Bangladeshi Trainee Garda and His Sham Marriage

irishproduce

And there in lies the rub.
You could be disciplined or cautioned by someone who all things being equal, has no business in the Police force but for a quota or special dispensation.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

You would also have to wonder how many more unqualified Gardai are now on the streets due to a possible quota for foreign applicants?

Firstly, make sure there is such a quota.
Secondly, there are no unqualified Gardai on the street, as they have clearly finished their training, so, qualified.

Donald Trump

bigpink wrote: »

Look at Limerick it’s a joke all the Non eu people here at present

Yeah, it is a joke. And a bad one at that. Limerick that is

Apparently after witnessing devastating floods, poverty and devastation in Bangladesh, the applicant wanted to see for himself how things were in Europe


Although after an afternoon spent in Limerick he confessed to his crimes and pleaded to be sent home.

I have it on good authority he actually made up the "sham marriage" claim in order to be shipped home quicker. It was actually a legitimate marriage

Kivaro

bubblypop wrote: »

Firstly, make sure there is such a quota.
Secondly, there are no unqualified Gardai on the street, as they have clearly finished their training, so, qualified.

Ah I see. There are definitely no unqualified Gardai on the street because they finished their training.
Like there are no unqualified teachers in our schools because they finished their training.
Like there are no unqualified ........

In the real world, this is not the case.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

Ah I see. There are definitely no unqualified Gardai on the street because they finished their training.
Like there are no unqualified teachers in our schools because they finished their training.
Like there are no unqualified ........

In the real world, this is not the case.

What? Are you aware Of The training system in AGS?
How can a guard be on the street without going through templemore? I think you will find it's impossible.

Glass fused light

irishproduce wrote: »

Yes, that is a good summary of my point.
I think a Bangladeshi man working in general retail, call centre, general assembly in factories, farm labour, truck driver (and plenty of others similar jobs) should be scrutinised robustly.

None of those positions suffer from labour or skills shortages.
Therefore, if we have some chap from south east Asia, here entering that job, then that should be examined robustly.

Jaysus, nevermind trying to get into our policing service.

If they are married to Úna the teacher from Kenmare or Zahira the Doctor from Dhaka but working in St Vincents, then great, good for them, carry on and if you need help with anything further, let us know.

If they are married to Lima from Vilnius or are missing a few parts of their student visa, then they should be hauled in, scrutinised closely and the investigating party commended for their efforts.

Sorry but, scrutinised robustly on low risk jobs, hahahaha.

if I want the immigration service to scrutinise any chap from south east asia its the Doctor married to Úna the teacher from Kenmare working in St Vincents and his work mate Zahira the Doctor from Dhaka.
Sure they can chase after your man serving me coffee or even the lad driving that Artic on the road beside me.
But only after they are sure that the doctors paperwork is all in order, and that they can do what the paperwork said.

Sure chase after anyone you want but try spending taxpayers money where there is the biggest risk to public safety first. And IMO AGS members fall into the scope of that risk.

The risk was that he obtained a right of residency, proper risk assessment on the residenay basis should have produced proper processes and procedures. Being married a nice Irish girl lessens the risk of bribery, forgery of documentation, and lying under oath, it does not eliminate it.

Glass fused light

bubblypop wrote: »

What? Are you aware Of The training system in AGS?
How can a guard be on the street without going through templemore? I think you will find it's impossible.

They were the ones with a light blue shoulder patches?

Edit. Out on training days supervised by a member end edit

whomitconcerns

Would we not just be happy to get more qualified guards?? The nonsense in this thread is beyond belief..

Mrs OBumble

irishproduce wrote: »

Teaching pretty much meets your criteria.
Irish leaving cert is needed.

Except that some foreigners (a better phrase than the meaning-free non-nationals) speak better Irish than most of ye who were schooled (sic) here .

mynamejeff

Glass fused light wrote: »

They were the ones with a light blue shoulder patches?

