Start-up Advice

NoQuarter

Hi all
I'm kicking the tires on starting a company in the next year or so. It's a food tech business and without giving away too much, basically customers must be able to order food through their browser, an app and in store through a tablet.

Unfortunately the problem is that I have no tech experience and so will need to (a) find a tech co-founder or (b) outsource the initial development to perhaps get a prototype built to bring to investors.

I'm looking for general advice, really in relation to route (a) or (b).

For (a) - is it incredibly difficult to find a tech co-founder? I'm from a different legal background so have no tech contacts. I live abroad which is an added difficulty.

For (b) - is it advisable to outsource the initial prototype now just so I have a product that I can show to investors? How does that work if I end up with an investment and can then bring in a hire to keep developing the product? Do they just develop on top of the prototype or start again? Do I need to be careful to get the prototype written in a specific language?

Finally, what exactly do I need to get my product? The product has got to be super user friendly and visual so do I need a web designer, software developer and someone on UI/UX? Or is there a jack of all trades out there?

Sorry about the ramblings but this is the very early days and I'm a bit lost on the product development side.

Thanks

14ned

NoQuarter wrote: »

For (a) - is it incredibly difficult to find a tech co-founder? I'm from a different legal background so have no tech contacts. I live abroad which is an added difficulty.

Find them is not hard. It's more that it's incredibly difficult to persuade a tech person to co-found with you. After all, they could be pocketing 500k/year taking punts on writing cryptocurrency code for less risk and effort, so why should they bother with you?

NoQuarter wrote: »

For (b) - is it advisable to outsource the initial prototype now just so I have a product that I can show to investors? How does that work if I end up with an investment and can then bring in a hire to keep developing the product? Do they just develop on top of the prototype or start again? Do I need to be careful to get the prototype written in a specific language?

I would be surprised if investors would invest without proof that the technology stuff won't be a showstopper. So either the technology stuff is fairly irrelevant and highly replaceable for low cost or disruption, or you need to present proof that you have it covered.

Some of the barriers to entry into various forms of automation are lack of quality software implementation. High quality software is extremely expensive to create and maintain, most startups must make do with low quality software and hope to ramp up revenues quickly enough that they can rewrite the software to cope before everything collapses.

Hence most startups need to think in terms of fast revenue ramp ups. As in, doubling or trebling users per year, every year, sustained, without the software stack collapsing and ruining everything. This stuff is hard, and risky. Hence the appeal of less risk, more money with cryptocurrency punts etc.

Good luck with your startup!

Niall

John_Mc

There are loads of similar questions on here asking the same thing so I suggest you do a search on this forum.

The thing about a software product is that it needs to be fully built by a software developer before it can be sold and any return made. Pretty much the same as building a house.

A lot of people with a great idea, and many with a not so great idea, come on here thinking that you do a 50/50 split in equity where the techie builds the software and you have the idea.

That's a huge leap of faith that no developer with any experience will take on. It's not a good deal and the risk of owning 50% of nothing after putting in serious work is extremely high.

My advice to you is get some market research and get funded, and then hire a software developer to build it and you maintain equity.

NoQuarter

Thanks guys and understood. I'd be taking a huge punt myself leaving a well paid job and potentially getting nothing, but that's the risk I suppose.
The software in question probably could be replicated easy enough, but the particular idea I have requires a restaurant behind it to show the software working so at least that is one barrier to people trying to compete. The other positive about needing a restaurant behind it is that is a revenue stream in itself which would (hopefully) fund the staff operating it and the developer behind the scenes.
Given my scenario - what would your advice be in terms of next move? Yes I just have an idea and yes I'll need a developer to take a punt and believe in the idea as much as I do which may well be incredibly hard but that wouldn't be enough to pub me off.

John_Mc

Get a proof of concept of the application so that you can demo it and get investment and buy in from the restaurants.

