City just crazy

benjamin d

McGiver wrote: »

Not entirely true. Delay happens also by - drivers handing over tickets, drivers handling slow leap cards, drivers generally playing a cashier, buses lacking second door for exit. There is a LOT of time wasted with all this.

That's all built into normal timetables

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

Not entirely true. Delay happens also by - drivers handing over tickets, drivers handling slow leap cards, drivers generally playing a cashier, buses lacking second door for exit. There is a LOT of time wasted with all this.

Leap cards have certainly slowed down loading: the majority of cash transactions are actually very fast but on buses that mainly have workers Leap now is widely used. I'm not even sure that a right sife validator would help because a lot seem to have weekly or monthly tickets.

The lack of a second door is a big issue too.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

McGiver wrote: »

Not entirely true. Delay happens also by - drivers handing over tickets, drivers handling slow leap cards, drivers generally playing a cashier, buses lacking second door for exit. There is a LOT of time wasted with all this.

Leap cards have certainly slowed down loading: the majority of cash transactions are actually very fast but on buses that mainly have workers Leap now is widely used. I'm not even sure that a right sife validator would help because a lot seem to have weekly or monthly tickets.

The lack of a second door is a big issue too.

Leap cards slow things down? Sorry but I couldn’t disagree more with that. I rarely use the bus but when I do I always just cannot understand why people pay more to use cash rather than have a leap and it’s so so slow compared to a leap card. No one has the change ready and are fumbling standing beside the driver, it’s slow giving change, they nearly always walk away without ithe ticket and have to go back etc etc.

I agree that the leap card should just be a tap and go not the delayed way it is (for pay as you go, it appears instant for weekly/monthly tickets) but it’s still far far faster on average than using cash imo.

McGiver

Cash is a problem and safety issue. Drivers should drive not collect fare. Maybe it's faster than rubbish Leap validation but its still not fast enough. Cash fare is suitable for rural buses or long distance couches but not high volume urban buses where every second counts. Go and see dozens of other cities in Europe.

Either do not validate anything and employ people to randomly check buses for fare and fine those who can't show it (this is used in Europe a lot). Or at least put some sort of a quick validator outside the drivers place and let the machine validate not driver trying to select correct button to press causing delays (I think this is used in Dublin).

McGiver

benjamin d wrote:

That's all built into normal timetables

That's not the point. The point is that the time lost can be greatly or completely eliminated.

McGiver

Duncan Most Chrome wrote:

Leap cards slow things down? Sorry but I couldn’t disagree more with that. I rarely use the bus but when I do I always just cannot understand why people pay more to use cash rather than have a leap and it’s so so slow compared to a leap card. No one has the change ready and are fumbling standing beside the driver, it’s slow giving change, they nearly always walk away without ithe ticket and have to go back etc etc.

OK so you rarely use bus but don't agree with observation I made while using bus for 4 years

It depends on the driver, some are more skillful some less so. It seems to me that the machine they use isn't really smart. I can observe closely next time. AFAIK they need to press buttons on their machine several times, so the option to use validate leap is in some kind of a submenu. Lot of faffing around for many drivers. Also the time needed to validate monthly leap and normal leap differs for some reason.

People with no change are in reality very rare, at least on the bus routes I have been using for years. Even with proper change cash still takes time, compared to a quick RFID validator. It's just a wrong concept for driver to collect cash and print "tickets". It's a village bus concept unsuitable for city public transport. Also printing one-off tickets is a waste and not environment friendly.

McGiver

I was listening to the radio yesterday morning and allegedly the following changes are being made. Don't know when they are effective.

409 - interval down from 12 to 10 minutes
404 - interval down from 60 to 30 minutes
401 & 403 - are merged into single route - interval 20 minutes

This is in line with intel I've got from one of my contacts who is a civil engineer and was involved with the City Council somehow. Route redesign allegedly coming, supposedly % of population reaching a bus stop in 10 minutes will double (to 90%).

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

OK so you rarely use bus but don't agree with observation I made while using bus for 4 years 

It depends on the driver, some are more skillful some less so. It seems to me that the machine they use isn't really smart. I can observe closely next time. AFAIK they need to press buttons on their machine several times, so the option to use validate leap is in some kind of a submenu. Lot of faffing around for many drivers. Also the time needed to validate monthly leap and normal leap differs for some reason.

