City just crazy

McGiver

what_traffic wrote: »

This is NOT true. Why do you keep peddling this and what laws are you referring too?
Yes the NTA licence routes and operations but whose road network are the public transport operators using (excluding Irishrail)? Who has responsibility for it? The only section of Road that City Bus use that is not a City Council Road on TII responsible property is the 404 when its on the N59 in Newcastle or the 405, 403/409 when those buses pass through the junctions on the N6

Only 9% of Galway City's Current bus Network has dedicated/priority.

Agree re KnocknaCarra - over 50% of workers in Parkmore do not come from the City at all; County Car Traffic in the main.

My take on this (I may be wrong) - NTA licences it, Council designs & builds, BE delivers it.

bobbyss

xckjoo wrote:

Don't fully agree with you here. If it happens every September they could put on extra drivers/buses every September and reduce again when demand drops off. If it was an irregular occurrence then they'd have an excuse for not being able to accommodate it.

But that would mean a bit of planning ahead?

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

Parts of town should definitely be pedestrianised. This is what other similarly sized cities did and it helped a lot, alogn with other measures (bus lanes, park & rides, cycle paths). The EU did a study on that, I think it was Oxford, Gent and others.

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/pubs/pdf/streets_people.pdf

The suggestion was that they should have private cars removed. I'd go further and remove all parking except for loading zones that turn into clearways at peak hours.

That's a whole lot different to fully pedestrianised.

xckjoo wrote: »

???

Public Transport is covered under the Galway Transport Strategy. My job isn't legally mandate either but that doesn't mean it's not my job.

Public transport is one factor that the council have to consider in planning the citty's infrastructure. But they don't operate it, control it, fund it or license it. Arguably this disconnect between services and infrastructure is a big reason for the poor provision. The NTA are not, AFAIK, required to even consult anyone in deciding what public transport services to license - though back in 2012 they did choose to consult the city council, and modified their original proposal based on the feedback.


If you work for a government agency, you are given money to do certain things. Doing other things instead is misappropriation of public funds. If there are laws saying that doing those things is the responsibility of another agency (see below), then .... I don't know the fancy name for it in this country. But your agency should get into trouble, and have it's budget cut next year (you're obviously getting too much if you can do more then was agreed).

This is one of the big differences between working in the public and private sectors: private sector companies and even non-profit agencies are allowed do do anything that's legal. Government bodies are far more restricted.

Maisie Harsh Strand wrote: »

Well that's good news for the 404 and 409 customers but I dread to think what effect it's going to have on the 401 :eek:. It's unreliable enough as it is without adding a cross-Galway journey .

The way it is in the daytime cannot get any worse - and having an extra bus in the network (remember it's every 20 minutes at night too) should help. As will removing the dog-leg to stop at Mervue shops.

what_traffic wrote: »

This is NOT true. Why do you keep peddling this and what laws are you referring too?
Yes the NTA licence routes and operations but whose road network are the public transport operators using (excluding Irishrail)? Who has responsibility for it? The only section of Road that City Bus use that is not a City Council Road on TII responsible property is the 404 when its on the N59 in Newcastle or the 405, 403/409 when those buses pass through the junctions on the N6

Only 9% of Galway City's Current bus Network has dedicated/priority.

Agree re KnocknaCarra - over 50% of workers in Parkmore do not come from the City at all; County Car Traffic in the main.

The NTA have provided a nice summary of the relevant laws here: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/about-us/our-role-in-public-transport-board/

fyi, The other section of road used by public transport that GCC don't seem to own is Dock Road (recall the difference in parking meters there).

I've been pondering Parkmore, and the way that some BE services heading northwest now come and go via the Parkmore Road. Am wondering if it shouldn't become a hub for PT services from the north-west: stick a bus-lane down the Parkmore Road, and insist that BE, Burkes, Bus4U, etc all go that way. At the same time, encourage the multi-nationals that if they must hire blow-ins, at least hire from north Galway / Mayo / Roscommon etc, so make public transport more viable.

(Part of our problem is that the CountyCo keep building new buildings just outside the city boundary, and leaving the city to deal with the traffic problems. )

Ashleigh1986

Been told by a councillor whose in our family that a bus lane is going to be put in going from park more down park more hill turning left and all the way in the tuam road to the traffic lights at monaghans .

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote:

At the same time, encourage the multi-nationals that if they must hire blow-ins, at least hire from north Galway / Mayo / Roscommon etc, so make public transport more viable.

What is the alleged benefit of this? I think I don't follow. Multinationals can hire who they are want, where they want from.

McGiver

Ashleigh1986 wrote:

Been told by a councillor whose in our family that a bus lane is going to be put in going from park more down park more hill turning left and all the way in the tuam road to the traffic lights at monaghans .

