City just crazy

Bredabe

Laviski wrote: »

bendy buses not suit able for galway considering the street sizes and layout

example: corner at Brown Thomas being the most obvious, existing buses have issues here all the time. Imagine two bendy buses hitting corner same time in heavy traffic.

I've seen bendies work around worse corners, granted its probably too much to ask that gbe make sure they get the bendy buses engineered for those kinds of obstacles tho.

If they don't get some kind of compromise with bus types, it will negatively impact on the bus usage and ppl will still be forced to take cars into the city.

xckjoo

Bredabe wrote: »

I've seen bendies work around worse corners, granted its probably too much to ask that gbe make sure they get the bendy buses engineered for those kinds of obstacles tho.

If they don't get some kind of compromise with bus types, it will negatively impact on the bus usage outside of rush hours and ppl will be forced to take cars into the city.

I think it would fit around the bends, but not in traffic. I'd say they'd be tough to maneuver through peak traffic. They'd probably be okay if there was more bus lanes.

You're right though. I remember being on a bus once and a woman with a double wide buggy got on to find another buggy already on the bus. They nearly had to get back off.

Mrs OBumble

zulutango wrote: »

Private cars have no place in city centres. If other cities around Europe can do it and still thrive then we can too.

And that would be a great big F U to inner city residents! I don't need or want a car often - but there are times (eg moving house, going on holiday, having elderly people visit) when I do. Totally unreasonable to ban this.

Mrs OBumble

Bredabe wrote: »

I see this all over, bus co's put double-deckers on all routes, mindless that double deckers don't suit older ppl, those with lots of or heavy shopping, ppl with mobility problems and or buggies.

I see bendy buses as a better option.

Eh? DD's have as much ground floor space as single deckers.

The old, disabled, laden and embuggied just stay downstairs. The loud youth go upstairs and then we oldies don't have to endure their noise. Everyone wins.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And that would be a great big F U to inner city residents! I don't need or want a car often - but there are times (eg moving house, going on holiday, having elderly people visit) when I do. Totally unreasonable to ban this.

You keep saying this but as I said before, it's easy to include allowances for residents, the disabled and the elderly.

It could actually improve things for the latter two as they've no option but to drive/be driven, but they currently have to share the space with all those able bodied people wasting away behind a steering wheel.

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

You keep saying this but as I said before, it's easy to include allowances for residents, the disabled and the elderly..

The poster said ban. I assume that's what they meant. A ban is a ban. A partial "making provision" ban isn't a ban.

The b word isn't helpful.

zell12

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The poster said ban. I assume that's what they meant. A ban is a ban. A partial "making provision" ban isn't a ban.
The b word isn't helpful.

Ah c'mon. Cars are banned from footpaths, yet they are still there

The Lost Sheep

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And that would be a great big F U to inner city residents! I don't need or want a car often - but there are times (eg moving house, going on holiday, having elderly people visit) when I do. Totally unreasonable to ban this.

No it wouldnt. In many cities cars are not allowed in certain districts. People just make allowances and make extra time for carrying out jobs etc

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The poster said ban. I assume that's what they meant. A ban is a ban. A partial "making provision" ban isn't a ban.

The b word isn't helpful.

A ban doesnt have to be outright. There always can be allowances made.

McGiver

Bredabe wrote:

I see this all over, bus co's put double-deckers on all routes, mindless that double deckers don't suit older ppl, those with lots of or heavy shopping, ppl with mobility problems and or buggies.

Double decker is an obsolete British concept. Not user friendly, for old and disabled, children, strollers, takes more time load and unload.

A move into completely wrong direction to the deploy them. BE are 50 years behind Europe!

We need longer buses, 1 entry door, 1 to 2 exit doors, low level, accessible to old, disabled, children, strollers, with self-validation and if possible electric, PNG/LPG or at least hybrid.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote:

The old, disabled, laden and embuggied just stay downstairs. The loud youth go upstairs and then we oldies don't have to endure their noise. Everyone wins.

Please visit Europe, that's all what I can say. Paper tickets and double decker are stone age stuff.

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

Yes that's what I meant. I don't count publication transport as car traffic. Pedestrianised = public transport, pedestrians, bicycles.

In a Galway City context that has not been the case. The pedestrianised streets are not designed for public transport or cycling. Shop St pedestrianisation had a knock on effect for cycling from East to West. Have to go via the Docks (multilane road) or via Nuns Island. Long detours.