People with no change are in reality very rare, at least on the bus routes I have been using for years. Even with proper change cash still takes time, compared to a quick RFID validator. It's just a wrong concept for driver to collect cash and print "tickets". It's a village bus concept unsuitable for city public transport. Also printing one-off tickets is a waste and not environment friendly.

Who are you saying rarely uses the bus???

Validating a leap with a monthly ticket takes zero button presses. But the validation is slower than paying by cash was - and than the old paper based monthly tickets

zulutango

McGiver wrote:

You can't even compare Galway with Cork. If you compare apples with apples then you can see the gaps. So let's take Limerick for example, that's a realistic benchmark - anyone seen their bus lanes, and cycle path network (yes, it's actually a network).

Cycle network in Limerick?? Where can I find it?

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Who are you saying rarely uses the bus???

I've corrected it. Mobile app misbehaved and didn't include the quote on which I commented.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Validating a leap with a monthly ticket takes zero button presses. But the validation is slower than paying by cash was - and than the old paper based monthly tickets

I've seen drivers struggling with monthly leap, pressing some buttons. And pay as you go leap needs some buttons pressed on the drivers thingy for sure.

You seem to be somehow focused on paper tickets and cash. Both are quite obsolete concepts which have been or are being eliminated in Europe city public transport systems. Everything has been moving to digital/electronic fare such as chip cards, texts, apps for a while.

Fitz*

One thing that happens a lot too, is certain individuals who are of the older generations, that insist on standing up at the drivers window and taking to them.

Slows down the bus a lot as the bus can't drive at any real pace on open road. I got on a bus today but as a man was standing there, and older, I thought he was getting off. I gave him a bit of time to get off but he wouldnt move and then eventually directed me onto the bus. This happened at every stop that I was on from the Tuam Road -> Eyre Square. Added at least 30 seconds to every stop, let alone the slower driving speed.

One person does it every morning on the 405 route.

John_Rambo

zulutango wrote: »

Galway has probably embraced the model more than the other irish cities though, for one reason or another. I think it's greatly due to the fact that a huge chunk of the daytime population (including those who make the major infrastructural decisions) of the city commutes in from the surrounding hinterland, often from one-off homes, and they are utterly car dependent. Bus lanes and cycle lanes and light rail will never make sense to these people, and they have pushed for more car infrastructure over the decades. The problem is that car infrastructure is of very limited use in moving people in urban areas and has incredibly damaging consequences too.

This post hits the nail on the head a million times over. It say's it all in one sentence. Desperately bad anti-social and anti-community planning has a fantastically detrimental effect on the city. Not only on the hinterland villages and towns.

And we wonder why rural post offices, garda stations, butchers, greengrocers and town industries are failing.

bobbyss

McGiver wrote:

Not entirely true. Delay happens also by - drivers handing over tickets, drivers handling slow leap cards, drivers generally playing a cashier, buses lacking second door for exit. There is a LOT of time wasted with all this.

I agree with all of this. Waiting for the Rahoon bus in eyre square firstly a mass of people exit all through the one door. Bus incredibly stuffy. Then on we go with the first passenger asking how much the fare is and then looking to find a purse. This business of the driver giving change reminds me of the days you bought a threepenny ice cream and the shopkeeper would cut it for you. It's a thing of yesteryear. I feel the leap cards are somewhat slower than in dublin. I am not sure if passengers can scan cards themselves in Galway and I don't know why. But I do know it wastes more time. It's frustrating to look at the real time thing (almost never correct) to see your next bus is in 40 minutes time. That's not a proper service. Ellington Street blocked up is a pain in the asre.
I'd take busses over cars any day if all I have to do is stroll up to my bus stop and wait no more than ten minutes to board. I'd settle for that.

djPSB

What are the public doing to influence change and to get the powers that be to do something about the problem.

Why isn't there public uproar.

youngrun

John_Rambo wrote: »

This post hits the nail on the head a million times over. It say's it all in one sentence. Desperately bad anti-social and anti-community planning has a fantastically detrimental effect on the city. Not only on the hinterland villages and towns.

And we wonder why rural post offices, garda stations, butchers, greengrocers and town industries are failing.

