Bangladeshi Trainee Garda and His Sham Marriage

John_D80

bubblypop wrote: »

Really? Clearly it was flagged during vetting procedure & passed to the relevant unit for Investigation.
Job done.

Clearly not if him, his spouse and both of their extended families managed to get through the vetting process and he made it all the way to templemore.

If there was any issues flagged he would not have got through to the next stage.

Truth is you have no idea how it came to the authorities attention. Could well have been someone in Tempkemore informed on him.

I said totally not important, meaning this line of discussion is not important, as in he was a trainee student guard, so talk of court cases & 'gangland convictions' are pointless.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

Really? Clearly it was flagged during vetting procedure & passed to the relevant unit for Investigation.
Job done.

It has been stated that he was caught under the investigations of Operation Vantage, which has caught a lot of these fraudsters. There has been zero mention of it being flagged during vetting. What possible reason would the Gardai have for letting him continue his training after flagging this and ending up with egg on their face??

What colour is the sky in your world??

John_D80

bubblypop wrote: »

I said totally not important, meaning this line of discussion is not important, as in he was a trainee student guard, so talk of court cases & 'gangland convictions' are pointless.

You do realise that every guard in the force from beat cops right up to the commissioner was once a trainee right??

This discovery and any speculation on potential repercussions is far from pointless.

John_D80

John_D80 wrote: »

Clearly not if him, his spouse and both of their extended families managed to get through the vetting process and he made it all the way to templemore.

If there was any issues flagged he would not have got through to the next stage.

Truth is you have no idea how it came to the authorities attention. Could well have been someone in Tempkemore informed on him.

Truth is, you have no idea how the vetting system works in AGS, or how under resourced they are.
Do him, his family, his 'wife' or her family have any previous convictions? Any links to criminal groups?
Truth is, you have no idea. ( either do I, but he wouldn't have got through if they did)
But, if someone during the vetting, or any of the Gardai dealing with him had concerns about his marriage, then they would be passed to the unit dealing with sham marriages for Investigation.
Which is what happened. That unit investigated & he was identified.
So, like I said, job well done.

John_D80

bubblypop wrote: »

Truth is, you have no idea how the vetting system works in AGS, or how under resourced they are.
Do him, his family, his 'wife' or her family have any previous convictions? Any links to criminal groups?
Truth is, you have no idea. ( either do I, but he wouldn't have got through if they did)
But, if someone during the vetting, or any of the Gardai dealing with him had concerns about his marriage, then they would be passed to the unit dealing with sham marriages for Investigation.
Which is what happened. That unit investigated & he was identified.
So, like I said, job well done.

No it’s not what happened at all. Because of there were any flags raised during the vetting process then he would not have progressed further. Can you not understand that?

It highlights an obvious flaw and serious mismanagement in Garda vettings. He was caught by an immigration beureau investigation, NOT the vetting process.

Job well done my hole.

Oh and don’t presume to know what I do and don’t know about the vetting process.

John_D80

John_D80 wrote: »

Oh and don’t presume to know what I do and don’t know about the vetting process.

Don't presume to know what I do & don't know either....

John_D80

bubblypop wrote: »

Don't presume to know what I do & don't know either....

Well when you are blatantly and obviously wrong you’re gonna get pulled up on it.

Glass fused light

bubblypop wrote: »

I said totally not important, meaning this line of discussion is not important, as in he was a trainee student guard, so talk of court cases & 'gangland convictions' are pointless.

Give me a number between 1 and 100, your solicitor comes in to your jail cell, your new home for a minimum of 10 years, and said
"good news we in court tomorrow we can prove that Garda X, forged document and lying under oath, you have a (0% to 100%) chance at a new fair trial"

What's your number?

Glass fused light

Glass fused light wrote: »

lying under oath,

What's this about, lying under oath?
Like I said, this is a pointless discussion because the Gardai did their job & exposed a sham marriage.

John_D80

John_D80 wrote: »

Well when you are blatantly and obviously wrong you’re gonna get pulled up on it.