McGiver

what_traffic wrote:

In a Galway City context that has not been the case. The pedestrianised streets are not designed for public transport or cycling. Shop St pedestrianisation had a knock on effect for cycling from East to West. Have to go via the Docks (multilane road) or via Nuns Island. Long detours.

Was it possible to go through shop street on the bike before?

zell12

McGiver wrote: »

Was it possible to go through shop street on the bike before?

Yes. It was a one way street and a car park

Discodog

Allowing P&R buses into the heart of Oxford is one reason it works. You can literally hop on or off right outside M&S etc.

Whereisgalway

Lane cutting along the new cinema/Boohan/eastern tandoori is shocking. A few simple bollards would sort it out easily

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

Please visit Europe, that's all what I can say. Paper tickets and double decker are stone age stuff.

"Europe" would that include places like:

London, where paper Travelcard tickets are still an option? (ref).

Eastern Switzerland where double-decker buses started being delivered last year? (ref).

Sweden where 25 DD's - complete with wheelchair ramps - have recently been delivered (ref).

The Netherlands and Belguim where a company is starting to make DD buses and some were introduced into service in 2017 (ref).

... and there's more that I could get from Google, but you get the drift.

Wayy further afield, I know that at least two cities in New Zealand have recently introduced them, too.

what_traffic wrote: »

In a Galway City context that has not been the case. The pedestrianised streets are not designed for public transport or cycling. Shop St pedestrianisation had a knock on effect for cycling from East to West. Have to go via the Docks (multilane road) or via Nuns Island. Long detours.

Language matters. Words like "pedestrianised" and "ban" have specific meanings, not just in a Galway City context, but worldwide. You cannot have a pedestrianised area that still has vehicles driving thru it all the time, or a ban that "makes allowances". In both these cases, you've actually got something else.

"Pedestrianised" means "devoted to pedestrians. There is no grade-separation, and the only wheely-things that are allowed are ones that move at pedestrian-speed: baby-buggies and wheelchairs. In many places pedestrian areas have timed delivery hours, where commercial vehicles can get access too, and in those hours the pedestrianised areas become ...

... shared spaces. In these, there's still no grade separation and vehicles (sometimes restricted categories of them) and pedestrians use the same area. Our only example of this here is the south-west corner of Eyre Square, where vehicles have all-day access to Ball-Alley Lane. Personally I don't like this approach: buses have to travel super-slowly, because pedestrians are not encouraged to take any responsibility, so wander all over the place. The bus may as well have been held up by private cars as wandering people.

Other option for freeing up movement on streets include banning all private vehicles (including cars, taxis and bicycles), banning private cars, removing on-street parking, active policing of existing parking restrictions. Personally i always prefer the least-restrictive option - because everything has unintended consequences and these are often negative.

Bumble, can you post up what your solution would be to improve the movement of people situation in Galway city given that its population is set to increase by 50% over the next 20-30 years

I'm asking because I honestly can't tell what you are proposing or what you would be happy with based on your posts in this thread except that you don't like any proposal so far for a variety of reasons.

note, I'm not having a go at you, I'm honestly curious as to what you see the solution being and if I've missed something where you've proposed specifics, mea culpa

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Language matters. Words like "pedestrianised" and "ban" have specific meanings, not just in a Galway City context, but worldwide. You cannot have a pedestrianised area that still has vehicles driving thru it all the time, or a ban that "makes allowances". In both these cases, you've actually got something else.

"Pedestrianised" means "devoted to pedestrians. There is no grade-separation, and the only wheely-things that are allowed are ones that move at pedestrian-speed: baby-buggies and wheelchairs. In many places pedestrian areas have timed delivery hours, where commercial vehicles can get access too, and in those hours the pedestrianised areas become ...

... shared spaces. In these, there's still no grade separation and vehicles (sometimes restricted categories of them) and pedestrians use the same area. Our only example of this here is the south-west corner of Eyre Square, where vehicles have all-day access to Ball-Alley Lane. Personally I don't like this approach: buses have to travel super-slowly, because pedestrians are not encouraged to take any responsibility, so wander all over the place. The bus may as well have been held up by private cars as wandering people.

Other option for freeing up movement on streets include banning all private vehicles (including cars, taxis and bicycles), banning private cars, removing on-street parking, active policing of existing parking restrictions. Personally i always prefer the least-restrictive option - because everything has unintended consequences and these are often negative.