Would agree .
Part of reason is Cost of housing - Solution building more lower cost housing ie apartments /blocks in city whether Council or private on city lands eg Sandy Road, Ardaun etc, Supply up prices down or level off, Less transport needed

Park and ride is surely a solution to commuting from satellite towns and villages Eg Galway Airport, sports car parks/unused lots on 5/6 major routes. N59 , N84, N17, Oranmore , Airport road etc. Find 3000 spaces and a bus route. This has to be done in my view. Not everyone needs a car in the day time . But people are Addicted to car use as with phone.

More trains commuting in from Athenry, Oranmore. Why would you drive if a train is there. One would wish for a commuter line along the other major routes but...........

I wonder why such straightforward action plans cannot be put forward by City, County Councils, Housing Dept. NTA and politicians along with major industry

flazio

djPSB wrote: »

What are the public doing to influence change and to get the powers that be to do something about the problem.

Why isn't there public uproar.

Because, we use the quieter route of making our feelings known at the ballot box.
A person is smart. People are dumb panicking animals.

Fitz*

djPSB wrote: »

What are the public doing to influence change and to get the powers that be to do something about the problem.

Why isn't there public uproar.

I've made a point of using the complaint form on BE site for every single service that has been late / not shown up / driver refused to allow passengers to enter the bus.

They don't do anything about it.

The Regional Manager who replies once every 3 months just waffles on and really says nothing.

Fitz*

youngrun wrote: »

More trains commuting in from Athenry, Oranmore. Why would you drive if a train is there. One would wish for a commuter line along the other major routes but...........

Oranmore train station is already a few minutes drive outside of the town. If people are going to get in their car and drive that far, when they are probably going to go to Ballybrit / Parkmore anyways, they are going to drive the extra 10 minutes to work. As opposed to getting a train into Eyre Square (10 mins) and then trying to get a bus out to Parkmore again (35 mins). People have actually saved 40 mins by driving from Oranmore to Parkmore.

I do understand your point though regarding needing more commuter trains and I agree with it. Simply have to reduce all these single occupant vehicles all driving the same route.

I see that they are merging the 401 & 403 bus routes to try increase the number of passengers going from Salthill -> Parkmore. While I do think this is a good idea, how many people will ditch their car and use it? not enough to reduce traffic on this route IMO, as the 403 is very unreliable and often gets stuck out in Parkmore. No 403 buses leave Eyre Square -> Parkmore after 6.15 and before 8.15 in the evenings as the bus is either stuck outside in Parkmore or no drivers are on shift at this time (an actual reason I was given by BE). Add to this, the same bus being stuck in Salthill traffic now too, potential to make it worse. If this was a light rail route with frequent times (every 5-10 mins at peak time), then maybe people would be more inclined to ditch the car as a clean, quicker, frequent option was available.

It doesn't even have to be the biggest of routes. Salthill -> Parkmore Ind Est via the docks & Lough Italia & Ballybrit Ind Est and back again. Would enough people use this to ditch the car and use this reliable public transport option that would depart/arrive on time? Possibly.

zulutango

You would think that with it being so bad for motorists to get into the city that they would switch to busses and bikes. But the busses are slower than the cars (remarkably!) and you'd be taking your life in your hands to cycle. It's such an easy solution. Build lots of dedicated bus and bike infrastructure. But what does Galway City Council do, it prioritises a new road for cars. What a ****ing joke!

McGiver

youngrun wrote:

More trains commuting in from Athenry, Oranmore. Why would you drive if a train is there. One would wish for a commuter line along the other major routes but...........

Athenry Galway train is perfect. But then what? How do you get to business parks in the east?
That's why it's important to create office spaces in town, not in remote suburbs. Bonham Quay is a first. Hope there will be more.

McGiver

flazio wrote:

Because, we use the quieter route of making our feelings known at the ballot box. A person is smart. People are dumb panicking animals.

OK and are happy with the result? Doesn't seem to be working well. The city is seriously lagging behind Northern, Western and even Central Europe in infrastructure, and even behind Limerick and Cork.

McGiver

FitzShane wrote:

I've made a point of using the complaint form on BE site for every single service that has been late / not shown up / driver refused to allow passengers to enter the bus.

Well done.

FitzShane wrote:

It doesn't even have to be the biggest of routes. Salthill -> Parkmore Ind Est via the docks & Lough Italia & Ballybrit Ind Est and back again. Would enough people use this to ditch the car and use this reliable public transport option that would depart/arrive on time? Possibly.