Well, I haven't been wrong so nothing to pull me up on.
Anyway, like I said AGS did their job.

John_D80

bubblypop wrote: »

Well, I haven't been wrong so nothing to pull me up on.
Anyway, like I said AGS did their job.

Yes, you have been.

You've claimed, at least twice that this came to light in the vetting process which it plainly didn't as is referenced in any of the articles in the media over the last few days. In actual fact he passed through all stages of the recruitment process, including the vetting.

He was caught after an investigation by the Immigration Beureau. Nothing to do with the National Vetting Beureau.

John_D80

bubblypop wrote: »

What's this about, lying under oath?
Like I said, this is a pointless discussion because the Gardai did their job & exposed a sham marriage.

You seem to be getting the Immigration Beureau and the National Vetting Beureau mixed up.

One of these did their job right yes, but one certainly did not.

irishproduce

To bring all of this back to the original point I made in OP, we know now after much discussion here that the immigration and recruitment functions within AGS are not able to do their job properly. Operation Vantage is the one that caught him.

Therefore, why did it get so far as to see the chancer in training in our state police service?
I am of the opinion that the recruitment service is instructed to be blind or positively biased toward certain circumstances.

Omackeral

irishproduce wrote: »

As I understand it, it is for this reason Garda checks on applicants are so detailed, going right out into cousins and uncles/ aunts married into the family. Their character must be unquestionable if they are to be used in the prosecuting of crimes as witnesses.
I am not sure if international applicants, certainly from outside EU are subject to the same checks.

It's true. I applied to be a Garda and a Prison Officer concurrently. As strict as the PO application was, the Garda one was even more watertight. You'd to provide contact details and references on all family members, including branching out into cousins and such. How is that even feasible for someone coming from as far away as Bangladesh I wonder?

Glass fused light

bubblypop wrote: »

What's this about, lying under oath?

Example of Immigration application form submitted by applicant, Section 9 is the relevant bit.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20EU1A.pdf/Files/Form%20EU1A.pdf

Explanation of the consequence of not signing Section 9 is explained in the explanatory leaflet Part 8 Section 9

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20EU1A%20Explanatory%20Leaflet.pdf/Files/Form%20EU1A%20Explanatory%20Leaflet.pdf


General information on court process and the use of an oath

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/witnesses/the_procedure_for_being_a_witness.html
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/witnesses/types_of_witnesses.html

bubblypop wrote: »

Like I said, this is a pointless discussion because the Gardai did their job & exposed a sham marriage.

Give me a number between 1 and 100, your solicitor comes in to your jail cell, your new home for a minimum of 10 years, and said
"good news we in court tomorrow we can prove that Garda X, forged document and lying under oath, you have a (0% to 100%) chance at a new fair trial"

What's your number?

Geuze

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/probe-into-irishbased-marriage-scam-being-used-to-obtain-eu-residency-for-illegal-immigrants-36855018.html


It appears the numbers of sham marriages has increased, now 2,100 is mentioned.

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/probe-into-irishbased-marriage-scam-being-used-to-obtain-eu-residency-for-illegal-immigrants-36855018.html


It appears the numbers of sham marriages has increased, now 2,100 is mentioned.

I always presumed the cops had let this scam reach the levels of "taking the piss completely" before they investigated.

irishproduce

I said it earlier in the thread, I would love to ask the guy we are discussing, for his views on what the opinion is of our immigration and security controls, among his Bangladeshi peers.
I cannot see that we are feared or there is genuine aversion based on our policies.
We are ridiculous in some aspects.

TheManTheMyth

Geuze wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/probe-into-irishbased-marriage-scam-being-used-to-obtain-eu-residency-for-illegal-immigrants-36855018.html


It appears the numbers of sham marriages has increased, now 2,100 is mentioned.

They then bring over their real families.


"The men then divorce their fake partners, with many applying to secure family reunification rights for relatives living outside the EU."

mynamejeff

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/businessman-and-pretend-bride-spared-jail-over-sham-marriage-36910475.html

what do you do with this lad ?

