stewards decide when people can or cannot go for a piss and a pint will never happen.

Stewards are there to watch the crowd, not the game. Also each steward would need to know a bit about rugby (which the majority dont) to know when is OK and when is not.

Also the Aviva has to be all seating for it to meet the criteria required for hosting major events.

If people going for a pint or talking during one of the "shhhh" moments upsets you, get a box on level 4 or stay at home.

I don't think it is fair to be insulting the intelligence of stewarts. They probably know a lot more than the lads going for pints blocking views when the ball is play.

prawnsambo

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I don't think it is fair to be insulting the intelligence of stewarts. They probably know a lot more than the lads going for pints blocking views when the ball is play.

Yeah. Picking on an entire clan like that is bordering on racism.

Podge_irl

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I don't think it is fair to be insulting the intelligence of stewarts. They probably know a lot more than the lads going for pints blocking views when the ball is play.

He's not insulting their intelligence. They are there to watch the crowd, not the game.

prawnsambo

Podge_irl wrote: »

He's not insulting their intelligence. They are there to watch the crowd, not the game.

Maybe they could set up a variation of the lollipop man? But with 'Stay' and 'Go' on the lollipop.

On second thoughts no. The signs would obstruct people's view...

prinzeugen

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I don't think it is fair to be insulting the intelligence of stewarts. They probably know a lot more than the lads going for pints blocking views when the ball is play.

I am one of those stewards, worked there since it opened. I would think about 80% of current stewards have little or zero interest in the game.

Stephen15

Slightly off topic question but I notice the stewards at the Aviva don't display PSA licences which I thought would be a requirement for stewards like it is for bouncers and security? Why is this, do stewards not have to have it in this country?

prawnsambo

Stephen15 wrote: »

Slightly off topic question but I notice the stewards at the Aviva don't display PSA licences which I thought would be a requirement for stewards like it is for bouncers and security? Why is this, do stewards not have to have it in this country?

I don't think stewards are security. Their function is a bit like a cinema usher.

The Lost Sheep

Stephen15 wrote: »

Slightly off topic question but I notice the stewards at the Aviva don't display PSA licences which I thought would be a requirement for stewards like it is for bouncers and security? Why is this, do stewards not have to have it in this country?

not a requirement. Plenty are volunteers still and they don't but majority in Aviva and thomond and all in rds are psa lisencees.
We as stewards are very different to bouncers.

prinzeugen

Stephen15 wrote: »

Slightly off topic question but I notice the stewards at the Aviva don't display PSA licences which I thought would be a requirement for stewards like it is for bouncers and security? Why is this, do stewards not have to have it in this country?

We dont need them as we have the Garda to assist us. I can ask a Garda to remove someone and its done.

Anyway the PSA licence does not give a person special powers.

prinzeugen

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

not a requirement. Plenty are volunteers still and they don't but majority in Aviva and thomond and all in rds are psa lisencees.
We as stewards are very different to bouncers.

A tiny amount at IRFU international games are voluntarily. Any other event is paid stadium staff or a mix of stadium/Sword/Pulse staff.

Only 15% or so of Aviva stewards and not all Sword/Pulse stewards have a PSA licence.

Legally, a steward has the same power as a bouncer and the same as a lad on the street.

joseywhales

Stewards in ice hockey will not let you back to your seat until there is a break in play.

Neil3030

joseywhales wrote: »

Stewards in ice hockey will not let you back to your seat until there is a break in play.

Yes, you can have beer, but understand that nothing comes for free.

Canadians. Just doing things better, since forever.

crisco10

joseywhales wrote: »

Stewards in ice hockey will not let you back to your seat until there is a break in play.

It's the same in Wimbledon too. You can only come in or leave when the players are sitting down ( which only happens every 2 or 3 games)