You can buy the source code of clones of applications out there. E.g Twitter, Tinder etc so you might be able to find one of those and set about modifying it for your concept. However, beware of the quality.

Best off only using as a starting point and once you're completely satisfied that you have a business opportunity and plan to get to market, then build it from scratch.

goldenhoarde

Generate some story boards/ user stories to show the app in action

For a customer, admin and any other user type

It will help you see the idea and see how it would flow

Also good for pitches

Plus search the stores web to make sure that someone you are pitching to doesn't say isn't that the same as X app?

USP is very important

NoQuarter

Thanks guys, that's really helpful and also along the same lines of what I was thinking myself which is reassuring.

One last question on the tech side:
I can probably draw up some terrible storyboards myself but if I wanted to get myself a prototype, what professional help will I need exactly?
To reiterate, I'll need a website, phone app and an app for an in-restaurant tablet that takes an order from the customers input and delivers it to the restaurant. The customer's experience on the app and website is really important so I will need great visuals and ease of use.
So who do I need and in what order? Do I ask a website builder or general software developer to help? Should I be asking for someone with a particular language? And then afterward do I try get someone with UX/UI experience? Or do I get all the above together and have them all work together at the same time?

Thanks
P.s - needless to say I'm leaving out the USP in my basic description above.

John_Mc

NoQuarter wrote: »

Thanks guys, that's really helpful and also along the same lines of what I was thinking myself which is reassuring.

One last question on the tech side:
I can probably draw up some terrible storyboards myself but if I wanted to get myself a prototype, what professional help will I need exactly?
To reiterate, I'll need a website, phone app and an app for an in-restaurant tablet that takes an order from the customers input and delivers it to the restaurant. The customer's experience on the app and website is really important so I will need great visuals and ease of use.
So who do I need and in what order? Do I ask a website builder or general software developer to help? Should I be asking for someone with a particular language? And then afterward do I try get someone with UX/UI experience? Or do I get all the above together and have them all work together at the same time?

Thanks
P.s - needless to say I'm leaving out the USP in my basic description above.

For a prototype you really only need to demonstrate the important functionality and USP(s). You can fill in the blanks during the demos you're giving.

It would obviously look better if you had a branded look and feel but to do that you need to hire a designer to come up with logo & colour scheme and then design the screens. Without fairly substantial funding I wouldn't bother with this.

So the first step for you is to get the prototype developed. To do that you need a developer and the first thing they'll ask for are the requirements. This will determine the price they give and the contract you both sign.

You can do this yourself by building up a backlog of user stories describing the functionality that will comprise the prototype. Do some research on how you write a user story as it's important to get it right. If you miss something important, that can impact on the effort required and the developer can quite rightly refuse to do it without additional money.

For the prototype, I would focus on what is important. You may not need the website and back end admin side of things to demonstrate the concept and can substantially reduce the effort and cost by hard coding or "stubbing" the API's.

Another thing you might consider is using Invisition and/or Balsamiq.

yop

Been there as both the app creator and then as the developer for someone with an application.
Both were laden with issues.

My own was developed by myself, but even though the product was 100% unique and I was accepted on an innovation program, Enterprise Ireland would only get involved if I had sales of 10k euro. EI are a joke to be honest. They wont risk anything.
In the end I couldn't raise the required money to get the app to the final stage and onto the networks.

2nd time I worked with a "friend" to develop an app, put a lot of life and 15k into it, but my own fault, I didn't get a proper contract and was shafted in the end when I had finished the application.

Balsamiq is perfect as mentioned for wire frames and POC.

Best of luck with it all

John_Mc

yop wrote: »

2nd time I worked with a "friend" to develop an app, put a lot of life and 15k into it, but my own fault, I didn't get a proper contract and was shafted in the end when I had finished the application.

I'm hoping it didn't turn out to be a success...

yop

John_Mc wrote: »

I'm hoping it didn't turn out to be a success...

Yup it did sir. Went through the courts and cost me another 20k but all I had was words and promises. A very costly mistake on my part to trust a friend.