Chuck him out for his fraud or thank him for the 30 jobs his hard work are providing ?

weldoninhio

mynamejeff wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/businessman-and-pretend-bride-spared-jail-over-sham-marriage-36910475.html

what do you do with this lad ?

Chuck him out for his fraud or thank him for the 30 jobs his hard work are providing ?

He should have been escorted to the airport ffs!!

Are Am Eye

I wonder can he drive?

Arrived 2006, married 2012.

Six years on a student visa. Not bad. Must have studied some high tech stuff if hes running a few sandwich bars.

weldoninhio

Why aren’t CAB seizing all of his assets?? All earned through criminal activity. Without committing the crime he got a suspended sentence for he wouldn’t have amassed the businesses he has. Take everything and deport him. Sell on the franchises and seize any money he has in Irish banks.

Collie D

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why aren’t CAB seizing all of his assets?? All earned through criminal activity. Without committing the crime he got a suspended sentence for he wouldn’t have amassed the businesses he has. Take everything and deport him. Sell on the franchises and seize any money he has in Irish banks.

He's hardly robbing banks and importing boatloads of heroin or coke. He's obviously become a productive member of Irish society despite how he came to become part of that society.

If the state turns down his citizenship and revokes his right to reside her, fair enough. But what you're suggesting is just spiteful.

CAB has far bigger fish to fry than this eejit.

weldoninhio

Collie D wrote: »

He's hardly robbing banks and importing boatloads of heroin or coke. He's obviously become a productive member of Irish society despite how he came to become part of that society.

If the state turns down his citizenship and revokes his right to reside her, fair enough. But what you're suggesting is just spiteful.

He’s broken the law. He shouldn’t have been here, and had no legal right to be here. No wonder we are seen as such a soft touch. Grow a spine.

weldoninhio

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

CAB has far bigger fish to fry than this eejit.

Surely there’s some department that could be sweeping up all this easy, free cash??

Atlantic Dawn

Collie D wrote: »

He's hardly robbing banks and importing boatloads of heroin or coke. .

Or garlic :pac:

Collie D

weldoninhio wrote: »

He’s broken the law. He shouldn’t have been here, and had no legal right to be here. No wonder we are seen as such a soft touch. Grow a spine.

Good, non-emotive post.

irishproduce

It comes down to whether or not we want to have laws on the matter of immigration and whether we are going to enforce them.
If we are not then there is no point having them. Any defending solicitor could use residency leniancy afforded to him as a precedent for other clients.

weldoninhio

Collie D wrote: »

Good, non-emotive post.

It's completely non-emotive. The legal system should be non-emotive. Its the people saying, ah shure, didn't he do well for himself that are letting their emotions get the better of them.

He was here illegally, any money he earned while here was earned illegally, freeze his illegally gotten gains, sell the franchises and get him on the next plane home.

John_D80

The situation of the guy who was nabbed in Templmore highlighted some serious national security issues and he at the very least should be removed from police training.

This latest case is totally different though and has caused me to rethink some of my earlier thoughts on the immigration issue. He came here with an intention of working and working hard. Made a positive contribution to his community. There is a time for compassion and common sense. Both cases need to be considered separately.

And let’s be fair here. This lad in Limerick did the exact same thing Irish people were/are doing in the US, Canada, Oz and others for decades. I personally know two women who entered into sham marriages in order to obtain citizenship of another country.

Irish people have been exploiting other countries immigration laws in larger numbers and for a lot longer than its been done to us.

weldoninhio

John_D80 wrote: »

The situation of the guy who was nabbed in Templmore highlighted some serious national security issues and he at the very least should be removed from police training.

This latest case is totally different though and has caused me to rethink some of my earlier thoughts on the immigration issue. He came here with an intention of working and working hard. Made a positive contribution to his community. There is a time for compassion and common sense. Both cases need to be considered separately.

And let’s be fair here. This lad in Limerick did the exact same thing Irish people were/are doing in the US, Canada, Oz and others for decades. I personally know two women who entered into sham marriages in order to obtain citizenship of another country.