If you want to build just single rail route then it would have to cover as much as possible i.e. Knocknacarra, Salthill, town, business parks, Doughiska, Roscam and maybe even Oranmore.

Geuze

McGiver wrote: »

Athenry Galway train is perfect. But then what? How do you get to business parks in the east?
That's why it's important to create office spaces in town, not in remote suburbs. Bonham Quay is a first. Hope there will be more.

What about a station in Roscam? With buses to/from business parks?

Also doubling the line from GY to Athenry.

And integrating the fares, i.e. BE city bus with IE trains on one tax saver ticket.

djPSB

FitzShane wrote: »

I've made a point of using the complaint form on BE site for every single service that has been late / not shown up / driver refused to allow passengers to enter the bus.

They don't do anything about it.

The Regional Manager who replies once every 3 months just waffles on and really says nothing.

People effected need to start making some noise. Only then will there be change. When the people start to become a pain in the arse and making life tough for the top brass.

First step would be setting up a Facebook page to gather like minded people who experience these issues daily.

With the volume of people effected, there should be a following of 10k plus.

Once you have the medium to communicate with the following through Facebook, people can plan the next steps of the process from there to get the message across to the required public bodies.

If the public create enough noise, there will be change.

youngrun

Geuze wrote: »

What about a station in Roscam? With buses to/from business parks?

Also doubling the line from GY to Athenry.

And integrating the fares, i.e. BE city bus with IE trains on one tax saver ticket.

Might work
Or a spur line to Parkmore
Would be a start

Oranmore /Athenry train to Galway works fine for city centre workplace , a number of colleagues use this instead of cars now, , 15/20 minute commute/train and walk versus a 1 hour plus drive in the evening . Lots work in city too, but only one part of the issues!

zell12

FitzShane wrote: »

I've made a point of using the complaint form on BE site for every single service that has been late / not shown up / driver refused to allow passengers to enter the bus.
They don't do anything about it.
The Regional Manager who replies once every 3 months just waffles on and really says nothing.

You need to speak to a bus driver, when off-duty, to discover what they think the problems are before you become a public transport activist.
You'll find
1. Volume of private cars
1a. Stupid blockages at junctions (cars stopped in yellow box)
1b. Stupid blockages on roads (illicit parking)
1c. Abuse of bus lanes by private cars
2. Residents complaining about too many buses on the road
and on and on

flazio

youngrun wrote: »

Might work
Or a spur line to Parkmore
Would be a start

Oranmore /Athenry train to Galway works fine for city centre workplace , a number of colleagues use this instead of cars now, , 15/20 minute commute/train and walk versus a 1 hour plus drive in the evening . Lots work in city too, but only one part of the issues!

Irish Rail have never built a new line from scratch in their history. All the infrastructure is inherited from the regional railways of the 19th century.

bobbyss

FitzShane wrote:

Oranmore train station is already a few minutes drive outside of the town. If people are going to get in their car and drive that far, when they are probably going to go to Ballybrit / Parkmore anyways, they are going to drive the extra 10 minutes to work. As opposed to getting a train into Eyre Square (10 mins) and then trying to get a bus out to Parkmore again (35 mins). People have actually saved 40 mins by driving from Oranmore to Parkmore.

It's a pity that station isn't close to the village itself. Same as stations in Loughrea and Ballinasloe. I went on a day trip to Athlone recently, a place I haven't seen for ages, only because the station is central. Would have liked to have gone to the above towns also but too far to get to.
I suppose the reasons the station in oranmore is outside village is mainly money.
Is there no dedicated, reliable shuttle there?

zulutango

bobbyss wrote: »

It's a pity that station isn't close to the village itself. Same as stations in Loughrea and Ballinasloe. I went on a day trip to Athlone recently, a place I haven't seen for ages, only because the station is central. Would have liked to have gone to the above towns also but too far to get to.
I suppose the reasons the station in oranmore is outside village is mainly money.
Is there no dedicated, reliable shuttle there?

Money generally isn't the issue. It's usually priorities. It isn't true that we can't afford railway infrastructure. We just prefer to spend money on roads due to a misconceived notion that it's a better investment.

zell12

This is an example of Eglinton. The 405 driver was beeping its horn for the black car to move, due to the traffic coming the other way, and no space. All the cars on right are illegally parked. Every single day