Edit. Out on training days supervised by a member end edit

the last time that happened was circa 2008 , pre recruitment embargo.

the lads withe blue tabs had no more police powers that you do and were just observers.

training procedures changed when the stared recruiting again .

and yes im sure being non irish and speaking a couple of extra languages would be likely to get you selected with more ease .

whomitconcerns

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Would we not just be happy to get more qualified guards?? The nonsense in this thread is beyond belief..

No, they were student Gardai. Not qualified & don't exist anymore

gozunda

bubblypop wrote: »

Firstly, make sure there is such a quota.
Secondly, there are no unqualified Gardai on the street, as they have clearly finished their training, so, qualified.

Afaik there are trainee Gardai - then there are probationary Gardai - and finally fully qualified (ie non probationers) Gardai

See:
https://www.garda.ie/en/Careers/Day-in-the-life-of-a-trainee-Garda/

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Afaik there are trainee Gardai - then there are probationary Gardai - and finally fully qualified Gardai

See:
https://www.garda.ie/en/Careers/Day-in-the-life-of-a-trainee-Garda/

Probationary Gardai ate fully qualified & sworn in members of AGS. It's merely a probationary period. They are qualified.

ohnonotgmail

produce wrote: »

And there in lies the rub.
You could be disciplined or cautioned by someone who all things being equal, has no business in the Police force but for a quota or special dispensation.

what quota is this? do you have a link to information on it?

gozunda

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Except that some foreigners (a better phrase than the meaning-free non-nationals) speak better Irish than most of ye who were schooled (sic) here .

Charming...

Kivaro

I think that some people are confused by the meaning of the word "qualified", or maybe there is some deflection going on.

Anyway, back to this Bangladeshi scam artist:
He should be arrested, sentenced to a period of time in prison, and then deported.
Being asked to leave the country for this criminal activity is hardly a deterrent or suitable punishment.

gozunda

bubblypop wrote: »

Probationary Gardai ate fully qualified & sworn in members of AGS. It's merely a probationary period. They are qualified.

"Ate fully qualified" :eek:

What I meant is that those gardai undertake a probationary period under supervision for 2 years before been allowed to work on their own... so are different from fully qualified Gardai who are not probationers

AlekSmart

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what quota is this? do you have a link to information on it?

I think it was another poster who raised the possibility of a "Positive Discrimination" policy in respect of AGS recruitment...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106823770&postcount=120

The point remains valid....IF there is a Positive Discrimination policy in respect of ethnic or cultural background,then surely it should be disclosed ?

AlekSmart

Kivaro wrote: »

I think that some people are confused by the meaning of the word "qualified", or maybe there is some deflection going on.

Anyway, back to this Bangladeshi scam artist:
He should be arrested, sentenced to a period of time in prison, and then deported.
Being asked to leave the country for this criminal activity is hardly a deterrent or suitable punishment.

It could also be of relevance to the further investigations into the Sham Marriage industry in Ireland.
Being in a position to arrive in Ireland and then pay €15,000 to known criminals for the Marriage makes Mr Iqbal a significant person in Operation Vantage terms.

It appears highly unusual,in the absence of official explanation,to suggest that such a person would simply be advised to walk away from so many unanswered questions ?

ohnonotgmail

AlekSmart wrote: »

I think it was another poster who raised the possibility of a "Positive Discrimination" policy in respect of AGS recruitment...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106823770&postcount=120

The point remains valid....IF there is a Positive Discrimination policy in respect of ethnic or cultural background,then surely it should be disclosed ?

if my auntie had balls she would be my uncle.

corner of hells

So , has anyone got any pics or videos of his lesbian wives ?

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

What? Are you aware Of The training system in AGS?
How can a guard be on the street without going through templemore? I think you will find it's impossible.