Company has turned 5m since I was relieved now 4 years ago.

John_Mc

yop wrote: »

Yup it did sir. Went through the courts and cost me another 20k but all I had was words and promises. A very costly mistake on my part to trust a friend.

Company has turned 5m since I was relieved now 4 years ago.

Wow that's a bitter pill to have to swallow. Sorry to hear that

yop

John_Mc wrote: »

Wow that's a bitter pill to have to swallow. Sorry to hear that

A life lesson. Had a breakdown from it, but that was 100% my own fault.

Warning to others, get a contract in place. Whether it be a friend, family or foe.

Raging_Ninja

When it comes to money, nobody is a friend.

John_Mc

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

When it comes to money, nobody is a friend.

Wouldn't say that nobody is a friend when it comes to money. Some people are so greedy it takes over everything though.

Raging_Ninja

John_Mc wrote: »

Wouldn't say that nobody is a friend when it comes to money. Some people are so greedy it takes over everything though.

Maybe, but by the time you figure out who you can't really trust it's usually too late.

NoQuarter

John_Mc wrote: »

NoQuarter wrote: »

Thanks guys, that's really helpful and also along the same lines of what I was thinking myself which is reassuring.

One last question on the tech side:
I can probably draw up some terrible storyboards myself but if I wanted to get myself a prototype, what professional help will I need exactly?
To reiterate, I'll need a website, phone app and an app for an in-restaurant tablet that takes an order from the customers input and delivers it to the restaurant. The customer's experience on the app and website is really important so I will need great visuals and ease of use.
So who do I need and in what order? Do I ask a website builder or general software developer to help? Should I be asking for someone with a particular language? And then afterward do I try get someone with UX/UI experience? Or do I get all the above together and have them all work together at the same time?

Thanks
P.s - needless to say I'm leaving out the USP in my basic description above.

For a prototype you really only need to demonstrate the important functionality and USP(s). You can fill in the blanks during the demos you're giving.

It would obviously look better if you had a branded look and feel but to do that you need to hire a designer to come up with logo & colour scheme and then design the screens. Without fairly substantial funding I wouldn't bother with this.

So the first step for you is to get the prototype developed. To do that you need a developer and the first thing they'll ask for are the requirements. This will determine the price they give and the contract you both sign.

You can do this yourself by building up a backlog of user stories describing the functionality that will comprise the prototype. Do some research on how you write  a user story as it's important to get it right. If you miss something important, that can impact on the effort required and the developer can quite rightly refuse to do it without additional money.

For the prototype, I would focus on what is important. You may not need the website and back end admin side of things to demonstrate the concept and can substantially reduce the effort and cost by hard coding or "stubbing" the API's.

Another thing you might consider is using Invisition and/or Balsamiq.

Thanks, this is great advice.

You're right, I can show the concept easily without the back end admin or even a website. So in that case, am I initially just looking for an app developer? The app would have to work on all phones so presumably I need to find a developer who can work with all phone OS? Is there anything else I need to consider in terms of getting a prototype up?
1. Create a storyboard/user stories which walk the developer through the concept so they can create an app to show the concept.
2. Hire a developer and get the prototype built.
Is that about the jist of it?

Blazedup

This could be of some use to you.

The present invention relates to the field of table-side ordering system via a dedicated application running on cross-platform smart devices whereby customers of eateries to communicate and interact directly with an eateries online eatery management systems and staff, and vice versa. The present invention allows the Diner to securely synch their smart device to the Eateries Eatery Management System in order to view the Eateries menu; place orders for food and/or drinks directly to the kitchen/bar via their smart device without the need for a server to physically be present or take the order; call a server via smart device if tableside service, if required; allow diners to settle their bill via their smart device on completion of the meal. The eateries will be able to make recommendations on food/drinks based on previous visits as well as aggregated data. The Eatery Management System will interact with servers/eatery staff through the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or EMS to alert servers if a diner request service or if the kitchen/bar has completed an order that is ready for table delivery; the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or the EMS to alert servers if a diner has requested table-side service. The advantages of the invention are that it allows the eatery generate detailed statistics regarding diners habits; optimise the day-to-day running of the eatery and reduce costs by applying detailed analytics and statistics gathered from the invention; better engagement with customers as servers will be freed up to build a more personalized rapport with diners.