Your being a bit facetious here with the language thing. We all say Shop Street is pedestrianised and not "pedestrianised for the majority of the day, with the exception of morning times when it's a Shared Space for deliveries". Language usage is important, but we all use shorthand/colloquialisms/whatever when we talk; particularly in informal situations.

Personally disagree with the shared space thing. Better to have buses and people moving slower but continuously than having them sitting static in traffic. Like the tortoise and the hare

ClaptonBay

absolute manic getting into the city today from headford road...commute was extended an extras half hr this morning just by traffic. Quincentennial has been unusually busy the last week ot two going westside direction in the mornings. cant remember it being this bad last Sept/Oct time...

Fitz*

ClaptonBay wrote: »

absolute manic getting into the city today from headford road...commute was extended an extras half hr this morning just by traffic. Quincentennial has been unusually busy the last week ot two going westside direction in the mornings. cant remember it being this bad last Sept/Oct time...

I've noticed the traffic to be abnormally bad consistently the last couple of weeks too. Like Novena traffic bad.

I'm purely speculating here, but I have a feeling that 3rd level students and the lack of accommodation could be a factor here. From what I am hearing, students are willing to take 'any room at all' all over the city just to have somewhere to stay. They could be travelling in different directions across the city as they have to take whatever accommodation they can get.

what_traffic

FitzShane wrote: »

I'm purely speculating here, but I have a feeling that 3rd level students and the lack of accommodation could be a factor here. From what I am hearing, students are willing to take 'any room at all' all over the city just to have somewhere to stay. They could be travelling in different directions across the city as they have to take whatever accommodation they can get.

It is not speculation, its a big issue. Alot of students are not living in the City at all and are driving in from the "rural" hinterland.

zell12

What_Traffic

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Personally i always prefer the least-restrictive option - because everything has unintended consequences and these are often negative.

What does this mean in Galway City context then?

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

"Europe" would that include places like:

London, where paper Travelcard tickets are still an option? (ref).

Eastern Switzerland where double-decker buses started being delivered last year? (ref).

Sweden where 25 DD's - complete with wheelchair ramps - have recently been delivered (ref).

The Netherlands and Belguim where a company is starting to make DD buses and some were introduced into service in 2017 (ref).

Sorry but this is a selective, biased bullsh*t. I can give you ten times more examples on the contrary, but I won't waste time, because I've seen them with my eyes. How many countries and cities in Europe have you visited? I don't think you did your research properly.

Double-decker buses for city public transport networks are almost exclusively linked to Britain, and hence to Ireland as well. You will not see a single double-decker anywhere in France, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Czechia, Poland in context of city bus network, just to name a few countries. Double-deckers are used only for inter-city (i.e. couches) in Europe and that's exactly what the Dutch, Swedish and Swiss articles talk about, these are for village and/or inter-city routes not city network buses. And there is a reason for it.

Defending environmental unfriendly and wasteful idea of printing tickets which are thrown away in two seconds after being printed makes no sense. Also, I maintain that it's a stone age technology which has been being replaced in European cities with smart and electronic solutions for a while.

If you look at a rather large sample of European cities (north, south, west and central) it will confirm what I said. Selective examples of course won't

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Language matters. Words like "pedestrianised" and "ban" have specific meanings, not just in a Galway City context, but worldwide. You cannot have a pedestrianised area that still has vehicles driving thru it all the time, or a ban that "makes allowances". In both these cases, you've actually got something else.

Your quoting the wrong quote.

schemingbohemia

McGiver wrote: »

Sorry but this is a selective, biased bullsh*t. I can give you ten times more examples on the contrary, but I won't waste time, because I've seen them with my eyes. How many countries and cities in Europe have you visited? I don't think you did your research properly.

Double-decker buses for city public transport networks are almost exclusively linked to Britain, and hence to Ireland as well. You will not see a single double-decker anywhere in France, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Czechia, Poland in context of city bus network, just to name a few countries. Double-deckers are used only for inter-city (i.e. couches) in Europe and that's exactly what the Dutch, Swedish and Swiss articles talk about, these are for village and/or inter-city routes not city network buses. And there is a reason for it.

Defending environmental unfriendly and wasteful idea of printing tickets which are thrown away in two seconds after being printed makes no sense. Also, I maintain that it's a stone age technology which has been being replaced in European cities with smart and electronic solutions for a while.