So if another one of these fraudsters turns out to be a “Garda” and they’ve given evidence in any gangland convictions, do you think this would stand up in a court of law? I’d guarantee that on appeal it would be ruled inadmissible and all charged quashed. Trained or not.

irishproduce

Makes one wonder how many others are in AGS? Surely a couple at least?

gozunda

corner of hells wrote: »

So , has anyone got any pics or videos of his lesbian wives ?

Plural?

Edit:

In total there were "four people involved — two Bangladeshi men and a Lithuanian lesbian couple."

Bit more detail ...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/student-garda-accused-in-30k-marriage-scam-469846.html

Well holy god - did he ever hear the like of it?

Graces7

Even reading the title of this thread...truth definitely stranger than fiction.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

So if another one of these fraudsters turns out to be a “Garda” and they’ve given evidence in any gangland convictions, do you think this would stand up in a court of law? I’d guarantee that on appeal it would be ruled inadmissible and all charged quashed. Trained or not.

Gangland convictions?
OK, I will go with this......
I would presume that any court listening to an appeal based on the fact that the Garda was in a sham marriage in order to stay in the country, would be more interested in the evidence being correct.
A court won't just throw out convictions based on maybe, one of the Gardai being in a sham marriage.

Graces7

Wondering. I know that in the UK there are ratios in the police,whereby they have ti have a certain percentage of women and foreigners, to avoid discrimination. Is that the case here too?

Kivaro

bubblypop wrote: »

Gangland convictions?
OK, I will go with this......
I would presume that any court listening to an appeal based on the fact that the Garda was in a sham marriage in order to stay in the country, would be more interested in the evidence being correct.
A court won't just throw out convictions based on maybe, one of the Gardai being in a sham marriage.

It is truly bizarre the lengths that liberals will go to in order to defend the indefensible just because it involves migrants.

If a member of the Gardai obtained legal residence in this country by perpetrating fraud, then that Garda is corrupt. It isn't only just about the fraudster obtaining a marriage certificate illegally, it involves the subsequent lying and further fraud that was carried out in order to get into the Garda College.

Any evidence in a court case involving that corrupt Garda would be deemed suspect and a defense lawyer worth their salt would have the evidence thrown out based on the character of the corrupt Garda. All of the other cases that the corrupt Garda was involved with would also be suspect, and would cause major disruption to the legal process.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

Gangland convictions?
OK, I will go with this......
I would presume that any court listening to an appeal based on the fact that the Garda was in a sham marriage in order to stay in the country, would be more interested in the evidence being correct.
A court won't just throw out convictions based on maybe, one of the Gardai being in a sham marriage.

It would be inadmissible. Presume what you like. Evidence from a fraudster would not stand up in any court in the land.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

It would be inadmissible. Presume what you like. Evidence from a fraudster would not stand up in any court in the land.

You don't know that it would be inadmissible. A Garda in a sham marriage is not necessarily a corrupt cop. Evidence of his career & good work would be heard.
And even if his particular evidence was excluded, it doesn't necessarily have any affect on the outcome of the trial.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

You don't know that it would be inadmissible. A Garda in a sham marriage is not necessarily a corrupt cop. Evidence of his career & good work would be heard.
And even if his particular evidence was excluded, it doesn't necessarily have any affect on the outcome of the trial.

The mental gymnastics are impressive, if completely wrong.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

It is truly bizarre the lengths that liberals will go to in order to defend the indefensible just because it involves migrants.
.

I'm not sure what this is about, is liberal an insult now?
I don't think I have ever been called a liberal before!!
A sham marriage does not make a corrupt policeman

Kivaro

bubblypop wrote: »

You don't know that it would be inadmissible. A Garda in a sham marriage is not necessarily a corrupt cop. Evidence of his career & good work would be heard.
And even if his particular evidence was excluded, it doesn't necessarily have any affect on the outcome of the trial.

Oh good god.

Sorry, but you have to join the ignore list.