S2015/0023 S86626 Table-side ordering system

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/list/PTResultList.aspx

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/HttpHandler/Handler.ashx?HandlerType=PDF&DocumentType=PT&DocumentId=26563446

NoQuarter

Blazedup wrote: »

This could be of some use to you.

The present invention relates to the field of table-side ordering system via a dedicated application running on cross-platform smart devices whereby customers of eateries to communicate and interact directly with an eateries online eatery management systems and staff, and vice versa. The present invention allows the Diner to securely synch their smart device to the Eateries Eatery Management System in order to view the Eateries menu; place orders for food and/or drinks directly to the kitchen/bar via their smart device without the need for a server to physically be present or take the order; call a server via smart device if tableside service, if required; allow diners to settle their bill via their smart device on completion of the meal. The eateries will be able to make recommendations on food/drinks based on previous visits as well as aggregated data. The Eatery Management System will interact with servers/eatery staff through the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or EMS to alert servers if a diner request service or if the kitchen/bar has completed an order that is ready for table delivery; the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or the EMS to alert servers if a diner has requested table-side service. The advantages of the invention are that it allows the eatery generate detailed statistics regarding diners habits; optimise the day-to-day running of the eatery and reduce costs by applying detailed analytics and statistics gathered from the invention; better engagement with customers as servers will be freed up to build a more personalized rapport with diners.

S2015/0023 S86626 Table-side ordering system

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/list/PTResultList.aspx

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/HttpHandler/Handler.ashx?HandlerType=PDF&DocumentType=PT&DocumentId=26563446

The framework is somewhat similar to what I have in mind but the execution is different and this also misses my USP. But if I could borrow their code I could start there...

Raging_Ninja

Blazedup wrote: »

This could be of some use to you.

The present invention relates to the field of table-side ordering system via a dedicated application running on cross-platform smart devices whereby customers of eateries to communicate and interact directly with an eateries online eatery management systems and staff, and vice versa. The present invention allows the Diner to securely synch their smart device to the Eateries Eatery Management System in order to view the Eateries menu; place orders for food and/or drinks directly to the kitchen/bar via their smart device without the need for a server to physically be present or take the order; call a server via smart device if tableside service, if required; allow diners to settle their bill via their smart device on completion of the meal. The eateries will be able to make recommendations on food/drinks based on previous visits as well as aggregated data. The Eatery Management System will interact with servers/eatery staff through the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or EMS to alert servers if a diner request service or if the kitchen/bar has completed an order that is ready for table delivery; the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or the EMS to alert servers if a diner has requested table-side service. The advantages of the invention are that it allows the eatery generate detailed statistics regarding diners habits; optimise the day-to-day running of the eatery and reduce costs by applying detailed analytics and statistics gathered from the invention; better engagement with customers as servers will be freed up to build a more personalized rapport with diners.

S2015/0023 S86626 Table-side ordering system

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/list/PTResultList.aspx

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/HttpHandler/Handler.ashx?HandlerType=PDF&DocumentType=PT&DocumentId=26563446

How in the fúck did that get a patent? It's a waiter, but on a computer? The US Supreme Court has been throwing this nonsense out on the regular these days.

NoQuarter

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Blazedup wrote: »

This could be of some use to you.