Irish people have been exploiting other countries immigration laws in larger numbers and for a lot longer than its been done to us.

So if an Irish criminal is at large in Oz, should be go easy on an Aussie criminal over here?? Ridiculous comparison. The law is the law, there's a reason for that.

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

It's completely non-emotive. The legal system should be non-emotive. Its the people saying, ah shure, didn't he do well for himself that are letting their emotions get the better of them.

He was here illegally, any money he earned while here was earned illegally, freeze his illegally gotten gains, sell the franchises and get him on the next plane home.

Yes he broke the law with his sham marriage. Yes he was here illegally. By all means punish him for that. Nothing he did after that was illegal so why should CAB seize the profits of his business?

K.Flyer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Yes he broke the law with his sham marriage. Yes he was here illegally. By all means punish him for that. Nothing he did after that was illegal so why should CAB seize the profits of his business?

If it was necessary to get married in order to set up a business, then everything he has done after getting married has been done under false pretenses. The guy started his life in our country with a mindset for illegal activity. Do we really need more of this here, we have enough problems with those that we can't deport.

weldoninhio

K.Flyer wrote: »

If it was necessary to get married in order to set up a business, then everything he has done after getting married has been done under false pretenses. The guy started his life in our country with a mindset for illegal activity. Do we really need more of this here, we have enough problems with those that we can't deport.

Exactly, every cent he made here, was made fraudulently. He should never have been here.

ohnonotgmail

K.Flyer wrote: »

If it was necessary to get married in order to set up a business, then everything he has done after getting married has been done under false pretenses. The guy started his life in our country with a mindset for illegal activity. Do we really need more of this here, we have enough problems with those that we can't deport.

I have no issue with deporting him. He shouldn't be here. Others want to confiscate all the cash he earned legally through his businesses. And it was earned legally unless somebody has information to the contrary.

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

Exactly, every cent he made here, was made fraudulently. He should never have been here.

absolute rubbish.

Kivaro

With asylum seekers (who bypassed many other countries getting to our social welfare paradise) now being allowed to work as soon as they "get" here, and with shysters/scam artists who are working here illegally with little consequence if they get caught (suspended sentences); you'd have to wonder why anyone from outside the EU would go through the bother and hassle to apply for a work permit in Ireland.

AlekSmart

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I have no issue with deporting him. He shouldn't be here. Others want to confiscate all the cash he earned legally through his businesses. And it was earned legally unless somebody has information to the contrary.

At the very least this gentleman should be detained and required to cooperate in a forensic examination of his business/s.
It is common knowledge that Business Ventures of themselves make excellent fronts for the laundering of criminal assets,hence the setting up of the CAB.

There is something a little "off" about an individual spending six years on full-time study,then having enough ready assets to set up and fund as substantial an enterprise as this.

He can,of course,consent to return to India voluntarily,with his funds remaining here whilst their legitimacy is verfied....fair and equitable surely ?

ohnonotgmail

AlekSmart wrote: »

At the very least this gentleman should be detained and required to cooperate in a forensic examination of his business/s.
It is common knowledge that Business Ventures of themselves make excellent fronts for the laundering of criminal assets,hence the setting up of the CAB.

There is something a little "off" about an individual spending six years on full-time study,then having enough ready assets to set up and fund as substantial an enterprise as this.

He can,of course,consent to return to India voluntarily,with his funds remaining here whilst their legitimacy is verfied....fair and equitable surely ?

sounds a lot like extortion to me.

John_D80

weldoninhio wrote: »

So if an Irish criminal is at large in Oz, should be go easy on an Aussie criminal over here?? Ridiculous comparison. The law is the law, there's a reason for that.

The law should and thankfully in this case does allow for circumstance. Both of these guys (trainee guard and sandwich shop operator) essentially commuted the same crime but are being treated differently.

Just because what the guy in Limerick did was illegal doesn’t nessecarily make it wrong. The local community and wider society as a whole benefited by his contributions.