If you look at a rather large sample of European cities (north, south, west and central) it will confirm what I said. Selective examples of course won't

Plenty of double-deckers in Berlin for city bus journeys.

McGiver

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Plenty of double-deckers in Berlin for city bus journeys.

They would be a minority. Low level are the most prevalent by a huge margin. Another example? Because I can give you a LONG list of cities that don't have them

cooperguy

McGiver wrote: »

Defending environmental unfriendly and wasteful idea of printing tickets which are thrown away in two seconds after being printed makes no sense. Also, I maintain that it's a stone age technology which has been being replaced in European cities with smart and electronic solutions for a while.

If you look at a rather large sample of European cities (north, south, west and central) it will confirm what I said. Selective examples of course won't

Isnt that the plan for here too? Isnt it significantly cheaper to pay by leap card? They are trying to phase out the cash/ticket option

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

Bumble, can you post up what your solution would be to improve the movement of people situation in Galway city given that its population is set to increase by 50% over the next 20-30 years

I'm asking because I honestly can't tell what you are proposing or what you would be happy with based on your posts in this thread except that you don't like any proposal so far for a variety of reasons.

Firstly, amalgamate the city and county councils. The city has had to put up with far too many dodgy planning decisions - eg Parkmore - where the county dumps a large facility just outside the boundary which creates a traffic nightmare inside the city. (This is first because some of my other plans require county co-operation.)

Now, on to demand-management. (It's like other environmental initiates ... reduce, reuse, recycle ... and the greatest of these is reduce.)

We know that school holidays have the largest impact on traffic - so this where the biggest gains can be made. Create school zones (based on public transport corridors and safe walking routes), and give every child the right to attend their in-zone school(s). Provide free public transport for in-zone kids attending their own school (including facilitated "walking-buses", cycling-groups, and real buses for longer journeys). Kids are welcome to attend out-of-zone schools (least restrictive option) - but they don't get free transport.

Introduce a progressive payroll tax, based on the distance between an employee's home and their regular place of work: the further away they live, the higher the tax. Except that it goes to zero if the employee has and uses a TaxSaver ticket.

Decline all planning applications from rural areas, unless they're accompanied by a solid business case showing that the working-age adults who are to be accommodated there can and will be supported by economic activity on the land. Make such activity a condition that's attached to the title (however that's done legally). [Because - we need to stop growth in the number of people who have no choices but to use a car.]

Now some specific tactics:

Change the plan for Ardaun: make the first phase in the block of land immediately behind Oranmore railway station, and have the train as the major public-transport provision here. Make the block of land that the Galway Clinic is in Phase 2. Upgrade the existing and make at least one additional bridge over the dual carriageways to provide non-car access.

Remove all parking from Eglington Street, except for areas that can be used 7pm - 7am by delivery vehicles, residents and guests. (Least restrictive option to let peak time buses flow. If the gains aren't enough, then limit individual vehicle access at peak hours. But don't limit it at off peak hours - that's just going to annoy people unnecessarily and make journeys longer. )

Build a second bridge over the Corrib. The road network is too fragile without it.

Build park-and-ride hubs at Oranmore railway station, Parkmore. somewhere a good distance out the Headford Rd and somewhere Moycullenish (I don't know either direction well enough to suggest sites.) Figure out where people coming from these areas are actually going to and have buses going there - integrated into the standard city-bus system. (Make the buses viable by having them enable lots of possible journeys - not just one restricted route.)

Pilot an orbital bus-route between Salthill and Newcastle. (I know there's demand for that one, it's asked about most years.) Extend it further (eg Barna to Liosbaun / Ballybrit and maybe even Parkmore) based on analysing employer payroll address data. Give employees the opportunity to add key extra data to this - eg "Knocknacarra to Parkmore via a childminder in Renmore" - there will always be some journeys that are only really car-viable.


Investigate some more through roads between Collge Rd and Bohermore. If these are possible, look at a one-way-with-bus-lane system on these roads.





There ya go. Very little I haven't hinted at before. (Except Ardaun ... the rail-link only hit me today when I looked at a map and realise there's already an overbridge in place, so that bit's not land-locked by dual-carriageway.)

Ashleigh1986

Mrs OBUMBLE .... All great suggestions .
But galway also must put at the top of its priority a cctv operated traffic light system between 7am to 10am and 4pm to 7pm