That could working but it's a bit detour. No route going there at the moment.

Bobeagleburger

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Been told by a councillor whose in our family that a bus lane is going to be put in going from park more down park more hill turning left and all the way in the tuam road to the traffic lights at monaghans .

That's a start.

ben.schlomo

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Been told by a councillor whose in our family that a bus lane is going to be put in going from park more down park more hill turning left and all the way in the tuam road to the traffic lights at monaghans .

That's a start.

Start of what exactly though. That's not a bus route so how's it going to happen?

Fitz*

Should a bus lane not be on a road that is not already a bus route?

Extending it to include the Tuam Road is probably a stretch too I would imagine, but, for me personally, would be brilliant.

Mrs OBumble

FitzShane wrote: »

Should a bus lane not be on a road that is not already a bus route?

Extending it to include the Tuam Road is probably a stretch too I would imagine, but, for me personally, would be brilliant.

Not necessarily: it could be that there's an intention to change the bus route as soon as the bus-lane is in place.


AFAIK the proposal is to extend the Claregalway bus-lane into town, to serve buses from Tuam etc. It's a big change. I'm not sure if having it go up Parkmore hill is actually part of the plan or not. But the more I think about it, it makes sense to develop Parkmore as a transport hub.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Public transport is one factor that the council have to consider in planning the citty's infrastructure. But they don't operate it, control it, fund it or license it. Arguably this disconnect between services and infrastructure is a big reason for the poor provision. The NTA are not, AFAIK, required to even consult anyone in deciding what public transport services to license - though back in 2012 they did choose to consult the city council, and modified their original proposal based on the feedback.


If you work for a government agency, you are given money to do certain things. Doing other things instead is misappropriation of public funds. If there are laws saying that doing those things is the responsibility of another agency (see below), then .... I don't know the fancy name for it in this country. But your agency should get into trouble, and have it's budget cut next year (you're obviously getting too much if you can do more then was agreed).

This is one of the big differences between working in the public and private sectors: private sector companies and even non-profit agencies are allowed do do anything that's legal. Government bodies are far more restricted.

If you look at the Public Transport Regulation Act of 2009 in your link you'll see it riddled with requirements to work with local authorities and their local development plans. Granted most of them are worded as permissive instead of mandated, but doing otherwise would leave them wide-open to litigation.

I think I see what you're getting at, but the council has a Director of Services for Transportation, Recreation and Amenity, Corporate Services and I believe it's very much within his remit to work with the the NTA to provide a transportation strategy for Galway; including public transportation. He might not be out marking out bus lanes, but he's supposed to be involved in the planning and have some input in the operations.

zulutango

Perhaps it's for coaches and taxis?

youngrun

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Public transport is NOT the city council's responsibility under the laws that apply in Ireland.

There is already a subsidised bus from Knocknacarra to the city and another from the city to Parkmore. I can't see the NTA being willing to license, far less subsidise, a competing route that would make either of the existing ones less viable.

Has anyone got statistics on how many people from Knocknacarra actually work in Parkmore?

Any time I've worked there most of my colleagues lived east, north or south of the vity, not west ( small sample, for sure).

Surely practical solutions need to come into play here

I know several people including some in my house who travel Parkmore to Knocknacarra direct daily and would love a bus option rather than the misery of sitting an hour plus in a car queue
Theres always a huge flow of cars across the QCB . Is it 30k+ vehicles per day on QCB crossing city??Why not a bus route direct across town and reduce car numbers

Who can do this ?

whineflu

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There is already a subsidised bus from Knocknacarra to the city and another from the city to Parkmore. ...
Has anyone got statistics on how many people from Knocknacarra actually work in Parkmore?
Any time I've worked there most of my colleagues lived east, north or south of the vity.

what_traffic wrote: »

Agree re KnocknaCarra - over 50% of workers in Parkmore do not come from the City at all; County Car Traffic in the main.

Knocknacarra is a medium density residential suburb and people who live there and in other similarly dense suburbs and dormitory towns should have their transport needs prioritised over rural commuters. If it takes an individual the same time to get to work from the west of the city to Parkmore as it does to commute from (say) Belclare then why wouldn't I build a "one off" house in the country? We need to use incentivisation in the short term to shape people's habits. The long term may well never happen.

xckjoo

whineflu wrote: »

Knocknacarra is a medium density residential suburb and people who live there and in other similarly dense suburbs and dormitory towns should have their transport needs prioritised over rural commuters. If it takes an individual the same time to get to work from the west of the city to Parkmore as it does to commute from (say) Belclare then why wouldn't I build a "one off" house in the country? We need to use incentivisation in the short term to shape people's habits. The long term may well never happen.