Glass fused light

bubblypop wrote: »

Gangland convictions?
OK, I will go with this......
I would presume that any court listening to an appeal based on the fact that the Garda was in a sham marriage in order to stay in the country, would be more interested in the evidence being correct.
A court won't just throw out convictions based on maybe, one of the Gardai being in a sham marriage.

He obtained a right of residency, by bribery, forgery of documentation, and lying under oath. Even if its a Gangland conviction and the evidence remained admissible, it has to be assessed in the light of would a reasonable member of the jury have convicted had they been aware of the character of the person collecting it. Eg How much weight would you give to the evidence of someone who admitted to prior carelessness (ie pasted copied words into the wrong file) in the performance of their duties but denied deliberate wrong doing? Whats the evidence worth if they admit to a deliberat prior act.

Do you think that if it's you who was convicted, that the minimum the State owes you is the right to a fair re-trial?

Cordell

A Garda in a sham marriage is not necessarily a corrupt cop

Sure, no indication about his character or nothing.
You know what? Hire guards straight out of Mountjoy, none of them lads are corrupt cops, and most are rough and fit, ideal for the job.

gozunda

bubblypop wrote: »

You don't know that it would be inadmissible. A Garda in a sham marriage is not necessarily a corrupt cop. Evidence of his career & good work would be heard.
And even if his particular evidence was excluded, it doesn't necessarily have any affect on the outcome of the trial.

When that persons career is based on a lie.

1. Paying an EU national to get illegally married
2. Getting awarded citizenship / residency based on said illegal marriage.
3. Taking up a career which involves upholding and applying the law of the land based on illegal citizenship / residency awarded on the basis of points no.1 & no. 2

There's more - but I really couldn't be arsed tbh ....

Glass fused light

Glass fused light wrote: »

Do you think that if it's you who was convicted, that the minimum the State owes you is the right to a fair re-trial?

Yep, he probably would get a retrial, like I said even if they did find that Gardas evidence inadmissible, the accused can still be found guilty.
Anyway, totally not important, because he was caught.
The immigration unit did their job, & the sham marriage was exposed.
Good result.

irishproduce

Kivaro wrote: »

It is truly bizarre the lengths that liberals will go to in order to defend the indefensible just because it involves migrants.

If a member of the Gardai obtained legal residence in this country by perpetrating fraud, then that Garda is corrupt. It isn't only just about the fraudster obtaining a marriage certificate illegally, it involves the subsequent lying and further fraud that was carried out in order to get into the Garda College.

Any evidence in a court case involving that corrupt Garda would be deemed suspect and a defense lawyer worth their salt would have the evidence thrown out based on the character of the corrupt Garda. All of the other cases that the corrupt Garda was involved with would also be suspect, and would cause major disruption to the legal process.

As I understand it, it is for this reason Garda checks on applicants are so detailed, going right out into cousins and uncles/ aunts married into the family. Their character must be unquestionable if they are to be used in the prosecuting of crimes as witnesses.
I am not sure if international applicants, certainly from outside EU are subject to the same checks.

irishproduce

bubblypop wrote: »

You don't know that it would be inadmissible. A Garda in a sham marriage is not necessarily a corrupt cop. Evidence of his career & good work would be heard.
And even if his particular evidence was excluded, it doesn't necessarily have any affect on the outcome of the trial.

Fair play to you Bubbly, you are if nothing else, committed to the cause.
The force is strong in this one.

mynamejeff

many many well known cases use the evidence of convicted criminals to get convictions especially in gangland cases

the fact that this chap was guilty ( alleged ) would be an issue but not the defining issue of cases

those of you blanking that fact have yer own agendas but then again dont ye always

john Gilligan convicted with a criminal as a witness

The McCarthy-Dundon gang in limerick were run through with rats Owen treacy April colins etc

sorry boys yer talking poo

John_D80

mynamejeff wrote: »

many many well known cases use the evidence of convicted criminals to get convictions especially in gangland cases

the fact that this chap was guilty ( alleged ) would be an issue but not the defining issue of cases

those of you blanking that fact have yer own agendas but then again dont ye always

john Gilligan convicted with a criminal as a witness

The McCarthy-Dundon gang in limerick were run through with rats Owen treacy April colins etc

sorry boys yer talking poo

You are not comparing like with like at all. In the examples you mentioned the criminals/persons of questionable character, are merely sources of evidence.