Illegal immigrant or not I’d swap a thousand lazy job-fearing welfare parasites for one of him any day.

AlekSmart

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

sounds a lot like extortion to me.

OH...how ?

He returns to his homeland...a free man.

His funds are retained here in Ireland,pending a full reconciliation,which if successful,then sees his money returned to him in India.

Should it be simply wished-away that this man engaged in a deliberate and expensive subterfuge,the proceeds of which undoubtably contribute to serious criminal activity in Ireland.

If this gent is as keen as he appears to be,then he will be only too glad to get his act together surely ?

ohnonotgmail

AlekSmart wrote: »

OH...how ?

He returns to his homeland...a free man.

His funds are retained here in Ireland,pending a full reconciliation,which if successful,then sees his money returned to him in India.

Should it be simply wished-away that this man engaged in a deliberate and expensive subterfuge,the proceeds of which undoubtably contribute to serious criminal activity in Ireland.

If this gent is as keen as he appears to be,then he will be only too glad to get his act together surely ?

the guy ran sandwich shops. what serious criminal activity are you referring to?

AlekSmart

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Arrived 2006, married 2012.

Six years on a student visa. Not bad. Must have studied some high tech stuff if hes running a few sandwich bars.

Mr Pandy is now 29.
He arrrives in Ireland in 2006......12 years ago,aged 17...yes ?
He completes his studies in 2012 ?.....aged 23 and fronts up €7,000 for an EU bride..yes ?
6 years later,Mr Pandy is apparently a businessman of some magnitude,possessing significant assets,with no questioning of this account tolerated...yes ?

When one hears so much negativity these days as to the fall in Irish Educational Standards...so called Grade Inflation,it would appear that at least one Irish Educational establishment is surely punching well above it's weight ?

Kivaro

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the guy ran sandwich shops. what serious criminal activity are you referring to?

The 'guy' was in the country illegally.

And if he was a student for 6 years, where did he get the money to set up a successful chain of sandwich bars.
Being a foreign student in Ireland could be lucrative though, as he paid €7,000 immediately after his 6 years of study to the facilitator of his sham marriage.

There's something odd with the whole story .......... besides the Latvian bride and falsification of documents etc.

AlekSmart

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The guy ran Sandwich Shops. what serious criminal activity are you referring to?

If he paid €7,000 to somebody to arrange a marriage,it can safely be taken that this money is being used for criminal purposes.

This is no longer the Ireland of Father McDyer or the Knock Marriage Bureau.

This is a full blown multi-million € criminal enterprise,which is far from the blamless enterprise which some would suggest.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/probe-into-irishbased-marriage-scam-being-used-to-obtain-eu-residency-for-illegal-immigrants-36855018.html

Operation Vantage has identified 16 Irish-based ringleaders involved in the racket which is estimated to have generated more than €20m for the gangs: each marriage cost between €15,000 and €20,000.

The women, however, were typically paid up to a paltry €3,000 for their services, often arriving in the country on the day of the ceremony and leaving immediately afterwards.

Of more interest in this case,particularly given Limerick connection is the following ......

In one of the raids it was discovered that a small convenience store in Limerick was used to obtain residency rights for 135 Afghans based on fake marriages and bogus documents. All of the permissions to stay in the country were subsequently revoked.

When officers investigating a marriage between a Pakistani national and a Latvian woman visited another business address in Limerick last December, they found evidence of a further 11 fake marriages involving individuals using the same address.

Possibly a complete coincidence,but to my mind,deserving of the fullest investigation,including the retention of monies and assests,subject to verification.

weldoninhio

John_D80 wrote: »

The law should and thankfully in this case does allow for circumstance. Both of these guys (trainee guard and sandwich shop operator) essentially commuted the same crime but are being treated differently.

Just because what the guy in Limerick did was illegal doesn’t nessecarily make it wrong. The local community and wider society as a whole benefited by his contributions.

Illegal immigrant or not I’d swap a thousand lazy job-fearing welfare parasites for one of him any day.

Unless you were a Limerick local who was beaten to the purchase of the franchises.