The present invention relates to the field of table-side ordering system via a dedicated application running on cross-platform smart devices whereby customers of eateries to communicate and interact directly with an eateries online eatery management systems and staff, and vice versa. The present invention allows the Diner to securely synch their smart device to the Eateries Eatery Management System in order to view the Eateries menu; place orders for food and/or drinks directly to the kitchen/bar via their smart device without the need for a server to physically be present or take the order; call a server via smart device if tableside service, if required; allow diners to settle their bill via their smart device on completion of the meal. The eateries will be able to make recommendations on food/drinks based on previous visits as well as aggregated data. The Eatery Management System will interact with servers/eatery staff through the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or EMS to alert servers if a diner request service or if the kitchen/bar has completed an order that is ready for table delivery; the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or the EMS to alert servers if a diner has requested table-side service. The advantages of the invention are that it allows the eatery generate detailed statistics regarding diners habits; optimise the day-to-day running of the eatery and reduce costs by applying detailed analytics and statistics gathered from the invention; better engagement with customers as servers will be freed up to build a more personalized rapport with diners.

S2015/0023 S86626 Table-side ordering system

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/list/PTResultList.aspx

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/HttpHandler/Handler.ashx?HandlerType=PDF&DocumentType=PT&DocumentId=26563446

How in the fúck did that get a patent? It's a waiter, but on a computer? The US Supreme Court has been throwing this nonsense out on the regular these days.

I found the intro to the patent to be baffling too, completely the opposite to what you would expect from a legal document. It was more akin to a leaving cert English essay.

14ned

yop wrote: »

A life lesson. Had a breakdown from it, but that was 100% my own fault.

Warning to others, get a contract in place. Whether it be a friend, family or foe.

I too am sorry to hear about this. It's no fun to experience your world being shafted. I send my commiserations.

I would say though that a written contract is not necessarily useful. It comes down to their ability to outlast you in court proceedings. You might win, but after legal fees, what's the difference apart from justice?

(Don't get me wrong, in the past I've gone through year long legal proceedings to win, but with no cash benefit due to legal fees, and for me personally the feeling of justice made it worth it. But in raw cost benefit terms, I was being irrational, there is no business sense to pursue those cases, just a personal motivation of there being right in the world at the end of a dispute)

This is why I feel bad for those coming onto this forum with various get rich quick schemes and those who engage with such people. Been there, done that, would not be in a rush to do it again.

Niall

14ned

Blazedup wrote: »

This could be of some use to you.

The present invention relates to the field of table-side ordering system via a dedicated application running on cross-platform smart devices whereby customers of eateries to communicate and interact directly with an eateries online eatery management systems and staff, and vice versa. The present invention allows the Diner to securely synch their smart device to the Eateries Eatery Management System in order to view the Eateries menu; place orders for food and/or drinks directly to the kitchen/bar via their smart device without the need for a server to physically be present or take the order; call a server via smart device if tableside service, if required; allow diners to settle their bill via their smart device on completion of the meal. The eateries will be able to make recommendations on food/drinks based on previous visits as well as aggregated data. The Eatery Management System will interact with servers/eatery staff through the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or EMS to alert servers if a diner request service or if the kitchen/bar has completed an order that is ready for table delivery; the use of smart devices e.g. smart watches or the EMS to alert servers if a diner has requested table-side service. The advantages of the invention are that it allows the eatery generate detailed statistics regarding diners habits; optimise the day-to-day running of the eatery and reduce costs by applying detailed analytics and statistics gathered from the invention; better engagement with customers as servers will be freed up to build a more personalized rapport with diners.

S2015/0023 S86626 Table-side ordering system

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/list/PTResultList.aspx

https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/HttpHandler/Handler.ashx?HandlerType=PDF&DocumentType=PT&DocumentId=26563446

Almost certainly unenforceable as a patent, due to being a patent on a business process which is possible in the US, but nowhere else. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_method_patent

That said, they mention a Technical Process for carrying out some of the scheme, and so this patent would have to be ruled upon in court under EU law. But me personally, I would very much doubt that the patent would be ruled valid considering the lack of non-obviousness in the patent.

Niall