That's a good point. I know of several people who have or are in the process of buying houses as far away as Ennis as they work in the east of the city so it's still a faster commute.

zulutango

xckjoo wrote:

That's a good point. I know of several people who have or are in the process of buying houses as far away as Ennis as they work in the east of the city so it's still a faster commute.

Proof that big fancy motorways don't solve problems and probably make matters worse.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

fyi, The other section of road used by public transport that GCC don't seem to own is Dock Road (recall the difference in parking meters there).

True - but if Docks don't get Developed, strong chance it wont as money is been pored into Foynes (and Road Network around) it and if its finally downgraded to Tier 3 Port (practically is already) then Galway City Council will take over responsibility. For a couple of years 2009-2012 Galway Harbour was making more from Car Parking than actual Port activity.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

That's a good point. I know of several people who have or are in the process of buying houses as far away as Ennis as they work in the east of the city so it's still a faster commute.

Not sure how long that will last. Work in Parkmore. Currently Commute times to Parkmore from KnocknaCarra via Car is often quicker than from Oranmore in the morning time when I ask colleagues who travel from either location. Evenings is the opposite.

what_traffic

whineflu wrote: »

Knocknacarra is a medium density residential suburb and people who live there and in other similarly dense suburbs and dormitory towns should have their transport needs prioritised over rural commuters.

Agree 100%

xckjoo

what_traffic wrote: »

Not sure how long that will last. Work in Parkmore. Currently Commute times to Parkmore from KnocknaCarra via Car is often quicker than from Oranmore in the morning time when I ask colleagues who travel from either location. Evenings is the opposite.

Funny, I'm told the opposite, but I'm not quite in Parkmore. I know people that specifically moved to Oranmore and beyond for that commute.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

Funny, I'm told the opposite, but I'm not quite in Parkmore. I know people that specifically moved to Oranmore and beyond for that commute.

Car Commute in the evening might be quicker, but mornings M6 can be backed up as far as the Oranmore exit and the Galway Clinic.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Not sure how long that will last. Work in Parkmore. Currently Commute times to Parkmore from KnocknaCarra via Car is often quicker than from Oranmore in the morning time when I ask colleagues who travel from either location. Evenings is the opposite.

To qualify I usually cycle the route. (Way quicker on the evening commute)
Time it takes me to cycle from Rahoon to Parkmore via the City Centre, can take same length of time for my colleagues to drive from Oranmore to Parkmore on the morning commute; about 35 MINS. At least with the bike I can leave any time of day, car - people have to be watching the clock to avoid CAR peak times.

zulutango

And you get fit while cycling. The downside is that you're more likely to be killed.

whineflu

zulutango wrote: »

And you get fit while cycling. The downside is that you're more likely to be killed.

When was the last cycling fatality in Galway?

zulutango

whineflu wrote: »

When was the last cycling fatality in Galway?

I don't know, but I would say it is indisputable that you are more vulnerable as a cyclist than as a motorist in city traffic.

xckjoo

zulutango wrote: »

And you get fit while cycling. The downside is that you're more likely to be killed.

Statistically it's a much safe mode of transport due to a number of reasons. Lets not go off on a tangent, but you're definitely not more likely to be killed.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote:

That's a whole lot different to fully pedestrianised. The suggestion was that they should have private cars removed. I'd go further and remove all parking except for loading zones that turn into clearways at peak hours.

By pedestrianised I meant exactly that. Only delivery vehicles at given times clearways etc. Have you been to Oxford? Good example of that in practice

McGiver

youngrun wrote:

I know several people including some in my house who travel Parkmore to Knocknacarra direct daily and would love a bus option rather than the misery of sitting an hour plus in a car queue Theres always a huge flow of cars across the QCB . Is it 30k+ vehicles per day on QCB crossing city??Why not a bus route direct across town and reduce car numbers

Needs two bridges over the Corrib... One isn't enough

McGiver

ben.schlomo wrote:

Start of what exactly though. That's not a bus route so how's it going to happen?

Maybe a loop on the 409?

Roscam-Doughiska-Parkmore-Parkmore Hill-Tuam Road-Ballybrit and then either to Dublin Road or through Ballybrit back to Doughiska and Roscam.

The latter would make more of sense as traffic at the Ballybrit is less heavy. Also city buses should be able to use dual carriageway, that's normal in other countries.

McGiver

whineflu wrote:

Knocknacarra is a medium density residential suburb and people who live there and in other similarly dense suburbs and dormitory towns should have their transport needs prioritised over rural commuters. If it takes an individual the same time to get to work from the west of the city to Parkmore as it does to commute from (say) Belclare then why wouldn't I build a "one off" house in the country? We need to use incentivisation in the short term to shape people's habits. The long term may well never happen.

Welcome to a proper suburban sprawl with no associated infrastructure planning.