Garda are responsible for building criminal cases and should be above reproach.

mynamejeff

John_D80 wrote: »

You are not comparing like with like at all. In the examples you mentioned the criminals/persons of questionable character, are merely sources of evidence.

Garda are responsible for building criminal cases and should be above reproach.

Actually it is like with like ,

Same judge, same jury , same defense council, same prosecution council,

he would have had to progress a long way from student garda before he was building any kind of serous case ,

as i said before lots of people here just sprouting off about stuff they have no knowledge about ,

as usual

Cordell

Not only criminal cases, also the Garda vetting process will be perverted when the one doing the vetting is also himself a criminal.

mynamejeff

Cordell wrote: »

Not only criminal cases, also the Garda vetting process will be perverted when the one doing the vetting is also himself a criminal.

vetting is done in Thurlas by civilian civil service staff under minimal garda supervision

Cordell

And it's all good if that minimal supervision is performed by a criminal?
If find it unreal that there is even an argument for accepting criminals and fraudsters in the police force. There is none, none whatsoever.

Seriously, how do you think his marriage was brought to the attention of the immigration unit dealing with sham marriages?

John_D80

mynamejeff wrote: »

Actually it is like with like ,

Same judge, same jury , same defense council, same prosecution council,

he would have had to progress a long way from student garda before he was building any kind of serous case ,

as i said before lots of people here just sprouting off about stuff they have no knowledge about ,

as usual

It’s not at all. Bringing judges and juries into it is just a pure strawman argument.

He may not personally himself ever have been responsible for something as serious as putting together a criminal case but the point is that the gardai as an organization must be seen to be above reproach.

Comparing guards with criminals giving evidence is just stupid.

John_D80

bubblypop wrote: »

Seriously, how do you think his marriage was brought to the attention of the immigration unit dealing with sham marriages?

Enlighten us.

John_D80

John_D80 wrote: »

Enlighten us.

Really? Clearly it was flagged during vetting procedure & passed to the relevant unit for Investigation.
Job done.

Glass fused light

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, he probably would get a retrial, like I said even if they did find that Gardas evidence inadmissible, the accused can still be found guilty.

Give me a number between 1 and 100, your solicitor comes in to your jail cell, your new home for a minimum of 10 years, and said
"good news we in court tomorrow we can prove that Garda X, forged document and lying under oath, you have a (0% to 100%) chance at a new fair trial"

bubblypop wrote: »

Anyway, totally not important, because he was caught.
The immigration unit did their job, & the sham marriage was exposed.
Good result.

The taxpayer is funding the Gardai training, salary and the costs of the investigation, we pay for the infrastructure building and staff (prosecution, the judge etc ), likely the defendents cost too. We ask 12 people to do their civic duty as jurors, where they sometimes fear for their personal safety.

The reason we should demand that the Garda be of good character is that when they act on our behalf, with the full power of the State behind them, we should be able to trust that they won't abuse the trust and authority in a way that act against us.

What happen should not be dismissed lightly, it should not be obscured by repeating how an individual has to be more doggy than our home grown variety.

There were two jobs which needed to be done.
One by the immigration unit and one by the Gardai HR unit.

That he was given a right of residency indicates that the immigration unit's process failed to do the job. Its cost v benefit to be 100% accurate, and we have safety nets (including the Gardai) because we accept that failure happens but most won't re-offend.

That he was accepted into training indicates that the HR unit's process failed to do the job, or at least to do it in time to prevent his enrolment. That he eventually got caught is not a good result, he should not have gotten so far to begin with.